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Triband antenna


 

Hi, new user so thanks for your patience.

Calibrated and confirmed appropriate procedure per reference videos.
Did a wide sweep, and then resonant sweeps for two different triband antennas and found: good VSWR for two bands (~1.2:1 , high VSWR (¡À5:1) for other two bands, both antennas on different bands (one was high on 75cm, the other 220(?)). So two different bands had one high SWR, and two low SWR readings on _different bands_. (Comet vs. Fong)

Would the reason be calibration, normal, or user error? Thanks!


 

Here is a quick check - put the 50 ohm load that you used for calibration and run the same scan as you did for the tri-band antenna. I have had several dual band and tri-band antennas over the years and have generally found the dual band will have acceptable VSWR on both bands, but the tri-bands will generally be ok on 2m/440 and high on 220 or ok on 2m/220 but high on 440. I suspect that for VHF/UHF tri-band antennas to work well on all three bands is not an easy thing to do.

--
David S


 

I have tested a few tri-band antennas using an HP VNA. The antennas were
mounted in the middle of a large copper plane about 3-feet square.
Typically, most are good on only two of the three claimed bands. 220 is
usually the loser. However, I have found one and only one that exhibits a
good match on all three bands. That is the Diamond SRH320A. Of course, a
good match does not necessarily indicate a good radiator.

Dave - W?LEV

On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 5:23 PM <davidb1stein@...> wrote:

Here is a quick check - put the 50 ohm load that you used for calibration
and run the same scan as you did for the tri-band antenna. I have had
several dual band and tri-band antennas over the years and have generally
found the dual band will have acceptable VSWR on both bands, but the
tri-bands will generally be ok on 2m/440 and high on 220 or ok on 2m/220
but high on 440. I suspect that for VHF/UHF tri-band antennas to work well
on all three bands is not an easy thing to do.

--
David S





--
*Dave - W?LEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*


 

Interesting, I have a Diamond X6000a tri bander, its a 2m/70cm/23cm designed for the Icom 9700. I have to throw that one on my nanny and see how she does!

I use it of course with a triplexer designed for the same radio/antenna setup, so I will try it with(test each band separately) and without the triplexer. Will be interesting to see how much the triplexer changes things, if any.

Anyone ever try this on that particular antenna?

--
Regards,
Chris K2STP


 

Hi Jack,

I'm very familiar with Ed Fong's Tri-band antenna and I'm pretty sure that there is only one model which consists of a dual-band J-pole for 2m/440 and a helical wound, center-fed dipole for 220 inside a PVC pipe. The J-pole itself is very robust but some care needs to be taken when taking apart or putting together the antenna in order not to bend the 220 dipole.

However Comet makes several different models of Tri-band antennas (and not all of them for same 3 bands).
I own one each of the following 2m. 220, 440 Comet Tri-band antennas: CX-333, SBB-224, SBB-224NMO.
The CX-333 is my base station antenna and installed on top of a 10ft antenna mast (putting the top of the antenna 20ft above the roof). I use the SBB-224 and SBB-224NMO for portable operation (the former with a mast mount with radials and the latter with a magmount on vehicles).

Regardless of model, the Comet antennas are very different designs (end-fed vertical dipole) from the Ed Fong antenna and therefore different results are to be expected. That part of your question is therefore easily answered with a very definite: Normal!

I'm getting a VSWR of less then 3:1 on all bands for all of those antennas when measured under good conditions. This means that I'm doing the measurement outdoors and that there is nothing in the proximity of the antenna that would react and change the results (the antenna is on top of the 18ft MFJ-1919EX tripod+mast or on a mag-mount in the center of the car roof). The "somethings" that commonly effect the result of antenna measurements are people, wires (including the feedline) and trees.

I'd consider a 5:1 result as something that warrants further investigation to find out why it happened.

For my purposes a "close enough" result is sufficient and therefore don't put too much effort into increasing precision in my VSWR measurements.
If you are concerned about accuracy, be sure to upgrade the firmware of the NanoVNA so that it includes the enhancements made over time (such the number of steps used during calibration and measurement). While the software is very good in interpolating, the most accurate results are obtained when using the same steps (number of steps and frequency range) for calibration and measurement and to keep the frequency range as small as the desired measurement allows.
If 2m/220/440 tri-band antennas are what you commonly test, consider saving a wide-band calibration in C0 and then one band-specific calibration for each band of interest saved to C1,C2 and C3. Don't forget to recall the appropriate calibration before switching to measure a different band.

73,
Thomas


 

I have a triband HT antenna that claims to be an ABBREE AR771. I ran a quick and dirty test with it mounted to the nanoVNA and held in my hand as one would hold a HT. All three bands were low at the SWR dip but best case SWR on 220 clocked in at about 1.5 while 144 and 440 were up around 2.6 best case. But then antenna matches for hand held devices are moving targets anyway and it is truly amazing how much abuse the final transistors in these things can take.

The thing works on the $40 radio I got it for so I'm happy. I haven't done much in the way of real world testing as this is just a beater/backup radio anyway.

73

-Jim
NU0C

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 17:46:27 +0000
"David Eckhardt" <davearea51a@...> wrote:

I have tested a few tri-band antennas using an HP VNA. The antennas were
mounted in the middle of a large copper plane about 3-feet square.
Typically, most are good on only two of the three claimed bands. 220 is
usually the loser. However, I have found one and only one that exhibits a
good match on all three bands. That is the Diamond SRH320A. Of course, a
good match does not necessarily indicate a good radiator.

Dave - W?LEV

On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 5:23 PM <davidb1stein@...> wrote:

Here is a quick check - put the 50 ohm load that you used for calibration
and run the same scan as you did for the tri-band antenna. I have had
several dual band and tri-band antennas over the years and have generally
found the dual band will have acceptable VSWR on both bands, but the
tri-bands will generally be ok on 2m/440 and high on 220 or ok on 2m/220
but high on 440. I suspect that for VHF/UHF tri-band antennas to work well
on all three bands is not an easy thing to do.

--
David S






 

Here is a good triband antenna that is cheap and easy to build. I've done
several of these and several in the bunch here in N. Colorado. You can't
beat it for simplicity and low cost.

[image: image.png]

The SWR should look pretty good on all three bands. With this design, 446
is the most compromised for radiation as a 3/4-wavelength radiator. 144
and 224 it functions as a 1/4-wavelength radiator. Of course, the GP needs
to be at least 1/4-wavelength in radius at the lowest frequency - nominally
36-inches in diameter - for best performance.

Dave - W?LEV

On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 6:35 PM Thomas Leibold <leibold@...> wrote:

Hi Jack,

I'm very familiar with Ed Fong's Tri-band antenna and I'm pretty sure that
there is only one model which consists of a dual-band J-pole for 2m/440 and
a helical wound, center-fed dipole for 220 inside a PVC pipe. The J-pole
itself is very robust but some care needs to be taken when taking apart or
putting together the antenna in order not to bend the 220 dipole.

However Comet makes several different models of Tri-band antennas (and not
all of them for same 3 bands).
I own one each of the following 2m. 220, 440 Comet Tri-band antennas:
CX-333, SBB-224, SBB-224NMO.
The CX-333 is my base station antenna and installed on top of a 10ft
antenna mast (putting the top of the antenna 20ft above the roof). I use
the SBB-224 and SBB-224NMO for portable operation (the former with a mast
mount with radials and the latter with a magmount on vehicles).

Regardless of model, the Comet antennas are very different designs
(end-fed vertical dipole) from the Ed Fong antenna and therefore different
results are to be expected. That part of your question is therefore easily
answered with a very definite: Normal!

I'm getting a VSWR of less then 3:1 on all bands for all of those antennas
when measured under good conditions. This means that I'm doing the
measurement outdoors and that there is nothing in the proximity of the
antenna that would react and change the results (the antenna is on top of
the 18ft MFJ-1919EX tripod+mast or on a mag-mount in the center of the car
roof). The "somethings" that commonly effect the result of antenna
measurements are people, wires (including the feedline) and trees.

I'd consider a 5:1 result as something that warrants further investigation
to find out why it happened.

For my purposes a "close enough" result is sufficient and therefore don't
put too much effort into increasing precision in my VSWR measurements.
If you are concerned about accuracy, be sure to upgrade the firmware of
the NanoVNA so that it includes the enhancements made over time (such the
number of steps used during calibration and measurement). While the
software is very good in interpolating, the most accurate results are
obtained when using the same steps (number of steps and frequency range)
for calibration and measurement and to keep the frequency range as small as
the desired measurement allows.
If 2m/220/440 tri-band antennas are what you commonly test, consider
saving a wide-band calibration in C0 and then one band-specific calibration
for each band of interest saved to C1,C2 and C3. Don't forget to recall the
appropriate calibration before switching to measure a different band.

73,
Thomas





--
*Dave - W?LEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*


 

Ref Dave W0LEV antenna drawing

I don't see any dimensions for the horizontal elements? Can you add them to drawing?

Thanks


 

Good Afternoon,

Did you reset and calibrate per band you were sweeping? In my
experience, getting those kinds of results usually means either the antenna
is not resonant on those bands or there is something wrong with the
calibration. I usually calibrate each band separately and save them out.
Set the sweep start and stop points. Go to the calibration menu, hit
reset, then perform a calibration.



Jim Barber
KJ7JGB
Phone: 503.547.9524
<>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 6:24 PM Jack S <kj7trf@...> wrote:

Hi, new user so thanks for your patience.

Calibrated and confirmed appropriate procedure per reference videos.
Did a wide sweep, and then resonant sweeps for two different triband
antennas and found: good VSWR for two bands (~1.2:1 , high VSWR (¡À5:1) for
other two bands, both antennas on different bands (one was high on 75cm,
the other 220(?)). So two different bands had one high SWR, and two low SWR
readings on _different bands_. (Comet vs. Fong)

Would the reason be calibration, normal, or user error? Thanks!







 

Somewhat off-topic - but at least tangentially related: Just last week I purchased a Comet CA-2X4SR, which is marketed as a dual band 2m/70cm antenna. When I swept it, I discovered it is also resonant on 220, and has less than 1.4:1 across the entire band. Too bad I don't have any radios to take advantage of this!

Sweeps are attached.

Tony W2ASC