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Hi Kurt Poulsen,

I understand you, but something is false. Best way the fully calibrated instrument. But if not available, for example if can not do osl far end calibration port extension useful. This is exist industrial vna too. See keysight notes. Of course not ideal. But better than none. Many complex coaxial line model and correction available.

Hi Rune and others
First of all thank you for keeping the NanoVNA-saver a clean product sticking to "transmission delays" only all the way thru.
For S11 reflections the "transmission delay" is correctly called Offset Delay and for S21 transmission delay just called Delay. This way it is so simple to manipulate delay data remembering that 20fF causes an offset delay of 1ps and 50pH causes an offset delay of 1ps when setting up the calibration kit data in the NanoVNA-saver, and nothing to think about with the new implementation of delay adjustment. Below link define why this delay definitions apply.
basic knowledge about a transmission line.pdf
By keeping the NanoVNA-saver clean of the "muddy business" for the user to keep track of the physical delays (forth and back to the point the reflection takes place), where is twice the Offset Delay, and only deal with one way delays we leave the rest to the developer of NanoVNA-saver and a great decision.
I also hope you stick to the way extension delay as is (for the time being), as introducing loss is not at all clever, as there are so many other factors influences of doing a delay to the end of a cable, such as frequency dependent loss and frequency dependent delay in all cables, dispersion of signal in the cable, skin effect just to name a few areas for cable behavior. It is bound to fail and not really relevant for the nanoVNA not having facilities for a full 12 term error correction either.
That was just my hubble thinking this morning
Kind regards
Kurt

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Rune Broberg
Sendt: 5. december 2019 09:32
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

Kurt and Roger,
thank you for the correction! I'm sure I've messed up the conversion from picoseconds to seconds :-)

I agree that shifting to the end of a cable using the delay is not very accurate - but in some cases, it's all you can do. At least the option is there! ;-)

--
Rune / 5Q5R

if I use CHO/CH1 to e.g. check a CMC and I select LOGMAG for CH1 is it then
true that LOGMAG will show transmission loss

If
* CMC means Common Mode Choke
* connections are e.g. Fig 3 (a) in
* CH1 was first calibrated without CMC
then that will yield transmission loss for common mode choke.

.. but if connected as Fig 2 (b) with CH1 as LISN, then measurement is
e.g. transmission loss for conventional coax that happens to have a CMC.

In theory, one could connect CH0 and CH1 centers to shield and center of one end of transmission line
and terminate the other end, as in Fig 2 (a).
With matched termination and without CMC, CH1 would ideally show infinite loss,
so effectiveness of CMC is by lack of loss, so to speak.

all of these versions jitter all over the screen for the first few mins,none show the marker in the smith chart,anyone else get this?,im on win7sp1

Hi Rune
Very probably ?
Regarding the comment where to place the field for delay adjustment so the calibration window does not shadow for the displays of data it is logical to have it under calibration and it is simply a matter of move the calibration window on top of the input fields to the left so it the position as default could be extremer left it would solve this shadowing issue. During the delay adjustments no need to have access to these input fields except for a new sweep

Kind regards

Kurt



-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Rune Broberg
Sendt: 5. december 2019 09:32
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1



Kurt and Roger,

thank you for the correction! I'm sure I've messed up the conversion from picoseconds to seconds :-)



I agree that shifting to the end of a cable using the delay is not very accurate - but in some cases, it's all you can do. At least the option is there! ;-)



--

Rune / 5Q5R

When I use CH0 then LOGMAG is reflection loss (in dB). But if I use CHO/CH1 to e.g. check a CMC and I select LOGMAG for CH1 is it then true that LOGMAG will show transmission loss?
Regards/ Torbjorn

Simplest is to connect 5 volt to the "OFF" position of the power switch. Easy to solder at the side of the PCB
Now you can switch the nanoVNA on by switching it on

--
NanoVNA Wiki: /g/nanovna-users/wiki/home
NanoVNA Files: /g/nanovna-users/files
Erik, PD0EK

Hi Bob

Based on your description, you should read on "NanoVNA does not want to start-solved", I hope that what you have written there will help you.
Use the "Search" window.

73, Gyula HA3HZ

Kurt and Roger,
thank you for the correction! I'm sure I've messed up the conversion from
picoseconds to seconds :-)

I agree that shifting to the end of a cable using the delay is not very
accurate - but in some cases, it's all you can do. At least the option is
there! ;-)

--
Rune / 5Q5R

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 at 06:27, Roger Need via Groups.Io <sailtamarack=
[email protected]> wrote:

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 03:09 PM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:

Kurt and Rune,

I found the same thing as Kurt. I had to multiply the delay by 10. I
have connector savers on my NanoVNA. They add a delay of 52 ps. as
reported by Dave Kirby in an earlier post. I had to enter -520 to get the
short and open to go to the two extremes on on the Smith Chart horizontal
axis.

Roger

Hi Rune
The dealy to enter is by a factor of ten. E.g. if the measurement plane

has to

be shifted backward to the calibration plane by 50.7ps the I must enter

-507ps

and this the sign is Ok.
I used the calibration with two testcables and calibrated with the

female kit

setting and left the thru adaptor positioned (I had created a

calibration kit

file and used it)
Kind regards
Kurt

Thanks the new version, experimential port extension very good news.

Of course, loss compensation option(s) requied too. But math not easy, now next entry level is easy. Good start point to advanced math.

For simple lossless port extension only required the delay. But have many way to get this. Simplest, everything is unkown, simply try and see what happen is change the delay.

If you know port extension physical lenght and velocity factor, delay easy computable. Try it, and fine tune with small delay value change. Delay, physical lenght, and velocity factor easy compute, if you know two of them. Many instrument, manuals use different method to set delay. Many uses the delay, others use electrical lenght (millimeters) and velocity factor = 1. Others use mechanical lenght (millimeters) + true velocity factor (for example 0,66).

Another differencies, some instrument use one way delay, some use two way delay. The signal from instrumnet travel to port extension end (one way delay), now if not ideally terminated, the part of signal reflected back to instrument (two way delay).

I suggest there input, delay, velocity factor, lenght. Simple check box useful (one or two way delay). More elegant, settings for delay picoseconds, nanoseconds. To lenght in millimeters, centimeters, meters, feet, inches.

If you not know the lenght or delay, and the coaxial line terminated by complex antenne or not, many times useful the tdr lenght to delay compute. Not easy the simple delay guess on real antenna + coaxial cable. TDR help a lot.

Many times good result with antenna, but sometimes fail. If you think your line between 30 to 60 meters, and you get 49,68 meter no big problem. If you get outside, something is wrong. If you disconect the far end of cable, you will have good value. If impossible disconnect, try short the antenne.

Example, 1000.000mm lenght velocity factor 1 coax cable one way delay:

1000.000/0.299792458/1 = 3335.641 picoseconds

Example, 1000.000mm lenght velocity factor 0.700 coax cable one way delay:

1000.000/0.299792458/0.700 = 4765.200 picoseconds

0.299792458 = light speed constans

Next level the loss compensation.

I tested it on arm-none-eabi-gcc (15:4.9.3+svn231177-1) 4.9.3 20150529 (prerelease)

The latest github version can fit into memory with all commands enabled, just out of the repository.

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 03:09 PM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:

Kurt and Rune,

I found the same thing as Kurt. I had to multiply the delay by 10. I have connector savers on my NanoVNA. They add a delay of 52 ps. as reported by Dave Kirby in an earlier post. I had to enter -520 to get the short and open to go to the two extremes on on the Smith Chart horizontal axis.

Roger

Hi Rune
The dealy to enter is by a factor of ten. E.g. if the measurement plane has to
be shifted backward to the calibration plane by 50.7ps the I must enter -507ps
and this the sign is Ok.
I used the calibration with two testcables and calibrated with the female kit
setting and left the thru adaptor positioned (I had created a calibration kit
file and used it)
Kind regards
Kurt

Well, if this is only for your own personal use, I would suggest you can begin removing all the help text and associated code, incuding the info text.??
Afterall, you already know how to use the commands, right???
... Larry



On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 6:50 PM, Lapo Pieri<ik5nax@...> wrote: Hi,
I got this:

.....
/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld: build/ch.elf section `.data' will not fit in region `flash0'
/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld: region `flash0' overflowed by 208 bytes
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [ChibiOS/os/common/startup/ARMCMx/compilers/GCC/rules.mk:243: build/ch.elf] Error 1


$ arm-none-eabi-gcc --version
arm-none-eabi-gcc (15:7-2018-q2-6+b1) 7.3.1 20180622 (release) [ARM/embedded-7-branch revision 261907]

How could I fix it?

Many thanks

Lapo

There is no need to download from the Play Store.?
Go to GitHub/cho45 and download the release directly from the releases section then sideload it on the Fire tablet.?
Here's the link:.? ?

You will get updates faster from here than from Play.?


On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 6:03 PM, k9wkj<k9wkjham@...> wrote: find some instructions to install the Google Play Store on your Fire
then install the NanoVNA app right from the Play store
profit!!

used it on a repeater site last week again

That doesn't happen here.? Perhaps it's the version you are using.
Bob

Hi,
I got this:

.....
/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld: build/ch.elf section `.data' will not fit in region `flash0'
/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld: region `flash0' overflowed by 208 bytes
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [ChibiOS/os/common/startup/ARMCMx/compilers/GCC/rules.mk:243: build/ch.elf] Error 1


$ arm-none-eabi-gcc --version
arm-none-eabi-gcc (15:7-2018-q2-6+b1) 7.3.1 20180622 (release) [ARM/embedded-7-branch revision 261907]

How could I fix it?

Many thanks

Lapo

I have a problem that the 5V input to the vna is shorted.? ?I cannot charge the battery.? So I tried charging the battery from a power supply and all works ok.
I opened the unit and unsoldered the connector, USB.? I tested and the connector is not shorted.
Now I find the vna no longer accepts power.? Perhaps there is a jumper inside the connector I removed.
This connector is so small I don't see how to reinstall it.
The schematic diagram of the VNA shows no USB connector that I can find so that I can manage to operate the unit.? I would not care if it uses this connector; I can put something else on, and sacrifice the communication port feature.
Can someone explain where to apply 5V so as to get the unit operational again?? There are many pins to this connector, more than I thought would be needed to function.? If I knew which pads to connect to external 5V I could do that and it would be sufficient for my needs.
Bob

Hi Rune
The dealy to enter is by a factor of ten. E.g. if the measurement plane has to be shifted backward to the calibration plane by 50.7ps the I must enter -507ps and this the sign is Ok.
I used the calibration with two testcables and calibrated with the female kit setting and left the thru adaptor positioned (I had created a calibration kit file and used it)
Kind regards
Kurt
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Rune Broberg
Sendt: 4. december 2019 12:24
Til: [email protected]; [email protected]
Emne: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

I have released a new version of NanoVNA-Saver, 0.2.1:


This release is a minor update to the 0.2.0 release:
New feature: Capacitance and Inductance charts These new charts display the calculated series equivalent Capacitance and Inductance against frequency.

New feature: Panning and modified zooming You can now hold the middle mouse button to pan a zoomed chart, or hold shift or control to only zoom the value or frequency axis when zooming using the mouse wheel.

Moving markers using the arrow keys
After placing a marker on a chart by clicking with the mouse, it's now possible to move the marker immediately using the arrow keys.

Experimental feature: Port extension/Offset delay The calibration window has a new experimental feature. You can set an offset delay, which I'm told is useful for compensating for cables used when measuring without doing a full calibration. The value is applied immediately when changed, and is not connected to the other calibration features. Feedback on this feature is specifically requested.

Additionally, a number of bugfixes have been made, based on your feedback - Thank you! A lot of tidying has happened on the back end of the code, as well as the introduction of some automatic testing - thanks to Holger Müller and David Hunt!

As ever, I look forward to hearing all your feedback and suggestions!

--
Rune / 5Q5R

find some instructions to install the Google Play Store on your Fire
then install the NanoVNA app right from the Play store
profit!!

used it on a repeater site last week again

Tom, the nanoVNA goes to 1500 MHz.? Just key in that frequency in the Stimulus menu.
BobK6DDX