On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 06:10 AM, Don Rolph wrote:
OK what are you trying to do?
If you want to use it as an SWR meter you can:
- initially ignore ca;ibaration: it will have impact on the actual values,
but not the shape of the curve
- turn off curves other than SWR
and compare the results with your other SWR meters.
The calibration procedure can be found at:
-
It might be useful to get the test board:
-
and experiment with the different test options.
Good luck!
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 5:03 AM Observer <tvstreamdevice@...> wrote:
Just recieved a nanoVNA today.
Can someone tell me or point me to online sources about , without fancy
mathematical technical terms :
How to start , I heard, I need to calibrate ? How ?
How to check antenna impedance, in ohms please, no smiths charts stuff ,
just ohms !
How to check capacitors and inductor values .
How to check the input /output impedance of test equipment
--
73,
AB1PH
Don Rolph
Be careful about suggesting using nanoVNA as an SWR Meter. Most SWR Meters are used between a transmitter and an antenna to show the SWR in the transmission line at an operating frequency. The nanoVNA is connected to a transmission line and antenna to show what the SWR will be when fed from a transmitter at various frequencies. It would lead to disaster if someone connected a nanoVNA between a transmitter and antenna. But we knew what you meant.
|
Re: Should I upgrade firmware, and if so which version to use?
I believe this should be a personal decision and not the consensus of a
group of...... Do the research on your own, present your conclusions to a
group, and make a decision. Don't reverse the first two steps.
Just my opinion.
Dave - W?LEV
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 10:16 PM Dave Fugleberg <dave.w0zf@...> wrote: After 35 years in IT, I¡¯ve learned a few things about software/firmware
upgrades.
The decision to update *anything *depends on 3 factors: business need,
supportability, and risk. This is true of your NanoVNA, your PC, your
radio, or whatever...
Only YOU can determine if YOUR 'business need' requires an update- examples
would be desired functionality or usability enhancements, or fixes to bugs
that affect your use of the system.
'Supportability' factors include whether support from the provider is
needed or desired, and what their policies are. Don't expect much help on a
very old version of software that's had a lot of development since that
version was released. If you ask a software provider for help, they will
likely (and rightly) ask you to update to the latest before trying to
troubleshoot your issue. They're not being difficult - they just don't want
to spend time on something that may already be addressed in a newer
version.
'Risk' is the factor that's often overlooked or misunderstood. There are
many kinds of risks. For a standalone device with embedded firmware, the
security risk is pretty low, but there can still be operational risk (not
fit for purpose, etc). That's where 'if it ain't broke...' makes sense.
For a device that's going to talk to a hostile network (which these days
means most any network), the risk of vulnerabilities in old software
increases exponentially. In that case, updates are important whether
business need or supportability suggest a need for an update or not. In
ham radio, some of the latest transceivers with ethernet connectivity come
to mind. I would want some assurance that the manufacturers are keeping up
with security patches, and apply those in a timely manner. Don't forget to
include the risk to others in your risk assessment - unpatched devices on
the internet are routinely used by the bad guys to attack or defraud
others. Don't be that guy.
In summary, the question of when or whether to update any software or
firmware is neither 'apply every update' nor 'never update' - it has to
consider business need, supportability, and risk. You probably do that
without explicitly thinking in those terms anyhow, but deliberately
thinking through it will either confirm or challenge your instinctive
decision.
73 de W0ZF
On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 4:20 AM David Wilcox K8WPE via groups.io
<Djwilcox01@...> wrote:
Somehow you all missed my point a few days ago¡.. much of the upgrades in
firmware are beyond the pay grade of many of the initial users. Until one
gets used to using the nano (or your handheld or any new radio tool you
have) and performing the tasks it was originally designed for WHY have new
features that one doesn¡¯t need or understand? The learning curve of
upgrading (especially if you have never done it before) can be intimidating
and an error makes your nano useless. It¡¯s always nice to have the latest
greatest whatever but much of the time it isn¡¯t needed. My initial H4 nano
from R&L Electronics still does all I have needed it for. Someday when I
get snowed in or whatever I might look into upgrading but if I don¡¯t need
the new features why bother?
There are those who need to have the latest greatest and for them that is
fine but many of the upgrades are for special needs that don¡¯t apply to all
of us. Maybe if I had a local guru walk me through upgrades a few times I
might change my mind but doing an upgrade just to do it doesn¡¯t make sense.
If it isn¡¯t broken why fix it? I originally had a guru help me set up my
DMR handheld and hotspot and then he moved away¡.. it still does what I
need even though there have been upgrades to the AnyTone 878. I am still
having fun and haven¡¯t needed to write an email here because I screwed up
and bricked my handheld or nano. The newest young guru in our club goes
through it all so fast I can¡¯t keep up. He¡¯s not a good teacher even though
willing to do upgrades on some things¡. But not the nano yet, just DMR.
Case in point¡. Windows upgrades! How many issues occur every time that
happens? It sure generates a multitude of emails to the various QRP groups
I follow. Even Linux seems to have multiple upgrades of each version¡. What
to do?
Dave K8WPE since 1960 and still having fun with my limited knowledge and
initial firmware.
David J. Wilcox¡¯s iPad
On Jul 12, 2022, at 11:24 PM, Jim Shorney <jimNU0C@...> wrote:
?
But if your wife wants to "upgrade" her shoes do you tell her no? :D
The bottom line with upgrades is stuff works better. Who doesn't want that? The developers are very quick to fix bugs so you can be pretty
confident that the latest stable version that is out there won't be buggy.
Could a new bug surface that no one has caught yet? Sure. That is true of
literally everything that uses software/firmware. But it probably won't be
anything major if it took a while to surface.
73
-Jim
NU0C
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 04:10:55 -0700
"alex" <alex@...> wrote:
Right. The question should be "am I missing something I want to use
right now or am I using something that has a bug and should be repaired
right now." If you don't know what you're missing and all your tests are
performed well, why should you upgrade. Yeah some bugs might be solved, but
others could enter just your tests. This is like a married man who wants an
upgrade of his wife, is it necessary, is it broken?
-- *Dave - W?LEV* *Just Let Darwin Work*
--
Dave - W?LEV
|
Re: Should I upgrade firmware, and if so which version to use?
After 35 years in IT, I¡¯ve learned a few things about software/firmware upgrades. The decision to update *anything *depends on 3 factors: business need, supportability, and risk. This is true of your NanoVNA, your PC, your radio, or whatever... Only YOU can determine if YOUR 'business need' requires an update- examples would be desired functionality or usability enhancements, or fixes to bugs that affect your use of the system. 'Supportability' factors include whether support from the provider is needed or desired, and what their policies are. Don't expect much help on a very old version of software that's had a lot of development since that version was released. If you ask a software provider for help, they will likely (and rightly) ask you to update to the latest before trying to troubleshoot your issue. They're not being difficult - they just don't want to spend time on something that may already be addressed in a newer version. 'Risk' is the factor that's often overlooked or misunderstood. There are many kinds of risks. For a standalone device with embedded firmware, the security risk is pretty low, but there can still be operational risk (not fit for purpose, etc). That's where 'if it ain't broke...' makes sense. For a device that's going to talk to a hostile network (which these days means most any network), the risk of vulnerabilities in old software increases exponentially. In that case, updates are important whether business need or supportability suggest a need for an update or not. In ham radio, some of the latest transceivers with ethernet connectivity come to mind. I would want some assurance that the manufacturers are keeping up with security patches, and apply those in a timely manner. Don't forget to include the risk to others in your risk assessment - unpatched devices on the internet are routinely used by the bad guys to attack or defraud others. Don't be that guy. In summary, the question of when or whether to update any software or firmware is neither 'apply every update' nor 'never update' - it has to consider business need, supportability, and risk. You probably do that without explicitly thinking in those terms anyhow, but deliberately thinking through it will either confirm or challenge your instinctive decision. 73 de W0ZF On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 4:20 AM David Wilcox K8WPE via groups.io <Djwilcox01@...> wrote: Somehow you all missed my point a few days ago¡.. much of the upgrades in
firmware are beyond the pay grade of many of the initial users. Until one
gets used to using the nano (or your handheld or any new radio tool you
have) and performing the tasks it was originally designed for WHY have new
features that one doesn¡¯t need or understand? The learning curve of
upgrading (especially if you have never done it before) can be intimidating
and an error makes your nano useless. It¡¯s always nice to have the latest
greatest whatever but much of the time it isn¡¯t needed. My initial H4 nano
from R&L Electronics still does all I have needed it for. Someday when I
get snowed in or whatever I might look into upgrading but if I don¡¯t need
the new features why bother?
There are those who need to have the latest greatest and for them that is
fine but many of the upgrades are for special needs that don¡¯t apply to all
of us. Maybe if I had a local guru walk me through upgrades a few times I
might change my mind but doing an upgrade just to do it doesn¡¯t make sense.
If it isn¡¯t broken why fix it? I originally had a guru help me set up my
DMR handheld and hotspot and then he moved away¡.. it still does what I
need even though there have been upgrades to the AnyTone 878. I am still
having fun and haven¡¯t needed to write an email here because I screwed up
and bricked my handheld or nano. The newest young guru in our club goes
through it all so fast I can¡¯t keep up. He¡¯s not a good teacher even though
willing to do upgrades on some things¡. But not the nano yet, just DMR.
Case in point¡. Windows upgrades! How many issues occur every time that
happens? It sure generates a multitude of emails to the various QRP groups
I follow. Even Linux seems to have multiple upgrades of each version¡. What
to do?
Dave K8WPE since 1960 and still having fun with my limited knowledge and
initial firmware.
David J. Wilcox¡¯s iPad
On Jul 12, 2022, at 11:24 PM, Jim Shorney <jimNU0C@...> wrote:
?
But if your wife wants to "upgrade" her shoes do you tell her no? :D
The bottom line with upgrades is stuff works better. Who doesn't want that? The developers are very quick to fix bugs so you can be pretty
confident that the latest stable version that is out there won't be buggy.
Could a new bug surface that no one has caught yet? Sure. That is true of
literally everything that uses software/firmware. But it probably won't be
anything major if it took a while to surface.
73
-Jim
NU0C
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 04:10:55 -0700
"alex" <alex@...> wrote:
Right. The question should be "am I missing something I want to use
right now or am I using something that has a bug and should be repaired
right now." If you don't know what you're missing and all your tests are
performed well, why should you upgrade. Yeah some bugs might be solved, but
others could enter just your tests. This is like a married man who wants an
upgrade of his wife, is it necessary, is it broken?
|
Re: Common ground and 2-port measuring
Hi Victor,
Thank you, I await your results on DM measurement after your parts arrive, if you are kind enough to post them. I hope you have better experience than I on delivery, I ordered some items from China just after Christmas, they arrived last week!
What else do you see as needed with my DM method to obtain a complete model for DM measurement?
Our discussion started out as, is there a difference, significant or otherwise between your DM measurement technique and my simpler approach to practical measurement. It has widened now.
Re models and your footnote link -
This is part of a very long and detailed webpage of an unknown authors investigation and experimentations ¡°to determine which Hybrid Choke/Transformer to use for a 40m OCFD¡±. As of today, no conclusion is yet written.
The section you bring to my attention today appears to relate to the ¡®OC¡¯ measurement and model rather than DM/CM representations. I do not see any comparisons between OC and DM/CM i.e. how well does OC compare to DM/CM, do you have any information on this?
Kind regards
Ed
|
Re: Ubuntu PPA or .deb installation
Sure, but a PPA simplify update.
|
Re: Should I upgrade firmware, and if so which version to use?
I also upgrade.. In some cases just minutes after an upgrade is available (example sdrradio console)... But that's off topic grin
I am also a member of test team group..
So if you are not fear of upgrading and maybe step backwards if there is a bug (or just wait for next release) then i try to be right on the last version.. Be it with sdrc.. Or with v2plus4 or v2
That helps developers to find bugs easier
Imagine you find a bug.. And tell programmer that it is "somewhere in the last 20 versions"... Not easy to find
If you have only one device.. And need it regularly.. Then maybe stay a bit slower on upgrades... But i have three different v2 units.. So i test a new fw in one.. And if ok i upgrade the other two
Cause those are a bit different. Its a good test... I have a v2 modded with a 4 inch screen... An saa2n modded to v2plus (means 4 inch and n socket)
And a v2plus4 (4 inch but much different fw cause bootloader used is closed source)
So three slightly different units.
If i have some sparetime i will add sd card to one... And use fw from dislord that supports storage on card..
So.. The v2 and all of its clones, brothers and daughters... Is a living project
Where one can stay on a unit and fw and just use like it is.. Or upgrade and modify (sometimes with solder work)... And have all newest bings and boings
(sd card storage, real time clock, battery display)
So its your choice to have an up to date unit.. Or stay in an earlier fw
Dg9bfc sigi
Am 14.07.2022 16:45 schrieb "David J Taylor via groups.io" <david-taylor@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
One basic practice of networking is: "If it works, leave it!".? If your
VNA
works well-enough for you, there's no /need/ to upgrade, but also no
reason why
you should not experiment - if you wish.
I try to wait a few weeks after an update is released before upgrading,
see how
others get on, but I do upgrade regularly.
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web:
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv
|
You will find a lot of useful videos on youtube... If you looked a few of them you at least know some basics
What is that damned smith for??
How to calibrate
What are all those traces mean
How to measure this or that
...
So i highly recommend to watch a few of those..
Greetz sigi dg9bfc
Am 14.07.2022 16:44 schrieb "Chuck, KF0CT" <chu_r@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of
Reinier Gerritsen <r.gerritsen@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 2:38 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] nanoVNA for Nerds
I can't tell, never saw "Grumpy old men" , but I'd name Waldorf and
Statler.?
On July 14, 2022 4:10 PM Chuck, KF0CT <chu_r@...> wrote:
Yes, that's right.? You are looking more and more like Walter Matthau every day.??? ? And I'm looking like Jack Lemmon more every day....
________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of
Reinier Gerritsen <r.gerritsen@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 1:06 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Lou W7HV via groups.io <louandzip@...>
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] nanoVNA for Nerds
That is absolutely true. But if you just reveived a nanoVNA and ask for help for the absolute basics and tell us you want "just ohms", that's not
the right spirit in my opinion. Or maybe I'm becoming an old grumpy man...
On July 14, 2022 2:31 PM Lou W7HV via groups.io
<louandzip@...> wrote:
It seems many posters here are learning a lot and figuring things out
they didn't know after having bought a nanoVNA.? If it successfully
motivates that, then perhaps buying one before you know much about it
might be a good thing for some. They're cheap enough.
|
Re: Should I upgrade firmware, and if so which version to use?
One basic practice of networking is: "If it works, leave it!". If your VNA
works well-enough for you, there's no /need/ to upgrade, but also no reason why
you should not experiment - if you wish.
I try to wait a few weeks after an update is released before upgrading, see how
others get on, but I do upgrade regularly.
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web:
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv
|
? ________________________________ From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Reinier Gerritsen <r.gerritsen@...> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 2:38 PM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] nanoVNA for Nerds I can't tell, never saw "Grumpy old men" , but I'd name Waldorf and Statler.? On July 14, 2022 4:10 PM Chuck, KF0CT <chu_r@...> wrote:
Yes, that's right. You are looking more and more like Walter Matthau every day. ? And I'm looking like Jack Lemmon more every day....
________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Reinier Gerritsen <r.gerritsen@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 1:06 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Lou W7HV via groups.io <louandzip@...>
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] nanoVNA for Nerds
That is absolutely true. But if you just reveived a nanoVNA and ask for help for the absolute basics and tell us you want "just ohms", that's not the right spirit in my opinion. Or maybe I'm becoming an old grumpy man...
On July 14, 2022 2:31 PM Lou W7HV via groups.io <louandzip@...> wrote:
It seems many posters here are learning a lot and figuring things out they didn't know after having bought a nanoVNA. If it successfully motivates that, then perhaps buying one before you know much about it might be a good thing for some. They're cheap enough.
|
I can't tell, never saw "Grumpy old men" , but I'd name Waldorf and Statler.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On July 14, 2022 4:10 PM Chuck, KF0CT <chu_r@...> wrote:
Yes, that's right. You are looking more and more like Walter Matthau every day. ? And I'm looking like Jack Lemmon more every day....
________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Reinier Gerritsen <r.gerritsen@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 1:06 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Lou W7HV via groups.io <louandzip@...>
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] nanoVNA for Nerds
That is absolutely true. But if you just reveived a nanoVNA and ask for help for the absolute basics and tell us you want "just ohms", that's not the right spirit in my opinion. Or maybe I'm becoming an old grumpy man...
On July 14, 2022 2:31 PM Lou W7HV via groups.io <louandzip@...> wrote:
It seems many posters here are learning a lot and figuring things out they didn't know after having bought a nanoVNA. If it successfully motivates that, then perhaps buying one before you know much about it might be a good thing for some. They're cheap enough.
|
Yes, that's right. You are looking more and more like Walter Matthau every day. ? And I'm looking like Jack Lemmon more every day.... ________________________________ From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Reinier Gerritsen <r.gerritsen@...> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 1:06 PM To: [email protected] < [email protected]>; Lou W7HV via groups.io <louandzip@...> Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] nanoVNA for Nerds That is absolutely true. But if you just reveived a nanoVNA and ask for help for the absolute basics and tell us you want "just ohms", that's not the right spirit in my opinion. Or maybe I'm becoming an old grumpy man... On July 14, 2022 2:31 PM Lou W7HV via groups.io <louandzip@...> wrote:
It seems many posters here are learning a lot and figuring things out they didn't know after having bought a nanoVNA. If it successfully motivates that, then perhaps buying one before you know much about it might be a good thing for some. They're cheap enough.
|
OK what are you trying to do?
If you want to use it as an SWR meter you can:
- initially ignore ca;ibaration: it will have impact on the actual values,
but not the shape of the curve
- turn off curves other than SWR
and compare the results with your other SWR meters.
The calibration procedure can be found at:
-
It might be useful to get the test board:
-
and experiment with the different test options.
Good luck!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 5:03 AM Observer <tvstreamdevice@...> wrote: Just recieved a nanoVNA today.
Can someone tell me or point me to online sources about , without fancy
mathematical technical terms :
How to start , I heard, I need to calibrate ? How ?
How to check antenna impedance, in ohms please, no smiths charts stuff ,
just ohms !
How to check capacitors and inductor values .
How to check the input /output impedance of test equipment
--
73,
AB1PH
Don Rolph
|
That is absolutely true. But if you just reveived a nanoVNA and ask for help for the absolute basics and tell us you want "just ohms", that's not the right spirit in my opinion. Or maybe I'm becoming an old grumpy man...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On July 14, 2022 2:31 PM Lou W7HV via groups.io <louandzip@...> wrote:
It seems many posters here are learning a lot and figuring things out they didn't know after having bought a nanoVNA. If it successfully motivates that, then perhaps buying one before you know much about it might be a good thing for some. They're cheap enough.
|
It seems many posters here are learning a lot and figuring things out they didn't know after having bought a nanoVNA. If it successfully motivates that, then perhaps buying one before you know much about it might be a good thing for some. They're cheap enough.
|
Sorry, a VNA is not suited for you. You'll need to understand how it works and what calibration does. Otherwise you won't be able to trust your measurements. Cookbook recipes cover just a fraction of my VNA work. And do get a grip on Smith charts, you won't regret it. No need to be a math wizzard in order to grasp the basics.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On July 14, 2022 11:03 AM Observer <tvstreamdevice@...> wrote:
Just recieved a nanoVNA today.
Can someone tell me or point me to online sources about , without fancy mathematical technical terms :
How to start , I heard, I need to calibrate ? How ?
How to check antenna impedance, in ohms please, no smiths charts stuff , just ohms !
How to check capacitors and inductor values .
How to check the input /output impedance of test equipment
|
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 11:55 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:
It is nice to know what you actually want to measure and how to measure some
basic stuff in the first place.
Arie, you are 100% right. I.M.H.O it's the wrong way to buy something (although very nice) and try to find a problem to solve. The better path (again to my humble opinion) is when you encounter a problem, understand it, find a way to measure it, buy a NanoVNA and then solve it. Or when you want to develop/experiment, first learn the basic stuff. 73 Alex, PE1EVX
|
All answers and links to manuals are in the wiki, see the links below.
You'll learn a lot in a short time, faster than letting people type it out again :-)
Then again, if you are not familiar with the language involved, you better visit study that first. It is nice to know what you actually want to measure and how to measure some basic stuff in the first place.
Personally I learned a lot reading the wiki and following a few weeks of meassages in this group.
73
Arie
Op 14-7-2022 om 11:03 schreef Observer:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Just recieved a nanoVNA today.
Can someone tell me or point me to online sources about , without fancy mathematical technical terms :
How to start , I heard, I need to calibrate ? How ?
How to check antenna impedance, in ohms please, no smiths charts stuff , just ohms !
How to check capacitors and inductor values .
How to check the input /output impedance of test equipment
|
|
|
|
|
Just recieved a nanoVNA today.
Can someone tell me or point me to online sources about , without fancy mathematical technical terms :
How to start , I heard, I need to calibrate ? How ?
How to check antenna impedance, in ohms please, no smiths charts stuff , just ohms !
How to check capacitors and inductor values .
How to check the input /output impedance of test equipment
|
Ken
Nickko - ON9NG
David J Taylor
Lou W7HV
Arie Kleingeld PA3A
Ho-Ro