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On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 03:47 PM, Leif M wrote:

Is S11 or CH0 impedance also available in polar plot form?
========================================================

Leif,
You may have already found this information but if not, by selecting the NanoVNA-Saver 0.2.2 "Display Settings" command button a window will pop-up and in that window there is a "Settings" button that will allow you to select for S11 (CH0) polar format to be displayed.

- Herb

When I reloaded my Linux Mint XFCE 19.2 because of screen freezing up I
installed Mint XFCE 19.3 and after a reboot it decided that I should not
have administration rights over any USB drives. So I installed Mint Mate
19.3 (yes they are all really different) and I am having a hard time
getting nanoVNA-saver ver 2.2 to work at all. Some of The problems are
where python puts the code in the directory naming structure of Linux.
Your script has gotten me very close to success. Thank you.
I just have this one error :
Python setup.py egg info failed with code 1 in
/temp/pip-build-xzpflql/PyQt5/

I am getting to dislike PyQt5 as it causes a lot of errors.

At this time I have no fix and nanoVNA-saver 2.2 will not run on any of
the above mentioned Linux distributions. But when it ran it ran circles
around and with the nanovna. So much fun.

Thanks for all of your help.
NE7LS

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 01:51 PM, Joe Kirk wrote:

I have one of the white NanoVNAs but the high level menu does not have the Config option which I understand would show me the current version of firmware. How can I find out which version I have?
================================================

Joe,
Another little gem in Rune's latest NanoVNA Saver 0.2.2 release is the manage command button (see attachment) which presents you with a pop-up window showing version and other info regarding your NanoVNA. It works fine with my 0.4.3Q firmware. I haven't tried it with other firmware.

If you haven't installed or upgraded to NanoVNA Saver 0.2.2 its another reason to do so.


- Herb

If you are updating your previously installed NanoVNA-Saver in Linux, the procedure is the same with one exception. If you try to do the gitclone, it will complain that the directory is not empty. So first I moved my current install to a different directory name then followed install steps as normal. Your existing launcher/shortcut will still work as directory structure is the same. Also you can still use the previous version if necessary by changing the path. I also have added a no cache option for pip to avoid the "directory not owned by current user" error.

sudo mv nanovna-saver nanovna-saver-2.1

then

git clone
cd nanovna-saver
sudo python3.7 -m pip --no-cache-dir install .
--
Andrew Harmon - KD5RKO

I have one of the white NanoVNAs but the high level menu does not have the Config option which I understand would show me the current version of firmware. How can I find out which version I have?
TIA
Joe G3ZDF

You can get much better than 20Hz by watching S meter, when you are very close it will swing due to constructive and destructive action on the signal. Get the S meter to nearly stop swinging and you will be within 1 Hz

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 12:38 PM, Roger Need wrote:

" … The latest version has fixed the (offset delay) bug. I just made a number of tests using NanoVNA saver 2.2 with different length cables and got good results by just entering an estimate for one way delay and then varying for best results while watching the Smith Chart and S11 phase delay. .

I also compared using the offset delay in the program and the equivalent electrical delay parameter in the NanoVNA hardware and got agreement there as well. The electrical delay used in the hardware parameter is the round trip delay so I divided by 2 to get the offset delay in the Saver program. "
=============================================================
Roger,
I'm sure Rune will be happy to hear those results. Kurt Poulsen had previously provided feedback to Rune that the "S21 phase delay has been fixed OK and the S21 group delay are still correct."

Kudo's to Rune for his usual excellence.

Crazy Houston and Chiefs game in progress.

- Herb

Herb,
That's great information that you shared. Thanks!

If you can't install nanovna saver, I recommend nanovnaPartner, which works under XP.
You can find the latest version of nanoVNA Partner v0.19 on my website (ha3hz.hu)

73, Gyula HA3HZ

It is likely that the nanovna-saver will work from python under XP. However, Python 3.5 and above will not work on Windows XP.
Try 3.4.4 and if you succeed in installing Qt5 then you are close to success.
There is WinPython, a portable python option for windows, but I couldn't go any further. However, there is also an integrated Qt5.
If I get the PS2 keyboard for my XP machine, I will try to continue with the installation.

73, Gyula HA3HZ

Hi Chuck,
i see you need to install a driver on windows 7 so that your computer can see nanoVNA. To do this, download and install en.stsw-stm32080.zip (DfuSe) or STSW-LINK004 (ST-Link) or en.stsw-stm32102.zip (STM32 Virtual Com Port driver). DefuSe or ST-Link is required for a firmware upgrade.
After installation, plug the nanoVNA connector into your computer's USB port. Use the USB cable (not OTG) supplied with the nanoVNA.
I don't know what the usb connector of white nanovna.
You can see in the device manager of your computer that it is present at COM & LPT.
If not, a little utility (USBDeview) will help you to remove the faulty driver.
To run nanoVNA-Saver on Windows 7, you must have the SP1 Service Pack installed and MS VC ++ multipack (2005-2017) installed, then the windows exe version of nanovna-saver will work. It starts up slower when you first start up, later it is faster.

Hope I was able to help with the solution.

73, Gyula HA3HZ

I agree. It takes extreme cases like that short Double Zepp , to show that in an otherwise tuned system the feedpoint SWR
really makes that much difference. In this case some 8 dB are hidden behind the nice looking rig side 1:1 seen at the SWR meter.
That is the order of magnitude saving you a 700 Watt PA behind your 100 Watt transceiver. SimSmith shows the real powers,
and that also indicates the loss. Similarly in RX direction, the 8 dB could let your DX signal go beneath the noise blanket.


A not so nice side effect of the issue is:

If someone uses a complex Zo impedance (which I think is normally not necessary) , because of (a) he might get some negative
SWR shown in a passive lumped element setup.

Or, the Gamma and SWR indicated below the generator block can be inconsistent with the powers indicated, if you compare
|Gamma| calculated from available and transferred powers with |Gamma| calculated from the two impedances using (a).

This shouldn't happen, as users unnecessarily may think they did something wrong.


73, Hans
DJ7BA


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> Im Auftrag von W5DXP
Gesendet: Sonntag, 12. Januar 2020 16:46
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [nanovna-users] SimSmith - great, not only for Measuring resonance from coax far end.

Hans, DJ7BA, wrote:

I do hope you have SimSmith. Excuse me for a non-finished answer. It's after midnight in Germany.

I do have SimSmith and your experience and mine coincide, Hans. Ideally, we want the maximum available power transfer to occur at the antenna feedpoint. However, in a very low-loss system, we may have a system-wide *near-conjugate match* such that given a standard S-unit is 6 dB, the difference may be undetectable by the human ear.

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 10:39 AM, hwalker wrote:

Try the version Rune released yesterday. That bug had been reported before
and I believe Rune was going to fix it in the next release.

- Herb

Herb,

Thanks for the correction to my previous post. You were right! The latest version has fixed the bug. I just made a number of tests using NanoVNA saver 2.2 with different length cables and got good results by just entering an estimate for one way delay and then varying for best results while watching the Smith Chart and S11 phase delay. .

I also compared using the offset delay in the program and the equivalent electrical delay parameter in the NanoVNA hardware and got agreement there as well. The electrical delay used in the hardware parameter is the round trip delay so I divided by 2 to get the offset delay in the Saver program.

Roger

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 11:58 AM, Pete Buxton wrote:

" ...I was excited when I found that it connected on serial port using PuTTY, but can't find any info (other than the help command) how to control it with commands. I suppose using Linux with Python scripts that I've seen mention of would be similar, better way to do it .."
=============================================================

Pete,
Python runs on all platforms except for Android, so if you like to rolling your own solutions then it is a great way of controlling the NanoVNA with your own scripts. On the other hand, If you prefer ready made solutions, then you can't go wrong with Rune's NanoVNA-saver application or any of the NanoVNA-Sharp variations.

One of the things I really appreciate about Rune's NanoVNA-saver is that it is written in Python and Rune makes the source code publicly available. If you are learning Python, his code is an invaluable resource of real world example code.

Back to Texans versus Chiefs. Still trying to figure out what happened to Baltimore last night.

- Herb

Not only can our ears not detect much below 30 Hz, our radios don't do too
well with that frequency and below, either. Most cut off 'around' 100 Hz.

For those who must split hairs on frequency accuracy, WWV suffers
variations depending on propagation and short-term variations (Doppler) due
to an unstable ionosphere, even in these days of minimal solar activity.
I'm fortunate in that I receive WWV at 2.5, 5.0, 10.0, 15.0, 20.0 and 25.0
MHz 'mostly' via groundwave (near Berthoud, Colorado). WWVB is on 60 kHz
and on long paths (like the east and west coasts), does not suffer the
Doppler variability that the HF signals do.

If you want the ultimate without ionospheric modulation, procure a GPSDO
and use that as your frequency standard. Mine typically runs in the couple
of parts in 10 E 11 on the 10 MHz output. Occasionally, the display
indicates a bit better (and worse), but is far better than ionospherically
propagated HF WWV. I believe AirSpy is now selling the Bondar GPSDO (no
connection).

Another excellent application for this purpose is Spectrum Lab, <
>, as opposed to FIDIGI. Softpedia
also offers it. It's freeware and has become pretty much the standard for
the VLF and ELF'ers. I use it extensively for meteor scatter from distant
DTV signals.

Dave - W?LEV

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 7:15 PM Lawrence Macionski via Groups.Io
<am_fm_radio@...> wrote:

David GM8ARV-
Yes, the ADAFRUIT white page on their SI5351 board I linked to does elude
to setting the frequency to 1ppm. I have found and knew it for years, "ZERO
BEATING" to WWV doesn't work, because humans can't hear lower than 20-30
cycles depending on age and history with cannon fire.

For those who are not hams FLDIGI is a program for decoding various ham
radio digital modes. It uses a computer sound card to display frequency
versus time versus intensity (amplitude) in a waterfall display. It has
audio frequency readout. Now before someone pipes up - "Well how do you
know that's accurate?" We don't .. but what we do know is that WWV and
it's carrier is accurate, by superimposing our NanoVNA CW mode signal at
10.0000 or injecting it into the same receiver using nearby antennas.. we
can see the WWV carrier and the NanoVNA carrier and see the frequency
difference on the waterfall display. In my case it's 110 cycles. WWV is
also at 5.0000, 15.0000, 20,0000 and there is also CHU Canada available.
So, these days we don't need a capacitor to change, or slug tuning.. Even
the SI5351 data sheet specified a crystal in the 25-29 mhz region.. That's
because somewhere we deposit a number in a register that aligns the
accuracy of the output of the SI5351.. granted to enviromental tolerances,
but for a $50 "gizmo" that is in use world wide, that's fantastic.. I
started with a US Army Signal Corps BC-221-AF frequency meter, which was
the "best you could get" when I got my 1st class Commercial Radio Telephone
license in 1971.. Cause a Service Monitor was $1000's. Now go read how to
use a BC-221 and we could meet and do better than commercial standards.
Back then we'd use a heathkit oscilloscope and display the oscillator
"standard" versus the unknown oscillator and produce a Lissajous pattern
and using a twiddle stick, get the pattern to look like an "O" and try to
stop it from rotating. In the Detroit area we were homebrewing 100.0 cycle
PL''s and used a 5:3 Lissajous pattern against 60 cycles. Detroit Edison AC
was our frequency standard..

Larry W8LM

--

*Dave - W?LEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*
*Just Think*

Thank you, Herb,

With your advice, I will try the nanovna-saver on Windows but thought I'd try the Web app just for kicks. I wasn't aware of the Web app until I saw your mention of it in this post. Searching after that, it seemed the posts that I missed talk about it in the context of Chromebook, which I don't have.
Before that, I sideloaded Google Play Store onto my 2015 Amazon Fire 7" tablet (which is Android ver 5.3), so of course, the Android 7.0+ app wouldn't install. I wish the author could make it more backward compatible. I had hoped my $50 tablet would work with the equally cheap $50 NanoVNA. :>) I've only had my NanoVNA a few days and am just getting started.
I was excited when I found that it connected on serial port using PuTTY, but can't find any info (other than the help command) how to control it with commands. I suppose using Linux with Python scripts that I've seen mention of would be similar, better way to do it.

-Pete

I am not a fan of the Si5351. It was intended to be used for digital clock generation for processors and peripherals, not for RF signal generation where reasonable signal quality is needed. Its only attribute is it is cheap, and can do low frequency.

It is the weakest piece of the nanoVNA design. It has a lot of close in spurious outputs, terrible jitter and therefore terrible sideband noise. It is the dominate item limiting dynamic range.

The spec is almost useless and applications notes are difficult to read and understand. The app note AN614 Document change list is laughable with the amount of major errors caught in the document.

Other then that it is a great chip. A technological leap above the transmitter on the Titanic ;

David GM8ARV-
Yes, the ADAFRUIT white page on their SI5351 board I linked to does elude to setting the frequency to 1ppm. I have found and knew it for years, "ZERO BEATING" to WWV doesn't work, because humans can't hear lower than 20-30 cycles depending on age and history with cannon fire.

For those who are not hams FLDIGI is a program for decoding various ham radio digital modes. It uses a computer sound card to display frequency versus time versus intensity (amplitude) in a waterfall display. It has audio frequency readout. Now before someone pipes up - "Well how do you know that's accurate?" We don't .. but what we do know is that WWV and it's carrier is accurate, by superimposing our NanoVNA CW mode signal at 10.0000 or injecting it into the same receiver using nearby antennas.. we can see the WWV carrier and the NanoVNA carrier and see the frequency difference on the waterfall display. In my case it's 110 cycles. WWV is also at 5.0000, 15.0000, 20,0000 and there is also CHU Canada available. So, these days we don't need a capacitor to change, or slug tuning.. Even the SI5351 data sheet specified a crystal in the 25-29 mhz region.. That's because somewhere we deposit a number in a register that aligns the accuracy of the output of the SI5351.. granted to enviromental tolerances, but for a $50 "gizmo" that is in use world wide, that's fantastic.. I started with a US Army Signal Corps BC-221-AF frequency meter, which was the "best you could get" when I got my 1st class Commercial Radio Telephone license in 1971.. Cause a Service Monitor was $1000's. Now go read how to use a BC-221 and we could meet and do better than commercial standards. Back then we'd use a heathkit oscilloscope and display the oscillator "standard" versus the unknown oscillator and produce a Lissajous pattern and using a twiddle stick, get the pattern to look like an "O" and try to stop it from rotating. In the Detroit area we were homebrewing 100.0 cycle PL''s and used a 5:3 Lissajous pattern against 60 cycles. Detroit Edison AC was our frequency standard..

Larry W8LM

Previously posted this to the QCX group. Don't ask why, I'm 85...8^)
...................................................................

Well, I got one of the white plain vanilla NanoVNA-H units from Walmart for $39 and my son is printing an enclosure for me. I've no intention of using it above 60MHz so wasn't concerned about shields and etc. Just something to do some basic ham stuff.

Now, I need some help.

By itself, it seems to be doing what it should do. But...

Attempting to use it with the nonovna-saver software a problem shows up. Scanning for a port produces nothing.
The interconnect cable has a typical USB plug on one end and one of the newer micro USB connectors on the other. The computer does not recognize the VNA as a connected device; it does charge the battery.

I've attached a PDF document with as much info as I could find that might provide some clues?

If anyone can spot something from the PDF info or otherwise that would provide a solution, the info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all...
----------------------------------

Update:

I found this in a reply to another message I'd posted...

<If you ordered an older model NanoVNA, with open sides, then you will need to use an OTG cable between the two devices.>

And that's what I have so off to Amazon to order one OTG adapter...

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 10:15 AM, Pete Buxton wrote:

I just opened web app on my Windows 10 computer in Chrome browser, but when I click on Connect, it says "No compatible devices found."
========================================================

Pete,
You're quite right. Other members who have tried to run the web application under Windows have been told that a special driver is required which may or may not mess with some of your other serial port devices. Under Windows there are so many other better applications that the web application is seldom a necessity. For android the devices the web application, or apk if you can get it working, is the only game in town.

If you are determined to get the web application running under windows I remember the driver is the same one I had to use when I installed my SDR dongle.

- Herb