Re: how good is a rain gutter antenna
With the maximum SWR ¡À 2.5 : 1, you must have a lot of loss in the system. Likely due to that crazy 9:1 transformer. You have a NANOVNA, so measure the through loss of that transformer. I'd suggest just feeding your gutter directly without the transformer with a counterpoise. Lay a wire on the soil surface of a good length as a counterpoise instead of a ground rod. Then let a capable manual antenna matching network correct the SWR to keep the transmitter "happy". I was once in your situation having to use a downspout as an antenna in a large apartment complex at the east side of Loveland, Colorado. Yes, the RFI was something to behold!! We were on the third floor, the top-most floor, and I ran coax out to the downspout with an ugly balun at the feedpoint. I used the small patio railing (scraped the paint off one of the mounting legs for contact) as a very small counterpoise. I had a manual matching network inside to correct the SWR. It sort'a worked, but the RFI was unbelievably horrendous! One early morning I decided to try 75-meters. OK, I matched the end of the feedline with the matching network at 10-watts. I slowly increased the power to the system. When I reached 25-watts, the fire alarm for the entire complex (about two city blocks) tripped. Needless to mention, everyone hit the parking lot with no fire present. Be careful what you do in any apartment complex. ????? Would I do it again? Absolutely!! Lunch and supper times were especially "interesting" at and around 2.45 GHz on the spectrum analyzer. All the microwave ovens became active. Don't think for a picosecond those ovens don't leak! With the broadband horn antenna, I could pick out nearly every one, even from several blocks away. Dave - W?LEV On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 2:55?PM Barry K3EUI via groups.io <k3euibarry= [email protected]> wrote:
* RAIN GUTTER ANTENNA on upper HF bands*
*
*
*I've been experimenting with a variety of HF antennas here at my new
QTH at Crosslands Retirement Community in Kennett Square, PA.
*
*I have some space limitations, but live on the first floor of a
two-story apartment building.*
*Lots of RFI from everywhere inside the building - S9 on 80m and 40m,
less noise on 20 and 10m.
*
*
*
*I have a 140 ft end-fed wire with a 49:1 UNUN which tunes up easily on
80/40/20m and not so well on 17m/15m/10m.*
*This end-fed is horizontal, low to the ground (winds among trees) and
is good for high-angle NVIS radiation on 80/40m.*
*I use it on the PA NBEMS net (3583 kHz) and on the Mid-Atlantic NBEMS
net (7068 kHz)
*
*
*
*
*
*I'd like to get up something with a _low-angle_ signal for DX on
20/17/10m bands. *
*But can I keep any HF antenna "hidden"?*
*
*
*What I am now trying is the aluminum _rain gutter_ for our building,
vertical for about 20 ft, makes a right angle turn and runs horizontally
for about 20 ft.*
*The coax attaches at the base of the gutter, near ground, to a 9:1 UNUN
with a sheet metal screw into the gutter for a decent electrical
connection.
*
*
*
*So overall, about 40 ft of thick (painted) aluminum gutter radiating
element - in the shape of an inverted L and not resonant on any ham
band.*
*Lowest SWR around 16 MHz. It looks like it might work out on the 30m
band as well (10.1 MHz).
*
*I have a Palomar Engineering (500W rating) 9:1 UNUN on 50 ft RG8X
coax into the shack (closet).*
*I have one counterpoise wire about 20 ft long attached to the UNUN
ground terminal.*
*Then a good manual tuner in the shack to an HF rig for very low SWR on
any band.
*
*
*
*Here is what I see on my Nano VNA from 10 - 30 MHz: not bad SWR
(under 2.5:1) in the shack on 20/17/15/10 meters.*
*I'll give it a try over the next few weeks and see if the local noise
is more/less on these bands, compared to my 140 ft end-fed.*
*
*
*I'm often running QRP on these bands, CW and digi modes only.
*
*
*
*de k3eui barry*
-- *Dave - W?LEV* -- Dave - W?LEV
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how good is a rain gutter antenna
*? ?? RAIN? GUTTER? ANTENNA?? on upper HF bands*
*
*
*I've been experimenting with a variety of HF antennas here at my new QTH at Crosslands Retirement Community in Kennett Square, PA.
*
*I have some space limitations, but live on the first floor of a two-story apartment building.*
*Lots of RFI from everywhere inside the building? - S9 on 80m and 40m, less noise on 20 and 10m.
*
*
*
*I have a? 140 ft end-fed wire with a 49:1 UNUN which tunes up easily on 80/40/20m? and not so well on 17m/15m/10m.*
*This end-fed is horizontal, low to the ground (winds among trees) and is good for high-angle NVIS radiation on 80/40m.*
*I use it on the PA NBEMS net (3583 kHz) and on the Mid-Atlantic NBEMS net (7068 kHz)
*
*
*
*
*
*I'd like to get up something with a _low-angle_ signal for DX on? 20/17/10m bands. *
*But can I keep any HF antenna "hidden"?*
*
*
*What I am now trying is the aluminum _rain gutter_? for our building, vertical for about 20 ft, makes a right angle turn and runs horizontally for about 20 ft.*
*The coax attaches at the base of the gutter, near ground, to a 9:1 UNUN with a sheet metal screw into the gutter for a decent electrical connection.
*
*
*
*So overall, about 40 ft of thick (painted) aluminum gutter radiating element - in the shape of an inverted? L and? not resonant on any ham band.*
*Lowest SWR around? 16 MHz.? It looks like it might work out on the 30m band as well (10.1 MHz).
*
*I have a Palomar Engineering? (500W rating) 9:1? UNUN on? 50 ft RG8X? coax into the shack (closet).*
*I have one counterpoise wire about 20 ft long attached to the UNUN?? ground terminal.*
*Then a good manual tuner in the shack to an HF rig for very low SWR on any band.
*
*
*
*Here is what I see on my Nano VNA from 10 - 30 MHz: ? not bad SWR? (under 2.5:1) ? in the shack on 20/17/15/10 meters.*
*I'll give it a try over the next few weeks and see if the local noise is more/less on these bands, compared to my 140 ft end-fed.*
*
*
*I'm often running QRP on these bands, CW and digi modes only.
*
*
*
*de k3eui? barry*
|
Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
Stan, thank-you for your input. As it happens, from the timing of your post I
was actually at the same time watching the W2AEW youtube video on calibration where he
demonstrated the Correction switch in passing, so I have an answer.
I shall go back to my friend and inform him of the need to update his firmware
in respect of the missing Correction option.
73 DE G4SDW Gareth
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On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 11:43 PM, Stan Dye wrote: Oh, and the 'correction' option in the menu is in -newer- nanovna firmware, so
if your friends doesn't have it, he doesn't have the latest firmware.
So yes, this was a valid question to ask, since the correction option is quite
recent, and is not in the older documents or videos.
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Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
Oh, and the 'correction' option in the menu is in -newer- nanovna firmware, so if your friends doesn't have it, he doesn't have the latest firmware.
So yes, this was a valid question to ask, since the correction option is quite recent, and is not in the older documents or videos.
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Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
Gareth,
This option is simply a switch that turns the calibration on and off. When it is checked, it is on.
But the main status is at the left side of the display, along the center-left edge. If there is a capital 'C' there in white, the calibration is on, and the number after the calibration indicates which memory slot it was read from. If there is a '*' instead of a number after the C, it means you either haven't stored the calibration or you loaded it from the SD card.
It will probably help you to read the "Absolute Beginners Guide to the NanoVNA" (available in the files section of this group), and to watch some nanovna 'getting started' videos on youtube - there are tons of them. The ones by W2AEW are particularly good.
Note that many of the videos were done a couple of years ago with an earlier version of firmware, which didn't have as many features. So the items in the menu system may look a bit different - but everything is still there.
Stan
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Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
OK, thanks for that reference, but how do I know whether or not
the correction is being applied? Is there a status flag?
ie, after doing a calibration, do I leave the Correction option alone
or press it once?
A friend who has a newer VNA says that he doesn't have a Correction
option in his CAL menu
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Re: Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
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Larry, what a wonderful message. I don't think this is the place to chat so I'll send you an email.
Brian
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Off Topic...
Brian,
I have fond memories of your Antenna modeling program - from back in the day.. I would load parameters and let the computer run all night. I didn't have a co-processor nor could afford the $99 then $69 for one, as time went buy. Life happened, my job took me Detroit to The DC area, then up to Boston area, then out here to Wichita Kansas, and then retirement. 24 years ago my wife Ann passed and left me a 10 year old boy to raise.. That ended ANN-tennas - a swap & shop business that has been dormant since.
However as your antenna modeling software took a back seat, I went on to EZNEC and enjoy that even today.
So thanks for the memories and the contributions to Ham Radio.
If you ever get to "cow town" Wichita, Kansas let me know I have some no fertilizer (can't afford it) no hormones, (why?) grass fed born and raised on my 25 acres - irradiated (100watts) under my homebrew antennas, steaks we can put on the grill. I also have some Canadian beer as my grandkids live in NY and I bring it back from Buffalo. Maybe we can start a beer can antenna of your design..
Larry W8LM
ARRL Life member Licensed 59 years.
past President 2 terms, VFW post 3115 Amateur Radio Club, W?VFW, Wichita, KANSAS
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Apologies if flogging a dead horse! CAL Correction?
I've only just found and joined this group and am using a donated VNA
for the first time. So I apologise if I am repeating a topic that is hidden
deep within the history of this group.
In the CAL menu there is a Correction option but I cannot find
any mention or explanation of it despite Google being my friend,
and it is not covered in G4WNC's book, "NanoVNAs Explained".
What is the purpose of the CAL Correction option and what effect
does it have on the VNA?
TIA ES 73 DE G4SDW Gareth
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Re: nano vna h black screen
Thank you, Thank you¡ that did the trick. Your help and patience is much appreciated, I learned something today, now if i can just remember it. This technologically challenged old F er really appreciates you taking the time to help. Thanks again.
Cheers
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 8:07?PM, Stan Dye via groups.io <standye@...> wrote:
?You must use only the upgrade/verify portion of dfusedemo. If you first used the upload function, you overwrote your firmware file with the content of the nanovna, trashing it before you used it for the upgrade/verify function. [The dfusedemo program uses the "upload" term to refer to fetching data from the nanovna].
So it is worth trying again with a fresh copy the H4 file newly downloaded.
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Re: nano vna h black screen
You must use only the upgrade/verify portion of dfusedemo. If you first used the upload function, you overwrote your firmware file with the content of the nanovna, trashing it before you used it for the upgrade/verify function. [The dfusedemo program uses the "upload" term to refer to fetching data from the nanovna].
So it is worth trying again with a fresh copy the H4 file newly downloaded.
|
Re: nano vna h black screen
Thankyou for your help and especially your patience.. I didn¡¯t realize i needed the H4, but same result.
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 7:09?PM, Hugen via groups.io <hugen@...> wrote:
?Please use the firmware for -H4.
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Re: nano vna h black screen
Please use the firmware for -H4.
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Re: nano vna h black screen
So.. i got the driver installed, showed up as ¡°stm device in dfu mode¡±, stm cube programmer did not recognize the bna but the dfuse demo program did, the ¡°upload action¡± part of the programer seemed to work but took only a second or two, the ¡°upgrade or verify¡± section did an erase and upgrade and seemed to finish ok, screen shot attached, still no joy. Just a black screen..
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 5:35?PM, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
?The version is typically part of the model number on the sticker on the case. The PCB is the same for the MS and SI - only the chip vendor changes.
On March 2, 2025 5:27:50 PM EST, "VA4BG via groups.io" <bobgau@...> wrote:
Thanks for the reply, nowhere on the board do i see any reference to ms,si or zk, where should i be looking? Also have installed dfuse demo but running cannot get the correct driver. Looked in the files section and on stm site but cannot find a driver for win 11.
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:06?PM, juancb via groups.io <juancb@...> wrote: ?What firmware are you trying to use?
If you are using Hugen79's firmware then pay close attention to the image you downloaded. I ran into a black screen after upgrade as well caused by me mistakingly flashing my NanoVNA-H4 with the -H firmware. The H and H4 are different hardware and their firmware is incompatible. Furthermore check the back of your unit and make sure you've selected the right hardware variant of the H (MS, SI, ZK) not doing so will also result in a failure to boot.
Luckily recovering is easy, just boot into DFU mode and flash the right firmware for your H/H4. I hope that helps.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
|
Re: nano vna h black screen
The version is typically part of the model number on the sticker on the case. The PCB is the same for the MS and SI - only the chip vendor changes.
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Show quoted text
On March 2, 2025 5:27:50 PM EST, "VA4BG via groups.io" <bobgau@...> wrote: Thanks for the reply, nowhere on the board do i see any reference to ms,si or zk, where should i be looking? Also have installed dfuse demo but running cannot get the correct driver. Looked in the files section and on stm site but cannot find a driver for win 11.
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:06?PM, juancb via groups.io <juancb@...> wrote:
?What firmware are you trying to use?
If you are using Hugen79's firmware then pay close attention to the image you downloaded. I ran into a black screen after upgrade as well caused by me mistakingly flashing my NanoVNA-H4 with the -H firmware. The H and H4 are different hardware and their firmware is incompatible. Furthermore check the back of your unit and make sure you've selected the right hardware variant of the H (MS, SI, ZK) not doing so will also result in a failure to boot.
Luckily recovering is easy, just boot into DFU mode and flash the right firmware for your H/H4. I hope that helps.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
|
Re: nano vna h black screen
Thank you, will get back to this later this evening, it did come in a case, if the version is not on there i will check the chip. Will let you know how it goes
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 4:59?PM, Stan Dye via groups.io <standye@...> wrote:
?From your photo it appears you have a NanoVNA-H4, (the 4 is for the 4" screen) hardware version 4.3, or perhaps a good clone. Did it come in a case, or was it just the card and screen? Most 'official' ones of these sold were in a case, and the back of the case had a sticker indicating the hardware version number, which was 4.3_MS for the MS version, and just 4.3 for the SI version. The ZK version is newest, and has different hardware - I think rev 4.4, so you likely don't have it. If you have a magnifier, you can look at the 5351 chip (it is the very small one with 5 tiny legs on each side) and see if its part number starts with MS or SI.
If you use the wrong firmware file, you will likely get a black screen. Make sure that if your version of STM32CubeProgrammer ends in .16, you first do a "Full Chip Erase" function before upgrading the firmware (versions before and after .16 automatically include the erase).
Regarding the firmware, you need the one with H4 in its name, from Hugen's website as previously linked, or from DiSlord's NanoVNA-D github. While it may be nicest to get the correct SI or MS version, either one will work, since they are the same except for the SI/MS initialization, but that setting is also in the Config->Expert Settings menu, and you can choose the correct one after firmware installation.
The driver in Windows 11 that Windows reports as the best one for your device will work fine with the STM32CubeProgrammer, but not DfuseDemo or nanovna-app. Some time ago I did a writeup about the firmware update and drivers that may be of help to you, see the files at this link:
/g/nanovna-users/files/Miscellaneous/DFU-mode%20Driver%20for%20Win10Win11
|
Re: nano vna h black screen
From your photo it appears you have a NanoVNA-H4, (the 4 is for the 4" screen) hardware version 4.3, or perhaps a good clone. Did it come in a case, or was it just the card and screen? Most 'official' ones of these sold were in a case, and the back of the case had a sticker indicating the hardware version number, which was 4.3_MS for the MS version, and just 4.3 for the SI version. The ZK version is newest, and has different hardware - I think rev 4.4, so you likely don't have it. If you have a magnifier, you can look at the 5351 chip (it is the very small one with 5 tiny legs on each side) and see if its part number starts with MS or SI. If you use the wrong firmware file, you will likely get a black screen. Make sure that if your version of STM32CubeProgrammer ends in .16, you first do a "Full Chip Erase" function before upgrading the firmware (versions before and after .16 automatically include the erase). Regarding the firmware, you need the one with H4 in its name, from Hugen's website as previously linked, or from DiSlord's NanoVNA-D github. While it may be nicest to get the correct SI or MS version, either one will work, since they are the same except for the SI/MS initialization, but that setting is also in the Config->Expert Settings menu, and you can choose the correct one after firmware installation. The driver in Windows 11 that Windows reports as the best one for your device will work fine with the STM32CubeProgrammer, but not DfuseDemo or nanovna-app. Some time ago I did a writeup about the firmware update and drivers that may be of help to you, see the files at this link: /g/nanovna-users/files/Miscellaneous/DFU-mode%20Driver%20for%20Win10Win11
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Don Brant sent me an .s2p file to help test my plotter. It's for an amplifier with several feet of cabling. When I looked at the phase response, I knew I had found a new poster child for the virtues of phase unwrapping.
Brian
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Re: nano vna h black screen
Device manager just tells me best driver is already installed but all i get is stm bootloader showing up in USB devices
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 4:27?PM, Bob Gauthier <bobgau@...> wrote:
?Thanks for the reply, nowhere on the board do i see any reference to ms,si or zk, where should i be looking? Also have installed dfuse demo but running cannot get the correct driver. Looked in the files section and on stm site but cannot find a driver for win 11.
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:06?PM, juancb via groups.io <juancb@...> wrote:
?What firmware are you trying to use?
If you are using Hugen79's firmware then pay close attention to the image you downloaded. I ran into a black screen after upgrade as well caused by me mistakingly flashing my NanoVNA-H4 with the -H firmware. The H and H4 are different hardware and their firmware is incompatible. Furthermore check the back of your unit and make sure you've selected the right hardware variant of the H (MS, SI, ZK) not doing so will also result in a failure to boot.
Luckily recovering is easy, just boot into DFU mode and flash the right firmware for your H/H4. I hope that helps.
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Barry K3EUI
Larry Macionski
VA4BG
