Re: nano vna h black screen
So.. i got the driver installed, showed up as ¡°stm device in dfu mode¡±, stm cube programmer did not recognize the bna but the dfuse demo program did, the ¡°upload action¡± part of the programer seemed to work but took only a second or two, the ¡°upgrade or verify¡± section did an erase and upgrade and seemed to finish ok, screen shot attached, still no joy. Just a black screen..
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 5:35?PM, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
?The version is typically part of the model number on the sticker on the case. The PCB is the same for the MS and SI - only the chip vendor changes.
On March 2, 2025 5:27:50 PM EST, "VA4BG via groups.io" <bobgau@...> wrote:
Thanks for the reply, nowhere on the board do i see any reference to ms,si or zk, where should i be looking? Also have installed dfuse demo but running cannot get the correct driver. Looked in the files section and on stm site but cannot find a driver for win 11.
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:06?PM, juancb via groups.io <juancb@...> wrote: ?What firmware are you trying to use?
If you are using Hugen79's firmware then pay close attention to the image you downloaded. I ran into a black screen after upgrade as well caused by me mistakingly flashing my NanoVNA-H4 with the -H firmware. The H and H4 are different hardware and their firmware is incompatible. Furthermore check the back of your unit and make sure you've selected the right hardware variant of the H (MS, SI, ZK) not doing so will also result in a failure to boot.
Luckily recovering is easy, just boot into DFU mode and flash the right firmware for your H/H4. I hope that helps.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: nano vna h black screen
The version is typically part of the model number on the sticker on the case. The PCB is the same for the MS and SI - only the chip vendor changes.
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On March 2, 2025 5:27:50 PM EST, "VA4BG via groups.io" <bobgau@...> wrote: Thanks for the reply, nowhere on the board do i see any reference to ms,si or zk, where should i be looking? Also have installed dfuse demo but running cannot get the correct driver. Looked in the files section and on stm site but cannot find a driver for win 11.
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:06?PM, juancb via groups.io <juancb@...> wrote:
?What firmware are you trying to use?
If you are using Hugen79's firmware then pay close attention to the image you downloaded. I ran into a black screen after upgrade as well caused by me mistakingly flashing my NanoVNA-H4 with the -H firmware. The H and H4 are different hardware and their firmware is incompatible. Furthermore check the back of your unit and make sure you've selected the right hardware variant of the H (MS, SI, ZK) not doing so will also result in a failure to boot.
Luckily recovering is easy, just boot into DFU mode and flash the right firmware for your H/H4. I hope that helps.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: nano vna h black screen
Thank you, will get back to this later this evening, it did come in a case, if the version is not on there i will check the chip. Will let you know how it goes
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 4:59?PM, Stan Dye via groups.io <standye@...> wrote:
?From your photo it appears you have a NanoVNA-H4, (the 4 is for the 4" screen) hardware version 4.3, or perhaps a good clone. Did it come in a case, or was it just the card and screen? Most 'official' ones of these sold were in a case, and the back of the case had a sticker indicating the hardware version number, which was 4.3_MS for the MS version, and just 4.3 for the SI version. The ZK version is newest, and has different hardware - I think rev 4.4, so you likely don't have it. If you have a magnifier, you can look at the 5351 chip (it is the very small one with 5 tiny legs on each side) and see if its part number starts with MS or SI.
If you use the wrong firmware file, you will likely get a black screen. Make sure that if your version of STM32CubeProgrammer ends in .16, you first do a "Full Chip Erase" function before upgrading the firmware (versions before and after .16 automatically include the erase).
Regarding the firmware, you need the one with H4 in its name, from Hugen's website as previously linked, or from DiSlord's NanoVNA-D github. While it may be nicest to get the correct SI or MS version, either one will work, since they are the same except for the SI/MS initialization, but that setting is also in the Config->Expert Settings menu, and you can choose the correct one after firmware installation.
The driver in Windows 11 that Windows reports as the best one for your device will work fine with the STM32CubeProgrammer, but not DfuseDemo or nanovna-app. Some time ago I did a writeup about the firmware update and drivers that may be of help to you, see the files at this link:
/g/nanovna-users/files/Miscellaneous/DFU-mode%20Driver%20for%20Win10Win11
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Re: nano vna h black screen
From your photo it appears you have a NanoVNA-H4, (the 4 is for the 4" screen) hardware version 4.3, or perhaps a good clone. Did it come in a case, or was it just the card and screen? Most 'official' ones of these sold were in a case, and the back of the case had a sticker indicating the hardware version number, which was 4.3_MS for the MS version, and just 4.3 for the SI version. The ZK version is newest, and has different hardware - I think rev 4.4, so you likely don't have it. If you have a magnifier, you can look at the 5351 chip (it is the very small one with 5 tiny legs on each side) and see if its part number starts with MS or SI. If you use the wrong firmware file, you will likely get a black screen. Make sure that if your version of STM32CubeProgrammer ends in .16, you first do a "Full Chip Erase" function before upgrading the firmware (versions before and after .16 automatically include the erase). Regarding the firmware, you need the one with H4 in its name, from Hugen's website as previously linked, or from DiSlord's NanoVNA-D github. While it may be nicest to get the correct SI or MS version, either one will work, since they are the same except for the SI/MS initialization, but that setting is also in the Config->Expert Settings menu, and you can choose the correct one after firmware installation. The driver in Windows 11 that Windows reports as the best one for your device will work fine with the STM32CubeProgrammer, but not DfuseDemo or nanovna-app. Some time ago I did a writeup about the firmware update and drivers that may be of help to you, see the files at this link: /g/nanovna-users/files/Miscellaneous/DFU-mode%20Driver%20for%20Win10Win11
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Don Brant sent me an .s2p file to help test my plotter. It's for an amplifier with several feet of cabling. When I looked at the phase response, I knew I had found a new poster child for the virtues of phase unwrapping.
Brian
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Re: nano vna h black screen
Device manager just tells me best driver is already installed but all i get is stm bootloader showing up in USB devices
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 4:27?PM, Bob Gauthier <bobgau@...> wrote:
?Thanks for the reply, nowhere on the board do i see any reference to ms,si or zk, where should i be looking? Also have installed dfuse demo but running cannot get the correct driver. Looked in the files section and on stm site but cannot find a driver for win 11.
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:06?PM, juancb via groups.io <juancb@...> wrote:
?What firmware are you trying to use?
If you are using Hugen79's firmware then pay close attention to the image you downloaded. I ran into a black screen after upgrade as well caused by me mistakingly flashing my NanoVNA-H4 with the -H firmware. The H and H4 are different hardware and their firmware is incompatible. Furthermore check the back of your unit and make sure you've selected the right hardware variant of the H (MS, SI, ZK) not doing so will also result in a failure to boot.
Luckily recovering is easy, just boot into DFU mode and flash the right firmware for your H/H4. I hope that helps.
|
Re: nano vna h black screen
Thanks for the reply, nowhere on the board do i see any reference to ms,si or zk, where should i be looking? Also have installed dfuse demo but running cannot get the correct driver. Looked in the files section and on stm site but cannot find a driver for win 11.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:06?PM, juancb via groups.io <juancb@...> wrote:
?What firmware are you trying to use?
If you are using Hugen79's firmware then pay close attention to the image you downloaded. I ran into a black screen after upgrade as well caused by me mistakingly flashing my NanoVNA-H4 with the -H firmware. The H and H4 are different hardware and their firmware is incompatible. Furthermore check the back of your unit and make sure you've selected the right hardware variant of the H (MS, SI, ZK) not doing so will also result in a failure to boot.
Luckily recovering is easy, just boot into DFU mode and flash the right firmware for your H/H4. I hope that helps.
|
Re: nano vna h black screen
What firmware are you trying to use?
If you are using Hugen79's firmware then pay close attention to the image you downloaded. I ran into a black screen after upgrade as well caused by me mistakingly flashing my NanoVNA-H4 with the -H firmware. The H and H4 are different hardware and their firmware is incompatible. Furthermore check the back of your unit and make sure you've selected the right hardware variant of the H (MS, SI, ZK) not doing so will also result in a failure to boot.
Luckily recovering is easy, just boot into DFU mode and flash the right firmware for your H/H4. I hope that helps.
|
Re: nano vna h black screen
reply. Much appreciated
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 9:59?AM, VA4BG via groups.io <bobgau@...> wrote:
?I should have included in main body instead of just a lower case h in subject line, my apologies for poor description. Pic attached from board, thank you for the
On Mar 2, 2025, at 9:23?AM, Siegfried Jackstien via groups.io <siegfried.jackstien@...> wrote:
?shoot in the dark .. a nano vna H ??
dg9bfc sigi
Am 02.03.2025 um 16:21 schrieb Tim Dawson: Telling us what model Nano-VNA you have would be a good starting point.
On March 1, 2025 11:12:20 PM EST, "VA4BG via groups.io" <bobgau@...> wrote:
problem started when i attempted to upgrade, screen went black, foolishly did not save the old version.. now i can read the vna with stm32, it even appears to write the new firmware but still a black screen, how do i know if i am using the correct firmware for my vna? what are the correct steps to read and program with stm32? i must be missing something, any help would be appreciated.
thanks for any advice
Bob
VA4BG
<image0.jpeg>
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Re: nano vna h black screen
I should have included in main body instead of just a lower case h in subject line, my apologies for poor description. Pic attached from board, thank you for the
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 9:23?AM, Siegfried Jackstien via groups.io <siegfried.jackstien@...> wrote:
?shoot in the dark .. a nano vna H ??
dg9bfc sigi
Am 02.03.2025 um 16:21 schrieb Tim Dawson:
Telling us what model Nano-VNA you have would be a good starting point.
On March 1, 2025 11:12:20 PM EST, "VA4BG via groups.io" <bobgau@...> wrote:
problem started when i attempted to upgrade, screen went black, foolishly did not save the old version.. now i can read the vna with stm32, it even appears to write the new firmware but still a black screen, how do i know if i am using the correct firmware for my vna? what are the correct steps to read and program with stm32? i must be missing something, any help would be appreciated.
thanks for any advice
Bob
VA4BG
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Re: nano vna h black screen
shoot in the dark .. a nano vna H ??
dg9bfc sigi
Am 02.03.2025 um 16:21 schrieb Tim Dawson:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Telling us what model Nano-VNA you have would be a good starting point.
On March 1, 2025 11:12:20 PM EST, "VA4BG via groups.io" <bobgau@...> wrote:
problem started when i attempted to upgrade, screen went black, foolishly did not save the old version.. now i can read the vna with stm32, it even appears to write the new firmware but still a black screen, how do i know if i am using the correct firmware for my vna? what are the correct steps to read and program with stm32? i must be missing something, any help would be appreciated.
thanks for any advice
Bob
VA4BG
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Re: nano vna h black screen
Telling us what model Nano-VNA you have would be a good starting point.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On March 1, 2025 11:12:20 PM EST, "VA4BG via groups.io" <bobgau@...> wrote: problem started when i attempted to upgrade, screen went black, foolishly did not save the old version.. now i can read the vna with stm32, it even appears to write the new firmware but still a black screen, how do i know if i am using the correct firmware for my vna? what are the correct steps to read and program with stm32? i must be missing something, any help would be appreciated.
thanks for any advice
Bob
VA4BG
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
|
problem started when i attempted to upgrade, screen went black, foolishly did not save the old version.. now i can read the vna with stm32, it even appears to write the new firmware but still a black screen, how do i know if i am using the correct firmware for my vna? what are the correct steps to read and program with stm32? i must be missing something, any help would be appreciated.
thanks for any advice
Bob
VA4BG
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Re: High impedance measurement with VNA?
Jim, thank you a lot for the detailed information. I will be able to do some surgery on one of the NanoVna gen111.taobao.com firmware, which I updated to 0.3.0m. I will have to check the schematics for it.
Not that I want to deviate to much for the topic of measuring high impedance of vertical, but to bring back a way to update the old technologies like the OIB meter.
"Is there a reason you need high power for the test?"
When you are one of those blessed with a 50KW AM BC nearby and trying to measure the Z of a top hat loaded vertical or inverted V seems a bit of a challenge. After filtering the BC station a lot, I end up with a 10Watts at the end of the feed. Seems like I need some power to fight back.
Patty.
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Re: High impedance measurement with VNA?
The NanoVNA doesn't have a separate Source and receiver ports, so you can't do the external amplifier, coupler approach in the Rackley paper.
Is there a reason you need high power for the test? (that is, can't you just push the mighty milliwatt from the VNA into the antenna)
What you might be able to do is sequentially make S21 measurements, switching the second port (CH1) of the NanoVNA to the various ports of the directional coupler (with attenuators as required). The challenge is that the power amplifier will be "outside the calibration plane", so you'd need to separately characterize it and then do the math to remove its contribution. A complication is that the PA's characteristics probably change with the load impedance.
The techniques in the paper rely on having multiple coherent receivers that are separately accessible, which the NanoVNA doesn't have - two of the three receivers are "dedicated".
Now it's true that you could probably go in and do some surgery on a NanoVNA (they're inexpensive, and you're collecting data into a computer, so you could get the one with the small display) and bring out the different ports you need. (basically, the inputs to the mixers fed from the stimulus, and the bridge on CH0) - you could replace the circuitry with a little board with the same input circuit that CH1 has (which is, I believe, a resistive pad and some coupling capacitors).
You could then use software (Scikit-rf in python for instance, has the libraries) to do the calibrations, etc.; using the modified NanoVNA just as a data collector.
Another approach would be to build up an equivalent system using some inexpensive SDRs all locked to a common reference - A programmable source (the NanoVNA) and 3 or 4 RTL-SDRs might work
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-----Original Message----- From: < [email protected]> Sent: Mar 1, 2025 9:22 AM To: < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] High impedance measurement with VNA? From amfone :;wap2 John K5PRO: Before the days of plastic antenna analyzers, you either used a GR bridge or a slotted line (for VHF), or just knew the SWR from a cheap wattmeter or Bird, or if you were lucky, a Delta OIB-2. This is the cousin of the famous OIB-1 and OIB-3 used by by broadcast engineers. Freq range is 2-30 MHz, 1 kW thru-power. Reads +/- 500 ohms resistive and up to +/- 800 ohms of reactance, and includes the meter amplifier for precise null And the modern version using a Hp8753C with a DIY directional coupler , 2 Attenuators , and RF amplifier: Newbie as I am on NanoVna , it will be beneficial if some can suggest how to use the NanoVna to achieve OIB measurements like the ones mentioned on the paper
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Re: High impedance measurement with VNA?
The NanoVNA doesn't have a separate Source and receiver ports, so you can't do the external amplifier, coupler approach in the Rackley paper.
Is there a reason you need high power for the test? (that is, can't you just push the mighty milliwatt from the VNA into the antenna)
What you might be able to do is sequentially make S21 measurements, switching the second port (CH1) of the NanoVNA to the various ports of the directional coupler (with attenuators as required). The challenge is that the power amplifier will be "outside the calibration plane", so you'd need to separately characterize it and then do the math to remove its contribution. A complication is that the PA's characteristics probably change with the load impedance.
The techniques in the paper rely on having multiple coherent receivers that are separately accessible, which the NanoVNA doesn't have - two of the three receivers are "dedicated".
Now it's true that you could probably go in and do some surgery on a NanoVNA (they're inexpensive, and you're collecting data into a computer, so you could get the one with the small display) and bring out the different ports you need. (basically, the inputs to the mixers fed from the stimulus, and the bridge on CH0) - you could replace the circuitry with a little board with the same input circuit that CH1 has (which is, I believe, a resistive pad and some coupling capacitors).
You could then use software (Scikit-rf in python for instance, has the libraries) to do the calibrations, etc.; using the modified NanoVNA just as a data collector.
Another approach would be to build up an equivalent system using some inexpensive SDRs all locked to a common reference - A programmable source (the NanoVNA) and 3 or 4 RTL-SDRs might work
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: < [email protected]> Sent: Mar 1, 2025 9:22 AM To: < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] High impedance measurement with VNA? From amfone :;wap2 John K5PRO: Before the days of plastic antenna analyzers, you either used a GR bridge or a slotted line (for VHF), or just knew the SWR from a cheap wattmeter or Bird, or if you were lucky, a Delta OIB-2. This is the cousin of the famous OIB-1 and OIB-3 used by by broadcast engineers. Freq range is 2-30 MHz, 1 kW thru-power. Reads +/- 500 ohms resistive and up to +/- 800 ohms of reactance, and includes the meter amplifier for precise null And the modern version using a Hp8753C with a DIY directional coupler , 2 Attenuators , and RF amplifier: Newbie as I am on NanoVna , it will be beneficial if some can suggest how to use the NanoVna to achieve OIB measurements like the ones mentioned on the paper
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Re: High impedance measurement with VNA?
From amfone :;wap2
John K5PRO:
Before the days of plastic antenna analyzers, you either used a GR bridge or a slotted line (for VHF), or just knew the SWR from a cheap wattmeter or Bird, or if you were lucky, a Delta OIB-2. This is the cousin of the famous OIB-1 and OIB-3 used by by broadcast engineers. Freq range is 2-30 MHz, 1 kW thru-power. Reads +/- 500 ohms resistive and up to +/- 800 ohms of reactance, and includes the meter amplifier for precise null
And the modern version using a Hp8753C with a DIY directional coupler , 2 Attenuators , and RF amplifier:
Newbie as I am on NanoVna , it will be beneficial if some can suggest how to use the NanoVna to achieve OIB measurements like the ones mentioned on the paper
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Re: High impedance measurement with VNA?
Thanks Jim, now I understand better.
So, I will build a LC tuning circuit and I will measure afterwards to adjust it.
--
73 s Christian F8GHE
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I've added impedance measurements to the S-parameter plotter. It now includes the one-port reflection method and the two-port series-through, shunt-through, and Y21 methods. Y21 cancels stray port reactance. The plotter includes reference impedance renormalization. You can measure a component at 50 ohms and see the response at its design impedance. I include a utility to merge files for forward and reverse S11 and S21 measurements to obtain S11, S21, S12, and S22. This lets you use a NanoVNA to fully characterize a component that may have an asymmetrical response, such as a ceramic filter.
The program is at the top of the following page. See the bottom of the page for downloading instructions.
Brian
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Re: Am I in the right track ?
Roger,
Thanks. I thought I had replied yesterday but apparently not. Well, let me shop some 0603 resistors and ferrites and I'll come back once I get something decent.
Also, my board is scrap.
1- I chose the wrong construction material when I ordered.
2- My transmission line does not have a proper return path. The strip on the next layer is way too narrow.
3- I need to remove those square pads at the antenna base points, they are for the surface mount version of this antenna.
3- My ground plane is 74mm long, as per datasheet, this should be 84mm
Perseverance, the first quality I teach my son... I'm too far in, I'll get to the end :)
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VA4BG
Christian BARTHOD F8GHE