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How to copy a PCB

Sudipta, VU3TKG
 

Hi all!
This is my first post in this group. Thanks for allowing me in.
My question is can I copy a PCB in KICAD? With a new design the proven circuit with spurious free RF performance may be difficult to obtain.
What the group thinks?
Regards,
Sudipta Ghose
Richard Webb
 

--- In kicad-users@..., "Sudipta, VU3TKG" <oneghose@...> wrote:

Hi all!
This is my first post in this group. Thanks for allowing me in.
My question is can I copy a PCB in KICAD? With a new design the proven circuit with spurious free RF performance may be difficult to obtain.
I don't know of a simple way to cut and paste between PCB projects. Doing so raises the issue of the mapping between a project netlist (from the schematic) and the resulting PCB copy, so it's not as simple as a Ctrl-C / Ctrl-V.

It is possible to use a text editor and copy module sections from one .brd file to another but this doesn't solve the reference designator problem.

What I would do in a similar case would be to make a "master" schematic and PCB layout project that contained the key elements and that had a good DRC/ERC check. Then copy the whole project to a new directory and make the changes there.
Richard
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi
I have copied a job by just copying the whole directory with a new name.
Or you could save the old job to a memory stick and continue your work on the old job.

Richard

On 13.07.2012 14:31, Richard Webb wrote:

?



--- In kicad-users@..., "Sudipta, VU3TKG" wrote:
>
> Hi all!
> This is my first post in this group. Thanks for allowing me in.
> My question is can I copy a PCB in KICAD? With a new design the proven circuit with spurious free RF performance may be difficult to obtain.

I don't know of a simple way to cut and paste between PCB projects. Doing so raises the issue of the mapping between a project netlist (from the schematic) and the resulting PCB copy, so it's not as simple as a Ctrl-C / Ctrl-V.

It is possible to use a text editor and copy module sections from one .brd file to another but this doesn't solve the reference designator problem.

What I would do in a similar case would be to make a "master" schematic and PCB layout project that contained the key elements and that had a good DRC/ERC check. Then copy the whole project to a new directory and make the changes there.
Mitch Davis
 

** Ranty soapbox here, if you don't like ranty soapboxes, just ignore this.

Hello Sudipta,

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Sudipta, VU3TKG <oneghose@...> wrote:

This is my first post in this group.
Welcome to the group! This is a great place to ask KiCad questions.

My question is can I copy a PCB in KICAD?
I get a bit nervous when I hear the word "copy". Conjures up images
of stolen homework and the breaking of licenses.

At the risk of making myself unpopular, and taking a different
approach to the other replies, I'm wondering if you are entitled to
make a copy.

Whether the design is under an open license or not, there are still
conditions that you have to meet in order to copy the board. If it's
not an open license, you would need the permission of the board
design's owner in order to copy it.

If the original board has good RF properties, it's not by accident.
it's because some fine engineer knew what he was doing. Copying
that's not permitted doesn't reward him for his effort.

Mitch.
Andy Eskelson
 

Hi Sudipta, and welcome.

What do you mean by "copy" a PCB


Kicad is a PCB DESIGN suite, you first design the circuit, then assign
the component modules, then you can start to create the PCB, laying out
the tracks and so on.

Once you have designed the PCB there are tools which allow you to place
multiple copies of that design on a PCB. This is often used when you have
a small board, and you want to have many duplicates made in order to
reduce costs. This is often referred to as panellising.


If you want to take an existing PCB and make a copy of that, then no
Kicad is not that sort of program.

I have reverse engineered a few old circuits (fairly simple stuff) in
order to resurrect some old obsolete item of equipment, but I generally
trace out the circuit enter than into eeschema and then go through the
normal Kicad process, except that I have a old pcb that I can use as a
reference when laying out the tracks.


Andy






On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:39:58 -0000
"Sudipta, VU3TKG" <oneghose@...> wrote:

Hi all!
This is my first post in this group. Thanks for allowing me in.
My question is can I copy a PCB in KICAD? With a new design the proven circuit with spurious free RF performance may be difficult to obtain.
What the group thinks?
Regards,
Sudipta Ghose




------------------------------------

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at ! Groups Links
 

--- In kicad-users@..., Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:

Whether the design is under an open license or not, there are still
conditions that you have to meet in order to copy the board. If it's
not an open license, you would need the permission of the board
design's owner in order to copy it.
I think you raise a good point in the moral dimension, but in the legal dimension there is no copyright protection on PCBs.
Mitch Davis
 

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 3:44 AM, bobcousins34
<bobcousins42@...> wrote:

--- In kicad-users@..., Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:

Whether the design is under an open license or not, there are still
conditions that you have to meet in order to copy the board. If it's
not an open license, you would need the permission of the board
design's owner in order to copy it.
I think you raise a good point in the moral dimension, but in the legal
dimension there is no copyright protection on PCBs.
Hello Bob,

I did some reading to try and find the answer, and well, I'm quite surprised.

It appears that in the USA at least, copyright on PCB layout is very
weak, existing only in the artistic side of a design. The part of the
design that exists because of utility (which is what Sudipta wants
with the board's RF characteristics) isn't protected. See response 6:



In a very strange twist, it seems that PCB layout *is* protected in China:



Like so many laws in China however, it's not enforced. Here in
Shenzhen, one can go down the street and get a PCB scanned and
converted back into design files for under USD20.

Strange world. Thanks for bringing this up Bob!

Mitch.
 

Mitch,

This is fascinating. Can you tell us anything about protection of the circuit design itself (i.e., the "schematic") in China?

-Mithat

--- In kicad-users@..., Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 3:44 AM, bobcousins34
<bobcousins42@...> wrote:

--- In kicad-users@..., Mitch Davis <mjd@> wrote:

Whether the design is under an open license or not, there are still
conditions that you have to meet in order to copy the board. If it's
not an open license, you would need the permission of the board
design's owner in order to copy it.
I think you raise a good point in the moral dimension, but in the legal
dimension there is no copyright protection on PCBs.
Hello Bob,

I did some reading to try and find the answer, and well, I'm quite surprised.

It appears that in the USA at least, copyright on PCB layout is very
weak, existing only in the artistic side of a design. The part of the
design that exists because of utility (which is what Sudipta wants
with the board's RF characteristics) isn't protected. See response 6:



In a very strange twist, it seems that PCB layout *is* protected in China:



Like so many laws in China however, it's not enforced. Here in
Shenzhen, one can go down the street and get a PCB scanned and
converted back into design files for under USD20.

Strange world. Thanks for bringing this up Bob!

Mitch.
Mitch Davis
 

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 6:23 PM, mithat_konar <mithat_konar@...> wrote:

This is fascinating. Can you tell us anything about protection of the
circuit design itself (i.e., the "schematic") in China?
Protection? <laughs>

There is only one law in China: "Don't challenge the Party". If you
remember that, you can do pretty much anything else.

If you sell your project into the Chinese market, don't be surprised
that someone has copied it and brought it to market inside of 10 days.
There is no effective legal protection, and to use Bob's words,
there's no protection in the moral dimension either, as that's a total
vacuum here. Deng Xiaoping said "to get rich is glorious", and to the
majority of people here, that's all they care about.

Yes you can make money with products in the Chinese market, and the
way to do it is to sell in conjunction with a service. If you're
giving someone a service, or an experience, and you can develop a
brand around it, it's much harder to copy.

A post from my blog:



Mitch.
 

On 07/14/2012 09:20 PM, Mitch Davis wrote:


I did some reading to try and find the answer, and well, I'm quite surprised.

It appears that in the USA at least, copyright on PCB layout is very
weak, existing only in the artistic side of a design. The part of the
design that exists because of utility (which is what Sudipta wants
with the board's RF characteristics) isn't protected. See response 6:
The idea is to make a patent required to employ the excess of lawyers in the USA.

Some here will remember Don Lancaster ( used to have columns in many electronicss magazines ) who has written the definitive advise on this subject.

see:
Patent Avoidance
Patent when?
Patent why?

Note my tag line... It isn't a joke.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Schmidt EMail Karl@...
Transtronics, Inc. WEB
3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 841-3089
Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX (785) 841-0434

A patent provides one a license to enrich his lawyer. -kps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Karl,

It looks like there's some sage advice among those links - many thanks for sharing.

Hamish
Ledbury, UK


On 16 July 2012 23:29, Karl Schmidt <karl@...> wrote:
On 07/14/2012 09:20 PM, Mitch Davis wrote:

>
> I did some reading to try and find the answer, and well, I'm quite surprised.
>
> It appears that in the USA at least, copyright on PCB layout is very
> weak, existing only in the artistic side of a design. ?The part of the
> design that exists because of utility (which is what Sudipta wants
> with the board's RF characteristics) isn't protected. ?See response 6:

The idea is to make a patent required to employ the excess of lawyers in the USA.

Some here will remember Don Lancaster ( used to have columns in many electronics¡¯s magazines ) who
has written the definitive advise on this subject.

see:
Patent Avoidance ?
Patent when?
Patent why?

Note my tag line... It isn't a joke.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Schmidt ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?EMail Karl@...
Transtronics, Inc. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?WEB
3209 West 9th Street ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Ph (785) 841-3089
Lawrence, KS 66049 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?FAX (785) 841-0434

A patent provides one a license to enrich his lawyer. -kps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at ! Groups Links

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