I wanted to report that I did what I wanted to do:
The problem that I had was that the selection filter that had been set was limited. I forget precisely which button I pressed in the Symbol editor, however, if I set the selection filter to "All Items", I can now readily edit everything in my built symbol.
Small selections do big things.
?
Cheers,
Dave F.
|
If you just want to edit the symbol so it has the correct resistor
values, that is easily done in the symbol editor, but once you have done
that you will have to update all instances of it in the schematic
(right-click on one instance of it, and select "Update Symbol").
If you would like to be able to change the resistor values from the
schematic, that can be done by adding fields to the symbol (eg
BRIGHT_VALUE and DIM_VALUE, or VALUE1 and VALUE2 if you want to make it
so the "bright" toggle position isn't defined by the field names), and
making them visible in the symbol. You can edit the field values in
the schematic for every instance of the switch in the schematic.
Regards,
Robert.
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I've not often seen symbols including the toggle... Remove the toggle graphic, and put the words dim / bright (or high/low) against the contact in the yellow box You may find that the actual contacts are identified on the back of the plastic as well, which you could include. Andy On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 10:48:31 -0700 "Dave Farrington via groups.io" <Daves.djet@...> wrote: Without a doubt I am becoming somewhat more skilled at symbols, but of course all learning is relative.
The part I'm trying to document is this device from a 1973 Volvo 1800ES:
Just a toggle switch except for the two resistors mounded inside.
I had a fright when I recheck a bit of documentation that was inconsistent. The person showed the internal resistor bands and incorrectly said in one place the 39 ohm resistor was 30 ohms. Not what the bands told me. But I couldn't revise the 39 I had already drawn in the symbol. There should be a way.
Second, I was able to show the toggle in the opposite position and switch the internal contacts, which helps the story I'm trying to tell.
So how do I revise the "Shown as Dim" and "Shown as Bright" that I now realize should *NOT* be part of my symbol.
Short of redrawing my Symbols, do I have a solution?
Thanks,
Dave F.
|
Backups are only logical & simply text editing sounds too easy. But I am pretty sure that’s the solution.
?
Thx,
Dave F.
|
I do not understand why you should not be able to change the symbol but I will give you a hacker's hint: all symbols (and files) in KiCAD are text files, just open your symbol (or schematic) file in a text editor (not word processor), search and change the value. Keep a backup and be careful!
On Monday, April 14, 2025 at 10:48:34 AM PDT, Dave Farrington via groups.io <daves.djet@...> wrote:
Without a doubt I am becoming somewhat more skilled at symbols, but of course all learning is relative.
The part I'm trying to document is this device from a 1973 Volvo 1800ES:
Just a toggle switch except for the two resistors mounded inside.
I had a fright when I recheck a bit of documentation that was inconsistent. The person showed the internal resistor bands and incorrectly said in one place the 39 ohm resistor was 30 ohms. Not what the bands told me. But I couldn't revise the 39 I had already drawn in the symbol. There should be a way.
Second, I was able to show the toggle in the opposite position and switch the internal contacts, which helps the story I'm trying to tell.
So how do I revise the "Shown as Dim" and "Shown as Bright" that I now realize should NOT be part of my symbol.
?
Short of redrawing my Symbols, do I have a solution?
?
Thanks,
Dave F.
|
Without a doubt I am becoming somewhat more skilled at symbols, but of course all learning is relative.
The part I'm trying to document is this device from a 1973 Volvo 1800ES:
Just a toggle switch except for the two resistors mounded inside.
I had a fright when I recheck a bit of documentation that was inconsistent. The person showed the internal resistor bands and incorrectly said in one place the 39 ohm resistor was 30 ohms. Not what the bands told me. But I couldn't revise the 39 I had already drawn in the symbol. There should be a way.
Second, I was able to show the toggle in the opposite position and switch the internal contacts, which helps the story I'm trying to tell.
So how do I revise the "Shown as Dim" and "Shown as Bright" that I now realize should NOT be part of my symbol.
?
Short of redrawing my Symbols, do I have a solution?
?
Thanks,
Dave F.
|
Re: Footprint conventions
That is certainly a good suggestion. Better
than battling with two offset co-ordinates for each part.
On 2025-04-13 23:37, Jorge Ferreira
wrote:
Hi
Yes I know.
I don't know how others do it, but I use one of the technical
layers to draw alignment marks of pots, LEDs, switches and other
such parts.
Best regards
Jorge
On 13/04/25 23:25, John Woodgate
wrote:
Very likely, but what suits machinery
often doesn't suit humans. In this case, the machine only
has to orient the part, but in designing the board for a
potentiometer, say, the position of the spindle centre is
almost always the reference point for the board layout.
On 2025-04-13 23:19, Jorge Ferreira
wrote:
Hi
I'm not 100% sure, but I think this convention as something
to do with automated PCB assembly machinery.
best regards
Jorge
On 12/04/25 23:58, Ian Bell via
groups.io wrote:
The Kicad documentation states that "By convention,
through-hole footprints have pin 1 located at (0,0) and
are oriented with pin 1 in the top left."
?
This puzzles me. A footprint is a physical thing so you
want its origin to be in an appropriate place that
simplifies the job of positioning it on the PCB. A Pin 1
origin is fine for many parts like ICs, resistors and
capacitors but this is very definitely not the case for
many electro-mechanical parts like switches, pots and
connectors which need to interface physically with other
parts of the design. For these you need an origin that
makes it straightforward to position the part on the PCB
such that it interfaces in a consistent way with the
outside world. For vertical pots or toggle switches for
example you want the origin to coincide with the centre of
the hole that the parts fits into. And for any
part that interfaces with a hole in a panel, for example,
you at least need the origin to be on the centre line of
that hole.
?
Despite this, I still find that the library footprints
of every electro-mechanical part mentioned above has its
origin at pin 1. Even in the create your own footprint
example in the Kicad documentation, which makes a new
footprint for a switch, still insists on placing the
origin at pin 1.
?
Cheers
?
ian
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only
If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for
certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only
If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for
certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion
|
Re: Footprint conventions
Hi
Yes I know.
I don't know how others do it, but I use one of the technical
layers to draw alignment marks of pots, LEDs, switches and other
such parts.
Best regards
Jorge
On 13/04/25 23:25, John Woodgate wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Very likely, but what suits machinery often
doesn't suit humans. In this case, the machine only has to
orient the part, but in designing the board for a
potentiometer, say, the position of the spindle centre is
almost always the reference point for the board layout.
On 2025-04-13 23:19, Jorge Ferreira
wrote:
Hi
I'm not 100% sure, but I think this convention as something
to do with automated PCB assembly machinery.
best regards
Jorge
On 12/04/25 23:58, Ian Bell via
groups.io wrote:
The Kicad documentation states that "By convention,
through-hole footprints have pin 1 located at (0,0) and are
oriented with pin 1 in the top left."
?
This puzzles me. A footprint is a physical thing so you
want its origin to be in an appropriate place that
simplifies the job of positioning it on the PCB. A Pin 1
origin is fine for many parts like ICs, resistors and
capacitors but this is very definitely not the case for many
electro-mechanical parts like switches, pots and connectors
which need to interface physically with other parts of the
design. For these you need an origin that makes it
straightforward to position the part on the PCB such that it
interfaces in a consistent way with the outside world. For
vertical pots or toggle switches for example you want the
origin to coincide with the centre of the hole that the
parts fits into. And for any part that
interfaces with a hole in a panel, for example, you at least
need the origin to be on the centre line of that hole.
?
Despite this, I still find that the library footprints of
every electro-mechanical part mentioned above has its origin
at pin 1. Even in the create your own footprint example in
the Kicad documentation, which makes a new footprint for a
switch, still insists on placing the origin at pin 1.
?
Cheers
?
ian
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only If something is
true: * as far as we know - it's science *for certain - it's
mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion
|
Re: Footprint conventions
Very likely, but what suits machinery often
doesn't suit humans. In this case, the machine only has to
orient the part, but in designing the board for a potentiometer,
say, the position of the spindle centre is almost always the
reference point for the board layout.
On 2025-04-13 23:19, Jorge Ferreira
wrote:
Hi
I'm not 100% sure, but I think this convention as something to
do with automated PCB assembly machinery.
best regards
Jorge
On 12/04/25 23:58, Ian Bell via
groups.io wrote:
The Kicad documentation states that "By convention,
through-hole footprints have pin 1 located at (0,0) and are
oriented with pin 1 in the top left."
?
This puzzles me. A footprint is a physical thing so you
want its origin to be in an appropriate place that simplifies
the job of positioning it on the PCB. A Pin 1 origin is fine
for many parts like ICs, resistors and capacitors but this is
very definitely not the case for many electro-mechanical parts
like switches, pots and connectors which need to interface
physically with other parts of the design. For these you need
an origin that makes it straightforward to position the part
on the PCB such that it interfaces in a consistent way with
the outside world. For vertical pots or toggle switches for
example you want the origin to coincide with the centre of the
hole that the parts fits into. And for any
part that interfaces with a hole in a panel, for example, you
at least need the origin to be on the centre line of that
hole.
?
Despite this, I still find that the library footprints of
every electro-mechanical part mentioned above has its origin
at pin 1. Even in the create your own footprint example in the
Kicad documentation, which makes a new footprint for a switch,
still insists on placing the origin at pin 1.
?
Cheers
?
ian
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only
If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for
certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion
|
Re: Footprint conventions
Hi
I'm not 100% sure, but I think this convention as something to do
with automated PCB assembly machinery.
best regards
Jorge
On 12/04/25 23:58, Ian Bell via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The Kicad documentation states that "By convention,
through-hole footprints have pin 1 located at (0,0) and are
oriented with pin 1 in the top left."
?
This puzzles me. A footprint is a physical thing so you want
its origin to be in an appropriate place that simplifies the job
of positioning it on the PCB. A Pin 1 origin is fine for many
parts like ICs, resistors and capacitors but this is very
definitely not the case for many electro-mechanical parts like
switches, pots and connectors which need to interface physically
with other parts of the design. For these you need an origin
that makes it straightforward to position the part on the PCB
such that it interfaces in a consistent way with the outside
world. For vertical pots or toggle switches for example you want
the origin to coincide with the centre of the hole that the
parts fits into. And for any part that
interfaces with a hole in a panel, for example, you at least
need the origin to be on the centre line of that hole.
?
Despite this, I still find that the library footprints of
every electro-mechanical part mentioned above has its origin at
pin 1. Even in the create your own footprint example in the
Kicad documentation, which makes a new footprint for a switch,
still insists on placing the origin at pin 1.
?
Cheers
?
ian
|
Re: Footprint conventions
I agree: it's a pest.
On 2025-04-12 23:58, Ian Bell via
groups.io wrote:
The Kicad documentation states that "By convention,
through-hole footprints have pin 1 located at (0,0) and are
oriented with pin 1 in the top left."
?
This puzzles me. A footprint is a physical thing so you want
its origin to be in an appropriate place that simplifies the job
of positioning it on the PCB. A Pin 1 origin is fine for many
parts like ICs, resistors and capacitors but this is very
definitely not the case for many electro-mechanical parts like
switches, pots and connectors which need to interface physically
with other parts of the design. For these you need an origin
that makes it straightforward to position the part on the PCB
such that it interfaces in a consistent way with the outside
world. For vertical pots or toggle switches for example you want
the origin to coincide with the centre of the hole that the
parts fits into. And for any part that
interfaces with a hole in a panel, for example, you at least
need the origin to be on the centre line of that hole.
?
Despite this, I still find that the library footprints of
every electro-mechanical part mentioned above has its origin at
pin 1. Even in the create your own footprint example in the
Kicad documentation, which makes a new footprint for a switch,
still insists on placing the origin at pin 1.
?
Cheers
?
ian
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only
If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for
certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion
|
The Kicad documentation states that "By convention, through-hole footprints have pin 1 located at (0,0) and are oriented with pin 1 in the top left."
?
This puzzles me. A footprint is a physical thing so you want its origin to be in an appropriate place that simplifies the job of positioning it on the PCB. A Pin 1 origin is fine for many parts like ICs, resistors and capacitors but this is very definitely not the case for many electro-mechanical parts like switches, pots and connectors which need to interface physically with other parts of the design. For these you need an origin that makes it straightforward to position the part on the PCB such that it interfaces in a consistent way with the outside world. For vertical pots or toggle switches for example you want the origin to coincide with the centre of the hole that the parts fits into. And for any part that interfaces with a hole in a panel, for example, you at least need the origin to be on the centre line of that hole.
?
Despite this, I still find that the library footprints of every electro-mechanical part mentioned above has its origin at pin 1. Even in the create your own footprint example in the Kicad documentation, which makes a new footprint for a switch, still insists on placing the origin at pin 1.
?
Cheers
?
ian
|
Re: How put tracks on a footprint
Thanks for the advice Robert,
??? I've wanted to try this solution before, but haven't found a way
in the footprint editor to add a solder mask without adding copper,
because writting in the solder mask remove the mask, so, the only
way I found is to add a pad! And, if you have to add the mask in the
PCB editor, it's more easier to put the tracks there, what I do
currently.
??? It would be great if the footprint editor allowed to assign pad
to copper, or better to add tracks.
??? Regards,
??? Jean-Paul, F5BU
****
Jean-Paul Gendner
Site :
Le 2025-04-10 à 17:25, Robert via
groups.io a écrit?:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Try
creating the big pad with no solder mask, and then either adding
the
solder mask manually, or adding small conventional pads directly
over
the parts that are solderable, if that makes sense.
Regards,
Robert
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Re: How put tracks on a footprint
Try creating the big pad with no solder mask, and then either adding the
solder mask manually, or adding small conventional pads directly over
the parts that are solderable, if that makes sense.
Regards,
Robert
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Re: How put tracks on a footprint
??? I answer to myself. It is possible to create an extra pad with
soldermask and then to modify the shape, however, in this cas a big
pad numer appears.
??? Regards,
??? Jean-Paul, F5BU
---------------
??? Many thanks Robert for this advise.
??? Working so there is no CRC error, but there in no solder mask on
the copper. Did you see a solution ?
??? Regards,
??? Jean-Paul, F5BU
****
Jean-Paul Gendner
Site :
Le 2025-04-10 à 12:58, Robert via
groups.io a écrit?:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Right
click on an anchor pad (eg through-hole pad Pin 1) and select
'Edit pad as graphics shapes' to create the extra copper
required.?? In
my experience, you'll probably need to try different variations on
this
theme in order to get what you want.
Regards,
Robert.
|
Re: How put tracks on a footprint
??? Many thanks Robert for this advise.
??? Working so there is no CRC error, but there in no solder mask on
the copper. Did you see a solution ?
??? Regards,
??? Jean-Paul, F5BU
****
Jean-Paul Gendner
Site :
Le 2025-04-10 à 12:58, Robert via
groups.io a écrit?:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Right
click on an anchor pad (eg through-hole pad Pin 1) and select
'Edit pad as graphics shapes' to create the extra copper
required.?? In
my experience, you'll probably need to try different variations on
this
theme in order to get what you want.
Regards,
Robert.
|
Re: How put tracks on a footprint
Right click on an anchor pad (eg through-hole pad Pin 1) and select
'Edit pad as graphics shapes' to create the extra copper required. In
my experience, you'll probably need to try different variations on this
theme in order to get what you want.
Regards,
Robert.
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www.avast.com
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How put tracks on a footprint
Hello,
??? I like to create footprints that allow different types of
package to be used for a component. See picture.
??? There is no problem to have some pads with same pad number. I
also found that it is possible to add copper between pads, but when
used there a re CRC errors because this copper is not on the same
net as the pads.
??? Is there a way to do what I want ? I hope I am understandable.
??? Thank you for the list.
??? Regards,
??? Jean-Paul, F5BU
****
Jean-Paul Gendner
Site :
|
On 26/03/2025 14:54, Dave Farrington
via groups.io wrote:
Symbols had been my bugaboo ever since I started trying to
teach myself KiCad. I'm now at v9.0.0 as I update my Linux
systems with regularity.
?
I? seem to remember a method in which one could copy existing
symbols into a new one for modifications. But I'm apparently not
able to do that. Plus my existing project symbols appear to be
gone.
There is a method to do what you want:
- Open the symbol editor
- Highlight an existing symbol
- Right-click on the name in the symbol list
- Save Copy As...
- Choose location
- Edit copied symbol
- Save
You can only save into your own libraries, as the system libraries
are read-only (at least in Linux).
If your own libraries have disappeared in a KiCad update, you will
need to re-add them:
In the symbol Editor:
- Preferences > Manage Symbol Libraries
- Global Libraries > Add Existing Library to Table (click
folder icon below table)
- The new library will be added at the bottom, but you can move
it up to the top of the list, or alphabetical order, or however
you choose.
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Symbols had been my bugaboo ever since I started trying to teach myself KiCad. I'm now at v9.0.0 as I update my Linux systems with regularity.
?
I? seem to remember a method in which one could copy existing symbols into a new one for modifications. But I'm apparently not able to do that. Plus my existing project symbols appear to be gone.
?
So, if I'm trying to build? the symbol on the right:
?
I've been trying to get the 31 terminal text to be horizontal, Is there a way to do that in the symbol editor?
?
I realize that I could move the 85 terminal down and have the 31 on the side above the 85. That I know I can do. The subject is actually an 1981-1984 manual transmission Overdrive Relay. The transistor symbol hides entire analog flip-flop circuits, one variant using a 4001 the other? a 14027 IC. Reverse engineering is so much fun.
?
Cheers,
Dave F.
?
|
Dave Farrington
John Woodgate
Ian Bell
Tony Casey