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Re: PCB visibility and layer questions

Aaron Wolfe
 

As far as I know, that is the way it is.? The reference designators are on the "Render" tab to turn them on and off.? I do not know of a way to include these as if they were a normal layer for printing.? KiCad just automatically includes designators in the appropriate silkscreen layers (front or back) when you go to print or plot.

Under the plot menu you can choose to plot the "invisible texts" which might solve your #3?? The plot is not directly to print though and it keeps layers separate.? So to combine them to an assembly drawing it takes a little more effort.

That is the best I can offer, maybe someone else out there has a better solution?? I agree though that this layer control could be improved.


From: randyinnc55
To: kicad-users@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:30 PM
Subject: [kicad-users] PCB visibility and layer questions

?
1) When I place modules on a PCB layout, the text shows both the part value (like "1.0K" or "CD4046B" for example) and the reference designator (like "R5" or "U12" for example). Additionally, the modules typically might have an outline on the silkscreen layer. I have KiCad set up so that the top silkscreen layer is dark cyan colored (default I think). However the part value and reference designators are in a light gray. What layer are they on? If I put text on the top silk layer ("I/O Port" for example) and double click on it, the Text Properties dialog has a drop down that shows it is on the top silk layer. I could change the layer with the drop down if I wanted. If I double click on the part value or reference designator text, the Footprint Text Properties dialog has no such option for setting the layer. What layer are the part value and reference designator texts on? When I print each layer out, these texts are replicated on the top silkscreen layer only, but if I go the the layer visibility tool bar on the right and uncheck the top silkscreen layer, only the dark cyan things go invisible, not the part value or reference designator texts.

2) A related issue, how would I set it so that the part value and reference designator texts show up on a mechanical or assembly techical layer while at the same time having only the reference designators on the top silkscreen layer? It seems really hokey to have to manually double click on every part's part value text and make set the text visibility to invisible.

3) If I go to the layer visibility tool bar on the right and uncheck all the layers, I would expect each layer to become invisible one by one. Eventually nothing should be visible. But all the parts remain. If they are SMT parts, they are colored like the top copper layer (sorry, Front), but all the top copper traces go invisible while the top side SMT parts remain. What layer are the parts on?

Thanks!




Re: Copper zone problem

 

I have just done a 4 layer PCB layout with KiCad and am trying to make the inner plane layers. I click on the Add Filled Zones button on the right tool bar and the cursor changes to the pen shape. Then I go to draw the zone outline and click. The Zone Properties dialog pops up. I select the net that I want connected to the copper plane (GND for example) and click OK. An Error box pops up that says "Thermal relief spoke width is large than the minimum width". This is unexpected because the previous Zone properties dialog says that the Miniumum Width is 0.0080" and the Spoke Width is 0.0060". I did a Google search on this error and it turned up a forum discussion from several years ago on this issue but it is unfortunately for me posted in German. Does anyone have a clue as to what this error message is trying to tell me?
Hi,

I don't know about your actual problem, but if you have a link with the
German post I could translate/summarize it for you.

Regards,
Oli


Re: PCBnew ErrType(19) Pad Near Pad

Andy Eskelson
 

zoom in on the offending area, and look carefully. You will see:
the hole, the pad, and around the pad a clearance zone. If that zone
intersects with anything else that will generate an error. You will see
the same problem with tracks when you start routing the board. This is
especially true when you angle the track, and just clip the edge of a
clearance zone.

Once you identify the problem you can then either reduce the pad size a
little, or the clearance depending on the situation.

Andy



On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:41:31 -0000
"tmortus" <tom_mort@...> wrote:

I'm getting this error on quite a few modules and am not sure why.

One of the modules is just a three pin header. Each pin is 0.1 apart.

The holes have a diameter of 0.044 and I set the shape size X value to 0.07. On screen the pads aren'touching, but, if I add up all the values between the pins in the module (0.022 + 0.07 + 0.07 + 0.022) I get 0.184 which is greater than the 0.1 inch between the center of each pin. If I subtract 0.022 * 2 (the radius of each hole times 2) from 0.1 I get 0.056. That would mean I need to set the shape size for each pin as less that 0.028 or less. If I try this I get a message saying that it is less than the drill size.

I also have a double pole relay with two rows with four pins each. I get this error for three of the pins on one side of the relay, but, none on the other row of pins and all the settings are the same.

I know I am doing something wrong, but can't figure out what.



------------------------------------

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at ! Groups Links



Re: Copper zone problem

 

Aaron-

Thanks for the speedy reply. Yes it looks like the error message is incorrect.

In the situation I described, the error message should say "Thermal relief spoke width is SMALLER than the minimum width"

Thanks.
-Randy

--- In kicad-users@..., Aaron Wolfe <a_wolfie@...> wrote:

I believe it is because your spoke width is smaller than your minimum width, although the text in the error seems to say the opposite of what it should say.?? The Minimum actually has to be set smaller than the Spoke width to work, setting them the same will still give the error.




________________________________
From: randyinnc55 <rluck1@...>
To: kicad-users@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:42 AM
Subject: [kicad-users] Copper zone problem


??
I have just done a 4 layer PCB layout with KiCad and am trying to make the inner plane layers. I click on the Add Filled Zones button on the right tool bar and the cursor changes to the pen shape. Then I go to draw the zone outline and click. The Zone Properties dialog pops up. I select the net that I want connected to the copper plane (GND for example) and click OK. An Error box pops up that says "Thermal relief spoke width is large than the minimum width". This is unexpected because the previous Zone properties dialog says that the Miniumum Width is 0.0080" and the Spoke Width is 0.0060". I did a Google search on this error and it turned up a forum discussion from several years ago on this issue but it is unfortunately for me posted in German. Does anyone have a clue as to what this error message is trying to tell me?

Thanks!





PCB visibility and layer questions

 

1) When I place modules on a PCB layout, the text shows both the part value (like "1.0K" or "CD4046B" for example) and the reference designator (like "R5" or "U12" for example). Additionally, the modules typically might have an outline on the silkscreen layer. I have KiCad set up so that the top silkscreen layer is dark cyan colored (default I think). However the part value and reference designators are in a light gray. What layer are they on? If I put text on the top silk layer ("I/O Port" for example) and double click on it, the Text Properties dialog has a drop down that shows it is on the top silk layer. I could change the layer with the drop down if I wanted. If I double click on the part value or reference designator text, the Footprint Text Properties dialog has no such option for setting the layer. What layer are the part value and reference designator texts on? When I print each layer out, these texts are replicated on the top silkscreen layer only, but if I go the the layer visibility tool bar on the right and uncheck the top silkscreen layer, only the dark cyan things go invisible, not the part value or reference designator texts.

2) A related issue, how would I set it so that the part value and reference designator texts show up on a mechanical or assembly techical layer while at the same time having only the reference designators on the top silkscreen layer? It seems really hokey to have to manually double click on every part's part value text and make set the text visibility to invisible.

3) If I go to the layer visibility tool bar on the right and uncheck all the layers, I would expect each layer to become invisible one by one. Eventually nothing should be visible. But all the parts remain. If they are SMT parts, they are colored like the top copper layer (sorry, Front), but all the top copper traces go invisible while the top side SMT parts remain. What layer are the parts on?

Thanks!


Re: Copper zone problem

Aaron Wolfe
 

I believe it is because your spoke width is smaller than your minimum width, although the text in the error seems to say the opposite of what it should say.? The Minimum actually has to be set smaller than the Spoke width to work, setting them the same will still give the error.


From: randyinnc55
To: kicad-users@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:42 AM
Subject: [kicad-users] Copper zone problem

?
I have just done a 4 layer PCB layout with KiCad and am trying to make the inner plane layers. I click on the Add Filled Zones button on the right tool bar and the cursor changes to the pen shape. Then I go to draw the zone outline and click. The Zone Properties dialog pops up. I select the net that I want connected to the copper plane (GND for example) and click OK. An Error box pops up that says "Thermal relief spoke width is large than the minimum width". This is unexpected because the previous Zone properties dialog says that the Miniumum Width is 0.0080" and the Spoke Width is 0.0060". I did a Google search on this error and it turned up a forum discussion from several years ago on this issue but it is unfortunately for me posted in German. Does anyone have a clue as to what this error message is trying to tell me?

Thanks!




Copper zone problem

 

I have just done a 4 layer PCB layout with KiCad and am trying to make the inner plane layers. I click on the Add Filled Zones button on the right tool bar and the cursor changes to the pen shape. Then I go to draw the zone outline and click. The Zone Properties dialog pops up. I select the net that I want connected to the copper plane (GND for example) and click OK. An Error box pops up that says "Thermal relief spoke width is large than the minimum width". This is unexpected because the previous Zone properties dialog says that the Miniumum Width is 0.0080" and the Spoke Width is 0.0060". I did a Google search on this error and it turned up a forum discussion from several years ago on this issue but it is unfortunately for me posted in German. Does anyone have a clue as to what this error message is trying to tell me?

Thanks!


PCBnew ErrType(19) Pad Near Pad

 

I'm getting this error on quite a few modules and am not sure why.

One of the modules is just a three pin header. Each pin is 0.1 apart.

The holes have a diameter of 0.044 and I set the shape size X value to 0.07. On screen the pads aren'touching, but, if I add up all the values between the pins in the module (0.022 + 0.07 + 0.07 + 0.022) I get 0.184 which is greater than the 0.1 inch between the center of each pin. If I subtract 0.022 * 2 (the radius of each hole times 2) from 0.1 I get 0.056. That would mean I need to set the shape size for each pin as less that 0.028 or less. If I try this I get a message saying that it is less than the drill size.

I also have a double pole relay with two rows with four pins each. I get this error for three of the pins on one side of the relay, but, none on the other row of pins and all the settings are the same.

I know I am doing something wrong, but can't figure out what.


Re: problem with double aop module

 

parts in multi-part components are annotated with suffix A, B, C etc. which is what you see (U1A, U1B).
in PCBNew, there will be only ONE component to assign footprint (U1 in your case).
In the PCB new, type T, then U1 and you will have hold of the U1 package.

IK


From: lebloa.christophe
To: kicad-users@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:05:16 AM
Subject: [kicad-users] problem with double aop module

?
Hi,
I want to make a pcb with a double aop,so i try to use in the library
the linear componant "tl072", in the sch¨¦matic it's ok, after
anotation the r¨¦f¨¦rence of the first tl072 is "U1A " and the
second is "U1B".
But after generate the netlist and open CVPCB there is just one tl072
call "U1", and when i open it in PCBnew, the module of tl072 (dip 8-300)
is missing ??!
someone has a solution for this problem, is it a bug or may be i forget
to do something ? thank's

Christophe.




Re: problem with double aop module

 

Hi,

maybe I did not understand you correctly, but your U1A and U1B OpAmps are actually in one case and so CVPCB is supposed to have only one single TL072 comprising both devices. Or am I getting something wrong here?
Regarding the missing device in PCBnew: It might be a stupid question, but did you save your netlist after assigning the footprint in CVPCB and then (re)load the netlist in PCBnew?

Regards,
Oli

2012/6/20 lebloa.christophe <lebloa.christophe@...>

?

Hi,
I want to make a pcb with a double aop,so i try to use in the library
the linear componant "tl072", in the sch¨¦matic it's ok, after
anotation the r¨¦f¨¦rence of the first tl072 is "U1A " and the
second is "U1B".
But after generate the netlist and open CVPCB there is just one tl072
call "U1", and when i open it in PCBnew, the module of tl072 (dip 8-300)
is missing ??!
someone has a solution for this problem, is it a bug or may be i forget
to do something ? thank's

Christophe.



problem with double aop module

lebloa.christophe
 

Hi,
I want to make a pcb with a double aop,so i try to use in the library
the linear componant "tl072", in the sch¨¦matic it's ok, after
anotation the r¨¦f¨¦rence of the first tl072 is "U1A " and the
second is "U1B".
But after generate the netlist and open CVPCB there is just one tl072
call "U1", and when i open it in PCBnew, the module of tl072 (dip 8-300)
is missing ??!
someone has a solution for this problem, is it a bug or may be i forget
to do something ? thank's

Christophe.


Re: wires not sicking to components

ravimiranda
 

Aurabindo


Run a search for "Kicad Tutorial" - good place to start. I'm sure its not annoying :-) it's there by design ;-)


Cheers


Ravi Miranda

--- In kicad-users@..., Aurabindo J <aurabindo.j@...> wrote:

KiCad has two ways to move components. First you already know; you are
pressing M and the component will move without their connections. The
second one is the Drag (G key) command. If you press G and starting to move
the componnent, the corresponding tracks will stay connected and their last
segments will be moved too. During draging you may also use the Rotate
command (R key) and tracks still be connected.
If you only need to rotate the component with keeping tracks just press G
and without moving the cursor press R as many times as you need.


Thats a great tip Kerusey!!! Thanks :)

I was about to leave KiCad for this annoying thing!!! Not anymore. But I
seriousy think i would end up with a question mark for simple things. So,
could you point out any of the best resources available ?


Thanks and Regards,
Aurabindo J


Re: wires not sicking to components

Aurabindo J
 



KiCad has two ways to move components. First you already know; you are pressing M and the component will move without their connections. The second one is the Drag (G key) command. If you press G and starting to move the componnent, the corresponding tracks will stay connected and their last segments will be moved too. During draging you may also use the Rotate command (R key) and tracks still be connected.
If you only need to rotate the component with keeping tracks just press G and without moving the cursor press R as many times as you need.




Thats a great tip Kerusey!!! Thanks :)

I was about to leave KiCad for this annoying thing!!! Not anymore. But I seriousy think i would end up with a question mark for simple things. So, could you point out any of the best resources available ?


Thanks and Regards,
Aurabindo J


Re: wires not sicking to components

keruseykaryu
 

Aurabindo J <aurabindo.j@...> wrote:

I just started using KiCad. But there is one annoying feature.
After i connect wires to components, if I rotate or move the
components, wires break away from them. That really annoying.
Is it so or am I doing it > the wrong way?
You probably move the components using the Move (M key) command.

KiCad has two ways to move components. First you already know; you are pressing M and the component will move without their connections. The second one is the Drag (G key) command. If you press G and starting to move the componnent, the corresponding tracks will stay connected and their last segments will be moved too. During draging you may also use the Rotate command (R key) and tracks still be connected.
If you only need to rotate the component with keeping tracks just press G and without moving the cursor press R as many times as you need.

Regards
Kerusey Karyu


Re: wires not sicking to components

 

This surprised me as well...but is apparently normal behavior to kicad-users.

On Jun 16, 2012 5:39 AM, "Aurabindo J" <aurabindo.j@...> wrote:



Dear All,

I just started using KiCad. But there is one annoying feature. After i connect wires to components, if I rotate or move the components, wires break away from them. That really annoying. Is it so or am I doing it the wrong way?



Thanks and Regards,
Aurabindo



wires not sicking to components

Aurabindo J
 

Dear All,

I just started using KiCad. But there is one annoying feature. After i connect wires to components, if I rotate or move the components, wires break away from them. That really annoying. Is it so or am I doing it the wrong way?



Thanks and Regards,
Aurabindo


Re: mod file format

Andy Eskelson
 

see:
/usr/local/kicad/doc/help/file_formats/file_formats.pdf


Andy



On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:45:17 -0000
"al.lunev" <al.lunev@...> wrote:



--- In kicad-users@..., Pavel KREJCI <krepa76@...> wrote:

Hello all,
is there description of modules library file format?
I found one for schmatics here

But for PCB/module the description is poor.

Thank you,
Pavel


------------------------------------

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at ! Groups Links



Re: mod file format

 

--- In kicad-users@..., Pavel KREJCI <krepa76@...> wrote:

Hello all,
is there description of modules library file format?
I found one for schmatics here

But for PCB/module the description is poor.

Thank you,
Pavel


Re: Pcb assembly (population)

 

I have had some PCBs made (but not assembled) from
They are located in bulgaria as far as I remember. According to their
website, they do assembly of BGA, too, but I am not sure about their
exact restrictions.

Regards,
Oli


Re: Pcb assembly (population)

Tony Casey
 

--- In kicad-users@..., "aurelcristescu" <aurelcristescu@...> wrote:

Hi. Does anyone know a pcb assembly house with low cost and bga cappability (1mm) in europe? This is of course for few protos and maybe small run later.
Thanks.
You raise an interesting question. "Low cost" and "few protos" is a difficult combination. I know of a number of companies here in the UK that will do prototype assembly, including fine pitch BGAs, but I can't say whether you would think them low cost.

Normally, setup charges for anything other than trivially simple boards would be significant. However, you could try PCBtrain, for example, who can provide a "one-stop" service (). I have not used them, so cannot comment on their suitability.

If your boards are not too complex and only prototypes, I would recommend doing them in-house; it's not that difficult if you have a microscope and hot air reflow and/or hotplate, or even IR reflow (see for low cost prototype assembly equipment). I got all my assembly gear from eBay. For small series assembly (>5), it quickly becomes economic to send them outside, though, and some of those places also have arrangements with far-eastern suppliers for a smoother transition to larger quantities.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Tony