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Re: A volte ritornano...
Devid Spagni
Opps.....
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Scusate, sbagliato MailinList Il giorno mar, 15/02/2011 alle 16.25 +0100, Devid Spagni ha scritto:
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Re: Dutch?
Anders O
Just to confirm, Kicad starts up in dutch here too. So far, noone has said that their version doesn't.
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/A
From: Robert <birmingham_spider@...> To: kicad-users@... Sent: Wed, February 9, 2011 3:31:55 PM Subject: [kicad-users] Dutch? ? Was it just my bad luck that (2011-01-22 BZR 2754)-stable on Windows |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
Note though that in many EU countries, there is a "minimum" VAT, so that
if the calculated VAT is less than say 5 or 10€, then it is not collected. - Anders Gustafsson Engineer, CNE6, ASE Pedago, The Aaland Islands (N60 E20) www.pedago.fi phone +358 18 12060 mobile +358 40506 7099 fax +358 18 14060 This isn't exactly on-topic, but the discussion might stop anotherRobert <birmingham_spider@...> 2011-02-15 17:20 >>> EU kicad user from getting an unexpected bill (or worse) when they import boards, just as Andy correctly stated. |
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A volte ritornano...
Devid Spagni
Dopo anni che non mi faccio sentire.......
Un paio di giorni fa mi ha scritto una persona conosciuta la LinuxDay del lontano 2008. Mi chiede: """conosci qualche studente universitario ai primi anni, che "smanetti" volentieri con Linux server e abbia voglia di fare qualche lavoretto, guadando qualche Euro ?""" Se qualcuno ¨¨ interessato vi metto volentieri in contatto. Oltre a questo...... A breve dovrei mettere in rete su www.seltec.org un piccolo gestionale realizzato in Python. Ovviamente tutto rigorosamente in GPL. Insomma..... non mi faccio pi¨´ sentire ma non ho abbandonato l'OpenSources :-) Ciao Devid |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
Fabio,
I didn't say you were a thief (which to me would imply intent). It makes no difference to the tax authority whether you knew you were supposed to pay the tax or not; either way to them it is "tax evasion". If you didn't pay it and they find out, then assuming they can be bothered to do so they will ask you to pay it (or pay the consequences). This isn't exactly on-topic, but the discussion might stop another EU kicad user from getting an unexpected bill (or worse) when they import boards, just as Andy correctly stated. If it makes you feel any better I only found out about this myself because I bought some DVDs from the US and got stung for VAT and the Royal Mail handling charge, making the DVDs rather poor value for money. Not only that but I had to make a special journey to the parcel delivery office to recover my DVDs. They were handed over to me with a leaflet telling me how delighted I would be paying the obligatory handling charge to save the bother of arranging to pay the VAT. By the time I left the delivery office there was steam pouring from my ears, but had Royal Mail not collected the tax for me, I too would have been an unwitting tax evader. Regards, Robert. -- () Plain text email - safe, readable, inclusive. /\ |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
Dear Robert, thanks for saying that I'm a thief. I really appreciate
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it. At least, when you do so, please have the courage to sign yourself with your own full name. Actually, I always paid every penny of import taxes in all my life. When my Digikey orders came in, I usually really enjoy paying big money of EU taxes. That's a part of the game and a cost of electronic prototyping in EU. The truth is customs here in Italy sucks big time and I don't really know why when the two orders from Dorkbot came in the postman didn't ask me for taxes. If he would have asked, I would have surely paid. But, rest assured that I never did anything to not paying those taxes so I can surely know that my conscience is clear. Take care, Fabio On 02/15/2011 02:58 PM, Robert wrote:
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
DON
The question of pcb cost came up on circuits 101
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and I gave the same answer there I dont have any affiliation with itead studio only as a customer . I have never used their pcb service but have bought components from them and found them reliable in the past There pcb charges surely are worth the risk of trying out 2 sided 10Cms X 10Cms $28 for 10 boards is what they advertise 2 sided 5Cms X 5Cms $12 for 10 boards I am planning to try them in the near future when my design is done Regards Don --- In kicad-users@..., Fabio Varesano <fabio.varesano@...> wrote:
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
On 15/02/2011 13:39, Fabio Varesano wrote:
Actually, I'm using dorkbot PCB and I live in Italy.That's because you've been getting away with evading tax, something which you've just announced to the world. Oops. Like any other European citizen you are supposed to pay VAT on imports, though it may well be waived on small amounts (and hundreds of dollars wouldn't be counted as small). In the UK if VAT is payable on incoming parcels Royal Mail retain the package until the recipient pays the VAT (and a handling charge for collecting the VAT). Regards, Robert. -- () Plain text email - safe, readable, inclusive. /\ |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
Actually, I'm using dorkbot PCB and I live in Italy.
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Never had to pay one euro for VAT nor anything like "handling" and I always had orders of nearly 100$ of PCBs. I would suggest getting in touch with James Neal (aka Lean - the guy behind the dorkbot PCB order) and verify with him what usually people pay for shipping to your country. Their PCB quality is seriously good. But, of course, if you can have the same from a local company, that's surely better. Hope this helps, Fabio Varesano On 02/15/2011 02:05 PM, Andy Eskelson wrote:
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
Andy Eskelson
Dorkbot is a very nice service if it is local to you...
100x120 is about 4x5 inches so that's 20 x $5 = $100 current pound to dollar is 1.61 so that's 62 pounds approx Now add VAT at 20% that goes up to 74 pounds, add another 13 pounds for the import "handling" and it's up to 87 pounds, and that's without any extra import duty or post and packing. What you end up with here in the UK is a cost not much different from more local sources. (87 pounds is 103 euros, so that's pretty much the same as elecktor) I am aware that with dorkboard you get three boards for that price, but that's not relevant when you only want one. The other two get would get thrown away. Andy On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:40:10 +0100 Fabio Varesano <fabio.varesano@...> wrote:
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Re: dotted lines eeschema
The colour preference you need to change is "Notes".
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I know of no means of drawing dotted lines other than manually chaining lots of short lines, but maybe someone else knows better. Regards, Robert. On 15/02/2011 11:13, Ruediger Kluge wrote:
Hi, --
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dotted lines eeschema
Hi,
if I try to draw a dotted line (not a wire) I get a solid blue line. (eeschema.pdf page 5-8). I tried to change color in Preferences -- Colors -- Eeschema Colors, but did not find the button for line. Also I didn't find a place to change the line property from solid to dotted. Any hints? R??diger |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
On 02/15/2011 01:18 AM, Andy Eskelson wrote:
The cost of PCB production has dropped, but it is still VERY expensive |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
Not to mention quicker turnaround.
- Anders Gustafsson Engineer, CNE6, ASE Pedago, The Aaland Islands (N60 E20) www.pedago.fi phone +358 18 12060 mobile +358 40506 7099 fax +358 18 14060 Considering that a pre-coated board is about 2 pounds there is still aAndy Eskelson <andyyahoo@...> 2011-02-15 02:18 >>> considerable saving with DIY |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
Andy Eskelson
Corner angles are just a layout issue, and yes right angle joints can be
a bit "iffy" in some cases. Generally I use a couple of 45 degree segments to create a turn in a track, but I have used 90 degrees sometimes, as with most things it depends on what you are doing. The cost of PCB production has dropped, but it is still VERY expensive for one-off / hobby use. To give you an idea, eurocircuits via elecktor will charge about 100 euros, and pcbtrain about 110 pounds for a double sided board, 100 x 120mm Even if you order from the far east, and manage to half that cost (then in the UK you get stung for import duty and handling charges which nearly negate the cost reduction) it's still works out expensive. The major benefit is that you can get real PTH boards, which you cannot do at home. Considering that a pre-coated board is about 2 pounds there is still a considerable saving with DIY. Andy On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:57:13 +0000 Philip Vossler <philvossler@...> wrote: I think the price of having pcb's made professionally has dropped so much |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
Philip Vossler
I think the price of having pcb's made professionally has dropped so much that it's hardly worth etching ones own boards, unless their very basic. I never liked traces to have right angles, and I liked to have tracks coming in to connector pads horizontally for connectors vertically orientated and vertically for horizontal connectors, but this is proably not very important when having pcb's etched professionally as the quality and resolution of thefinal board is much better than I could ever achieve etching my own boards. But it would allow for greater clearance between tracks and pads. As for the tracks. I think years ago right angles were frowned on as etchant could eat away into the corner, it's just a practice I've kept with - laying a track across a right angle eliminates the corner. On 14 February 2011 14:29, josh_eeg <josheeg@...> wrote:
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"Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a straight line." BENOIT MANDELBROT 1924 ¡ª 2010 |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
Andy Eskelson
Doing you own etching at home is very easy (within reason)
Basic stuff requires nothing more than a UV box and a couple of photo developer type trays. I built my own UV box out of a couple of spare tubes and an old flatbed scanner as the box for it. For etching I just use ferric in a tray. Takes about 20 mins to etch. I do gently rock the tray to help things along. I've been etching PCB's like this at home for 30 odd years. The photo etch is new to me for home use, but that turned out to be very easy. I print via postscript laser onto Hydrocopy Laser PW-F100DL film (Much cheaper than some specialised films, and much much better than OHP transparency films. I get it from here in the UK: (about half way down the page) At the moment I buy pre-coated PCB board., as I've not had a lot of luck with my own coating - it's a bit variable still. I am looking into building my own bubble etch tank to make things easier. You can buy them but whats the fun in that :-)) The biggest problem with home processing is that it's not really possible to do plated through holes. (There are some people experimenting with a process) You can use special through rivets and so on to make the connections, but obviously you do need to solder top and bottom. The main advantage is that you can do the boards when you want, and you can also make up nice tidy projects that you would have used stripboard for in the past. The cost, well that works out to be just about the cost of the pre-coated board, developer and ferric only adds a few pence to that. At the end of the day I suppose that it depends if you treat it as a fun part of a hobby or not. Andy On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:29:34 -0000 "josh_eeg" <josheeg@...> wrote: I would like to try photoetching but dorkbot pdx and batch pcb do such a nice job for a decent price that I don't even know if it would be cost effective to get the stuff and do it at home. |
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
I would like to try photoetching but dorkbot pdx and batch pcb do such a nice job for a decent price that I don't even know if it would be cost effective to get the stuff and do it at home.
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--- In kicad-users@..., "Anders Gustafsson" <anders.gustafsson@...> wrote:
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
I agree that fatter traces would be good but 8.4 or so in all the settings of freerouter or so causes drc errors makes the clearance on .5mm spacing on a tqfp package not pass clearances.
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But maby I or someone with some good documentation on freeroute and some time dinkering with it could be helpful. Tell me about thowse connectors so you use right angle ones at the edges so the connector can go up or down? If you have digikey and mouser part numbers I would take a look. Are they surface mount I need some 4 pin connectors on my next board as surface mount. --- In kicad-users@..., Philip Vossler <philvossler@...> wrote:
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Re: I am sending for prototipe boards of my kicad design can some people look?
thanks for your check I apreseate it.
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I used 8 mills or 8.3 in all the options of autorouter freeroute. My DRC cleared no problems I am not shure why someone else got some. --- In kicad-users@..., "Jim Hughen" <jhughen@...> wrote:
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Anders
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