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1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades

 

Hi All,
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I have a very clean unmodified 1959 B3 and a 122R Leslie.? The only mod is the Trek II reverb.? The only change to its sound I'd consider would be an option to give it the 'grind' sound typical in some rock settings, not the full on distortion ala Deep Purple, but just some grit when desired.
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The unit is fully functional and while fairly noise free it does have a low level hum.? I have nothing to compare it to, so don't know if it is considered 'normal'.
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I bought the A0-28 capacitor kit and the Leslie 122 rebuild kit from Tonewheel General Hospital.? I have a lot of electronics experience, so have no questions about safety, or changing out components, but I am looking for any general comments, things to look for, etc while I have the unit opened up for these changes.
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Also, I see some change in brightness from the Leslie's OC3/VR105 when changing the rotor speed.? Is this normal due to the way the Leslie speed is indicated via changing the voltage sent to the Leslie?
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Thanks,
Dave
 

I have a pretty similar set up and also prefer an overdriven rock sound. I think many classic players used various guitar amps to drive their Leslies, and I have gotten my favorite results this way as well. The "problem" with the normal Hammond closed loop with a 122 is that it does not allow us to add effects between the Hammond and Leslie. Although it can be a headache and requires some work, I think making a direct out box and combining it with a different amp and/or effects to drive the Leslie is the best way to get a great rock tone.?

The first step is to make a direct out box to attenuate the very hot/strong signal for the Hammond. I found a schematic diagram on this list years ago which worked very well. It involves a some cheap electrical components and a little soldering. You then will have a dial (to dial down the strength of the signal) and a 1/4" jack, so that you can run a line into your effects or amp. There is then the problem of connecting that back into your Leslie, by passing your 122 amp. There are various ways to do this, and others can probably better help you with the best way for you.?

I use a Carr Slant 6V guitar amp to drive my 122/147, and you can hear the result here:
 

Hi Jason,
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Thanks for the reply.? I really enjoyed the video - great playing and sounds on Hoedown.
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I'll take a look for the direct box schematics you mentioned.? I wonder if there's an easy effects insert possible at or inside the Trek reverb interface?? My first guess this would be the easiest, since it is already an 'inserted effect'?? I'll have to do some digging around.
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-Dave
 

Hi Dave,
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Glad you like the video. With the Line out, I can easily add distortion pedals (also a reverb), and I have experimented with many. It seems easier to get the really overdriven Jon Lord sounds than the slightly distorted/overdriven sounds. In the end, none of the pedals I tried with or without the Leslie amp seemed as good as a good quality tube guitar amp, at least for the sounds I like the most. Unfortunately, the line out idea works better with a 147 amp than the 122. I'm attaching a picture of the Line Out document that I used.?
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Best of luck,
- Jason

Hammond_LineOut.jpg

 

I've used this circuit on my 1955 B2/Trek II preamp and it's pretty nice. I have noticed that it's a little trebly in output so I've wondered if there's an easy way to add a tone control to tame it, or a crossover to create a subwoofer output to emphasize the bass/pedals. Of course, a way to feed the signal back into the Leslie to create an effects send/return loop would be great but I expect that that would be a bit more complex.
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Also, Kon's Zener diode overdrive circuit is floating around out the in the internet, and on one of my hard drives, somewhere.
 

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Removing the 0-001 capacitor connected from the top of the level control pot to the wiper in that line out circuit would likely reduce the treble somewhat. The effect of that capacitor would be to boost the treble, especially at lower level settings. You could also experiment with a capacitor and potentiometer connected in series across the level control pot.

On 14/12/2024 16:11, Ron Kassof via groups.io wrote:
I've used this circuit on my 1955 B2/Trek II preamp and it's pretty nice. I have noticed that it's a little trebly in output so I've wondered if there's an easy way to add a tone control to tame it, or a crossover to create a subwoofer output to emphasize the bass/pedals. Of course, a way to feed the signal back into the Leslie to create an effects send/return loop would be great but I expect that that would be a bit more complex.
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Also, Kon's Zener diode overdrive circuit is floating around out the in the internet, and on one of my hard drives, somewhere.
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With this direct out circuit, if the B3 is wired for a Leslie 122 doesn't the 'G' output have a DC bias (inserted via the transformer output stage center tap) dependent on the Leslie speed setting?? Wouldn't you want to AC couple the output in that case?
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Searching for Trek II reverb info, I found some sale listings on Reverb that show a factory (?) option for an effects insert path.? Does anybody know anything about this?? There is very little info online about this reverb circuit.? Is Trek still in business?? I'm tempted to do a little reverse engineering.
 

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In a standard 122 installation there is an isolating transformer in the connector kit, the DC speed control voltage is applied to the centre tap of the secondary of this transformer. The centre tap of the organ pre-amp output transformer is solidly connected to ground inside the pre-amp.

On 16/12/2024 02:56, david_l_manley via groups.io wrote:
With this direct out circuit, if the B3 is wired for a Leslie 122 doesn't the 'G' output have a DC bias (inserted via the transformer output stage center tap) dependent on the Leslie speed setting?? Wouldn't you want to AC couple the output in that case?
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Searching for Trek II reverb info, I found some sale listings on Reverb that show a factory (?) option for an effects insert path.? Does anybody know anything about this?? There is very little info online about this reverb circuit.? Is Trek still in business?? I'm tempted to do a little reverse engineering.
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I have the trek effects loop fitted plus trek output (low pass very usefull for pedals). I have to say that I¡¯ve not had opportunity to test many effects, and the ones I have were a little disappointing, meaning when performing I use a kurzweil controller on the GarageBand rock B3 for dirty Hammond and use the B3 stock for everything Hammond through the Leslie
Chris Suttle
 

Hi Chris, thanks for the clarification.? I spent a little time online and now have a better understanding.? This site gives a good description of the Leslie console kit near the bottom of the page:
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-Dave
 

Hi, using a Hammond A100 and a Leslie 145... the Hammond has a variable line output that I feed into a Neo Ventilator, which in turn feeds two active 150w studio speakers. The Neo Ventilator has a very nice adjustable level overdrive effect that I balance with the audio to the Leslie 145... This can give me an ultra clean sound to a 'Jon Lord' growl when needed. :)

DaveH (Deep South, UK)
 

I like that.

On 12/17/2024 8:01 AM, Dave Hawnt via groups.io wrote:
Hi, using a Hammond A100 and a Leslie 145... the Hammond has a variable line output that I feed into a Neo Ventilator, which in turn feeds two active 150w studio speakers. The Neo Ventilator has a very nice adjustable level overdrive effect that I balance with the audio to the Leslie 145... This can give me an ultra clean sound to a 'Jon Lord' growl when needed. :)

DaveH (Deep South, UK)




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Rich Reid
208-861-9263
 

That would sound great. I used to do something similar with a H&K Tube Rotosphere... I would simply go through that to get the drive, and then also go into the Leslie amp. This gave a simulated Leslie effect combined with the real Leslie, which was different but sound good.
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On Tue, Dec 17, 2024 at 07:01 AM, Dave Hawnt wrote:

Hi, using a Hammond A100 and a Leslie 145... the Hammond has a variable line output that I feed into a Neo Ventilator, which in turn feeds two active 150w studio speakers. The Neo Ventilator has a very nice adjustable level overdrive effect that I balance with the audio to the Leslie 145... This can give me an ultra clean sound to a 'Jon Lord' growl when needed. :)

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