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- We recently purchased a lot of 200, 560uF, 450v, 105?C Matsushita-
Panasonic HV electrolytic capacitors from Digikey. The boxes they
came in say Panasonic but the capacitors therein state only the
ratings and "6072C6(M)", but there's no named mfg. What's up with that?

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

- We recently purchased a lot of 200, 560uF, 450v, 105?C

Matsushita-

Panasonic HV electrolytic capacitors from Digikey. The boxes they
came in say Panasonic but the capacitors therein state only the
ratings and "6072C6(M)", but there's no named mfg. What's up with

that?


Probably since what happened after the great electrolyte espionage
scandal, they don't want any service shops pointing fingers at them
over failed caps. The only problem is, service shops buy from places
like Digi-Key. Matsushita though wasn't supposed to be affected by
this when it happened. It's either this or maybe they're sub-
contracting these out through another company, and if so I'd watch
the quality. It might pay to do some snooping around about it.

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

Best,

Will

Look for the Matsushita logo, which is a triangle with arrow points
at the apex of each corner.

They might have a three letter code or a four letter code
like MSC, MECA, etc. The "(M)" says it all, by the way.

There are billions and billions of Masushita components out there
with very obscure markings.

Hal Mandel




--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "craxd" <craxd@...> wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

- We recently purchased a lot of 200, 560uF, 450v, 105?C

Matsushita-

Panasonic HV electrolytic capacitors from Digikey. The boxes

they

came in say Panasonic but the capacitors therein state only the
ratings and "6072C6(M)", but there's no named mfg. What's up

with

that?

The first question is why would you expect the manufacturer's name to
be on the part? Does the data sheet tell you it's there?

Digi-Key stocks several parts matching that description. If you want
an exact answer, you need to supply us with the Digi-Key part number.

However, I can venture a reply....since components began getting
smaller, roughly in 1940, manufacturers have had to grapple with how
to place markings on a component with less space available. Logos
became commonplace. Today, with the standard electronic component
being 60 X 30 mils, the official mark for a manufacturer may be
nothing more than a dot of a specific color.

In looking at the manufacturer's data sheet for Digi-Key's part number
P10680-ND (One of the several digi-key part numbers that matches your
description), it becomes obvious that the manufacturer's chosen logo
is a capital letter M in a box with rounded corners.

In case you have not actually read the data sheet, here it is:



The process of engineering is to predict - create an expectation -
then measure reality and compare to the expectation, and carefully
understand why they differ, and adjust either the prediction or the
measurement process. In this case, you made a measurement (visual
inspection of the capacitor), but failed to indicate how you arrived
at your prediction (data sheet information claiming that the
manufacturer's name should be on the cap).

Gazing at a sampling of electrolytic caps I have here, about half of
them have a manufacturer's name, and half have a logo.

Z

The place I worked in college was also a huge Panasonic cap dealer.

The Panasonic caps are usually the blue ones. They make caps for quite a
number of electronic manufacturers. End up in everything.

An educated guess is Digikey received a manufacturers' overrun...

BOB DD

An addition to my last post..

Panasonic is a "Brand Name" and good old Matsushita is the manufacturer.

At the time 1979-80, Panasonic was new to parts distribution and that
account was totally bungled by the company I worked for. They eventually
went out of business maybe 5 years after I was gone.

That account could have been worth BILLIONS alone. Now Digikey also in MN
has it obviously.

FYI: Back then old Digikey was just barely hanging on as a small time HAM
Parts manufacturer. Ron Stordahl of Digi and Old Dow-Key man, both a pair
of MN hams building stuff during the hay day of ham radio. Both did OK in
the long run for the industry. Of course Dow sold out to mega money where
DIgi is still in MN doing their thing.

BOB DD

On Nov 21, 2006, at 9:13 AM, hbmandel wrote:

Look for the Matsushita logo, which is a triangle with arrow points
at the apex of each corner.

They might have a three letter code or a four letter code
like MSC, MECA, etc. The "(M)" says it all, by the way.

thanx, Hal

There are billions and billions of Masushita components out there
with very obscure markings.

Hal Mandel

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "craxd" <craxd@...> wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

- We recently purchased a lot of 200, 560uF, 450v, 105?C

Matsushita-

Panasonic HV electrolytic capacitors from Digikey. The boxes

they

came in say Panasonic but the capacitors therein state only the
ratings and "6072C6(M)", but there's no named mfg. What's up

with

that?

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

On Nov 21, 2006, at 10:30 AM, Robert B. Bonner wrote:

The place I worked in college was also a huge Panasonic cap dealer.

The Panasonic caps are usually the blue ones. They make caps for quite a
number of electronic manufacturers. End up in everything.

An educated guess is Digikey received a manufacturers' overrun...

These are a normally stocked item. ...


R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

On Nov 21, 2006, at 10:16 AM, zerobeat40 wrote:

The first question is why would you expect the manufacturer's name to
be on the part? Does the data sheet tell you it's there?

Where is the data sheet?

Digi-Key stocks several parts matching that description. If you want
an exact answer, you need to supply us with the Digi-Key part number.

P11691

However, I can venture a reply....since components began getting
smaller, roughly in 1940, manufacturers have had to grapple with how
to place markings on a component with less space available. Logos
became commonplace. Today, with the standard electronic component
being 60 X 30 mils, the official mark for a manufacturer may be
nothing more than a dot of a specific color.

These caps are 51mm x 63mm.

In looking at the manufacturer's data sheet for Digi-Key's part number
P10680-ND (One of the several digi-key part numbers that matches your
description), it becomes obvious that the manufacturer's chosen logo
is a capital letter M in a box with rounded corners.

In case you have not actually read the data sheet, here it is:

I found P11691 with: dksus.dll?KeywordSearch

The process of engineering is to predict - create an expectation -
then measure reality and compare to the expectation, and carefully
understand why they differ, and adjust either the prediction or the
measurement process. In this case, you made a measurement (visual
inspection of the capacitor), but failed to indicate how you arrived
at your prediction

Predict? I purchased 200 of p/n P11691, and those were the specs in the Digikey catalog.

...
R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

In the post-ISO-9000 world, where trackability is everything,
manufacturers' data sheets always include a specification on how the
component is marked. Given the exact Panasonic/Matsushita part
number, a visit to the Pana/Matsu website will dredge up the data
sheet which will provide a precise answer.

Since my nominal retirement, I consulted rather a lot with various
manufacturers, and as a point of fact, this is a matter that is
validated upon incoming inspection for all parts. A comparison of the
components is made to the data sheet, and if the markings do not match
what the data sheet claims, then the lot is initially rejected, for
later review. Generally, it results in a phone call to the vendor, a
corrective action request, and a fair amount of expensive paperwork.
No parts are changed, but the vendor now knows that if they're going
to ship parts that do not conform to the data sheet, including
markings, then they notify the customer in advance that what they're
about to receive is going to be marked differently....Z

I had bought out a Quasar dealership back in the early 80's and
repaired both Quasar and Panasonic products. At that time, Matsushita
really was proud of putting their name on everything including the
parts they made. I wonder why their attitude changed here though?
Especially on a cap that is large enough that plenty of info can be
printed on it?

In my first post, I was being facetious about the espionage part, and
what I figured was it had something to do with private branding. The
way it is, one could buy an unmarked cap in a marked box and resell
it either as the brand name on the box, or as one by the sellers
company just by sending it less the box. They all should have a code
or stamp somewhere to tell where they came from, but knowing how
Matsushita used to be, private branding was the only conclusion I
could think of. At the time, Matsushita manufactured virtually every
part in their TV sets and VCRs. It sounded to me that the last batch
Rich had bought had the brand name printed right on it.

Best,

Will



--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "zerobeat40" <zerobeat40@...>
wrote:

In the post-ISO-9000 world, where trackability is everything,
manufacturers' data sheets always include a specification on how the
component is marked. Given the exact Panasonic/Matsushita part
number, a visit to the Pana/Matsu website will dredge up the data
sheet which will provide a precise answer.

Since my nominal retirement, I consulted rather a lot with various
manufacturers, and as a point of fact, this is a matter that is
validated upon incoming inspection for all parts. A comparison of

the

components is made to the data sheet, and if the markings do not

match

what the data sheet claims, then the lot is initially rejected, for
later review. Generally, it results in a phone call to the vendor,

a

corrective action request, and a fair amount of expensive

paperwork.

No parts are changed, but the vendor now knows that if they're going
to ship parts that do not conform to the data sheet, including
markings, then they notify the customer in advance that what they're
about to receive is going to be marked differently....Z

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "hbmandel" <ka1xo@> wrote:

Look for the Matsushita logo, which is a triangle with arrow

points

at the apex of each corner.

They might have a three letter code or a four letter code
like MSC, MECA, etc. The "(M)" says it all, by the way.

There are billions and billions of Masushita components out there
with very obscure markings.

Hal Mandel




--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "craxd" <craxd@> wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...>

wrote:

- We recently purchased a lot of 200, 560uF, 450v, 105?C

Matsushita-

Panasonic HV electrolytic capacitors from Digikey. The boxes

they

came in say Panasonic but the capacitors therein state only

the

ratings and "6072C6(M)", but there's no named mfg. What's up

with

that?