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Re: Henry 2k4A problem
<Pull the tubes and turn on from cold. If all ok, insert one tube at a? <time and retest. If it is a temporary short, as you suggest, then it? <will surely show itself and you can determine which tube is dodgy. <Cheers, Alek. <VK6APK ##? Grid? current meter? pegged? backwards...while showing plate current is usually indicative of a grid to cathode short on one of the two? tubes.? ?IF? I remember correctly,? Henry wires the directly heated cathodes in SERIES,? and uses a 10 volt @ 15A? fil xfmr.... same as the? TL-922.? ?The problem with that setup of course is...... when one? tube is removed, the other tube? won't light up !?? ##? To get one tube? to light up,? u require a temp short across the cathode of the 2nd tube.... which won't work, cuz then? you have the full 10 volts? across the remaining tube..which will fry it asap.? ##? whats? needed is? either a single tube test fixture ( or a single tube amp like an? AL-80B)? and a? 5 v? fil xfmr.... or a 2? tube amp like a SB-220 /? L4B...with? both tubes removed, then? insert? each tube from the Henry amp...one at a time, into the test fixture. ##? watch out with using a 5V? @? 30A? fil xmfr on just a single tube...and no fil xfmr step start circuit.? ?W7IUV? fried several? ?single? 4-400's? that way.? ? Cold resistance is just? 1/10th the hot resistance..and with a 30A? fil xmfr being used....will? ?fry the single tube's cathode.? ?This is where a small variac comes in handy when testing flaky tubes.? ##? about the only advantage of running 2 x tubes? in series is the? bifilar can be sized for? 1/2 the current...? IE:? 15A? /? 14 gauge wire..... vs? ?30A? /? 10 gauge wire.? ?Which really isn't worth it when one tube starts to go bad. Jim? VE7RF? ? |
Re: Henry 2k4A problem
Pull the tubes and turn on from cold. If all ok, insert one tube at a time and retest. If it is a temporary short, as you suggest, then it will surely show itself and you can determine which tube is dodgy.
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Cheers, Alek. VK6APK PS: Murphy says that the action of pulling the tube and reinserting it, will be sufficient to remove the cold short and you'll never find which tube it was in. Ha ha. On 16/04/2019 6:33 AM, Clark Turner clark@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
A friend has a 2k4A amp with two 3-500Z tubes(RF parts). It has an odd --
From sunny Binningup Family Businesses: SP Electrical. www.spelectrical.net.au The Velvet Fox. Smart Design Electrical. Perth Interiors. |
Henry 2k4A problem
A friend has a 2k4A amp with two 3-500Z tubes(RF parts).? It has an odd problem. When you turn the Amp on, the Grid meter pegs backwards and the plate current shows 200MA.? If you key the mic about 10 times it all of the sudden goes back to 0 grid and 0 plate current as normal.
I have cleaned the relay contacts and am confident they are working I have replaced the Stud mount Zener diode as I had several spares. The amp will run the rest of the night at full power. This condition ONLY happens when you first turn amp on cold. It will never return until amp is off over night and turned back on next day. Possible Grid short on tube that is clearing up after some current is on it?? Any suggestions? C -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |
Re: Bias Boards
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
On 4/14/2019 7:00 PM,
mikflathead@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
? -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |
Re: Bias Boards
No power control on this rig Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE device ------ Original message------ From: r norris Date: Sun, Apr 14, 2019 7:03 PM To: ham_amplifiers@...; Cc: clark@...; Subject:Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards Do you have the radio power all the way up¡ 100 watts, then set the external knob to 98 or lower?
Otherwise you are still dancing with the rig¡¯s internal ALC.
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Re: Bias Boards
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDo you have the radio power all the way up¡ 100 watts, then set the external knob to 98 or lower?Otherwise you are still dancing with the rig¡¯s internal ALC.
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Re: Bias Boards
What bias board are you using? Mike
-----Original Message----- From: Alek Petkovic vk6apk@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers Sent: Sun, Apr 14, 2019 9:29 pm Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards
?
Well done Clark and Jim.
Thanks for the follow up and good information. 73, Alek. VK6APK On 15/04/2019 5:06 AM, Clark Turner clark@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
-- From sunny Binningup Family Businesses: SP Electrical. The Velvet Fox. Smart Design Electrical. Perth Interiors. |
Re: Bias Boards
What bias board are you using? Mike
-----Original Message----- From: Alek Petkovic vk6apk@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers Sent: Sun, Apr 14, 2019 9:29 pm Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards
?
Well done Clark and Jim.
Thanks for the follow up and good information. 73, Alek. VK6APK On 15/04/2019 5:06 AM, Clark Turner clark@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
-- From sunny Binningup Family Businesses: SP Electrical. The Velvet Fox. Smart Design Electrical. Perth Interiors. |
Re: Bias Boards
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýWell done Clark and Jim.Thanks for the follow up and good information. 73, Alek. VK6APK On 15/04/2019 5:06 AM, Clark Turner clark@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
-- From sunny Binningup Family Businesses: SP Electrical. The Velvet Fox. Smart Design Electrical. Perth Interiors. |
Re: Bias Boards
Carl, that is how I am using the ALC now. Small box with pot and 9 volt. It spikes up on first word but then holds steady at what ever I have it set at. Maybe need to scope the ALC line to see why.? Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE device ------ Original message------ From: 'Carl' km1h@... [ham_amplifiers] Date: Sun, Apr 14, 2019 5:35 PM To: ham_amplifiers@...; Cc: clark@...; Subject:Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards
?
That works well with the Kenwood hybrids also. I believe I use a 25K pot on |
Re: Bias Boards
That works well with the Kenwood hybrids also. I believe I use a 25K pot on my 4 TS-830's (3 drive VHF to microwave transverters and the other is at the amp service bench) but would have to look as it has been a long time. Anyway the idea was to get a smoother adjustment so really isnt critical....just preference.
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There should be little IMD difference over a wide bias range with most tubes in good condition. As you go below 100ma you are deeper into Class B and there is a point where the IMD goes up. I use the Deep Class B for AM linears, especially where the PS is marginal as well as some tubes such as in a Clipperton L. I set the bias for around a 2 dB decrease in IMD3/5/7 using the in line SA via a Bird tap and it is never heard on a busy or noisy band. OTOH the 4X 572B's now show just a little color on voice peaks instead of quite red just from idle current. I do not use any audio processing other than some mods in the various vintage TX to expand the bandwidth and make the most out of an unampliied D-104.. Carl ----- Original Message -----
From: r norris rkmr15203@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers@... Cc: clark@... Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards On Apr 14, 2019, at 17:06, Clark Turner clark@... [ham_amplifiers] <ham_amplifiers@...> wrote: The FT101 has a huge ALC over shoot. If I use the ALC it will smack 1500 watts on the first syllable and then fall to what ever I set ALC at (example), 1000 watts. I need to look into this issue or maybe just ignore it. Nobody seems to be able to tell on the air. You get the overshoot because the rig has to develop the ALC after keyup. 100k pot, 9 volt battery, plus to ground, neg from pot to ALC jack. Set power out with pot. No overshoot, since ¡°ALC¡± voltage is "there" before keyup. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. |
Re: Bias Boards
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
You get the overshoot because the rig has to develop the ALC after keyup. 100k pot, 9 volt battery, plus to ground, neg from pot to ALC jack. Set power out with pot.? No overshoot, since ¡°ALC¡± voltage is "there" before keyup. |
Re: Bias Boards
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI got the Bias board working correctly. Thanks for Jim for the
support on the phone.? The instructions should be updated for the
board. It suggests adding a 10K pot in series with the factory
board mounted pot. This places the two pots in series with a
100ohm so there is no way to get the full adjustment range. I
ended up removing the factory trim pot and running the wires to my
panel mounted pot to the board directly. This got me the 9.2K
total at the board.?? Prior bias was measured at -3.5 volts and
reveals why I could never get below 200MA. Now, I can vary from 300 MA down to 0MA in a smooth action. The
AMP runs much cooler. I found gain drops slightly at 100MA or below. This is fine as
the amp makes 1450 watts pep, the lowest my FT101 will load.? I
plan to run a two tone test to the LP700 to get some figures of
IMD at various Bias settings. The FT101 has a huge ALC over shoot. If I use the ALC it will
smack 1500 watts on the first syllable and then fall to what ever
I set ALC at (example), 1000 watts.? I need to look into this
issue or maybe just ignore it. Nobody seems to be able to tell on
the air. I would really like to get this down to 1000 watts pep. I use
this station on 75 meters nightly and sometimes we talk for an
hour or two. Notes on installing this board: ?You can run the board across the 50K resistor.? It makes no
difference in bias adjustment. This way the 50K is always inline.
Might be safer if the board fails?? You would just drop to cut
off. You can run the board in the center tap line so the board is always in line and the 50K is switched.? The board does have an MOV so if board fails it will be in line. Jim, Anything you want to add? C On 4/9/2019 9:56 AM, Clark Turner
clark@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
? -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |
Re: Bias Boards
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThat is the Plan. Its a major pain to get to the board as the
Deck has to come off the Cabinet.? Maybe later today I can take a
look inside. The tube has full output power and is the same as the
other amp.? The two hole amp is an interesting design where I can
run the left tube, The right tube or both.? C On 4/9/2019 6:26 PM, jim.thom@...
[ham_amplifiers] wrote:
? -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |
Re: Bias Boards
Get inside the? single 3-1000Z? amp....and? measure the? actual? voltage? being applied.? It may well be a simple thing,? where you have it hooked? up incorrectly, and have diverted a? huge chunk of that? 39? volts? in another direction....leaving very little V left for actual? biasing purposes.? ? I suspect you have? some voltage divider action taking place some where..and quite possibly on the board itself..or a combo of? board and? external to the board.??
Since you also have a 2 x 3-1000Z amp,? you could also use the? tube from the? single? 3-1000 Amp....and stick it into the 2 hole amp.... to verify the? tube is just fine.? ( which it probably is).? That board has? bucket loads of bias to do the job three times over.? ? Jim? VE7RF |
Re: Bias Boards
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThat is a great question.? Its a variable supply and I just
started off 0 and turned up until I had it set. I would need to
measure it.? I read the Datasheet. I would think -15 to -20 range
would do it at higher B plus. On my BTI single tube amp the board
is rated up to 39 volts and its up all the way.? I am thinking
that the board itself has a problem or I have hooked it up wrong
some how. I need to remove the deck off the Cabinet and have a
look now.? 225MA idle is just making to much heat. C On 4/9/2019 11:23 AM,
mikflathead@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
? -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |
Re: Bias Boards
So how much voltage does the supply for the dual 3-1000 show at 100 ma per tube?
?
? -----Original Message----- From: Clark Turner clark@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers Sent: Tue, Apr 9, 2019 2:13 pm Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards
?
I have four tubes and also several 4-1000 tubes.? Two of the
3-1000Z are brand new out of the box. All make the same current
and power.? I know the B plus is correct, I used my Fluke and it
reads 3950 volts at full load.? My Current meter is a new meter
with a typical circuit.? The Bias board is working as I can vary
it up and down with the remote Pot. All the way up the board
claims 39 volts and that is still 225MA. Maybe I need to run some
measurements. Maybe I will just make a traditional Bias supply.?
That is what I am using on my Two X 3-1000Z amp. I run it up to
7000 volts on the plates and still have range to get idle current
down to 100 MA a tube.
C
On 4/8/2019 12:08 PM, 'Carl'
km1h@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
? -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |
Re: Bias Boards
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI have four tubes and also several 4-1000 tubes.? Two of the
3-1000Z are brand new out of the box. All make the same current
and power.? I know the B plus is correct, I used my Fluke and it
reads 3950 volts at full load.? My Current meter is a new meter
with a typical circuit.? The Bias board is working as I can vary
it up and down with the remote Pot. All the way up the board
claims 39 volts and that is still 225MA. Maybe I need to run some
measurements. Maybe I will just make a traditional Bias supply.?
That is what I am using on my Two X 3-1000Z amp. I run it up to
7000 volts on the plates and still have range to get idle current
down to 100 MA a tube. C On 4/8/2019 12:08 PM, 'Carl'
km1h@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
? -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |
Re: Bias Boards
It is hard to argue with the Eimac spec sheet and curves so I dont know what Clark has there.
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I wouldnt expect a damaged tube to exihibit such results but........ Is there any sign of internal gas (blue glow) when testing and does the anode show color with those high idle currents? Carl ----- Original Message -----
From: Alek Petkovic vk6apk@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers@... Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards Yes, I can see your confusion. I would have thought that Carl's estimate of 13V would have been pretty close to the mark, as the circuit I have for a 3-1000Z running at 3kV, has 0V bias and idles at 180mA. Your 39V and 225mA idling current seems way out of whack but I can't dispute what you are seeing. For now, your suggested solution of adding 24V into the bias line sounds ok but as I have not had any experience with the 3-1000Z, I'll bow to someone who has been there and done it. Cheers and good luck. Alek. VK6APK On 8/04/2019 10:41 AM, 'clark@...' clark@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote: I understand. But he suggested -13 volts. So I am confused Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE device ------ Original message------ From: Alek Petkovic vk6apk@... [ham_amplifiers] Date: Sun, Apr 7, 2019 6:48 PM To: ham_amplifiers@...; Cc: Subject:Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards Carl was talking 100mA ZSAC, not -100V bias voltage. Cheers, Alek. VK6APK On 8/04/2019 9:41 AM, 'clark@...' clark@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote: I understand the differences in class and imd. However. 13 volts won't cut the tube off to 100 ma. I have the amp here with the triode board all the way up at 225 ma. Turn it down and its 300 ma. -100 suggests the class c bias point. At 39, what the bias board is maxed is 225. Would 50 or 60 volts not be required? Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE device ------ Original message------ From: 'Carl' km1h@... [ham_amplifiers] Date: Sun, Apr 7, 2019 6:17 PM To: ham_amplifiers@yah oogroups.com; Cc: Subject:Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards Class C bias means zero Ip in standby, my comment was right out of the Eimac tube manual for Class B modulators and 100 ma PER tube idle current. Class B is class B no matter what your using it for.and the tube curves will show you a wide range of bias within that Class. I do that with AM linears such as a Clipperton L and run it deeper into B than for SSB. Actual measured IMD barely changes but the wasted dissipation drops way down to the point I can run 1000W PEP out with just 572B color on voice peaks. Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: Clark Turner clark@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers@... Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards Thanks for the reply Carl. I am confused as to your suggestion to use -13 volts. I am using -39 now and its still 225 MA at 4000 volts. The Sheet lists -100 to be Class C bias. C On 4/7/2019 11:48 AM, 'Carl' km1h@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote: My experience with the Alpha and a few later EBS circuits is that the switching transient spike goes out over the air. Several have commented the same about the AL-80B circuit and they have removed it, but I havent had one in here recently to test. The 3-1000Z is fine with 100 ma idle at 5000V in Class B and ~ -13V bias. Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: Clark Turner clark@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers@... Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 12:54 PM Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Bias Boards I have a BTI LK2000(single 3-1000Z) that I have rebuilt a few years ago. The Power supply had previously been changed to a traditional Choke input from the factory doubler supply. The transformer was 120 volt primary and was limited. I obtained a Hypersil transformer with 220 volt primary. Its a 1.5 amp model. I used a replacement Diode board with metering circuit for an ALpha 77 I found on ebay along with a 40MFD Oil cap. TO finish it off I used a large contactor. The amp runs 4000 volts(low tap) on the plate as measured and had 350MA of idle. I used Tony's Triode bias board and that got me down to 225MA with the board turned up max. The amp runs HOT and requires a second fan on top of the cabinet to extract heat. I planned to alter the Bias board with a 20 to 24 volt 1 watt Zener diode as described on the website. This should get me 50 something volts of bias to cut the idle current back more. 100ma? Has anyone used the EBS-1 bias board? It seems that this approach cuts the tube off with no drive and has no bias as the drive comes up. I wonder if this is a worth while system? Any drawbacks? I do plan to upgrade the blower motor for increased air flow but cannot find a blower with the motor on the same side as this one. It is no longer available. I plan to retrofit something in the amp while I am working on the bias. C --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 -- From sunny Binningup Family Businesses: SP Electrical. www.spelectrical.net.au The Velvet Fox. Smart Design Electrical. Perth Interiors. -- From sunny Binningup Family Businesses: SP Electrical. www.spelectrical.net.au The Velvet Fox. Smart Design Electrical. Perth Interiors. |