开云体育

Well I do have responses for the comments.

I do currently own a 3K-A. Have had virtually all of them in the past.
Also have owned an L4B, Swan Mark II never SB-220 or TL-922 however I've
worked on almost everything at one time or another.

The problem with Henry's and Heath's design is the SOCKETS. The Johnson
socket mounted below the chassis on 4 bent metal brackets is the problem.

The little holes in the Johnson socket were matched to the 4-XX series of
tubes. 4-65, 4-125, 4-250 and were designed before they developed tubes the
size of 4-400, 3-400, 3-500. There is inadequate cooling around the bases
when using these sockets with the larger tubes.

I've seen Eimac 3-500's with the letters burned off one side in amps like
the SB-220.

The correct Eimac air system sockets REALLY move air through them in all the
right places. For instance the 410's and 510's have a collar where you
actually hook up ducted air to the base.

Back in 1970's it was recommended if you weren't using ducted air, that you
disassemble the sockets and hacksaw off the collar to allow even better
airflow during pressurized chassis operations.

My Ph.D. is in Physics, I spent a lot of my career after college in the
computer industry doing chassis design for a computer company. Basically
trying to put 10 pounds of electronic maird in a 5 pound box and cool it.

In the lab we had a lot of temp probes in computers.

This was all PRE-IBM PC... Pc designs actually are some of the worst cooled
boxes around. :-( SO... The next problem with ham designs is the stupid
covers on the amps. Drilling holes to make the boxes look pretty. BAD
airflow. The best would be cut large holes with metal screens barely
blocking the airflow path. It just doesn't look as pretty. A Heath cover
is a piece of junk. They paint more of the hole area closed than have
open...

Though poorly implemented the Alpha 77D-S was on the right track. The
double fan in the Henry 4K-U was very good at moving the heated air out of
the RF compartment.

My 77DD design utilized a DOUBLE computer style blower, one pressurized a
small cabinet compartment below the 8877's across the rear of the RF section
and the other blower blew air across the tank and vented across the whole
rear of the RF compartment not restricting airflow.

This cooled all tank components and removed the heated air.

A 3K will behave itself nicely when run below absolute max power.

A tube glass envelope will cool well when there is flow around the tube.
The base seals and the top are the most critical locations. We know this
because Eimac tells us so.

Since after my first 3-500 amp.... I have always used the correct Eimac
sockets only.

As far as the other comment regarding moving air too fast... You cant move
the air too fast by a glass envelope. Its not like the thermodynamics in
Air/Water coolers (Like car radiators) where you can pass water too quickly
to transfer the heat.

AIR is a much less dense and easily warmed medium.

The only limit in Amplifiers as we know it are the retention of the tube in
the socket. CRANK UP THE BLOWER UNTIL THE TUBE POPS OUT... Or, what you can
tolerate for noise.

The thing is to get away from cheap replacement parts when building
amplifiers. Yes I've used Colman lamp chimneys in a project or two. But
they were not max effort amplifiers. That cute little turn in at the top of
the Eimac chimney is to cool the anode seal.

Johnson sockets are for beginners and manufacturers who are trying to shave
bucks from a product and don't give a hoot how good the thing works.

Henry could have scaled down the blower noise on the 3 series amps by a
cover redesign raising the cover height slightly and removing holes, by
using the correct sockets, chimneys and correct plate caps.

Funny how mistakes continue amp generation to generation. The original 2K
used 3-400's and they made the 3K with taller 3-500 by cramming all the
stuff in and using funkier shortened parts... The new "A" design was a
little taller but they didn't fix the sockets.

The original 3K makes a fantastic 8877 conversion amp.

Yes like RF says.. The vertical coolers are good, but you must be careful
to not block off the chimney top.

So I think Between Jim VE7RF and myself we've answered why amps like Henry,
and The Sb-220 have had pin melting issues.

BOB DD

R L Measures escribi:

Air system sockets and chimneys result in higher glass temperatures than is the case with the transverse-fan cooling system used in the SB-220 and TL-922.

Rich, how do one determine correct airflow?. If it blows too low, high temperatures arise, but if your airspeed is too high cooling efficiency may be also degraded (besides the noise)?.

Best regards
Guillermo - LU8EYW.

On Nov 10, 2006, at 8:04 PM, badgerscreek wrote:

Hi Rich

Are you still selling those 470uf 450 volt Electrolytics?

Yes

I dont see
them on your pricelist.

Thanks for the heads up, Greg. I fixed the price-info list.
The price is $9.93 each. If you need some, send adr, say how many, we ship ur order via usps, pay from the invoice.

Greg

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Nov 11, 2006, at 12:27 AM, pentalab wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...>

wrote:

### Interesting. Per a 2 hr documentary on A+E... the church

coughed up 600 million cash.. for families of victims.... for
exactly 600 x priest's. All were settled out of court.

RICH SEZ...So far, over $1100-million has been paid out in the

U. S. and the Los Angeles archdiocese has yet to settle with the
600+ victims of its 170+ pedo- priests. Two of my friends were
victims. . . trivia: Archbishop of L.A., Roger Mahony's
callsign is W6QYI.

### U gotta be kidding ? $1100- million is 1.1 BILLION BUX !
Now u know where the money goes every week. My older sis thinks
it's all hogwash... "they couldn't possibly have done any of it"...
and they must be nothing but..."unsubstantiated allegations" by a
bunch of witch hunting sour grapes types. The trbl is.... even
though $1100 million has been paid out of court.... meanwhile these
pedo-priest's are still running amuck...free. You only hear of
the odd one being locked up.... if they can find him.

### so what do you think is the real problem ? Is is the Priest's
vow of celibacy.... and/or that they can't marry.... or is the
church a magnet for nut cases ?

### I'd be embarassed to belong to a bozo run outfit like that.

Later... and sri for being... "off topic"

Jim

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

RICH SEZ....> > Canada does not have sub-band restrictions?

### Canada got RID of sub band restrictions a LONG time
ago.... think it was 1981. The Fed gov't got sick of us
continually asking to expand the phone bands.... so they announced
NO more sub bands. It's ANY MODE....ANY BAND.... ANY FREQ....
with a max BW of 6 khz [except 30m.. where it's max 1 khz BW... but
u can still run a kw on 30m data/rtty/cw] Real simple.

Though any of us could operate phone way down at the bottom of the
cw bands... we never do. Most of the rest of the planet is like
this allready.

The kicker is.... I can call CQ down on 3600 khz on ssb... and
never get an answer,,, unless DX.

What's now gotta happen is to get the AM broadcast crap out of the
3900-4000 band.... and ditto with 7100-7300. NO point in having
more BW.... then losing it to 100-300kw AM SW broadcaster's .
The poor old general's only have 3850 to 3900 to play with...
unless they wanna contend with Asian broadcast above 3900 khz.

Meanwhile... night after night, month after month..yr after yr....
hundreds of khz of empty CW bands..... what a waste.... esp since
CW takes up zip bw... provided you don't tip the scales... and bias
the ZSAC beyond cutoff.. and try and run Class C with a GG amp!

I attended St Lucifer's back in 1959. Got booted after just one
yr.

later... Jim VE7RF

On Nov 10, 2006, at 11:36 PM, pentalab wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

RICH SEZ... I also find it disturbing that the ARRL tries to
control the way we use amateur radio bands.

### agreed. In Canada it's any mode on any band on any freq...
there are No phone sub bands. ESSB on 3507 khz... no problem. We
would never do it of course. The rest of the planet operates this
way. Makes it totally elastic.. and flexible. The u can move
about more during a contest... whether u are for or against the
contest. CW band clogged up... move up a bit.

### Seems stupid to the rest of us that USA hams can operate CW
across the entire band... but ssb down on 3680 is a no-no.... even
though that part of the band is dead night after night.

Quite

Take a look at the 1.8MHz band: There are no

ARRL-approved sub-bands. No part of the band is reserved for CW, for
AM, for spark. for SSB, for snobs, or for any we're better than
you are elite group. We run what mode we want in any clear space we
want. Things pretty much sort themselves out, and nobody owns a
certain frequency -- with that one exception, of course.

### Lemme guess.... Rauch's favourite personal playground... 1822
khz...reserved exclusively for hiscw dx acivities.

According to the guy in Manhattan who tipped me off about his debating strategies prior to the grate parasitics debate, he holds court for his groupies on his frequency using SSB.

OTOH, take a look at the 3.5MHz band. where many KHz are
virtually a vast wasteland because of ARRL-blessed sub-bands.

### agreed. Aren't the ARRL... the fella's that promote all the
contests [qrm fests].... guys making thousands of useless qso's?
Then they have the audacity to come up with this stupid 3 khz max
bw for ssb.... and promote digital voice [which still doesn't
work... and neither does drm/iboc]

Bingo

### They couldn't band plan their way outa paper bag. I used to
be heavy into contesting yrs ago.... but I didn't call CQ... 300 hz
from a group of guys on 75m... all running QRO.

### On 40m it's a real mess. They all operate split.... too bad
they didn't listen on their TX frequency. They do the same thing
on 75m... TX right on top of a qso.... and listen down on 3610.

A fun solution to this problem is to tape record them on the frequency they are interfering with and play it back on the frequency they are listening to.

### The real answer is to just move ALL the AM SW broadcast junk
from both 40m and 3900-4000....... down to say... 11m.

Guffaw

Later... Jim VE7RF

cheerz

73, Tony W4ZT

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

After my first 3-500 amp when I was 16 I always used sockets

and chimneys.

RICH SEZ.... Air system sockets and chimneys result in higher glass
temperatures than is the case with the transverse-fan cooling
system used in the SB-220 and TL-922.

### Nonsense. Depends on airflow... and speed of fan..or blower.
You def will get better, more uniform cooling with a blower and
chimneys... PROVIDED u use vertical finned anode connectors. With
chimneys... u def get better cooling of the pins.

I always felt it allowed the envelopes of the tubes to evenly

cool around the tubes. The tube pins get coolest direct air.

RICH SEZ... So why does the Henry 3K-A, which uses air-system
sockets and chimneys, have a history of melting solder out of tube
pins #1 and #5 ?

### Dunno... my guess is, since the 3K-A runs 4 kv.. and >2 kw
out... that some bozo at Henry screwed up. Maybe they use lousy
sockets.. with too much contact resistance. Who knows. Their
anode connector's may well be a problem. Lot's of homebrew 3-
500Z amps with chimney's... never a problem.

### There is hardly any air going through the pyrex coleman lantern
chimney's on a L4B... with it's puny... but quiet 1550 rpm
blower. No roasted ink either.... and no one ever melted solder
on pins 1+5.

### Use some heat sensitive paint(S)... like Eimac suggests... and
you can tell pretty quick... what's within spec.

Later.... Jim VE7RF

On Nov 11, 2006, at 12:27 AM, pentalab wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

But quitting doesn't help... without a strong lobby, we have no

voice for ham radio.

RICH SEZ... Mexican Hams have no such voice

## actually they do... forget the name of their national
organization.

The point is that the ARRL isn't that organization and they do not have inane restrictions.

RICH SEZ...and they can operate any mode they choose on any Ham
band.

### Bingo.... and so does Canada...

Canada does not have sub-band restrictions?

and the rest of the world...the
ultimate band plan. Rauch just hates this concept.

Because he owns the deed to a certain frequency in the 1.8MHz band?

... tough... cuz
we out number em 320-1.

RICH SEZ... We have the ARRL and we can't.

### IOW... they are totally ineffective....and operate at 23 %
eff... sorta like Class A. Their publishing empire is on a par
with wayne green.

RICH SEZ...

I don't think the hierarchy listens to peons like me,
Tony. For example, the church with the pedophile priest problem:
The first case to receive national press coverage was in Louisiana
in 1985 -- but the hierarchy did virtually nothing. In January
2002, the scandal really hit the fan, and again the hierarchy did
virtually nothing. Of late, lay members who see contributing
monies to defend such priests as a waste of their money have
stopped contributing. My guess is that money talks loudest with the
powers that be.

### Interesting. Per a 2 hr documentary on A+E... the church
coughed up 600 million cash.. for families of victims.... for
exactly 600 x priests. All were settled out of court.

So far, over $1100-million has been paid out in the U. S. and the Los Angeles
archdiocese has yet to settle with the 600+ victims of its 170+ pedo- priests. Two of my friends were victims. . . trivia: Archbishop of L.A., Roger Mahony's callsign is W6QYI.

### On a related note... some one here in my town was looking at the
Boston Police Dept's "most wanted list". There, they recognized
a mug shot of a pedophile..... turns out this wanted fella was on
the other side of town from me... as the local parish priest !! He
had been hiding there for years, when things got too hot for him in
Boston. Well known fact they just shuffle em around the globe...
some hiding behind 30' stone walls in Eu some place. Nobody in
that hierarchy, can ever manage to trace these guys.... which is
pure bs... they know exactly where on the planet they all are.

Maybe they are just scouting new locations for DX-peditions ?

This local priest got himself splattered all over our local 6 pm
news... was arrested.... and deported. He's in the slammer now.

... modeling nightgowns for some guy named "Bubba".

RICH SEZ...

Lack of explanation is not good because those who already know

the

subject are not the ones most interested in reading an article,

so

the article needs to be written so as not to lose those who want

to

acquire the knowledge that the author acquired from the project

at

hand. The word that describes this type of writing

is "Readable".

I try to write readable stuff.

### agreed. It's superbly written. I like Rich's style. It's
all carefully explained. Nothing left out. You read it... you get
it. You don't go away with more questions than answer's. I might
not agree with some portion of it... but at least I know how he
arrived at a certain conclusion.

tnx fer the posies, Jim. cheerz.

...

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

On Nov 10, 2006, at 8:43 AM, Robert B. Bonner wrote:

Item responded to with additional comments:

Rosin-flux, solder wick, silver-tin solder, and a soldering iron are very
hard to use?

I've done it - right up there in the hardest thing to do category.

I didn't do the fix one pin at a time, I did them all at once mounted in an
old Johnson socket to get all the pins square and level with minimum heat as
possible. Sort of the mutated reverse of reattaching those 4X150 anodes.

Prepped the tube pins, prepped the big pins, pushed down into socket all the
way. You get out the black beauty or BUNZ-O-MATIC and heat the pin sleeves
up hot enough to melt solder and they'll be cooking for several minutes.
Partially fill pins with solder. Then slip tube down, touch up with solder
around top edge and hold allowing solder to cool.

Buff pins nice round bottom and stick it back in the amp.

Works good - lasts a long time. :-)

Not my favorite thing to do. Never had to do it on my tubes, just Mr
Cook-Off Buddy's.

After my first 3-500 amp when I was 16 I always used sockets and chimneys.

Air system sockets and chimneys result in higher glass temperatures than is the case with the transverse-fan cooling system used in the SB-220 and TL-922.

I always felt it allowed the envelopes of the tubes to evenly cool around
the tubes. The tube pins get coolest direct air.

So why does the Henry 3K-A, which uses air-system sockets and chimneys, have a history of melting solder out of tube pins #1 and #5 ?

I always felt there would be hot and cooler sides with air blowing just on
one side.

The way we feel is not as good as observing what is happening to the object in question. The bottom-line is that the mfg's marking ink gets toasted brown, we know it's pretty hot.

When I was working in the ham store in the 70's tubes coming out
of amps with the side sucked in and plate heaved over were always
non-chimney amps. I just wonder how bad your amp smells when the 3-500's
are melting?

In my glass-blowing experiences, melting glass emited no odor.

Is there anybody here who at one time was that stupid and can
tell me? Inquiring minds wanna know...

Never ran thermodynamic tests on envelope cooling as felt I had a pretty
good handle on why a chimney was better.

Did you ever look at the marking ink?

In my opinion if you're melting lettering off the tubes you need more air.

Marking ink does not melt, it chars.

I hate blower noise as much as the next guy. That's why I usually put a
small variac with stops on blowers. The low setting is the rag chew mode
and the top setting is the CONTEST (or EME Mode) and whatever in between
depending on my noise tolerance at that time. All my amps sit back along
the wall away from the main op position. Right now all the VHF and UHF
boxes are all factory HANK 3000 series noisier than crap. I sold my 4K-U oh
that was a sweetheart... and started development of all new HF amps here.

Shack all blown up, no walking space, wife all pissy, big scratch on her leg
from walking into shack hitting loose panels (that will teach her) My
comment don't get blood on those didn't go over well. There's nothing like
stubbing your toe on 100# plus transformers.

I do have to get this stuff done. Spending too much time on computer, but I
am having fun with you guys thanks...

Drawing scientific conclusions based on your feelings rather than on observations and measurements is not unlike walking on thin ice and rolling dice.

We might not always agree, but it is fun to play with guys who like to build
stuff.

BOB DD
...

cheers, Bob

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

But quitting doesn't help... without a strong lobby, we have no

voice for ham radio.

RICH SEZ... Mexican Hams have no such voice

## actually they do... forget the name of their national
organization.


RICH SEZ...and they can operate any mode they choose on any Ham
band.

### Bingo.... and so does Canada... and the rest of the world...the
ultimate band plan. Rauch just hates this concept.... tough... cuz
we out number em 320-1.






RICH SEZ... We have the ARRL and we can't.

### IOW... they are totally ineffective....and operate at 23 %
eff... sorta like Class A. Their publishing empire is on a par
with wayne green.


RICH SEZ... I don't think the hierarchy listens to peons like me,
Tony. For example, the church with the pedophile priest problem:
The first case to receive national press coverage was in Louisiana
in 1985 -- but the hierarchy did virtually nothing. In January
2002, the scandal really hit the fan, and again the hierarchy did
virtually nothing. Of late, lay members who see contributing
monies to defend such priests as a waste of their money have
stopped contributing. My guess is that money talks loudest with the
powers that be.

### Interesting. Per a 2 hr documentary on A+E... the church
coughed up 600 million cash.. for families of victims.... for
exactly 600 x priests. All were settled out of court.

### On a related note... some one here in my town was looking at the
Boston Police Dept's "most wanted list". There, they recognized
a mug shot of a pedophile..... turns out this wanted fella was on
the other side of town from me... as the local parish priest !! He
had been hiding there for years, when things got too hot for him in
Boston. Well known fact they just shuffle em around the globe...
some hiding behind 30' stone walls in Eu some place. Nobody in
that hierarchy, can ever manage to trace these guys.... which is
pure bs... they know exactly where on the planet they all are.
This local priest got himself splattered all over our local 6 pm
news... was arrested.... and deported. He's in the slammer now.

RICH SEZ...

Lack of explanation is not good because those who already know

the

subject are not the ones most interested in reading an article,

so

the article needs to be written so as not to lose those who want

to

acquire the knowledge that the author acquired from the project

at

hand. The word that describes this type of writing

is "Readable".

I try to write readable stuff.

### agreed. It's superbly written. I like Rich's style. It's
all carefully explained. Nothing left out. You read it... you get
it. You don't go away with more questions than answer's. I might
not agree with some portion of it... but at least I know how he
arrived at a certain conclusion.


If what I write is boring to experts,

I could not care less, the readers I hate to lose are those who
aren't experts.

### agreed. The experts can go belong to the IEEE... or write
their own book/article/secret/hidden agenda.

Later... Jim VE7RF

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

RICH SEZ... I also find it disturbing that the ARRL tries to
control the way we use amateur radio bands.

### agreed. In Canada it's any mode on any band on any freq...
there are No phone sub bands. ESSB on 3507 khz... no problem. We
would never do it of course. The rest of the planet operates this
way. Makes it totally elastic.. and flexible. The u can move
about more during a contest... whether u are for or against the
contest. CW band clogged up... move up a bit.

### Seems stupid to the rest of us that USA hams can operate CW
across the entire band... but ssb down on 3680 is a no-no.... even
though that part of the band is dead night after night.



Take a look at the 1.8MHz band: There are no

ARRL-approved sub-bands. No part of the band is reserved for CW,

for

AM, for spark. for SSB, for snobs, or for any we're better than

you

are elite group. We run what mode we want in any clear space we
want. Things pretty much sort themselves out, and nobody owns a
certain frequency -- with that one exception, of course.

### Lemme guess.... Rauch's favourite personal playground... 1822
khz...reserved exclusively for hiscw dx acivities.

OTOH, take a look at the 3.5MHz band. where many KHz are
virtually a vast wasteland because of ARRL-blessed sub-bands.

### agreed. Aren't the ARRL... the fella's that promote all the
contests [qrm fests].... guys making thousands of useless qso's?
Then they have the audacity to come up with this stupid 3 khz max
bw for ssb.... and promote digital voice [which still doesn't
work... and neither does drm/iboc]

### They couldn't band plan their way outa paper bag. I used to
be heavy into contesting yrs ago.... but I didn't call CQ... 300 hz
from a group of guys on 75m... all running QRO.

### On 40m it's a real mess. They all operate split.... too bad
they didn't listen on their TX frequency. They do the same thing
on 75m... TX right on top of a qso.... and listen down on 3610.

### The real answer is to just move ALL the AM SW broadcast junk
from both 40m and 3900-4000....... down to say... 11m.

Later... Jim VE7RF

cheerz

73, Tony W4ZT

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

RICH SEZ... I also find it disturbing that the ARRL tries to
control the way we use amateur radio bands.

### agreed. In Canada it's any mode on any band on any freq...
there are No phone sub bands. ESSB on 3507 khz... no problem. We
would never do it of course. The rest of the planet operates this
way. Makes it totally elastic.. and flexible. The u can move
about more during a contest... whether u are for or against the
contest. CW band clogged up... move up a bit.

### Seems stupid to the rest of us that USA hams can operate CW
across the entire band... but ssb down on 3680 is a no-no.... even
though that part of the band is dead night after night.



Take a look at the 1.8MHz band: There are no

ARRL-approved sub-bands. No part of the band is reserved for CW,

for

AM, for spark. for SSB, for snobs, or for any we're better than

you

are elite group. We run what mode we want in any clear space we
want. Things pretty much sort themselves out, and nobody owns a
certain frequency -- with that one exception, of course.

### Lemme guess.... Rauch's favourite personal playground... 1822
khz...reserved exclusively for hiscw dx acivities.

OTOH, take a look at the 3.5MHz band. where many KHz are
virtually a vast wasteland because of ARRL-blessed sub-bands.

### agreed. Aren't the ARRL... the fella's that promote all the
contests [qrm fests].... guys making thousands of useless qso's?
Then they have the audacity to come up with this stupid 3 khz max
bw for ssb.... and promote digital voice [which still doesn't
work... and neither does drm/iboc]

### They couldn't band plan their way outa paper bag. I used to
be heavy into contesting yrs ago.... but I didn't call CQ... 300 hz
from a group of guys on 75m... all running QRO.

### On 40m it's a real mess. They all operate split.... too bad
they didn't listen on their TX frequency. They do the same thing
on 75m... TX right on top of a qso.... and listen down on 3610.

### The real answer is to just move ALL the AM SW broadcast junk
from both 40m and 3900-4000....... down to say... 11m.

Later... Jim VE7RF

cheerz

73, Tony W4ZT

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

All,

I set down and made a logarithmic graph today showing how a
transformers core size in square inches goes up with wattage. I used
the Maxwell calc to get the values and really sped things up. Anyhow,
I printed off the Log graph paper and hand done the graph (curve)
from the values I got from the calc. I then scanned it back into my
PC making a JPEG pic. There will be a large version suitable for
printing saved under files later tonight in a zip file. The small one
under photos can be read but just barely. It wouldn't be woth a crap
to try to print. The one to be added to the files section is 1.72
megs in size, and that in a zip file. It is extra large which gives a
quality printed version.

Bill Orr tried to show one along with the ARRL on sizing one by
weight which in reality can be wrong. This new graph can be proven by
the basic transformer formulas. It does not account for the stacking
factor which is between 0.90 and 0.98. When the core size is
multiplied by it, it really drops the size in square inches by a
small amount. The stacking factor must be gotten from the individual
spec sheets for each core lam size and the thickness of the lam. By
using the graph without deducting for the stacking factor, one is
better off.

This graph is for a core running at 12 kilogauss and 60 Hz. For 50
Hz, multiply the size in square inches by 1.2. The graph covers from
1 watt to 10 kW. You'll notice is makes a bell curve using the log
graph. To read it, just use the watts you want, and go up to where
it's line intersects the curve. Then read to the left the size in
square inches the core should be. The core is the central iron inside
the coil and is measured by the tounge width times the stack
thickness. The tounge width is generally X2 the outside leg width for
easy measuring. The curve does not account for under-sized wire.

Best,

Will

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Robert B. Bonner"
<rbonner@...> wrote:

Prepped the tube pins, prepped the big pins, pushed down into

socket all the way. You get out the black beauty or BUNZ-O-MATIC

### You mean the "American beauty" . I still have 2 of em... 100w
version... with the big 3/8" chisel tips. BTW... I was in a
hardware store once... mid 80's.... and saw a 575W version. It was
HUGE. The guy said it was used for soldering copper piping. Had
a 1/2" tip... maybe bigger. Never saw anybody use one on copper
pipe.... just benz -0-matic torches.

After my first 3-500 amp when I was 16 I always used sockets and

chimneys.

I always felt it allowed the envelopes of the tubes to evenly cool

around

the tubes. The tube pins get coolest direct air.

### chimneys work good... provided u use real anode connectors...
with VERTICAL fins.... not the Eimac ones. BTW... copper conducts
heat WAY better than Aluminium ever did. Per Care and feeding...
Aluminium is only 57% as good as CU. Something to keep in mind.

I always felt there would be hot and cooler sides with air blowing

just on one side.

Never ran thermodynamic tests on envelope cooling as felt I had a

pretty good handle on why a chimney was better.

In my opinion if you're melting lettering off the tubes you need

more air.

### Airflow on a big diam tube is called Laminar flow I think. Per
the Uniform Building code regs, EIA, etc... they rate els on ants as
either below 2" diam... or greater than 2" diam. You get more
Laminar flow on anything above 2" diam. What this means is the
airflow will wrap around the tube. On <2"... and higher
velocities... you end up with a partial vac on the back end.[which
makes the windloading worse.... u got high pressue on the front
end.. and a partial vac/ low pressue on the back end... making the
<2" el bend even more]

F-12 takes advantage of this on some of their yagi's... with els
packed in tight together. The airflow will hit the 1st el... and
simply jump over all the rest of the side by side packed in els....
and recombine 2-6 diameter's downstream.

### That's why.. per the UBC... you actually have a different
method of calculating windload on tubes <2"... compared to those

2". Tubes above 2" diam have less windload,,, simply cuz the

airflow is laminar... and wraps around it. tubes <2" diam... and
high speed wind... the airflow recombines downstream. Adapt
that to tube cooling with fans...and on a 3-500Z... a high speed fan
is still better than a low speed fan... the back end always gets
cooled better.

## back in 1976 I had a single 8163 amp [3-400Z]. in GG...
Tried 5 kv on the anode... and 175 w of drive from my old TR-3.
It would do 1750w out of one tube. I had 7 spares... never used
any of em.... and flat out could not blow up the one in the amp...
even when orange. Normal operation was 1200w out of one tube. I'd
never do that stuff today of course. Back then I was 21.... and
drove the crap outa everything... lots of fun. That amp had just a
100 cfm 4" square rotron. Then I ran into W6RU.... and he
shipped me a 4-1000 RF deck... and 3 x spare tubes. That was even
more fun. Heck we even tried grnding out the ALC on the drake's at
the time.... produced a near solid green bar on the rf scope...
called the "green bar effect". Nobody got wound up about stuff
like IMD back then.... we all just wanted loads of.."talk power".
It was a good lark. Legal limit... what's that?? Must be for
somebody else.

Later... Jim VE7RF

I hate blower noise as much as the next guy. That's why I usually

put a small variac with stops on blowers. The low setting is the
rag chew mode and the top setting is the CONTEST (or EME Mode) and
whatever in between depending on my noise tolerance at that time.
All my amps sit back along the wall away from the main op
position.

Item responded to with additional comments:

Rosin-flux, solder wick, silver-tin solder, and a soldering iron are very
hard to use?

I've done it - right up there in the hardest thing to do category.

I didn't do the fix one pin at a time, I did them all at once mounted in an
old Johnson socket to get all the pins square and level with minimum heat as
possible. Sort of the mutated reverse of reattaching those 4X150 anodes.

Prepped the tube pins, prepped the big pins, pushed down into socket all the
way. You get out the black beauty or BUNZ-O-MATIC and heat the pin sleeves
up hot enough to melt solder and they'll be cooking for several minutes.
Partially fill pins with solder. Then slip tube down, touch up with solder
around top edge and hold allowing solder to cool.

Buff pins nice round bottom and stick it back in the amp.

Works good - lasts a long time. :-)

Not my favorite thing to do. Never had to do it on my tubes, just Mr
Cook-Off Buddy's.

After my first 3-500 amp when I was 16 I always used sockets and chimneys.

I always felt it allowed the envelopes of the tubes to evenly cool around
the tubes. The tube pins get coolest direct air.

I always felt there would be hot and cooler sides with air blowing just on
one side. When I was working in the ham store in the 70's tubes coming out
of amps with the side sucked in and plate heaved over were always
non-chimney amps. I just wonder how bad your amp smells when the 3-500's
are melting? Is there anybody here who at one time was that stupid and can
tell me? Inquiring minds wanna know...

Never ran thermodynamic tests on envelope cooling as felt I had a pretty
good handle on why a chimney was better.

In my opinion if you're melting lettering off the tubes you need more air.

I hate blower noise as much as the next guy. That's why I usually put a
small variac with stops on blowers. The low setting is the rag chew mode
and the top setting is the CONTEST (or EME Mode) and whatever in between
depending on my noise tolerance at that time. All my amps sit back along
the wall away from the main op position. Right now all the VHF and UHF
boxes are all factory HANK 3000 series noisier than crap. I sold my 4K-U oh
that was a sweetheart... and started development of all new HF amps here.

Shack all blown up, no walking space, wife all pissy, big scratch on her leg
from walking into shack hitting loose panels (that will teach her) My
comment don't get blood on those didn't go over well. There's nothing like
stubbing your toe on 100# plus transformers.

I do have to get this stuff done. Spending too much time on computer, but I
am having fun with you guys thanks...

We might not always agree, but it is fun to play with guys who like to build
stuff.

BOB DD

-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
On Behalf Of R L Measures
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 7:12 AM
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Re: 3-500Z socket.... max current ratings


On Nov 9, 2006, at 6:09 PM, Robert B. Bonner wrote:

### never had any problems on my L4B's.... use chimneys'. How
fellow's melt the solder on the pins of 3-500Z's on a SB-220 is
beyond me... since the SB-220 fan blows air on the pins.

Easy -- don't lube the fan's porous-bronze sleeve bearings, the fan
slows down, the solder melts.

### The slightest bit of DC resistance in a socket... and you
will heat stuff up... fast .

amen, Robert, and with reduced air flow, pins 1 and 5 get hot as hell
-- all for want of two drops of oil.

The Professor Says:

You have very little problems with the glass tubes if you keep the
airflow
moving in the right direction. Of course the L4B was not too bad. With
chimneys the hotter things get the easier air moves through the
chimney.

Without a fan, true, but with a fan the convective effect would be
minimal.

You still need help getting the heat out of the cabinet. I cured
that with
a big muffin fan on the top with a variac to adjust speed depending
on what
I was doing.

The SB-220 Just flat has the air going in all the wrong directions
inside
the amplifier.

What would be better than cool air being sucked in the back of the
cabinet and blown directly on the hot parts?

When you are doing a contest type operation you are almost
continuously transmitting.

Especially crocodile-types. (all mouth and no ears)

The transformer gets hot, the tubes get hot,
even with muffin fans on top the things still build up a lot of
heat in
them. While an 813 will cool well with horizontal air, a 3-500Z
just cant
get the job done at max duty.

In aerodynamics, one learns that perpendicular forced-air flows
fairly uniformly around all surfaces of a cylinder. This can be seen
by watching the smoke plume from a smoldering cotton rope. This
principle is what keeps the red marking ink on the 3-500Zs in a
SB-220 from toasting to brown like it does in amplifiers that use
chimney cooling.

Next thing you know is a perfectly good tube goes dark... Its very
hard to
fix too.

Rosin-flux, solder wick, silver-tin solder, and a soldering iron are
very hard to use?

I've done it - right up there in the hardest thing to do category.
This happened twice to a contest op I know and I saved him. He now
runs a
3X3 in the cruise mode.

Chortle. Translation: Contest-speak for all she's got. Yes, I
always run my 4cx15,000Js at 1500w.

I once melted the anode coolers off a set of 4X150's I ended up
heating the
coolers on top of my mom's electric stove burners, putting fresh
solder into
the cooler and lowering the tubes back into the coolers. They
worked fine.

Don't ever have not enough air flow and any vertical or horizontal
pressure
on your tube anodes!!! Things come apart.

I also once melted the solder out of a 4 813 amp's suppressors, I
had a
bunch of pressure on the resistors and one unsoldered and pulled
apart under
the pressure. The amp went from 1000Watts to ZERO instantly with a
loud
bang and a huge flash.

36 years ago... AH to be 15 again.

BOB DD

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org






Yahoo! Groups Links

On Nov 10, 2006, at 5:46 AM, Tony King - W4ZT wrote:

R L Measures wrote:

On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Tony King - W4ZT wrote:

badgerscreek wrote:
<snip>

YES QEX MAGAZINE IS A RIP OFF CONSIDERING THAT YOU GET 6 ISSUES

AND

WHEN YOU FACTOR IN THE MAILING COSTS ITS A HUGE PRICE TO PAY FOR A
FEW ARTICLES. I HATED RENEWING MY SUBSCRIPTION BECAUSE I SINCERELY
BELIEVE EVERYTHING IN QEX COULD BE PLACED IN QST.

<snip>

Greg, I believe it SHOULD be placed in QST. QEX was nothing more

than

an effort to get us old timers to BUY another magazine.

Correct, and, according to my source, mo' money was the internal
argument presented at Newington before launching QEX. I got the
impression that we were being fleeced. My solution was to send a
message to Newington by unsubscribing to QST and unsubscribing to

QEX.

But quitting doesn't help... without a strong lobby, we have no voice
for ham radio.

Mexican Hams have no such voice and they can operate any mode they choose on any Ham band. We have the ARRL and we can't.

Personal and group lobbying for change at ARRL may be
time better spent. Start with your friends, get to know your Section
Manager and District Director.

The problem with the Directors is that the League effectively controls them with "shaking hands money". Another questionable area is vote counting.

Enough people sending the message will
get it pushed up to the top.

I don't think the hierarchy listens to peons like me, Tony. For example, the church with the pedophile priest problem: The first case to receive national press coverage was in Louisiana in 1985 -- but the hierarchy did virtually nothing. In January 2002, the scandal really hit the fan, and again the hierarchy did virtually nothing. Of late, lay members who see contributing monies to defend such priests as a waste of their money have stopped contributing. My guess is that money talks loudest with the powers that be.

It HAS to be
more costly to produce QEX as opposed to including the articles in
QST.
Seems to me they're boiling QST down and what's left isn't the best
part... some of the recent articles sure make that obvious. When I
was a
beginner there were plenty of articles WAY over my head in QST.

This was also my experience in high-school, Tony, but after a few
years of additional schooling this changed and I realized that:
1. Designing and building RF transmitting amplifiers isn't akin to
rocket science.

It wasn't all about RF amplifiers back then... there were lots of
construction and technical articles.

RF-amplifiers, UHF, and regulated power supplies were some my main areas of interest.

2. Many of the articles in QST were difficult to fathom because the
author did a somewhat less than ok job of explaining what was going
on so that new guys could understand.

Well, there is always a percentage like that but looking back at many of
them, they were good.

Lack of explanation is not good because those who already know the subject are not the ones most interested in reading an article, so the article needs to be written so as not to lose those who want to acquire the knowledge that the author acquired from the project at hand. The word that describes this type of writing is "Readable". I try to write readable stuff. If what I write is boring to experts, I could not care less, the readers I hate to lose are those who aren't experts.

Of course they didn't see some things the same
way we do now... different view on technology or things learned during
the last 50 years... but many were an honest effort to do a good job.
Rich, you've spent a lot of your time trying to do a good job on
articles for QST so they're not ALL bad ;)

I made up my mind about the way articles should be written when I was a
Sophomore in high-school and my parents gave me a subscription to QST for Xmas.

Now,
there is little there I want to read. Too bad they can't be RE-
combined
to make ONE better magazine.

The problem as I see it is that the powers that be at QST are
presently "of, by, and for" something other than amateur radio.

It is like most of the cities etc. The government doesn't seem to exist
by and for the people but for their own agenda and it is all driven by
money. Now I don't fault ARRL for spending money on the spectrum
protection effort and many other things. If they don't fight the fight,
no one will. When people quit, there's less money... when there's less
money, there's less to work with... and the end result may not be what
you wanted. Unlike government that imposes taxes you can't avoid (most
of us can't), ARRL is funded by volunteer membership... you choose to
support them or not. If you don't, who do you support that IS fighting
for ham radio?

One day when I was bicycling home from Jr. High School, I stopped by the C-Street Market and I bought a 1955 Radio Amateur's Handbook. On page 8 I read that we owe our amateur radio to the American Radio Relay League. This strikes me as a bit odd. How about you? On the opposite page (p.9) there's a picture of the inventor of the firearms silencer, Hiram P. Maxim, wearing a set of headphones - but strangely he is given no credit whatsoever for his brilliant invention.

I

also find it disturbing that the ARRL tries to control the way we

use

amateur radio bands. Take a look at the 1.8MHz band: There are no
ARRL-approved sub-bands. No part of the band is reserved for CW, for
AM, for spark. for SSB, for snobs, or for any we're better than you
are elite group. We run what mode we want in any clear space we
want. Things pretty much sort themselves out, and nobody owns a
certain frequency -- with that one exception, of course.

True... even the new rules creating much larger phone segments on 75/80
wont help some of that. 75 meters is terrible these days with some of
the most inconsiderate, meowing, singing, trash mouth crap I have ever
heard.

Does not spreading manure around help to dispel the smell?

...

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

R L Measures wrote:

On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Tony King - W4ZT wrote:

badgerscreek wrote:
<snip>

YES QEX MAGAZINE IS A RIP OFF CONSIDERING THAT YOU GET 6 ISSUES AND
WHEN YOU FACTOR IN THE MAILING COSTS ITS A HUGE PRICE TO PAY FOR A
FEW ARTICLES. I HATED RENEWING MY SUBSCRIPTION BECAUSE I SINCERELY
BELIEVE EVERYTHING IN QEX COULD BE PLACED IN QST.

<snip>

Greg, I believe it SHOULD be placed in QST. QEX was nothing more than
an effort to get us old timers to BUY another magazine.

Correct, and, according to my source, mo' money was the internal argument presented at Newington before launching QEX. I got the impression that we were being fleeced. My solution was to send a message to Newington by unsubscribing to QST and unsubscribing to QEX.

But quitting doesn't help... without a strong lobby, we have no voice for ham radio. Personal and group lobbying for change at ARRL may be time better spent. Start with your friends, get to know your Section Manager and District Director. Enough people sending the message will get it pushed up to the top.

It HAS to be
more costly to produce QEX as opposed to including the articles in QST.
Seems to me they're boiling QST down and what's left isn't the best
part... some of the recent articles sure make that obvious. When I was a
beginner there were plenty of articles WAY over my head in QST.

This was also my experience in high-school, Tony, but after a few years of additional schooling this changed and I realized that:
1. Designing and building RF transmitting amplifiers isn't akin to rocket science.

It wasn't all about RF amplifiers back then... there were lots of construction and technical articles.

2. Many of the articles in QST were difficult to fathom because the author did a somewhat less than ok job of explaining what was going on so that new guys could understand.

Well, there is always a percentage like that but looking back at many of them, they were good. Of course they didn't see some things the same way we do now... different view on technology or things learned during the last 50 years... but many were an honest effort to do a good job. Rich, you've spent a lot of your time trying to do a good job on articles for QST so they're not ALL bad ;)

Now,
there is little there I want to read. Too bad they can't be RE- combined
to make ONE better magazine.

The problem as I see it is that the powers that be at QST are presently "of, by, and for" something other than amateur radio.

It is like most of the cities etc. The government doesn't seem to exist by and for the people but for their own agenda and it is all driven by money. Now I don't fault ARRL for spending money on the spectrum protection effort and many other things. If they don't fight the fight, no one will. When people quit, there's less money... when there's less money, there's less to work with... and the end result may not be what you wanted. Unlike government that imposes taxes you can't avoid (most of us can't), ARRL is funded by volunteer membership... you choose to support them or not. If you don't, who do you support that IS fighting for ham radio?

I

also find it disturbing that the ARRL tries to control the way we use amateur radio bands. Take a look at the 1.8MHz band: There are no ARRL-approved sub-bands. No part of the band is reserved for CW, for AM, for spark. for SSB, for snobs, or for any we're better than you are elite group. We run what mode we want in any clear space we want. Things pretty much sort themselves out, and nobody owns a certain frequency -- with that one exception, of course.

True... even the new rules creating much larger phone segments on 75/80 wont help some of that. 75 meters is terrible these days with some of the most inconsiderate, meowing, singing, trash mouth crap I have ever heard.

OTOH, take a look at the 3.5MHz band. where many KHz are virtually a vast wasteland because of ARRL-blessed sub-bands.
cheerz

73, Tony W4ZT

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

And when that wasteland opens up... it'll be interesting. Unfortunately they went all the way to 3600 and all the guys doing digital down there will be forced down and that wont be pretty but that's the way it'll go.

I've been an ARRL life member for over 40 years now and have no intention to quit, but I'll send them a note... or two... or three... I've met a few of them and they put their pants on the same way we do and operate on the same bands. There's a lot of politics but it isn't without some hope.

Have a great weekend!
Tony W4ZT

On Nov 9, 2006, at 6:09 PM, Robert B. Bonner wrote:

### never had any problems on my L4B's.... use chimneys'. How
fellow's melt the solder on the pins of 3-500Z's on a SB-220 is
beyond me... since the SB-220 fan blows air on the pins.

Easy -- don't lube the fan's porous-bronze sleeve bearings, the fan slows down, the solder melts.

### The slightest bit of DC resistance in a socket... and you
will heat stuff up... fast .

amen, Robert, and with reduced air flow, pins 1 and 5 get hot as hell -- all for want of two drops of oil.

The Professor Says:

You have very little problems with the glass tubes if you keep the airflow
moving in the right direction. Of course the L4B was not too bad. With
chimneys the hotter things get the easier air moves through the chimney.

Without a fan, true, but with a fan the convective effect would be minimal.

You still need help getting the heat out of the cabinet. I cured that with
a big muffin fan on the top with a variac to adjust speed depending on what
I was doing.

The SB-220 Just flat has the air going in all the wrong directions inside
the amplifier.

What would be better than cool air being sucked in the back of the cabinet and blown directly on the hot parts?

When you are doing a contest type operation you are almost
continuously transmitting.

Especially crocodile-types. (all mouth and no ears)

The transformer gets hot, the tubes get hot,
even with muffin fans on top the things still build up a lot of heat in
them. While an 813 will cool well with horizontal air, a 3-500Z just cant
get the job done at max duty.

In aerodynamics, one learns that perpendicular forced-air flows fairly uniformly around all surfaces of a cylinder. This can be seen by watching the smoke plume from a smoldering cotton rope. This principle is what keeps the red marking ink on the 3-500Zs in a SB-220 from toasting to brown like it does in amplifiers that use chimney cooling.

Next thing you know is a perfectly good tube goes dark... Its very hard to
fix too.

Rosin-flux, solder wick, silver-tin solder, and a soldering iron are very hard to use?

I've done it - right up there in the hardest thing to do category.
This happened twice to a contest op I know and I saved him. He now runs a
3X3 in the cruise mode.

Chortle. Translation: Contest-speak for all she's got. Yes, I always run my 4cx15,000Js at 1500w.

I once melted the anode coolers off a set of 4X150's I ended up heating the
coolers on top of my mom's electric stove burners, putting fresh solder into
the cooler and lowering the tubes back into the coolers. They worked fine.

Don't ever have not enough air flow and any vertical or horizontal pressure
on your tube anodes!!! Things come apart.

I also once melted the solder out of a 4 813 amp's suppressors, I had a
bunch of pressure on the resistors and one unsoldered and pulled apart under
the pressure. The amp went from 1000Watts to ZERO instantly with a loud
bang and a huge flash.

36 years ago... AH to be 15 again.

BOB DD

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Tony King - W4ZT wrote:

badgerscreek wrote:
<snip>

YES QEX MAGAZINE IS A RIP OFF CONSIDERING THAT YOU GET 6 ISSUES AND
WHEN YOU FACTOR IN THE MAILING COSTS ITS A HUGE PRICE TO PAY FOR A
FEW ARTICLES. I HATED RENEWING MY SUBSCRIPTION BECAUSE I SINCERELY
BELIEVE EVERYTHING IN QEX COULD BE PLACED IN QST.

<snip>

Greg, I believe it SHOULD be placed in QST. QEX was nothing more than
an effort to get us old timers to BUY another magazine.

Correct, and, according to my source, mo' money was the internal argument presented at Newington before launching QEX. I got the impression that we were being fleeced. My solution was to send a message to Newington by unsubscribing to QST and unsubscribing to QEX.

It HAS to be
more costly to produce QEX as opposed to including the articles in QST.
Seems to me they're boiling QST down and what's left isn't the best
part... some of the recent articles sure make that obvious. When I was a
beginner there were plenty of articles WAY over my head in QST.

This was also my experience in high-school, Tony, but after a few years of additional schooling this changed and I realized that:
1. Designing and building RF transmitting amplifiers isn't akin to rocket science.
2. Many of the articles in QST were difficult to fathom because the author did a somewhat less than ok job of explaining what was going on so that new guys could understand.

Now,
there is little there I want to read. Too bad they can't be RE- combined
to make ONE better magazine.

The problem as I see it is that the powers that be at QST are presently "of, by, and for" something other than amateur radio. I also find it disturbing that the ARRL tries to control the way we use amateur radio bands. Take a look at the 1.8MHz band: There are no ARRL-approved sub-bands. No part of the band is reserved for CW, for AM, for spark. for SSB, for snobs, or for any we're better than you are elite group. We run what mode we want in any clear space we want. Things pretty much sort themselves out, and nobody owns a certain frequency -- with that one exception, of course.
OTOH, take a look at the 3.5MHz band. where many KHz are virtually a vast wasteland because of ARRL-blessed sub-bands.
cheerz

73, Tony W4ZT

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

badgerscreek wrote:
<snip>

YES QEX MAGAZINE IS A RIP OFF CONSIDERING THAT YOU GET 6 ISSUES AND
WHEN YOU FACTOR IN THE MAILING COSTS ITS A HUGE PRICE TO PAY FOR A
FEW ARTICLES. I HATED RENEWING MY SUBSCRIPTION BECAUSE I SINCERELY
BELIEVE EVERYTHING IN QEX COULD BE PLACED IN QST.

<snip>

Greg, I believe it SHOULD be placed in QST. QEX was nothing more than an effort to get us old timers to BUY another magazine. It HAS to be more costly to produce QEX as opposed to including the articles in QST. Seems to me they're boiling QST down and what's left isn't the best part... some of the recent articles sure make that obvious. When I was a beginner there were plenty of articles WAY over my head in QST. Now, there is little there I want to read. Too bad they can't be RE-combined to make ONE better magazine.

73, Tony W4ZT