开云体育

This is too good to be true, from the admin;

"My apologies to the group for this ... someone at 30gigs.com
<localhost (www3.30gigs.com [67.15.217.15])> has spoofed the
e-mail address I use for administering this group. The "spoof"
is obvious from two points - the entry IP in the message header
and the lack of the automatic signature attached to each of my
postings".

"I have modified the group settings so the administrator account
cannot be (mis)used again. Unfortunately, this simply proves
that the e-mail address on ANY posting to the group can be forged
(spoofed). I suspect the group will see quite a bit of that
kind of childish behavior from the very same individual(s) who
are no longer welcome here".

73,

... Administrator
amps@...


I believe him about as far as I can thrown him. Rich got the blame
for it! Did you spoof him Rich? Rich has been spoofing the admin, you
spoofing Rich? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Best,

Will




--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "craxd" <craxd1@...> wrote:

I know it's poor form to talk about another group, but I have
to show this if others haven't seen it. About the 811 copy
Hsu shown. This admin, since his last post saying to stop,
let Tom whip away on Hsu I guess. However, when one made a
joke about it this morning, and I answered it, look what the
unknown admin had to say;

"I told you morons to stop this thread. Nothing techinical
here. Am I going to have to throw you all out of here. The
list founder told me to clean up this mess and I will".

Isn't the founder of the Amps list dead? Or that's what I
thought anyhow. He calls everyone morons, and wouldn't even
sign as Administrator this time, just left it blank. I think this
is more like the moron is on the other end. I just wonder why he's
never banned me yet? I also just double checked, it looks I was the
last to reply, and I was only wanting to know more about Chinese
tube factories. Here's all I said to provoke him;

"I'm like you, there's a bunch of other amps that are much better
candidates. Even in this case, Hsu's friend had to make

modifications

and corrections to make it boatworthy. However, I have learned a

great

bit from Hsu about the Chinese tube factories. I actually found that
very educational. I would like to talk to him about some other tubes
no longer available and who might revive them like the 6LF6. I could
sell a ton of them in the US right now".

This is the very reason why I quit posting any questions on the
list, and really quit helping. If you ask me, by him banning Rich,
he just made a martyr out of him instead of showing who's boss.

Sincerely,

Will

It appears that the administrator of "the other" list loose a screw. About the chinese quality of tubes and amplifiers, the thread include this message from "the administrator":

"I told you morons to stop this thread. Nothing techinical here. Am I going to have to throw you all out of here. The list founder told me to clean up this mess and I will."

I now will definitely leave that list.

Best regards
Guillermo - LU8EYW.

I found an even bigger one about 6 inch ID 12 positions with one as the rotor. The contacts are made with multiple fingers. I have not used it yet but the same size as used in the TM GPT10K ... but the 10k stacked 2 insulator rings.?wa1gfz?

pentalab wrote:

I know it's poor form to talk about another group, but I have
to show this if others haven't seen it. About the 811 copy
Hsu shown. This admin, since his last post saying to stop,
let Tom whip away on Hsu I guess. However, when one made a
joke about it this morning, and I answered it, look what the
unknown admin had to say;

"I told you morons to stop this thread. Nothing techinical
here. Am I going to have to throw you all out of here. The
list founder told me to clean up this mess and I will".

Isn't the founder of the Amps list dead? Or that's what I
thought anyhow. He calls everyone morons, and wouldn't even
sign as Administrator this time, just left it blank. I think this
is more like the moron is on the other end. I just wonder why he's
never banned me yet? I also just double checked, it looks I was the
last to reply, and I was only wanting to know more about Chinese
tube factories. Here's all I said to provoke him;

"I'm like you, there's a bunch of other amps that are much better
candidates. Even in this case, Hsu's friend had to make modifications
and corrections to make it boatworthy. However, I have learned a great
bit from Hsu about the Chinese tube factories. I actually found that
very educational. I would like to talk to him about some other tubes
no longer available and who might revive them like the 6LF6. I could
sell a ton of them in the US right now".

This is the very reason why I quit posting any questions on the
list, and really quit helping. If you ask me, by him banning Rich,
he just made a martyr out of him instead of showing who's boss.

Sincerely,

Will

I want to build an Hi-pot tester, I have seen some design, Rich's and W6CW,But I do not want use ac transformer.
it is two heavy and need AC main power.I have some junk B/W and Clour TV FBT, I think if I can be use in this project.
I have a quertion, How much current the hi-pot tester should supply?The another function of tester is burning of the "junk" between two electrode,it needs more current.
73! Hsu

A 45A per leg 3-phase inlet results in 31KVA total capacity.
Yes, it is 50Hz, and the problems with 60Hz equipment are as you mention.
My two L4B amps do a maximum of 1100W and get quite hot with the original
power supply.
One of them I provided with a homebrew power supply, that runs at 4KV B+
now.
I use a vacuum variable on the plate and a 50Hz EBM blower in it.

I repaired quite a lot of SB220 and MLA 2500 with burned out transformers,
no L4B so far, just swapped diodes on those.

The power transformer 10KV/400V feeding my neighbors and myself here in a
very small village is 500KVA and
supports about 40 houses, longest run to a house is about 400m, all
underground.

You will still find pole pig transformers 10KV/400V at farms here.

73
Peter


________________________________

From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
On Behalf Of pentalab

A small plus in little Germany. But we have the paperworks no one
else in the world has to do...

#### 45 A per leg x 3 legs = 54 kva total. Now here's
the question. How many homes on one xfmr out in the street ??

### I'm assuming since ur ripple freq is 300 hz..... ur power
from the street is 50 hz ??

### ZL's tell me... trying to run a Drake L4B power supply on
50 hz cooks the plate xfmr. Anything designed for 60 hz....
when run on 50 hz... has to be severly de-rated.... including
Papst blowers/fans... xfmr's etc.

## In Japan... it appears they use 200/100 V @ 50 hz single
phase... per home.

### Here in NA... you pay through the nose to have 3 phase
power.... typ 208/120 v.... and only for business's, machine
shops, telco's, etc.

### a 42 suite typ condominium consists of 208 v/120v... 3 x
phase... and 1200 A fuse PER leg.[entire building] Each
suite only gets 208/120 V SINGLE phase.

Rich,
The band switch is not too big, you can see the AA size battery beside the switch.
Hsu

Hsu -- The only band-switch that is too big is one that won't fit in
the output compartment.

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., FRANCIS CARCIA <carcia@...>
wrote:

model 86 switches barely enough for a 4-1000A model 88 switches

work well in QRO if you parallel a couple sets of contacts. I built
a custom one with 3 decks 2 used for the inductor taps. It has 4
wipers and double contacts on each deck. The third wafer does a
plate tune padder. Never hurt it with a 4CX3000A. SS prices are a
rip off is the general rule. i built mine for less than $50.

### I concur.

### A model 86, although rated for... "30 A @ 7 kv"... well...
the 7 kv part is ok.... the 30 A rating is bogus.... that would be
either at 60 hz... or maybe 1 mhz.

### These "RSC switches" are now made by Multi-tech inc. Talking
to the fellows there.... like Skip Coleman.... they haven't a clue
as to what freqs those ratings are for. Multi-tech bought the
tooling, dies etc from RSC... and kept cranking out the same
stuff.

### IMO... unless "they" ...[this includes Multronics.... now a
division of Cardwell Condenser Corp] specifies a TEMP rise over
ambient, a mode, a duty cycle, a FREQ, then any.. "rating"... is
semi useless!

### For the 3CX-6000A7 latest project... my buddy obtained a 3
x wafer surplus model 85 switch. "rated" at 30 A @ 12 kv.
[per wafer]

### As Francis pointed out.... we paralleled all 3 x wafers. We
took 1" wide copper strap [.021" thick] and formed it around
some small bar stock.... to make a .."U" shape. Several of
these "U" s were installed. We also paralleled the "common" on
all 3 x wafers.

### Now this switch is a 10 x position switch... and each wafer
only has ONE rotor. Where the rotor "hub" in the center
connects to the "common" ...[output of the switch].. the wiper's
only grabbed ONE side of the hub ! The wiper that rides on the
hub consists of what looks like 3 x fork tines.... and each
fork tine appears to have a rounded contact on it [reduces the
surface area !]

## I asked Multi-Tech what could be done about this.... they can
easily supply "double commons"..... a set of tines grabbing
BOTH sides of the center rotor hub. The old set is removed...
the new one installed... and then the old one is laid over top of
the new one [at the machine screw joint] Sounds complicated but
is not. They use an offset... so both commons start at the same
side of the ceramic... then one of them [new one] has an
offset.... and grabs the back end of the rotor hub.

### They do this so when you crank the switch, the moveable
rotor[s] will pass right BETWEEN the new "double commons" .

### This switch was used in a simple PI net. Wafer #3 [closest
to tank coils] has the 1" wide straps going to each tank
coil tap. [folded like an L... to get max space between
contacts] .

### The OUTPUT of this mess comes from the "commons" on wafer
#1 ! The output of course... is strapped [with more 1" wide
strap] directly to the far end of the tank coil [low freq end]
+ the vac load cap.

### This arangement allows for more equal RF current distribution
between all 3 x wafers.

### The only drawback to the above scheme is the use of a single
pole rotor. With a total of 14 uh [12 uh multronics coil + a
separate 2 uh hb 20-17-15m coil] it works.... barely. IF
we increase the total inductance by 1-2 uh.... the high bands go
straight to hell ! You really need multiple shorts.

### What's needed is a MULTIPLE POLE ROTOR. Now Multi-
tech inc... will custom build these too. On my own 3 x wafer
switch's [these are model 88's 13 kv @ 40A per wafer] I had
em build me 3 x 5 pole rotor's [one per wafer].

### Now with a multiple pole rotor... you can have all the total
tank coil inducatnce you want..... the drawback with a multiple pole
rotor... is, when rotated.... the extra 4 x poles will come
back around... so you can only use a total of 6 x tank coil
taps.... and not 10 !!

### On the single rotor model 85 scheme... it covers 8
bands... 160-80-60-40-30-20-17-15 m

### On a multiple rotor setup.. [5 x rotors required... so when on
highest band, all other taps are shorted.] 6 x bands are the max
u can get. 160-80-40-20-17-15 m

### origionally, I bought two 2 x wafer model 88's from KM1H.
Multi tech supplied the bits and pieces to convert one of em
from a 2 x wafer... to a 3 wafer [ new longer solid steatite
insulator that runs right down the middle.. 2 x new longer "tie-rod
ends", etc. The 2nd 2 x wafer switch was modified to a single
wafer switch.... used to change HV sec taps on the Dahl plate xfmr.

### It was faster.. and "cheaper" to modify 2 x switch's.. than
buying 2 x new ones. My buddy lucked out when he came across a
triple wafer model 85.

### The 3 x wafer 85 or 88 switch is bullet proof... so
far. [6800 V @ 3 A] On a simple PI net... we keep the loaded
tank Q on the low side.... to minimize circulating current through
the 3 x wafers... and the various tank coils.... + vac tune/load
cap.

### BTW... my switches although 10 x pos units [model 88], only
came equipped with 4 riveted contacts per wafer. I bought
the extra contacts [cheap]... and they supplied the silver plated
2-56 machine screws and hardware to mount em to the ceramic
wafers. The actual 1" wide straps going from switch contacts
to tank coil taps.. are terminated on wafer #3.. with 6-32
silver plated hardware.

Later... Jim VE7RF

Am 04.10.2006 um 21:56 schrieb pentalab:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., Frank Goenninger <frgo@...>
wrote:

Am 04.10.2006 um 15:17 schrieb PA3DUV:

Euro 175.- to get concerted from single phase service to 3

phase

service in the Lowlands. For that money you'll get:

3 fuses
a new 3 phase digital power/kWh meter

3 x 35 amps @ 400 VAC ( 42 kW AC, gud for 25 kW RF output ) =

the

same monthly fee compared to single phase service.
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV

Don't know if Peter already pointed out but in Germany 3 phase

mains

is standard for every house / building. The infrastructure is part

of

the standard installation. I do have 3 x 45 amps at 400 V AC as

the

mains entry into our house. No extra fees for 3 phase service or

its

installation.

A small plus in little Germany. But we have the paperworks no one
else in the world has to do...

#### 45 A per leg x 3 legs = 54 kva total. Now here's
the question. How many homes on one xfmr out in the street ??

... my local situation here: small village with 3000 people ...

My street has a separate Xfmr,,, 19 houses on it. All "normal" home, no ham op in there except me. Basically I don't care how many houses there are - as long as I get my mains supply as promised by contract at 45A per leg. Fuses btw. are actually 63A (I checked after Peter V. posted here ...;-)

Never had any trouble so far (although I didn't go beyond 30 A single phase with any amp yet).

73 Frank DG1SBG

Sorry,

Power in a 3-phase supply is:

P=sqrt3*U*I*cos phi
P=1,73*400*35=24220

Indeed, for 25KW out one needs 45KVA, but only in class B.
67% efficiency is a bit high in class AB, it will be around 63% minus loss
in the pi-network.
Some of the output in a GG amp is coming from the driver, so efficiency is
NOT= output*100%/input power...

73
Peter

________________________________

From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
On Behalf Of pentalab

--- In ham_amplifiers@...
<mailto:ham_amplifiers%40yahoogroups.com> , "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@...>
wrote:

Hi Dick,

3x35A is a 230/400V 25KW inlet.
For 40KW 63A fuses are to be installed, mine are 80A

### whoa. 35 A x 400 V = 14 kw per phase. x 3 phases = 42
kva.

### To get 25 kw out [assuming 67 % eff on the lower bands]
25,000/ .67 = 37,323 watts of DC input. = 37.323 x 1.21 = 45.149
Kva.

From: R L Measures <r@...>
Date: October 4, 2006 11:52:44 AM PDT
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Re: Hi-


On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:40 AM, craxd wrote:

See Below,

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Oct 4, 2006, at 3:30 AM, craxd wrote:

Mike,

The kicker is, this un-named moderator said "You have been given a
wide degree of latitude - wider than many others". For what, offering
technical advice to any who asked for it? They also said "You hang out
here without any amateur call and no professional credentials other
than as an admitted former designer and builder of amplifiers for CB
service". Yup, I sure did build um, and did learn a heck of a lot
while doing it. What is his credentials,

He is one of our "recognized amplifier experts".
- Tom Rauch, W8JI, Nov. 1994 *QST* magazine

I've not had the chance to read that one. What was it about?

Will -- My mistake, it was on p.71 of the September, 1994 issue of QST magazine where Tom writes: "Although VHF and UHF parasitics are undesireable effects. and must be avoided, there is no basis in amplifier tube theory or actual experience to support such conclusions. They are not supported by design theory or the experience of recognized amplifier experts in the RF amplifier design community that include Eimac, Siemens, ETO, Henry, and Ameritron." Since ETO is Dick and Ameritron is Tom, Dick and Tom are "recognized amplifier experts", and this according to a guy who says that Ni-Cr alloys have reverse skin effect and that the conventions of AC circuit analysis do not apply to R/L VHF parasitic suppressors. . . . George Grammar, W1DF, QST Technical Editor during the 1950s. was probably turning over in his grave.
Background: Around September of 1993, I received a letter from QST Technical Topics Column Editor Paul Pagel asking me to write another article for QST about amplifiers. The result was "The Nearly Perfect Amplifier", which appeared in the January, 1994 issue of the magazine. The article outlined things which a perfect or nearly amplifier would have. Examples were step-start to limit inrush-I, T/ R, R/T switching that was Faster than that of transceivers in order to prevent hotswitching, filament-potential adjusting potentiometer to maximize emissive life, lower-Q VHF parasitic oscillation suppressors to improve stability, the use of a grid fusing element, a glitch resistor in the HV+ lead to limit peak-I during an anomaly, and potting the HV transformer to reduce hygroscopic absorbption and improve heat transfer. The article apparently lit the fuse of Tom Rauch, W8JI, (MFJ-Ameritron) and the even shorter fuse of Dick Ehrhorn W0ID (!) (ETO/Alpha), whereupon they apparently began kvetching to the magazine that they should be allowed to write a rebuttal that would be published in Technical Topics. Quite probably since MFJ and ETO were major advertisers in QST, this got QST's attention and QST agreed to publish the rebuttal.
As I see it, publishing the rebuttal was the only fair thing to do. However, to be fair, my reply to the abundance of questionable statements made therein also needed to be aired. The problem was that QST Editor Mark Wilson. AA2Z, refused. As a result, I launched my Web site and published my reply to the rebuttal

so that QST subscribers could see what the QST Editor did not want them to see.

call, or name for that
matter? If you remember, Tom asked me what my credentials was, and
where I went to school too. Don't it sound fishy that he would ask the
same right after?

And he has not yet taken a class in alternating-current circuit
analysis.

Then went on to say, "It is no appropriate for you
to get your back up when you are asked for credentials after
questioning not one but several of the academic standards of tube
design and operation". What academic standard did I ever question?

You questioned Tom's spin on it.

I quoted authors like Terman. The only one I ever questioned was Tom,
and showed what he was saying was pure hogwash by quoting published authors!

That's his modus operandi.

Then he has the balls to say, "If you are going to question
those academic works,

Translation: Tom's cockamamie spin on it.

you need to be willing disclose your credentials
(if your PhD in Physics or Electrical Engineering?), allow them to
be examined and provide a list of your peer (academically) reviewed
research work (CV) in the field for examination.".

Sounds like a Smoke screen to me.

I felt the same way!

In Deutche, "rauch" means smoke.

One doesn't need a
PhD, a Ms, or Bs if they have a knowledge of the theory. Does this
mean that to be an amateur operator, one needs to have these degrees?
I actually have a degree through Ky. State Vo-Tech, but wasn't going
to tell him this. Nor, do you have to publish any papers to be
correct. Matter of fact, they've been several PhD's proven dead wrong!
Then, he goes on to say things about Rich that was to me plain liable
and slanderous (I'll bet they would be in court),

Try asking W8JI if he ever paid Lon Cottingham, K5JV, the $600 for
the Signal-One parts Lon sold him?

and I won't show
them here.

Please do so.

Since you okay it : )

I relish such things.

Quote;

"The thing that gets Rich Measures in trouble is that his
writings HAVE been peer reviewed and been denounced as snake
oil by academics,

Tom Rauch an academician? -- he's never taken a class in the very basis of RF amplifier design -- alternating current circuit analysis.

responsible engineers from every major tube
builder,

The only person from a tube mfg that he got to go along with his dicta was his buddy Reid Brandon, the Eimac Customer Relations guy -- who told QST's Paul Pagel that Eimac's Chief Specifications Engineer, Willis B. Foote was not authorized to tell me that gold-sputtering from the grid was thought to be caused by a UHF oscillation condition.

RF design engineers from many companies ranging from
amateur manufacturers to MRI/ISM amplifier builders and
several major broadcast transmitter manufacturers.

Guffaw. The clue word here is "many" because he fails to list the companies.

Measures'
material has all the earmarks of a "good con" ... just enough
truth to give it a patina of believability to the untrained
and impressionable".

Thanks, Will.

This all over Tom trying to argue that a control grid could
become positive.

It can and definitely does so in a grounded-grid amplifier during
most of the negative half of the driving cycle.

No, If you remember, I did say that that was the only case.
What he was getting at was it could become positive with the
grid disconnected from ground, and if I remember, there was
another way which we both collared him on.

With air in the tube, the grid can go positive provided that the anode is sufficiently positive to make the O^2 and N^2 atoms ionize

It may be less negative than the cathode, or one
might say it's more positive than the cathode, but it sure can't be
positive with respect to ground or 0 Vdc!

Ground Is Not the reference point for grid potential, it's the
cathode. Example: If the cathode is neg. 1500v (to ground) and the
grid is neg. 1490v (to ground), the grid potential is positive 10v.

Correct, I'm not saying that and agree, but it is all still
negative with respect to chassis ground or the 0 Vdc point.

It does not matter a whit what the grid-chassis potential is, the only thing that locally effects the emitted electrons is the potential Between the cathode and the grid.

It could never be positive in respect to it, especially if
it's tied directlly to it.

Tying the grid to the cathode is a whole nuther ballgame, Will.

Remember him saying a grid could
become positive when being bombarded by electrons, especially
if it were disconnected from ground?

He's assuming gas ionization between the positive anode and the floating grid. The purpose of Tom's argument is to try and explain bursts of grid-I by a means Other than an intermittent VHF parasitic oscillation. During the parasitics debate, trying to explain why no gas could be found in tubes that had popped their grid fuse, he claimed that gassy tubes can getter themselves on the way to being tested in a high potential tester. -- no fooling.

...

Editorial -- The only kind of discussion that works well is the wide

open kind, where there is no censor-librorum/moderator/
administrator.

It's the only way to get at the root of a matter and find the truth.
...

In other words, he was hanging me out to dry to look like a fool over
not letting Tom be wrong.

That's why Richard George reasoned that Tom was most likely the
unidentified Administrator/censor.

I reasoned the same myself, but still can't prove it. Someone
claimed they knew it wasn't Tom, but I'd like to see proof. If
one is ashamed to, or to scared to show who they are, they don't
need to be a moderator.

A participant in a discussion can not be the censor of the discussion because it would stink even more than fresh feces. .

Well, that was it, I started by-passing him
with direct e-mails to the members that I had in my address book.

The rest was, well history. ; )

With Tom, The cardinal sin is neutralizing his control over others.

He sure has his control in this moderator.

But he can't control us bailouts.

...

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., Frank Goenninger <frgo@...>
wrote:

Am 04.10.2006 um 15:17 schrieb PA3DUV:

Euro 175.- to get concerted from single phase service to 3

phase

service in the Lowlands. For that money you'll get:

3 fuses
a new 3 phase digital power/kWh meter

3 x 35 amps @ 400 VAC ( 42 kW AC, gud for 25 kW RF output ) =

the

same monthly fee compared to single phase service.
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV

Don't know if Peter already pointed out but in Germany 3 phase

mains

is standard for every house / building. The infrastructure is part

of

the standard installation. I do have 3 x 45 amps at 400 V AC as

the

mains entry into our house. No extra fees for 3 phase service or

its

installation.

A small plus in little Germany. But we have the paperworks no one
else in the world has to do...

#### 45 A per leg x 3 legs = 54 kva total. Now here's
the question. How many homes on one xfmr out in the street ??

### I'm assuming since ur ripple freq is 300 hz..... ur power
from the street is 50 hz ??

### ZL's tell me... trying to run a Drake L4B power supply on
50 hz cooks the plate xfmr. Anything designed for 60 hz....
when run on 50 hz... has to be severly de-rated.... including
Papst blowers/fans... xfmr's etc.

## In Japan... it appears they use 200/100 V @ 50 hz single
phase... per home.

### Here in NA... you pay through the nose to have 3 phase
power.... typ 208/120 v.... and only for business's, machine
shops, telco's, etc.

### a 42 suite typ condominium consists of 208 v/120v... 3 x
phase... and 1200 A fuse PER leg.[entire building] Each
suite only gets 208/120 V SINGLE phase.

## for the big power consumption..... we use 480 V , 3 phase
at some of our telco's. We buy the power at 12,500 V and
step it down to 480 v..[via a 3 phase 2500 kva xfmr,20,000+
lbs]..used for the +54 vdc 800A rectifiers [40 kw each... x 8
of em]. The +54 vdc is fed to 24 x 2500 A hour cells [each
550 lbs. wired in series with buss bars]..... which makes up just
one string. We then parallel 10 x such strings together.. [with
4 x 4" x 1/4" thick buss bars in parallel.

### I saw a piece of threaded rod fall from the ceiling into
this mess once yrs ago [it was hilti anchored, along with lots
more]... the rod actually went from a solid to a gas.... and
nobody saw it pass through the liquid stage either ! Sounded
like a 120 mm howitzer going off in an enclosed room.

## In some cases the power co has upgraded from 12.5 kv to 25
kv. In those cases... the power co used special pole pigs...
that dropped the 25 kv down to 12.5 kv..... we buy it at 12.5
kv..... then drop it down to 208/120 v..... via a 450 kva CCS
xfmr. [4000 lbs]

### For a back up gen set... it's a V-16...with a 2000 kva 3
phase 480v generator..... made by Stamford Co.... in Stamford
Conn. Pistons like paint cans.

### During the recent BPL debate... it was pointed out that in
some parts of Europe, as many as 700 residences were running from
one xfmr !!

### On my recent trip to Turkey for a month.... in most smaller
towns... I never saw ANY pole mounted xfmr's anywhere !! I did
see miles of aluminium 3 x phase running every where.... and what
appeared to be just 2 x hot legs per home on each drop wire....
and they got 220 V @ 50 hz.

### sri for the drivel......... later.. Jim VE7RF

73, Frank

On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:51 AM, craxd wrote:

Rich,

I forget what they call that now, but they sure are! There's a minimum
you pay whether you use it or not.

I think it's called a monthly standby charge.

Best,

Will

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

Sometimes, a 3-0 service has a monthly minimum charge that will blow

the hat clean off of one's head.

On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:26 AM, ad4hk2004 wrote:

Being that my Bridgeport mill is 1.5 HP, I use a rotary convertor

to

change the 220X1 to 220X3... Not perfect but it works...
I did consider asking Consumers Power Co. to give me a price for 3
phase to the shop... But getting underground power to my house
required my atty petitioning the court for a 'show cause' order -
insiders at the company tell me their field supervisor is still
smarting from the corporate VP giving him a public chewing out

over

that one - I suspect the bill would spin my hat...



denny

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "craxd" <craxd1@> wrote:

A 3 phase service is mighty fine to have if one can afford to

have it

put in. I've not checked on the price in a while, but back in

1985, a

200 amp 220 volt service ran around $2000 from the power company

for

the transformers, and the service entrance, meter base, etc was
extra.
I was having one put in at my machine shop building I had at the
time.
I wish I had the health back to do all that again. At the time I

had

an electric shop running, and a machine and assembly shop a

couple of

miles up the road. I used to design and build custom fab

machinery

for
the railroads. Sure is a good business to be in. Anyhow, 3 phase

can

sure make life a lot easier if you plan on running reverseable
motors,
and anything else that needs some umph behind it. One could do it

with
a pony motor, but I'm not sure how good that would work.

Back in the old days, and some do this now, is run a generator
(really
an alternator without the rectifier stack) in a mobile supplying

LV 3

phase to run a HV transformer. That get's you out of running an
inverter. A certain company down in Memphis, Tn used to supply a
mobile kW (1800 PEP out) with the generator that way. I here

about a

guy in Florida building these today, and was buying the

transformers

from Galaxy Transformer. I recon he's built a few with tubes with
handles. Of course you need enough engine to run it too.

Best,

Will


--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@>
wrote:

To achieve 1,5% ripple from a 6-pulse power supply of 5KV at 3A

you

will

need a capacitor of 0,32???F.
Without any cap ripple will be 4%.
You will not here any hum from a transmitter without capacitor

in

the

6-pulse capacitor when using sideband transmissions.
From a carrier you here little hum on zerobeat.

The formula to find C for the 3-phase bridge circuit is the same

as

for any

other circuit, just calculate C from XC by using 300Hz in the

formula.

How the transformer is connected does not matter, usually the

primary will

be delta for best efficiency and the secondary will be star

connected.

You will have 2 diodes per leg. The voltage across one winding

is

dc/sqrt6.

I my 7KV 4A CCS P/S I use UGE1112AY4 diodes by IXCYS, 3 per leg,

just scewed

one into the next.



The transformer secondary is 5KV +/-5%, +/-10% phase to phase,

or

2887V

across one winding.
I use 2???F 10KV for smoothing and a crowbar overload circuit
with it.

73
Peter


________________________________

From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:

ham_amplifiers@...]

On Behalf Of pentalab

Then, if we talk 3-phase supply and 6-puls rectifying,
lets say around 5 kV DC potential, how much glitch C
is needed to achieve 1.5 percent ripple?

### Dunno. You would only have 5% ripple with NO cap.... and
with a resonant choke set up.....you probably wouldn't need any
C at all ! [3 phase]

### IF no resonant choke setup... and just a straight C input
filter.... I'm guessing around 5-16 uf would be plenty. It
would also highly depend on the load.

### I haven't found any formulae for a C input filter HV
supply........ with 3 phase. I don't have access to 3 phase....
so never pursued it. It would be the ultimate setup. IF you
find anything... let me know... as I'm most interested. Somebody
is going to ask me to engineer one for em... so I had better
research it.

### I did see some info on C input 3 phase HV supplies some
where.... it's in Orr's older books.... but not alot of info.
Seems to me he had the 3 x primary's connected in a "Delta".....
and the 3 x secondary's tied in a.. "star". The rectifier set
up... if I remember, sorta looked like just 2 x diodes per sec
winding... one flipped around If I remember. The RMS voltage
per sec winding vs no load HVDC output is what threw me.
With say a 1 kv sec.... I'm positive... the OCV hv wasn't 1414
Vdc. [I may well be wrong with this.. just going by memory]

Yahoo! Groups Links

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

On Oct 4, 2006, at 6:22 AM, craxd wrote:

All,

I have a HP 412A VTVM coming in, and I'm wondering what others may
know about these?

I used to calibrate them. The input Z of the 412 is so high that accuracy is affected by tobacco and cannibis sativa smoke.

Anything I should look for, etc.? These don't have
the rectifier tube in the probe like the 410 models do, but supposed
to be as accurate by what I read from an old HP catalog reprint.

Also, I still have a few pieces of test equipment for sell. I'll sell
these seperate, or all together. I have an Associated Research Hypot
4kV $40, a Megohmeter by Freed Transformer $20, a B&K audio generator
$15, and a Data Precsion 5-1/2 digit DMM $20. Or, I'll take $65 for
the lot. S&H extra. I'll e-mail photos to any interested.

Thanks,

Will







Yahoo! Groups Links

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

On Oct 4, 2006, at 8:14 AM, Hsu wrote:

Hi,
This is the biggst RF power band switch what I have seen!

I have some swaitch. I'm plan to use it in my next project:(1-2)
4CX1000A amplifier, but I think
it should be use in more power amplifier.

Hsu -- The only band-switch that is too big is one that won't fit in
the output compartment.

73! Hsu

----- Original Message -----
From: FRANCIS CARCIA
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:53 PM
Subject: [金山毒霸识别此邮件为垃圾邮件]Re:
[ham_amplifiers] Rotary Switches

model 86 switches barely enough for a 4-1000A model 88 switches
work well in QRO if you parallel a couple sets of contacts. I built
a custom one with 3 decks 2 used for the inductor taps. It has 4
wipers and double contacts on each deck. The third wafer does a
plate tune padder. Never hurt it with a 4CX3000A. SS prices are a
rip off is the general rule. i built mine for less than $50.

jmltinc@... wrote:

Can anyone tell me how to select unmarked wafer switches for RF
switching, such as e-shopping at Surplus Sales?

What is the general rule regarding contact spacing vs HV? If
unmarked, how do I get into the ballpark of current handling
capability? Any other concerns?

Thanks,
John, N9RF
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:50 AM, jmltinc@... wrote:

Can anyone tell me how to select unmarked wafer switches for RF switching, such as e-shopping at Surplus Sales?

What is the general rule regarding contact spacing vs HV?

Measure the BDV with a high potential tester. The safe peak RF potential is about 2/3 of that. The same rule of thumb applies to vacuum caps.

If unmarked, how do I get into the ballpark of current handling capability?

Due to skin effect, RF current capability is c. 1/4 of the mfg's DC rating. Forced air cooling a band-switch is definitely not a bad idea.

Any other concerns?

Thanks,
John, N9RF
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:40 AM, craxd wrote:

See Below,

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Oct 4, 2006, at 3:30 AM, craxd wrote:

Mike,

The kicker is, this un-named moderator said "You have been given a
wide degree of latitude - wider than many others". For what,

offering

technical advice to any who asked for it? They also said "You hang

out

here without any amateur call and no professional credentials

other

than as an admitted former designer and builder of amplifiers for

CB

service". Yup, I sure did build um, and did learn a heck of a lot
while doing it. What is his credentials,

He is one of our "recognized amplifier experts".
- Tom Rauch, W8JI, Nov. 1994 *QST* magazine

I've not had the chance to read that one. What was it about?

Will -- My mistake, it was on p.71 of the September, 1994 issue of QST magazine where Tom writes: "Although VHF and UHF parasitics are undesireable effects. and must be avoided, there is no basis in amplifier tube theory or actual experience to support such conclusions. They are not supported by design theory or the experience of recognized amplifier experts in the RF amplifier design community that include Eimac, Siemens, ETO, Henry, and Ameritron." Since ETO is Dick and Ameritron is Tom, Dick and Tom are "recognized amplifier experts", and this according to a guy who says that Ni-Cr alloys have reverse skin effect and that the conventions of AC circuit analysis do not apply to R/L VHF parasitic suppressors. . . . George Grammar, W1DF, QST Technical Editor during the 1950s. was probably turning over in his grave.
Background: Around September of 1993, I received a letter from QST Technical Topics Column Editor Paul Pagel asking me to write another article for QST about amplifiers. The result was "The Nearly Perfect Amplifier", which appeared in the January, 1994 issue of the magazine. The article outlined things which a perfect or nearly amplifier would have. Examples were step-start to limit inrush-I, T/ R, R/T switching that was Faster than that of transceivers in order to prevent hotswitching, filament-potential adjusting potentiometer to maximize emissive life, lower-Q VHF parasitic oscillation suppressors to improve stability, the use of a grid fusing element, a glitch resistor in the HV+ lead to limit peak-I during an anomaly, and potting the HV transformer to reduce hygroscopic absorbption and improve heat transfer. The article apparently lit the fuse of Tom Rauch, W8JI, (MFJ-Ameritron) and the even shorter fuse of Dick Ehrhorn W0ID (!) (ETO/Alpha), whereupon they apparently began kvetching to the magazine that they should be allowed to write a rebuttal that would be published in Technical Topics. Quite probably since MFJ and ETO were major advertisers in QST, this got QST's attention and QST agreed to publish the rebuttal.
As I see it, publishing the rebuttal was the only fair thing to do. However, to be fair, my reply to the abundance of questionable statements made therein also needed to be aired. The problem was that QST Editor Mark Wilson. AA2Z, refused. As a result, I launched my Web site and published my reply to the rebuttal

so that QST subscribers could see what the QST Editor did not want them to see.

call, or name for that
matter? If you remember, Tom asked me what my credentials was, and
where I went to school too. Don't it sound fishy that he would ask the
same right after?

And he has not yet taken a class in alternating-current circuit
analysis.

Then went on to say, "It is no appropriate for you
to get your back up when you are asked for credentials after
questioning not one but several of the academic standards of tube
design and operation". What academic standard did I ever question?

You questioned Tom's spin on it.

I
quoted authors like Terman. The only one I ever questioned was Tom,
and showed what he was saying was pure hogwash by quoting published authors!

That's his modus operandi.

Then he has the balls to say, "If you are going to question
those academic works,

Translation: Tom's cockamamie spin on it.

you need to be willing disclose your credentials
(if your PhD in Physics or Electrical Engineering?), allow them to
be examined and provide a list of your peer (academically) reviewed
research work (CV) in the field for examination.".

Sounds like a Smoke screen to me.

I felt the same way!

In Deutche, "rauch" means smoke.

One doesn't need a
PhD, a Ms, or Bs if they have a knowledge of the theory. Does this
mean that to be an amateur operator, one needs to have these degrees?
I actually have a degree through Ky. State Vo-Tech, but wasn't going
to tell him this. Nor, do you have to publish any papers to be
correct. Matter of fact, they've been several PhD's proven dead wrong!
Then, he goes on to say things about Rich that was to me plain liable
and slanderous (I'll bet they would be in court),

Try asking W8JI if he ever paid Lon Cottingham, K5JV, the $600 for
the Signal-One parts Lon sold him?

and I won't show
them here.

Please do so.

Since you okay it : )

I relish such things.

Quote;

"The thing that gets Rich Measures in trouble is that his
writings HAVE been peer reviewed and been denounced as snake
oil by academics,

Tom Rauch an academician? -- he's never taken a class in the very basis of RF amplifier design -- alternating current circuit analysis.

responsible engineers from every major tube
builder,

The only person from a tube mfg that he got to go along with his dicta was his buddy Reid Brandon, the Eimac Customer Relations guy -- who told QST's Paul Pagel that Eimac's Chief Specifications Engineer, Willis B. Foote was not authorized to tell me that gold-sputtering from the grid was thought to be caused by a UHF oscillation condition.

RF design engineers from many companies ranging from
amateur manufacturers to MRI/ISM amplifier builders and
several major broadcast transmitter manufacturers.

Guffaw. The clue word here is "many" because he fails to list the companies.

Measures'
material has all the earmarks of a "good con" ... just enough
truth to give it a patina of believability to the untrained
and impressionable".

Thanks, Will.

This all over Tom trying to argue that a control grid could
become positive.

It can and definitely does so in a grounded-grid amplifier during
most of the negative half of the driving cycle.

No, If you remember, I did say that that was the only case.
What he was getting at was it could become positive with the
grid disconnected from ground, and if I remember, there was
another way which we both collared him on.

With air in the tube, the grid can go positive provided that the anode is sufficiently positive to make the O^2 and N^2 atoms ionize

It may be less negative than the cathode, or one
might say it's more positive than the cathode, but it sure can't be
positive with respect to ground or 0 Vdc!

Ground Is Not the reference point for grid potential, it's the
cathode. Example: If the cathode is neg. 1500v (to ground) and the
grid is neg. 1490v (to ground), the grid potential is positive 10v.

Correct, I'm not saying that and agree, but it is all still
negative with respect to chassis ground or the 0 Vdc point.

It does not matter a whit what the grid-chassis potential is, the only thing that locally effects the emitted electrons is the potential Between the cathode and the grid.

It could never be positive in respect to it, especially if
it's tied directlly to it.

Tying the grid to the cathode is a whole nuther ballgame, Will.

Remember him saying a grid could
become positive when being bombarded by electrons, especially
if it were disconnected from ground?

He's assuming gas ionization between the positive anode and the floating grid. The purpose of Tom's argument is to try and explain bursts of grid-I by a means Other than an intermittent VHF parasitic oscillation. During the parasitics debate, trying to explain why no gas could be found in tubes that had popped their grid fuse, he claimed that gassy tubes can getter themselves on the way to being tested in a high potential tester. -- no fooling.

...

Editorial -- The only kind of discussion that works well is the wide

open kind, where there is no censor-librorum/moderator/
administrator.

It's the only way to get at the root of a matter and find the truth.
...

In other words, he was hanging me out to dry to look like a fool over
not letting Tom be wrong.

That's why Richard George reasoned that Tom was most likely the
unidentified Administrator/censor.

I reasoned the same myself, but still can't prove it. Someone
claimed they knew it wasn't Tom, but I'd like to see proof. If
one is ashamed to, or to scared to show who they are, they don't
need to be a moderator.

A participant in a discussion can not be the censor of the discussion because it would stink even more than fresh feces. .

Well, that was it, I started by-passing him
with direct e-mails to the members that I had in my address book.

The rest was, well history. ; )

With Tom, The cardinal sin is neutralizing his control over others.

He sure has his control in this moderator.

But he can't control us bailouts.

...

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

I don't know a model 85 from a Model T, or a model 88 from a Rocket 88
(remember those?). I can't hi-pot a switch online.

How can I select a candidate online, in a catalog, or at a hamfest if no no
specifications are known or the switch has no identifying marks?

Thanks again,
-J

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@...>
wrote:

Hi Dick,

3x35A is a 230/400V 25KW inlet.
For 40KW 63A fuses are to be installed, mine are 80A

### whoa. 35 A x 400 V = 14 kw per phase. x 3 phases = 42
kva.

### To get 25 kw out [assuming 67 % eff on the lower bands]
25,000/ .67 = 37,323 watts of DC input. = 37.323 x 1.21 = 45.149
Kva.

73 Jim VE7RF

73
Peter

_____

From: ham_amplifiers@...

[mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]

On Behalf Of PA3DUV
Sent: Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2006 15:18
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Re: 3 - phase HV supply




Euro 175.- to get concerted from single phase service to 3 phase

service in

the Lowlands. For that money you'll get:

3 fuses
a new 3 phase digital power/kWh meter

3 x 35 amps @ 400 VAC ( 42 kW AC, gud for 25 kW RF output ) = the

same

monthly fee compared to single phase service.
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV

Hi Dick,

That sounds like a rather poor regulation for a 3-phase power supply.
Is your mains voltage already dropping?
I guess the transformer might be a bit too small to deliver 10KW, or is the
3-phase p/s heavier then 45kg?
Here at 7,5KV the B+ is dropping to 7,25KV loaded by 3A (load C=2mmF)

I had a look at the DX4 manual. They use a simple pi-net with a balun
output, no pi-L?
How good is the harmonic supression of it? I calculate just 30dbs on the
second and 43dbs on the third harmonic.

73
Peter

________________________________

From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
On Behalf Of PA3DUV

The circuit diagram of the Emtron DX4 3 phase power supply can be found in
the
file section on
<>
It use the plate transformer in delta on the primary and star on the
secondary.
A FWD and 58 uf cap bank is used, output 3.2 kV, @ 3.5 amps peak the B+
drops to 3 kV

Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV