I don't know a model 85 from a Model T, or a model 88 from a Rocket 88
(remember those?). I can't hi-pot a switch online.

How can I select a candidate online, in a catalog, or at a hamfest if no no
specifications are known or the switch has no identifying marks?

Thanks again,
-J

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@...>
wrote:

Hi Dick,

3x35A is a 230/400V 25KW inlet.
For 40KW 63A fuses are to be installed, mine are 80A

### whoa. 35 A x 400 V = 14 kw per phase. x 3 phases = 42
kva.

### To get 25 kw out [assuming 67 % eff on the lower bands]
25,000/ .67 = 37,323 watts of DC input. = 37.323 x 1.21 = 45.149
Kva.

73 Jim VE7RF

73
Peter

_____

From: ham_amplifiers@...

[mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]

On Behalf Of PA3DUV
Sent: Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2006 15:18
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Re: 3 - phase HV supply




Euro 175.- to get concerted from single phase service to 3 phase

service in

the Lowlands. For that money you'll get:

3 fuses
a new 3 phase digital power/kWh meter

3 x 35 amps @ 400 VAC ( 42 kW AC, gud for 25 kW RF output ) = the

same

monthly fee compared to single phase service.
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV

Hi Dick,

That sounds like a rather poor regulation for a 3-phase power supply.
Is your mains voltage already dropping?
I guess the transformer might be a bit too small to deliver 10KW, or is the
3-phase p/s heavier then 45kg?
Here at 7,5KV the B+ is dropping to 7,25KV loaded by 3A (load C=2mmF)

I had a look at the DX4 manual. They use a simple pi-net with a balun
output, no pi-L?
How good is the harmonic supression of it? I calculate just 30dbs on the
second and 43dbs on the third harmonic.

73
Peter

________________________________

From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
On Behalf Of PA3DUV

The circuit diagram of the Emtron DX4 3 phase power supply can be found in
the
file section on
<>
It use the plate transformer in delta on the primary and star on the
secondary.
A FWD and 58 uf cap bank is used, output 3.2 kV, @ 3.5 amps peak the B+
drops to 3 kV

Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV

Am 04.10.2006 um 15:17 schrieb PA3DUV:

Euro 175.- to get concerted from single phase service to 3 phase service in the Lowlands. For that money you'll get:

3 fuses
a new 3 phase digital power/kWh meter

3 x 35 amps @ 400 VAC ( 42 kW AC, gud for 25 kW RF output ) = the same monthly fee compared to single phase service.
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV

Don't know if Peter already pointed out but in Germany 3 phase mains is standard for every house / building. The infrastructure is part of the standard installation. I do have 3 x 45 amps at 400 V AC as the mains entry into our house. No extra fees for 3 phase service or its installation.

A small plus in little Germany. But we have the paperworks no one else in the world has to do...

73, Frank

开云体育

Sasha,

That's a joke! Most houses in the Lowlands are pre wired for 3 phase mains.
I build my house in the mid 90's and the service panel has 4 wires + ground coming in. They only need to add 2 fuses and change out the meter. The utility is Essent and they charged me 175 Euros to do it. I had to rewire everything after the meter myself and add a three phase breaker and diff switch. That was an easy job though and did not cost me near Euro 1000.- ;-))

Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV

开云体育

开云体育

model 86 switches barely enough for a 4-1000A? model 88 switches work well in QRO if you parallel a couple sets of contacts. I built a custom one with 3 decks 2 used for the inductor taps. It has 4 wipers and double contacts on each deck. The third wafer does a plate tune padder. Never hurt it with a 4CX3000A. SS prices are a rip off is the general rule. i built mine for less than $50.

jmltinc@... wrote:

Dick,

That's a heck of a lot cheaper than here in the states.
Esentially, the monthly charge here is renting the transformers,
even though you pay the large fee to have them hung on the pole
and connected to the service you install (they are good enough
to give you three meters LOL). In the US, they nickel and dime
you to death, especially every little tax they can think of.
And to think, we fought the Revolutionary War over not wanting
to pay taxes to England! Here, the poor pay the tax, and the
rich prosper. I'm all for a flat tax where everyone except the
ones under the poverty level pay the same percentage. I'll never
see it in my lifetime I doubt.

Best,

Will


--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "PA3DUV" <pa3duv@...> wrote:

Euro 175.- to get concerted from single phase service to 3 phase

service in the Lowlands. For that money you'll get:

3 fuses
a new 3 phase digital power/kWh meter

3 x 35 amps @ 400 VAC ( 42 kW AC, gud for 25 kW RF output ) = the

same monthly fee compared to single phase service.

Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV



----- Original Message -----
From: R L Measures
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Re: 3 - phase HV supply


Sometimes, a 3-0 service has a monthly minimum charge that will

blow

the hat clean off of one's head.

On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:26 AM, ad4hk2004 wrote:

> Being that my Bridgeport mill is 1.5 HP, I use a rotary

convertor to

> change the 220X1 to 220X3... Not perfect but it works...
> I did consider asking Consumers Power Co. to give me a price for

3

> phase to the shop... But getting underground power to my house
> required my atty petitioning the court for a 'show cause' order

-

> insiders at the company tell me their field supervisor is still
> smarting from the corporate VP giving him a public chewing out

over

> that one - I suspect the bill would spin my hat...
>
>
>
> denny
>
> --- In ham_amplifiers@..., "craxd" <craxd1@> wrote:
>>
>> A 3 phase service is mighty fine to have if one can afford to

have it

>> put in. I've not checked on the price in a while, but back in

1985, a

>> 200 amp 220 volt service ran around $2000 from the power

company for

>> the transformers, and the service entrance, meter base, etc was
>> extra.
>> I was having one put in at my machine shop building I had at

the

>> time.
>> I wish I had the health back to do all that again. At the time

I had

>> an electric shop running, and a machine and assembly shop a

couple of

>> miles up the road. I used to design and build custom fab

machinery

>> for
>> the railroads. Sure is a good business to be in. Anyhow, 3

phase can

>> sure make life a lot easier if you plan on running reverseable
>> motors,
>> and anything else that needs some umph behind it. One could do

it

>> with
>> a pony motor, but I'm not sure how good that would work.
>>
>> Back in the old days, and some do this now, is run a generator
>> (really
>> an alternator without the rectifier stack) in a mobile

supplying LV 3

>> phase to run a HV transformer. That get's you out of running an
>> inverter. A certain company down in Memphis, Tn used to supply

a

>> mobile kW (1800 PEP out) with the generator that way. I here

about a

>> guy in Florida building these today, and was buying the

transformers

>> from Galaxy Transformer. I recon he's built a few with tubes

with

>> handles. Of course you need enough engine to run it too.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>> --- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> To achieve 1,5% ripple from a 6-pulse power supply of 5KV at

3A you

>> will
>>> need a capacitor of 0,32???F.
>>> Without any cap ripple will be 4%.
>>> You will not here any hum from a transmitter without capacitor

in

>> the
>>> 6-pulse capacitor when using sideband transmissions.
>>> From a carrier you here little hum on zerobeat.
>>>
>>> The formula to find C for the 3-phase bridge circuit is the

same as

>> for any
>>> other circuit, just calculate C from XC by using 300Hz in the
>> formula.
>>> How the transformer is connected does not matter, usually the
>> primary will
>>> be delta for best efficiency and the secondary will be star
>> connected.
>>> You will have 2 diodes per leg. The voltage across one winding

is

>> dc/sqrt6.
>>>
>>> I my 7KV 4A CCS P/S I use UGE1112AY4 diodes by IXCYS, 3 per

leg,

>> just scewed
>>> one into the next.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The transformer secondary is 5KV +/-5%, +/-10% phase to phase,

or

>> 2887V
>>> across one winding.
>>> I use 2???F 10KV for smoothing and a crowbar overload circuit
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:
>> ham_amplifiers@...]
>>> On Behalf Of pentalab
>>>
>>>> Then, if we talk 3-phase supply and 6-puls rectifying,
>>>> lets say around 5 kV DC potential, how much glitch C
>>>> is needed to achieve 1.5 percent ripple?
>>>
>>> ### Dunno. You would only have 5% ripple with NO cap.... and
>>> with a resonant choke set up.....you probably wouldn't need

any

>>> C at all ! [3 phase]
>>>
>>> ### IF no resonant choke setup... and just a straight C input
>>> filter.... I'm guessing around 5-16 uf would be plenty. It
>>> would also highly depend on the load.
>>>
>>> ### I haven't found any formulae for a C input filter HV
>>> supply........ with 3 phase. I don't have access to 3 phase...

.

>>> so never pursued it. It would be the ultimate setup. IF you
>>> find anything... let me know... as I'm most interested.

Somebody

>>> is going to ask me to engineer one for em... so I had better
>>> research it.
>>>
>>> ### I did see some info on C input 3 phase HV supplies some
>>> where.... it's in Orr's older books.... but not alot of info.
>>> Seems to me he had the 3 x primary's connected in a "Delta"...

..

>>> and the 3 x secondary's tied in a.. "star". The rectifier set
>>> up... if I remember, sorta looked like just 2 x diodes per sec
>>> winding... one flipped around If I remember. The RMS voltage
>>> per sec winding vs no load HVDC output is what threw me.
>>> With say a 1 kv sec.... I'm positive... the OCV hv wasn't 1414
>>> Vdc. [I may well be wrong with this.. just going by memory]
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

Hi Dick,

That's not what I've been tolled by Eneco (power company)
in Capelle aan den IJssel when I moved into my new house
2 years ago. I forgot the actual quote, but it was more like in
the range of 1000.

Cheers,
Sasha YZ6X/PA

All,

I have a HP 412A VTVM coming in, and I'm wondering what others may
know about these? Anything I should look for, etc.? These don't have
the rectifier tube in the probe like the 410 models do, but supposed
to be as accurate by what I read from an old HP catalog reprint.

Also, I still have a few pieces of test equipment for sell. I'll sell
these seperate, or all together. I have an Associated Research Hypot
4kV $40, a Megohmeter by Freed Transformer $20, a B&K audio generator
$15, and a Data Precsion 5-1/2 digit DMM $20. Or, I'll take $65 for
the lot. S&H extra. I'll e-mail photos to any interested.

Thanks,

Will

开云体育

PA3DUV escribi:

Euro 175.- to get concerted from single phase service to 3 phase service in the Lowlands. For that money you'll get:
3 fuses
a new 3 phase digital power/kWh meter
3 x 35 amps @ 400 VAC ( 42 kW AC, gud for 25 kW RF output ) = the same

And nothing else working from the same line. :)

Best regards
Guillermo - LU8EYW.

monthly fee compared to single phase service.
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV
----- Original Message -----
*From:* R L Measures <mailto:r@...>
*To:* ham_amplifiers@...
<mailto:ham_amplifiers@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:38 PM
*Subject:* Re: [ham_amplifiers] Re: 3 - phase HV supply
Sometimes, a 3-0 service has a monthly minimum charge that will blow
the hat clean off of one's head.
On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:26 AM, ad4hk2004 wrote:

> Being that my Bridgeport mill is 1.5 HP, I use a rotary convertor to
> change the 220X1 to 220X3... Not perfect but it works...
> I did consider asking Consumers Power Co. to give me a price for 3
> phase to the shop... But getting underground power to my house
> required my atty petitioning the court for a 'show cause' order -
> insiders at the company tell me their field supervisor is still
> smarting from the corporate VP giving him a public chewing out over
> that one - I suspect the bill would spin my hat...
>
>
>
> denny
>
> --- In ham_amplifiers@...
<mailto:ham_amplifiers%40yahoogroups.com>, "craxd" <craxd1@...> wrote:
>>
>> A 3 phase service is mighty fine to have if one can afford to
have it
>> put in. I've not checked on the price in a while, but back in
1985, a
>> 200 amp 220 volt service ran around $2000 from the power company for
>> the transformers, and the service entrance, meter base, etc was
>> extra.
>> I was having one put in at my machine shop building I had at the
>> time.
>> I wish I had the health back to do all that again. At the time I had
>> an electric shop running, and a machine and assembly shop a
couple of
>> miles up the road. I used to design and build custom fab machinery
>> for
>> the railroads. Sure is a good business to be in. Anyhow, 3 phase can
>> sure make life a lot easier if you plan on running reverseable
>> motors,
>> and anything else that needs some umph behind it. One could do it
>> with
>> a pony motor, but I'm not sure how good that would work.
>>
>> Back in the old days, and some do this now, is run a generator
>> (really
>> an alternator without the rectifier stack) in a mobile supplying
LV 3
>> phase to run a HV transformer. That get's you out of running an
>> inverter. A certain company down in Memphis, Tn used to supply a
>> mobile kW (1800 PEP out) with the generator that way. I here about a
>> guy in Florida building these today, and was buying the transformers
>> from Galaxy Transformer. I recon he's built a few with tubes with
>> handles. Of course you need enough engine to run it too.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>> --- In ham_amplifiers@...
<mailto:ham_amplifiers%40yahoogroups.com>, "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> To achieve 1,5% ripple from a 6-pulse power supply of 5KV at 3A you
>> will
>>> need a capacitor of 0,32F.
>>> Without any cap ripple will be 4%.
>>> You will not here any hum from a transmitter without capacitor in
>> the
>>> 6-pulse capacitor when using sideband transmissions.
>>> From a carrier you here little hum on zerobeat.
>>>
>>> The formula to find C for the 3-phase bridge circuit is the same as
>> for any
>>> other circuit, just calculate C from XC by using 300Hz in the
>> formula.
>>> How the transformer is connected does not matter, usually the
>> primary will
>>> be delta for best efficiency and the secondary will be star
>> connected.
>>> You will have 2 diodes per leg. The voltage across one winding is
>> dc/sqrt6.
>>>
>>> I my 7KV 4A CCS P/S I use UGE1112AY4 diodes by IXCYS, 3 per leg,
>> just scewed
>>> one into the next.
>>>
>>> <>
>>>
>>> The transformer secondary is 5KV +/-5%, +/-10% phase to phase, or
>> 2887V
>>> across one winding.
>>> I use 2F 10KV for smoothing and a crowbar overload circuit
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: ham_amplifiers@...
<mailto:ham_amplifiers%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
>> ham_amplifiers@...
<mailto:ham_amplifiers%40yahoogroups.com>]
>>> On Behalf Of pentalab
>>>
>>>> Then, if we talk 3-phase supply and 6-puls rectifying,
>>>> lets say around 5 kV DC potential, how much glitch C
>>>> is needed to achieve 1.5 percent ripple?
>>>
>>> ### Dunno. You would only have 5% ripple with NO cap.... and
>>> with a resonant choke set up.....you probably wouldn't need any
>>> C at all ! [3 phase]
>>>
>>> ### IF no resonant choke setup... and just a straight C input
>>> filter.... I'm guessing around 5-16 uf would be plenty. It
>>> would also highly depend on the load.
>>>
>>> ### I haven't found any formulae for a C input filter HV
>>> supply........ with 3 phase. I don't have access to 3 phase....
>>> so never pursued it. It would be the ultimate setup. IF you
>>> find anything... let me know... as I'm most interested. Somebody
>>> is going to ask me to engineer one for em... so I had better
>>> research it.
>>>
>>> ### I did see some info on C input 3 phase HV supplies some
>>> where.... it's in Orr's older books.... but not alot of info.
>>> Seems to me he had the 3 x primary's connected in a "Delta".....
>>> and the 3 x secondary's tied in a.. "star". The rectifier set
>>> up... if I remember, sorta looked like just 2 x diodes per sec
>>> winding... one flipped around If I remember. The RMS voltage
>>> per sec winding vs no load HVDC output is what threw me.
>>> With say a 1 kv sec.... I'm positive... the OCV hv wasn't 1414
>>> Vdc. [I may well be wrong with this.. just going by memory]
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@... <mailto:r%40somis.org>, , rlm@...
<mailto:rlm%40somis.org>, www.somis.org

I was having problems with my ISP, it seems it implemented a very agressive SPAM filter, so I was not receiving all posts since three weeks ago or so.

Best regards
Guillermo - LU8EYW.

Rich,

I forget what they call that now, but they sure are! There's a minimum
you pay whether you use it or not.

Best,

Will

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

Sometimes, a 3-0 service has a monthly minimum charge that will blow

the hat clean off of one's head.

On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:26 AM, ad4hk2004 wrote:

Being that my Bridgeport mill is 1.5 HP, I use a rotary convertor

to

change the 220X1 to 220X3... Not perfect but it works...
I did consider asking Consumers Power Co. to give me a price for 3
phase to the shop... But getting underground power to my house
required my atty petitioning the court for a 'show cause' order -
insiders at the company tell me their field supervisor is still
smarting from the corporate VP giving him a public chewing out

over

that one - I suspect the bill would spin my hat...



denny

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "craxd" <craxd1@> wrote:

A 3 phase service is mighty fine to have if one can afford to

have it

put in. I've not checked on the price in a while, but back in

1985, a

200 amp 220 volt service ran around $2000 from the power company

for

the transformers, and the service entrance, meter base, etc was
extra.
I was having one put in at my machine shop building I had at the
time.
I wish I had the health back to do all that again. At the time I

had

an electric shop running, and a machine and assembly shop a

couple of

miles up the road. I used to design and build custom fab

machinery

for
the railroads. Sure is a good business to be in. Anyhow, 3 phase

can

sure make life a lot easier if you plan on running reverseable
motors,
and anything else that needs some umph behind it. One could do it

with
a pony motor, but I'm not sure how good that would work.

Back in the old days, and some do this now, is run a generator
(really
an alternator without the rectifier stack) in a mobile supplying

LV 3

phase to run a HV transformer. That get's you out of running an
inverter. A certain company down in Memphis, Tn used to supply a
mobile kW (1800 PEP out) with the generator that way. I here

about a

guy in Florida building these today, and was buying the

transformers

from Galaxy Transformer. I recon he's built a few with tubes with
handles. Of course you need enough engine to run it too.

Best,

Will


--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@>
wrote:

To achieve 1,5% ripple from a 6-pulse power supply of 5KV at 3A

you

will

need a capacitor of 0,32???F.
Without any cap ripple will be 4%.
You will not here any hum from a transmitter without capacitor

in

the

6-pulse capacitor when using sideband transmissions.
From a carrier you here little hum on zerobeat.

The formula to find C for the 3-phase bridge circuit is the same

as

for any

other circuit, just calculate C from XC by using 300Hz in the

formula.

How the transformer is connected does not matter, usually the

primary will

be delta for best efficiency and the secondary will be star

connected.

You will have 2 diodes per leg. The voltage across one winding

is

dc/sqrt6.

I my 7KV 4A CCS P/S I use UGE1112AY4 diodes by IXCYS, 3 per leg,

just scewed

one into the next.



The transformer secondary is 5KV +/-5%, +/-10% phase to phase,

or

2887V

across one winding.
I use 2???F 10KV for smoothing and a crowbar overload circuit
with it.

73
Peter


________________________________

From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:

ham_amplifiers@...]

On Behalf Of pentalab

Then, if we talk 3-phase supply and 6-puls rectifying,
lets say around 5 kV DC potential, how much glitch C
is needed to achieve 1.5 percent ripple?

### Dunno. You would only have 5% ripple with NO cap.... and
with a resonant choke set up.....you probably wouldn't need any
C at all ! [3 phase]

### IF no resonant choke setup... and just a straight C input
filter.... I'm guessing around 5-16 uf would be plenty. It
would also highly depend on the load.

### I haven't found any formulae for a C input filter HV
supply........ with 3 phase. I don't have access to 3 phase....
so never pursued it. It would be the ultimate setup. IF you
find anything... let me know... as I'm most interested. Somebody
is going to ask me to engineer one for em... so I had better
research it.

### I did see some info on C input 3 phase HV supplies some
where.... it's in Orr's older books.... but not alot of info.
Seems to me he had the 3 x primary's connected in a "Delta".....
and the 3 x secondary's tied in a.. "star". The rectifier set
up... if I remember, sorta looked like just 2 x diodes per sec
winding... one flipped around If I remember. The RMS voltage
per sec winding vs no load HVDC output is what threw me.
With say a 1 kv sec.... I'm positive... the OCV hv wasn't 1414
Vdc. [I may well be wrong with this.. just going by memory]

Yahoo! Groups Links

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

Denny,

A rotary converter (pony motor) is the only way to do it correctly. A
static converter is simply a started capacitor bank to get the motor
up to speed then it drops out letting the motor run on just two of its
three coils. You loose 1/3 of your HP over it too. With a rotary
converter, you have all three coils running and all the HP rating.

When you put a 3 phase service in, the $2 grand was for the
transformers (45-50 kVA) and the incoming lines. One has to buy the
service entrance (conduit and pecker head), the wire, the meter base,
the conduit into the building, wire for it, ground, and the breaker or
fuse box. Then run wire to that. It can cost a good bit more.

Best,

Will

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "ad4hk2004" <ad4hk2004@...>
wrote:

Being that my Bridgeport mill is 1.5 HP, I use a rotary convertor to
change the 220X1 to 220X3... Not perfect but it works...
I did consider asking Consumers Power Co. to give me a price for 3
phase to the shop... But getting underground power to my house
required my atty petitioning the court for a 'show cause' order -
insiders at the company tell me their field supervisor is still
smarting from the corporate VP giving him a public chewing out over
that one - I suspect the bill would spin my hat...



denny

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "craxd" <craxd1@> wrote:

A 3 phase service is mighty fine to have if one can afford to have

it

put in. I've not checked on the price in a while, but back in

1985, a

200 amp 220 volt service ran around $2000 from the power company

for

the transformers, and the service entrance, meter base, etc was

extra.

I was having one put in at my machine shop building I had at the

time.

I wish I had the health back to do all that again. At the time I

had

an electric shop running, and a machine and assembly shop a couple

of

miles up the road. I used to design and build custom fab machinery

for

the railroads. Sure is a good business to be in. Anyhow, 3 phase

can

sure make life a lot easier if you plan on running reverseable

motors,

and anything else that needs some umph behind it. One could do it

with

a pony motor, but I'm not sure how good that would work.

Back in the old days, and some do this now, is run a generator

(really

an alternator without the rectifier stack) in a mobile supplying

LV 3

phase to run a HV transformer. That get's you out of running an
inverter. A certain company down in Memphis, Tn used to supply a
mobile kW (1800 PEP out) with the generator that way. I here about

a

guy in Florida building these today, and was buying the

transformers

from Galaxy Transformer. I recon he's built a few with tubes with
handles. Of course you need enough engine to run it too.

Best,

Will


--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@>
wrote:

To achieve 1,5% ripple from a 6-pulse power supply of 5KV at 3A

you

will

need a capacitor of 0,32???F.
Without any cap ripple will be 4%.
You will not here any hum from a transmitter without capacitor

in

the

6-pulse capacitor when using sideband transmissions.
From a carrier you here little hum on zerobeat.

The formula to find C for the 3-phase bridge circuit is the same

as

for any

other circuit, just calculate C from XC by using 300Hz in the

formula.

How the transformer is connected does not matter, usually the

primary will

be delta for best efficiency and the secondary will be star

connected.

You will have 2 diodes per leg. The voltage across one winding

is

dc/sqrt6.

I my 7KV 4A CCS P/S I use UGE1112AY4 diodes by IXCYS, 3 per leg,

just scewed

one into the next.



The transformer secondary is 5KV +/-5%, +/-10% phase to phase,

or

2887V

across one winding.
I use 2???F 10KV for smoothing and a crowbar overload circuit

with it.

73
Peter


________________________________

From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:

ham_amplifiers@...]

On Behalf Of pentalab

Then, if we talk 3-phase supply and 6-puls rectifying,
lets say around 5 kV DC potential, how much glitch C
is needed to achieve 1.5 percent ripple?

### Dunno. You would only have 5% ripple with NO cap.... and
with a resonant choke set up.....you probably wouldn't need any
C at all ! [3 phase]

### IF no resonant choke setup... and just a straight C input
filter.... I'm guessing around 5-16 uf would be plenty. It
would also highly depend on the load.

### I haven't found any formulae for a C input filter HV
supply........ with 3 phase. I don't have access to 3 phase....
so never pursued it. It would be the ultimate setup. IF you
find anything... let me know... as I'm most interested. Somebody
is going to ask me to engineer one for em... so I had better
research it.

### I did see some info on C input 3 phase HV supplies some
where.... it's in Orr's older books.... but not alot of info.
Seems to me he had the 3 x primary's connected in a "Delta".....
and the 3 x secondary's tied in a.. "star". The rectifier set
up... if I remember, sorta looked like just 2 x diodes per sec
winding... one flipped around If I remember. The RMS voltage
per sec winding vs no load HVDC output is what threw me.
With say a 1 kv sec.... I'm positive... the OCV hv wasn't 1414
Vdc. [I may well be wrong with this.. just going by memory]

See Below,

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Oct 4, 2006, at 3:30 AM, craxd wrote:

Mike,

The kicker is, this un-named moderator said "You have been given a
wide degree of latitude - wider than many others". For what,

offering

technical advice to any who asked for it? They also said "You hang

out

here without any amateur call and no professional credentials

other

than as an admitted former designer and builder of amplifiers for

CB

service". Yup, I sure did build um, and did learn a heck of a lot
while doing it. What is his credentials,

He is one of our "recognized amplifier experts".
- Tom Rauch, W8JI, Nov. 1994 *QST* magazine

I've not had the chance to read that one. What was it about?

call, or name for that
matter? If you remember, Tom asked me what my credentials was, and
where I went to school too. Don't it sound fishy that he would ask

the

same right after?

And he has not yet taken a class in alternating-current circuit
analysis.

Then went on to say, "It is no appropriate for you
to get your back up when you are asked for credentials after
questioning not one but several of the academic standards of tube
design and operation". What academic standard did I ever question?

You questioned Tom's spin on it.

I
quoted authors like Terman. The only one I ever questioned was

Tom,

and showed what he was saying was pure hogwash by quoting

published

authors!

That's his modus operandi.

Then he has the balls to say, "If you are going to question
those academic works,

Translation: Tom's cockamamie spin on it.

you need to be willing disclose your credentials
(if your PhD in Physics or Electrical Engineering?), allow them to

be

examined and provide a list of your peer (academically) reviewed
research work (CV) in the field for examination.".

Sounds like a Smoke screen to me.

I felt the same way!

One doesn't need a
PhD, a Ms, or Bs if they have a knowledge of the theory. Does this
mean that to be an amateur operator, one needs to have these

degrees?

I actually have a degree through Ky. State Vo-Tech, but wasn't

going

to tell him this. Nor, do you have to publish any papers to be
correct. Matter of fact, they've been several PhD's proven dead

wrong!

Then, he goes on to say things about Rich that was to me plain

liable

and slanderous (I'll bet they would be in court),

Try asking W8JI if he ever paid Lon Cottingham, K5JV, the $600 for
the Signal-One parts Lon sold him?

and I won't show
them here.

Please do so.

Since you okay it : )

Quote;

"The thing that gets Rich Measures in trouble is that his
writings HAVE been peer reviewed and been denounced as snake
oil by academics, responsible engineers from every major tube
builder, RF design engineers from many companies ranging from
amateur manufacturers to MRI/ISM amplifier builders and
several major broadcast transmitter manufacturers. Measures'
material has all the earmarks of a "good con" ... just enough
truth to give it a patina of believability to the untrained
and impressionable".

This all over Tom trying to argue that a control grid could
become positive.

It can and definitely does so in a grounded-grid amplifier during
most of the negative half of the driving cycle.

No, If you remember, I did say that that was the only case.
What he was getting at was it could become positive with the
grid disconnected from ground, and if I remember, there was
another way which we both collared him on.

It may be less negative than the cathode, or one
might say it's more positive than the cathode, but it sure can't

be

positive with respect to ground or 0 Vdc!

Ground Is Not the reference point for grid potential, it's the
cathode. Example: If the cathode is neg. 1500v (to ground) and the
grid is neg. 1490v (to ground), the grid potential is positive 10v.

Correct, I'm not saying that and agree, but it is all still
negative with respect to chassis ground or the 0 Vdc point.
It could never be positive in respect to it, especially if
it's tied directlly to it. Remember him saying a grid could
become positive when being bombarded by electrons, especially
if it were disconnected from ground? That was when we were
discussing grid fusing. I think the moderator figured by me
saying Terman meant less negative was me questioning peer
reviewed authors. Though, I quoted Termans exact words saying
"less negative". The thing is, that is what I quoted from the
handbook I have. What Tom quoted wasn't from that handook I
have found, as there was only one edition of it, I looked. It
was from a similar book that Terman wrote which had three
editions with a similar name. I figure now Terman worded it a
little different so as not to come under the same trouble as me
describing it. I still see it as less negative than the cathode
which in reality it is (compared to ground), but by it being
this way, it creates a positive or more positive potential.
Tom though, said the grid could be positive un-connected from
ground, and if I recall, another way besides being driven that
way.

I bet I had 30 e-mails come
back to catch Tom saying this. He would argue until his last

breath it

was positive. All because of something he read, and because he

doesn't

understand theory enough to know better.

Rauch is right on this one, Wil. However, he is not always right.
His Achilles' Heel is that he sees himself as a RF infallible
"expert". Thus, he is the last person you would want for the job of

See above

censor in a discussion about RF Tx amplifiers.

Editorial -- The only kind of discussion that works well is the wide

open kind, where there is no censor-librorum/moderator/

administrator.


It's the only way to get at the root of a matter and find the truth.

What put the icing on the cake for me was when Tom commented on a

post

I made about determining the rms current a transformer needs to

supply

to a FWB cap input supply. Tom replied I was wrong, and that it

was

garbage (No wonder why some Ameritrons are poorly designed). When

I

sent back a reply, with a link to Hammond Transformer website with

the

same formula, the un-named modeartor wouldn't post it (censored

it).

In other words, he was hanging me out to dry to look like a fool

over

not letting Tom be wrong.

That's why Richard George reasoned that Tom was most likely the
unidentified Administrator/censor.

I reasoned the same myself, but still can't prove it. Someone
claimed they knew it wasn't Tom, but I'd like to see proof. If
one is ashamed to, or to scared to show who they are, they don't
need to be a moderator.

Well, that was it, I started by-passing him
with direct e-mails to the members that I had in my address book.

The

rest was, well history. ; )

With Tom, The cardinal sin is neutralizing his control over others.

He sure has his control in this moderator. A lap dog, he for
sure does act.

end

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org

Best,

Will

Sometimes, a 3-0 service has a monthly minimum charge that will blow
the hat clean off of one's head.

On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:26 AM, ad4hk2004 wrote:

Being that my Bridgeport mill is 1.5 HP, I use a rotary convertor to
change the 220X1 to 220X3... Not perfect but it works...
I did consider asking Consumers Power Co. to give me a price for 3
phase to the shop... But getting underground power to my house
required my atty petitioning the court for a 'show cause' order -
insiders at the company tell me their field supervisor is still
smarting from the corporate VP giving him a public chewing out over
that one - I suspect the bill would spin my hat...



denny

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "craxd" <craxd1@...> wrote:

A 3 phase service is mighty fine to have if one can afford to have it
put in. I've not checked on the price in a while, but back in 1985, a
200 amp 220 volt service ran around $2000 from the power company for
the transformers, and the service entrance, meter base, etc was
extra.
I was having one put in at my machine shop building I had at the
time.
I wish I had the health back to do all that again. At the time I had
an electric shop running, and a machine and assembly shop a couple of
miles up the road. I used to design and build custom fab machinery
for
the railroads. Sure is a good business to be in. Anyhow, 3 phase can
sure make life a lot easier if you plan on running reverseable motors,
and anything else that needs some umph behind it. One could do it
with
a pony motor, but I'm not sure how good that would work.

Back in the old days, and some do this now, is run a generator
(really
an alternator without the rectifier stack) in a mobile supplying LV 3
phase to run a HV transformer. That get's you out of running an
inverter. A certain company down in Memphis, Tn used to supply a
mobile kW (1800 PEP out) with the generator that way. I here about a
guy in Florida building these today, and was buying the transformers
from Galaxy Transformer. I recon he's built a few with tubes with
handles. Of course you need enough engine to run it too.

Best,

Will


--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@>
wrote:

To achieve 1,5% ripple from a 6-pulse power supply of 5KV at 3A you

will

need a capacitor of 0,32???F.
Without any cap ripple will be 4%.
You will not here any hum from a transmitter without capacitor in

the

6-pulse capacitor when using sideband transmissions.
From a carrier you here little hum on zerobeat.

The formula to find C for the 3-phase bridge circuit is the same as

for any

other circuit, just calculate C from XC by using 300Hz in the

formula.

How the transformer is connected does not matter, usually the

primary will

be delta for best efficiency and the secondary will be star

connected.

You will have 2 diodes per leg. The voltage across one winding is

dc/sqrt6.

I my 7KV 4A CCS P/S I use UGE1112AY4 diodes by IXCYS, 3 per leg,

just scewed

one into the next.



The transformer secondary is 5KV +/-5%, +/-10% phase to phase, or

2887V

across one winding.
I use 2???F 10KV for smoothing and a crowbar overload circuit
with it.

73
Peter


________________________________

From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:

ham_amplifiers@...]

On Behalf Of pentalab

Then, if we talk 3-phase supply and 6-puls rectifying,
lets say around 5 kV DC potential, how much glitch C
is needed to achieve 1.5 percent ripple?

### Dunno. You would only have 5% ripple with NO cap.... and
with a resonant choke set up.....you probably wouldn't need any
C at all ! [3 phase]

### IF no resonant choke setup... and just a straight C input
filter.... I'm guessing around 5-16 uf would be plenty. It
would also highly depend on the load.

### I haven't found any formulae for a C input filter HV
supply........ with 3 phase. I don't have access to 3 phase....
so never pursued it. It would be the ultimate setup. IF you
find anything... let me know... as I'm most interested. Somebody
is going to ask me to engineer one for em... so I had better
research it.

### I did see some info on C input 3 phase HV supplies some
where.... it's in Orr's older books.... but not alot of info.
Seems to me he had the 3 x primary's connected in a "Delta".....
and the 3 x secondary's tied in a.. "star". The rectifier set
up... if I remember, sorta looked like just 2 x diodes per sec
winding... one flipped around If I remember. The RMS voltage
per sec winding vs no load HVDC output is what threw me.
With say a 1 kv sec.... I'm positive... the OCV hv wasn't 1414
Vdc. [I may well be wrong with this.. just going by memory]

Yahoo! Groups Links

R L Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., , rlm@..., www.somis.org