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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
<Carl Dec 28 6:47 AM <Teflon UHF connectors and fresh RG-213 to about 5 KV or so; they are used? <commercially in non RF apps to at least 10 KV that Ive seen over several? <decades. ##? Back in the 70's, I knew of one fellow who used? SO-239 / PL-259? to handle 3-4 kv. That would freak me right out... unless it was well labelled, and painted bright red.? ?I still wouldn't trust teflon uhf connectors. Not much to arc up that gap where the pair of teflon surfaces are mashed together.? ?9 kv could easily arc across a 1/4" air gap..so? you are really? relying on the mating teflon surfaces being mashed tight.? ##? somebody on the amp reflector years ago said they used? up to 50 kv? on plane jane? 213-U..with? correct HV connectors.? That was in a lab environment.? ##? It would be interesting to now what? 213 -U? will? actually hi pot test to.....assuming the braid was peeled back a good? 3+ inches.? ?Plane? 58-U? will easily hi pot test to? 30 kv... so the? 50 kv? for? 213-U may well be correct.? Jim? ?VE7RF |
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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
Teflon UHF connectors and fresh RG-213 to about 5 KV or so; they are used commercially in non RF apps to at least 10 KV that Ive seen over several decades.
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----- Original Message -----
From: jim.thom@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers@... Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv ! <Carl Dec 20 3:49 PM < I stopped using those 30-40 years ago even at 2500V < Carl ## OK, I'll bite. What do you use for hv connectors ??? ## On a similar note, buddy with the hipotronics hi pot tester sez the internal HV wire leads inside the unit use plane jane RG-58..to get to the internal panel positive and negative connectors they use. The unit is adjustable from 0-15 kv on lower scale....and 0-30 kv on high scale. At 30 kv... there is zero leakage, none, zero ua. RG-400, with it's teflon, should be even better than 58-U. Heck, even 213-U should be ok..as long as it's marked every few inches with red tape etc. I have 200' of new 393..so can spare a few feet of it for this latest project..which is a potential bomb as is..with 800uf filter cap and 7700 vdc. Jim VE7RF --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. |
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Re: Solder Suckers
Nah but it's rumoured that it'll pull a baseball through a garden hose.
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Alek. VK6APK On 22/12/2018 10:27 PM, donroden@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
Can it suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch, or suck-start a Harley ? --
From sunny Binningup Family Businesses: SP Electrical. www.spelectrical.net.au The Velvet Fox. Smart Design Electrical. Perth Interiors. |
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Re: Solder Suckers
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýOr suck-start a B-52? ? Mod-U-Lator, Mike(y)/W3SLK ? ? ? From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:36 AM To: ham_amplifiers@... Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Solder Suckers ? ? How about "Can it suck a golf ball through a garden hose?" Edmund Watts ? -----Original Message----- ? Can it suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch, or suck-start a Harley ? |
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Re: Solder Suckers
How about "Can it suck a golf ball through a garden hose?"
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Edmund Watts
ed_watts@... -----Original Message----- From: donroden@... [ham_amplifiers] To: Lee Bahr w5drc@... [ham_amplifiers] Sent: Sat, Dec 22, 2018 6:28 am Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Solder Suckers
?
Can it suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch, or suck-start a Harley ?
Don W4DNR Quoting "Lee Bahr w5drc@... [ham_amplifiers]" <ham_amplifiers@...>: > Been thinking of marketing a new line of terrific solder suckers. > Thinking of calling them the Stormy Williams model. > Any comments or suggestions? > Lee, w0vt |
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Re: Solder Suckers
Can it suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch, or suck-start a Harley ?
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Don W4DNR Quoting "Lee Bahr w5drc@... [ham_amplifiers]" <ham_amplifiers@...>: Been thinking of marketing a new line of terrific solder suckers. |
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Re: Solder Suckers
I have both, and an iron with an integrated iron and sucker. That works the best. But it's no Pace rework station... From: "'Roger (K8RI)' k8ri@... [ham_amplifiers]" To: ham_amplifiers@... Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 2:01 AM Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Solder Suckers There are a number of "Solder Suckers" already on the market, from a rosin impregnated copper braid to a spring loaded mechanical "sucker" 73,? Roger (K8RI) On 12/22/2018 12:34 AM, Lee Bahr w5drc@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote: > > Been thinking of marketing a new line of terrific solder suckers. > Thinking of calling them the Stormy Williams model. > Any comments or suggestions? > Lee, w0vt > > -- Roger (K8RI) ------------------------------------ Posted by: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri@...> ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: ? ? <*> Your email settings: ? ? Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: ? ? ? ? (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: ? ? ham_amplifiers-digest@... ? ? ham_amplifiers-fullfeatured@... <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ? ? ham_amplifiers-unsubscribe@... <*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to: ? ? |
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Re: Solder Suckers
There are a number of "Solder Suckers" already on the market, from a rosin impregnated copper braid to a spring loaded mechanical "sucker"
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73,? Roger (K8RI) On 12/22/2018 12:34 AM, Lee Bahr w5drc@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
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Roger (K8RI) |
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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI am ashamed to say, I have bitten a couple times by the high voltage in an amp.? Both were from stupidity, but¡one with an explanation! ? Years ago, I built a Heathkit SB220.? Did a super, factory like job (I can solder with the best if ¡®em [Well..used to be able¡palsy now¡.? L] Anywho.? When I fire it up, it didn¡¯t.? WTH!? (Use whatever letter you wish!)? Started by discharging the cap bank, a good deep discharge¡ Then started to probe for voltage loss.? Next thing I remember, I was in the hall, on the floor¡.and I *³ó²¹»å²Ô¡¯³Ù* opened the door.? My right arm was numb and I had a big black spot in my vision. ? Wife came running wanting to know, you guessed it¡¡±WHAT HAPPENED??!!¡±? Not, ¡°Are you ok?¡±? (Remember, I said I was on the floor!}? Women.? SHEESH! ? Long story short, I had made an assumption the cap bank was discharged.? NOT!? For some reason, I had not connected the 2 banks into the amplifier circuit, only 1 bank was connected, but both banks charged.? OOPS!? Luckily (for me) the amp was disconnected from power. ? The 2nd time, well¡.pure and simple stupidity.? A Henry 2KD Classic with a Euro transformer.? Someone had really screwed up the 120/240 wiring and I was trying to finger out which non-colored wire was which.? (Reason I was given the amp, didn¡¯t work.)? Power was on, left hand in my belt, no metal grounds anywhere¡ ? µþ³Ü³Ù¡ ? A VOM with little tiny probes, only 1 inch long with little plastic, nothing handles.? While in a very tight space, my knuckle on my right hand touched a 600 volt line.? HOLY CRAP. Mother of God! J. H. Kerist!? ? Pretty good (sic) burn up my knuckle into the palm of my hand.? Hurt like hell, stunk like a sewer plant, and tears were pouring from my eyes.? This time, the wife did ask me if I was all right.? I think I snapped at her, something like, ¡°Does this look like I am all right?!¡±? She said, ¡°Come dear, let¡¯s get this under some cold water¡±.? (I followed meekly.)? (BTW, my wife of 48 years is a doctor, she know things <> ) ? ? Yes, I am absolutely sure, the ¡®1 hand behind the back¡¯, saved my bacon the 2nd time.? 1st time, no¡? I also now have some nice, top dollar, extra-long, insulated probes for my VOM. ? Oh, the amp works great, with the original tubes still in it, (How old they were I have no idea, amp had the Euro transformer installed in 1989 by Henry¡ªI have the receipt from the repair/modification.? It tunes up to about 1600 watts out.? Never did put new tubes in.? I did try the old tubes in an L-4B and tuned up to 900 watts out, so the humongous high voltage fo the Euro transformer, gave a pretty good boost!? The Henry sits under my radio table, to use in case of an emergency, ie: ?My L7 not working. ? There is my tale of woe (stupidity times 2!) ? {{Did I mention I **hate** high voltage?}} ? Joe ¨C W7RKN ? ? ? From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] ? One of the *worst* reactions from the old hens here was when I said to always keep one hand in your pocket when dealing with HV.... Which was immediately followed by people that had real-world experience almost being turned into toast by not following that basic rule... |
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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýBest wishes to Shane & his family for a speedy recovery. One of the *worst* reactions from the old hens here was when I
said to always keep one hand in your pocket when dealing with
HV.... Which was immediately followed by people that had real-world experience almost being turned into toast by not following that basic rule... FFS, I've got nothing to prove here, not *here* amogst y'all...
although nobody from the hereafter that had a hand on the chassis
when he croaked has checked in to this *(unmoderated) list, and,
presumably, if AG6K was in Hell, he'd have QRMd it by now. Jim... having overthunk the choke thing... methinks that "if" you had 2H in the B+ AND 2H in the B-, THEN the back EMF would equalize.... and, and, well, Hell, what's the point of that? Where ya gonna put the scope leads, the meters... meh... it'd be easier to design a new class of (vacuum-tube) devices to clamp the V... Canadiodes... eh?
73 Randy
On 12/21/2018 8:23 PM,
jim.thom@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
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Re: New PSUD-3 now in the works !
? Several emails between me and? Duncan Munro..who is also a ham.? ?All these anomalies are being fixed as we speak.? ?Also, if u do something stupid, like use less than the min inductance for a choke, on a choke input filter, it will let u know asap.
I also asked him to include more stuff, like? express? ripple in db down, which is what's used in the commercial world, which makes more sense? vs? ripple %.? ?Also what? might be included is 3 phase? setups, with 3 x common rectifier configs . Filter ringing will also be addressed.? ? We also need a better stepped load feature, that? depicts a dynamic load better.? ?There is a bunch of more stuff? being looked at.? Stay tuned.? new version will be called? PSUD-3.? But it won't be ready for a while, with all these extra features and other fixes being in the mix.? ?He also has? LTspice, which does depict stuff a bit more accurately..and does stuff like factoring in diode C etc.? ?New version will also include resonating a choke..+ stuff like? RC snubbers across a choke and xfmr sec, etc.? Hams won't use most of this stuff, but the DIY tube audio guys sure do.? ?As is, PSUD is the only thing I have found that will depict rms current into a filter cap...which is? typ? 2.5? X? max plate current.? ? Most of these rinky dink modern day 200 /330 uf caps are only rated for 1.5 to 1.75A? ripple current as is.? ?Which is barely up to the task? for? tube that sucks? 800ma.? ? ? ? ? Jim? VE7RF? |
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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
<Carl Dec 20 3:49 PM < I stopped using those 30-40 years ago even at 2500V < Carl ## OK, I'll? bite.? ?What do you use for hv connectors ???? ##? On a similar note,? buddy with the hipotronics hi pot tester? sez the internal? HV wire? leads? inside the unit? use plane jane? RG-58..to get to the internal panel? positive and negative connectors they use. The unit is? adjustable from 0-15 kv on lower scale....and? 0-30 kv on high scale.? ?At 30 kv... there is zero leakage, none,? zero ua.? ? ?RG-400, with it's? teflon,? ?should be even better than? 58-U.? Heck, even? 213-U should be ok..as long as it's marked every few inches? with red tape? etc.? I have? 200'? of new? 393..so can spare a few feet of it for this latest project..which is a potential? bomb as is..with 800uf? filter cap and? 7700 vdc.? Jim? ?VE7RF? |
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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
I stopped using those 30-40 years ago even at 2500V
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Carl ----- Original Message -----
From: jim.thom@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers@... Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 10:21 PM Subject: [ham_amplifiers] 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv ! I heard through the grape vine that toll free / aka Shane, / KD6VXI, just about blew his finger off, on a Millen HV connector, with 6 kv on it. Don't ever get near one of those things, when there is B+ on it. Jim VE7RF --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. |
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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
Solid-core spark plug wire -- Packard 440 or similar -- is the way to go.? It's extremely durable, reasonably flexible, and good to well over 25 kV.? If you're not comfortable with that, you can easily open up some braided ground strap or strip some coax and run the wire through the [grounded] braid.? With that setup, there's no way that your HV is going to reach out and touch someone.? Unless, of course, you do something stupid and/or careless...
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...Some years ago, I was working on a megawatt-class amplifier.? The driver stage required 6 kV at six Amperes, and there was an issue which required me to disconnect the HV from the driver stage.? The 6 kV supply output was through a maroon, screw-on Millen connector, which was 100% reliable at 6 kV.? I dutifully unscrewed and removed the HV lead from the supply and performed the tests.? When I entered the amplifier to reinstall the lead, everything was fine until the lead got close to the output connector.? The "BANG!" in the enclosed space left me momentarily deaf, and the flash left a black spot in my vision for several minutes.
It turned out that the bleeder string(s) on the 6 kV supply had opened up, leaving about 900 Joules (50 microfarads) to find ground in a few milliseconds.? To this day, I'm very glad that it hit the lead and not my hand; and I always, ALWAYS have used caution -- and chicken sticks -- since that event.
By the way, fixing the bleeder problem solved the issue which started the trouble. Edmund Watts
ed_watts@... -----Original Message-----
From: jim.thom@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers Sent: Thu, Dec 20, 2018 5:43 am Subject: RE: [ham_amplifiers] 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
?
Drake uses em on the back of the L4B? RF deck, but the HV lead? coming out of the loom is like the center conductor + poly off of some 8-U coax? and? it's really short...and max of? 2650 on it..on rx.?
I used the damned things on the hb supply, with 6.7 kv, then sold it to the buddy with the YC-156 amp u see on the pix page.? ?He redid them , this time on the side of the cabs,, and mounted to? some? square? HV? micarta...+ nylon screws.?
When I had it, one day the line V went up to? 247 V..and? B+? rose to a hair under? 7 kv.... and it arced from center to? one of the 2 x SS mounting screws !? ? ?Also, when I got my arm? within 1' of the silicone rubber coated belden 10 kv test prod? wire, all the hair on my arm stood on end, which really? freaked me out.?
Most of
these? HV connectors have one issue or another.? ?Even the Alden ones are not perfect, and are easily pulled out, no locking? provision.? ? The better types use a braid over the dielectric, like? 393 /213? etc, and are configured such that the braid /shield? always makes? contact? 1st..... just b4 the center? conductor? connects.?
On this latest? B+? supply I'm building,? I'm hard wiring all the B+? connections, where the 393 cable goes external? from the HV supply, over to the 2nd cab, which contains the C1 -L-C2? filter, then more? 393 over to the 3rd cab, which contains the RF deck.? Then lugs on the center conductor and braid, strain relief? with a plastic clamp? on a 1" diam stand off, then more strain relief where it exits the cab with those rubber? reducing fittings, that cinch down on the? cabl
e.? ?I'm done with hv connectors,? they all have some kind of? drawback, or are bulky.?
On the inside of the cabs, I used plane jane Belden? 10 kv rated? test prod wire,? 18 gauge, with the silicone rubber insulation...super flexible.? ?Good on the inside of a cab,? but I would not use it external, not robust enough, and silicone rubber is too easily pinched, nicked, etc.? You could slice into it, and the cut slit would self heal, and you would? never know there was a cut into it.?
I have? 200' of 393? coax, with its teflon dielectric over the center conductor and also over the silver plated braid.? ?Then ground the braid at each end.? ?Then a? separate 10 / 8 gauge, insulated wire,? with lugs on each end,? bonding the cabs together.? ?I only need a few? feet for the external? HV wiring.?
<
div>On that YC-156? supply, besides a HV meter in both the HV supply, with its 4 x oil caps etc,? I also had a HV meter in 2nd box, with the? 20 x lytics..and a 3rd? HV meter in the RF deck.? ?IF? HV fuse blows open, the HV meter in the RF deck drops to zero, while the other 2 x hv meters? still reads 6.7 kv.... being on the inboard side of the HV fuse.? ?Also wired 2 x? green neons in series, then wired that mess across the last lytic in the series string, at the cold end.? Works good, and you can see the pair of green? neons? ?from? 50'? away.? ?Good visual? attention getting device.? ?Any box that has HV inside, gets a HV meter.?
Another problem with the millens is there is no provision for strain relief.?
Jim? ?VE7RF?
?? ? ? ? ?
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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýYes it is true. I understand he reached around the back of the
amp to deal with some cables and grabbed the B plus line. These
connectors are NOT shielded and neither is the wire.? There is
simply no EXCUSE for this.? TURN THE AMP OFF before working on it
and make sure it has no B plus. I am glad my friend is alive. I
have known him for many years. C On 12/20/2018 9:08 AM, 'Carl'
km1h@... [ham_amplifiers] wrote:
? -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |
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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
Millen rated them to 7 KV
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----- Original Message -----
From: 'Mike Sawyer' w3slk@... [ham_amplifiers] To: ham_amplifiers@... Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:43 AM Subject: RE: [ham_amplifiers] 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv ! Why would he be crazy enough to do that? Didn¡¯t he know they are only rated for 2~2.5KV????? Mod-U-Lator, Mike(y)/W3SLK From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 10:21 PM To: ham_amplifiers@... Subject: [ham_amplifiers] 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv ! I heard through the grape vine that toll free / aka Shane, / KD6VXI, just about blew his finger off, on a Millen HV connector, with 6 kv on it. Don't ever get near one of those things, when there is B+ on it. Jim VE7RF --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. |
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Re: 'Toll free' gets blasted with 6 kv !
Drake uses em on the back of the L4B? RF deck, but the HV lead? coming out of the loom is like the center conductor + poly off of some 8-U coax? and? it's really short...and max of? 2650 on it..on rx.?
I used the damned things on the hb supply, with 6.7 kv, then sold it to the buddy with the YC-156 amp u see on the pix page.? ?He redid them , this time on the side of the cabs,, and mounted to? some? square? HV? micarta...+ nylon screws.? When I had it, one day the line V went up to? 247 V..and? B+? rose to a hair under? 7 kv.... and it arced from center to? one of the 2 x SS mounting screws !? ? ?Also, when I got my arm? within 1' of the silicone rubber coated belden 10 kv test prod? wire, all the hair on my arm stood on end, which really? freaked me out.? Most of these? HV connectors have one issue or another.? ?Even the Alden ones are not perfect, and are easily pulled out, no locking? provision.? ? The better types use a braid over the dielectric, like? 393 /213? etc, and are configured such that the braid /shield? always makes? contact? 1st..... just b4 the center? conductor? connects.? On this latest? B+? supply I'm building,? I'm hard wiring all the B+? connections, where the 393 cable goes external? from the HV supply, over to the 2nd cab, which contains the C1 -L-C2? filter, then more? 393 over to the 3rd cab, which contains the RF deck.? Then lugs on the center conductor and braid, strain relief? with a plastic clamp? on a 1" diam stand off, then more strain relief where it exits the cab with those rubber? reducing fittings, that cinch down on the? cable.? ?I'm done with hv connectors,? they all have some kind of? drawback, or are bulky.? On the inside of the cabs, I used plane jane Belden? 10 kv rated? test prod wire,? 18 gauge, with the silicone rubber insulation...super flexible.? ?Good on the inside of a cab,? but I would not use it external, not robust enough, and silicone rubber is too easily pinched, nicked, etc.? You could slice into it, and the cut slit would self heal, and you would? never know there was a cut into it.? I have? 200' of 393? coax, with its teflon dielectric over the center conductor and also over the silver plated braid.? ?Then ground the braid at each end.? ?Then a? separate 10 / 8 gauge, insulated wire,? with lugs on each end,? bonding the cabs together.? ?I only need a few? feet for the external? HV wiring.? On that YC-156? supply, besides a HV meter in both the HV supply, with its 4 x oil caps etc,? I also had a HV meter in 2nd box, with the? 20 x lytics..and a 3rd? HV meter in the RF deck.? ?IF? HV fuse blows open, the HV meter in the RF deck drops to zero, while the other 2 x hv meters? still reads 6.7 kv.... being on the inboard side of the HV fuse.? ?Also wired 2 x? green neons in series, then wired that mess across the last lytic in the series string, at the cold end.? Works good, and you can see the pair of green? neons? ?from? 50'? away.? ?Good visual? attention getting device.? ?Any box that has HV inside, gets a HV meter.? Another problem with the millens is there is no provision for strain relief.? Jim? ?VE7RF? ?? ? ? ? ? |
Scott, KB3JQQ