Thank you Bob. It mentions that radio having a lot of overshoot.
I concluded the amp was functioning as designed, puts out 455W in CW,
which is close to the rating, and if he sets the ALC min-max properly
I figure it will mitigate those errors in SSB. The design probably intends to
limit buckshot / splatter / IMD so it has those paramaters carefully monitored.
Maybe too carefully.
--
Steve Hearns [ KA2PTE ]
Technotronic Dimensions, VT [USA]
WWW.TECHNOTRONIC-DIMENSIONS.COM
E-Mail: Steve@...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <W4JFABob@...> To: < [email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2024 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] RMItaly BLA600 Steve, Here's some interesting reading on the overshoot issue... ALC Exciter Power Overshoot (w8ji.com) <> Bob W4JFA On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:10?AM Technotronic Dimensions via groups.io <steve@...> wrote: Hi Bob
Could be...I heard the same thing regarding ICOM but was not sure if
its multiple radios or just the 706.
RMItaly says they only recommend using the ALC jack if you are mostly on 1
band
else if you change bands, you have to reset and re-adj.
The owner of this one only works 6M, so I am gonna have him try and hook
up
the
ALC and set it up in the amps ALC on screen menu. Its got a MIN and a MAX
and (2) trimpots near the RCA jack to set MIN/MAX.
The owners manual is sort of vague for the amp but last night on 80M
I could put no more than about 10W peak ssb mod to it, else it would trip
to sdby with errors that usually indicated the RF input was too much.
Other hams call these "CB AMPS", and those usually are designed with maybe
5-12W inputs from AM or SSB so maybe its working as designed.
Hes running it on 110V power, maybe on 220/240 they would allow more
headroom?
--
Steve Hearns [ KA2PTE ]
Technotronic Dimensions, VT [USA]
WWW.TECHNOTRONIC-DIMENSIONS.COM
E-Mail: Steve@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <W4JFABob@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2024 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] RMItaly BLA600
Steve, I have read that the Icom 706 has a very bad amplifier overshoot. I
wonder if that's what caused the owner's problem?
I don't have any experience with a 706 myself, I've only read about it. I
wonder if your 930 does as well?
Just a thought.
Bob W4JFA
On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:25?AM Technotronic Dimensions via groups.io
<steve@...> wrote:
Fixing one of these up, had a blown LDMOS FET now
ok on CW, but SSB trips a lot of error protect faults related to I think
the
peak power during modulation input to the amp.
It claims > 25W is what brings it into protect and my Kenwood 930S
trips it in SSB no matter how low the output is. My KW 850S has better
Carrier and FR out controls, so I can bring it down much lower and it
seems to be ok with that rigg.
This is running on 110V hookup, I get about 450W CW carrier,
and most I can see on the average analog power meter is like 200W
and thats almost full bars on the amps power bar meter on the front
panel, so I am left to believe this is its intended operation without
using ALC?
The owner of the amp uses an ICOM 706MK2 with no ALC on the AMP, but I
believe
it does have an ALC output.
I have never ran an amp with the ALC from the rigg, but its suppose to I
guess
limit the spikes I am seeing which also reduces the buckshot side splatter
from the
inherent IMD they produce?
--
Steve Hearns [ KA2PTE ]
Technotronic Dimensions, VT [USA]
WWW.TECHNOTRONIC-DIMENSIONS.COM <>
E-Mail: Steve@...
|
Steve, Here's some interesting reading?on the overshoot issue...
Bob W4JFA On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:10?AM Technotronic Dimensions via <steve= [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Bob
Could be...I heard the same thing regarding ICOM but was not sure if
its multiple radios or just the 706.
RMItaly says they only recommend using the ALC jack if you are mostly on 1
band
else if you change bands, you have to reset and re-adj.
The owner of this one only works 6M, so I am gonna have him try and hook up
the
ALC and set it up in the amps ALC on screen menu. Its got a MIN and a MAX
and (2) trimpots near the RCA jack to set MIN/MAX.
The owners manual is sort of vague for the amp? but last night on 80M
I could put no more than about 10W peak ssb mod to it, else it would trip
to sdby with errors that usually indicated the RF input was too much.
Other hams call these "CB AMPS", and those usually are designed with maybe
5-12W inputs from AM or SSB so maybe its working as designed.
Hes running it on 110V power, maybe on 220/240 they would allow more
headroom?
--
Steve Hearns [ KA2PTE ]
Technotronic Dimensions, VT [USA]
E-Mail: Steve@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <W4JFABob@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2024 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] RMItaly BLA600
Steve, I have read that the Icom 706 has a very bad amplifier overshoot. I
wonder if that's what caused the owner's problem?
I don't have any experience with a 706 myself, I've only read about it. I
wonder if your 930 does as well?
Just a thought.
Bob W4JFA
On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:25?AM Technotronic Dimensions via
<steve=[email protected]> wrote:
> Fixing one of these up, had a blown LDMOS FET now
> ok on CW, but SSB trips a lot of error protect faults related to I think
> the
> peak power during modulation input to the amp.
>
> It claims > 25W is what brings it into protect and my Kenwood 930S
> trips it in SSB no matter how low the output is. My KW 850S has better
> Carrier and FR out controls, so I can bring it down much lower and it
> seems to be ok with that rigg.
>
> This is running on 110V hookup, I get about 450W CW carrier,
> and most I can see on the average analog power meter is like 200W
> and thats almost full bars on the amps power bar meter on the front
> panel, so I am left to believe this is its intended operation without
> using ALC?
>
> The owner of the amp uses an ICOM 706MK2 with no ALC on the AMP, but I
> believe
> it does have an ALC output.
>
> I have never ran an amp with the ALC from the rigg, but its suppose to I
> guess
> limit the spikes I am seeing which also reduces the buckshot side splatter
> from the
> inherent IMD they produce?
>
> --
> Steve Hearns [ KA2PTE ]
> Technotronic Dimensions, VT [USA]
> <>
> E-Mail: Steve@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Hi Bob
Could be...I heard the same thing regarding ICOM but was not sure if
its multiple radios or just the 706.
RMItaly says they only recommend using the ALC jack if you are mostly on 1 band
else if you change bands, you have to reset and re-adj.
The owner of this one only works 6M, so I am gonna have him try and hook up the
ALC and set it up in the amps ALC on screen menu. Its got a MIN and a MAX
and (2) trimpots near the RCA jack to set MIN/MAX.
The owners manual is sort of vague for the amp but last night on 80M
I could put no more than about 10W peak ssb mod to it, else it would trip
to sdby with errors that usually indicated the RF input was too much.
Other hams call these "CB AMPS", and those usually are designed with maybe
5-12W inputs from AM or SSB so maybe its working as designed.
Hes running it on 110V power, maybe on 220/240 they would allow more headroom?
--
Steve Hearns [ KA2PTE ]
Technotronic Dimensions, VT [USA]
WWW.TECHNOTRONIC-DIMENSIONS.COM
E-Mail: Steve@...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <W4JFABob@...> To: < [email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2024 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] RMItaly BLA600 Steve, I have read that the Icom 706 has a very bad amplifier overshoot. I wonder if that's what caused the owner's problem? I don't have any experience with a 706 myself, I've only read about it. I wonder if your 930 does as well? Just a thought. Bob W4JFA On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:25?AM Technotronic Dimensions via groups.io <steve@...> wrote: Fixing one of these up, had a blown LDMOS FET now
ok on CW, but SSB trips a lot of error protect faults related to I think
the
peak power during modulation input to the amp.
It claims > 25W is what brings it into protect and my Kenwood 930S
trips it in SSB no matter how low the output is. My KW 850S has better
Carrier and FR out controls, so I can bring it down much lower and it
seems to be ok with that rigg.
This is running on 110V hookup, I get about 450W CW carrier,
and most I can see on the average analog power meter is like 200W
and thats almost full bars on the amps power bar meter on the front
panel, so I am left to believe this is its intended operation without
using ALC?
The owner of the amp uses an ICOM 706MK2 with no ALC on the AMP, but I
believe
it does have an ALC output.
I have never ran an amp with the ALC from the rigg, but its suppose to I
guess
limit the spikes I am seeing which also reduces the buckshot side splatter
from the
inherent IMD they produce?
--
Steve Hearns [ KA2PTE ]
Technotronic Dimensions, VT [USA]
WWW.TECHNOTRONIC-DIMENSIONS.COM <>
E-Mail: Steve@...
|
Steve, I have read that the Icom 706 has a very bad amplifier?overshoot. I wonder if that's what caused the owner's problem? I don't have any experience with a 706 myself, I've only read about it. I wonder if your 930 does as well? Just a thought. Bob W4JFA On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:25?AM Technotronic Dimensions via <steve= [email protected]> wrote:
Fixing one of these up, had a blown LDMOS FET now
ok on CW, but SSB trips a lot of error protect faults related to I think the
peak power during modulation input to the amp.
?
It claims > 25W is what brings it into protect and my Kenwood 930S
trips it in SSB no matter how low the output is. My KW 850S has better
Carrier and FR out controls, so I can bring it down much lower and it
seems to be ok with that rigg.
?
This is running on 110V hookup, I get about 450W CW carrier,
and most I can see on the average analog power meter is like 200W
and thats almost full bars on the amps power bar meter on the front?
panel, so I am left to believe this is its intended operation without using ALC?
?
The owner of the amp uses an ICOM 706MK2 with no ALC on the AMP, but I believe
it does have an ALC output.
?
I have never ran an amp with the ALC from the rigg, but its suppose to I guess
limit the spikes I am seeing which also reduces the buckshot side splatter from the
inherent IMD they produce?
?
-- Steve Hearns [ KA2PTE ] Technotronic Dimensions, VT [USA] E-Mail: Steve@...?
?
?
|
Fixing one of these up, had a blown LDMOS FET now
ok on CW, but SSB trips a lot of error protect faults related to I think the
peak power during modulation input to the amp.
?
It claims > 25W is what brings it into protect and my Kenwood 930S
trips it in SSB no matter how low the output is. My KW 850S has better
Carrier and FR out controls, so I can bring it down much lower and it
seems to be ok with that rigg.
?
This is running on 110V hookup, I get about 450W CW carrier,
and most I can see on the average analog power meter is like 200W
and thats almost full bars on the amps power bar meter on the front?
panel, so I am left to believe this is its intended operation without using ALC?
?
The owner of the amp uses an ICOM 706MK2 with no ALC on the AMP, but I believe
it does have an ALC output.
?
I have never ran an amp with the ALC from the rigg, but its suppose to I guess
limit the spikes I am seeing which also reduces the buckshot side splatter from the
inherent IMD they produce?
?
-- Steve Hearns [ KA2PTE ] Technotronic Dimensions, VT [USA] E-Mail: Steve@...?
?
?
|
Re: 3CX1200Z7 maximum safe grid current
I use 300 mA as a max at 4kV B+ in CW. The issue with grid dissipation is that the tube’s input impedance needs to be known and it’s not a trivial value to determine. I trust Ameritron’s notation of 300 mA and simply use that
73,
Kim N5OP
"People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least as long as the music lasts."?-- Paul Hindemith
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 14, 2024, at 5:51?PM, Dave w6de <w6de@...> wrote:
? The amplifiers were sold without tubes because they cost too much and killed amplifier sales.The 3CX1200A7 can also be used in place of a 3CX1200Z7.Look here to see the spec sheet of both tubes: https://www.g8wrb.co.uk/triodes/73,Dave, w6de-----Original Message-----From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John, K9MM via groups.ioSent: 14 August, 2024 21:44To: [email protected]Subject: [ham-amplifiers] 3CX1200Z7 maximum safe grid currentI have an AL-1200 with the 3CX1200Z7. The tube has a grid dissipation rating of 50W, but I've found no spec for maximum grid current. On page5 of the AL-1200 manual it says do not exceed 300ma during normal operation of this amplifier. On page 14 in step 11 of the CW tuning procedure it mentions both 300ma and 250ma. I have been running myAL-1200 at 200ma grid current because I don't want to risk damaging the tube, but I can't get 1500W output on any band at 200ma grid current. I would like to know what is actually the maximum safe grid current for operation of this tube.I noticed the last time Ameritron was advertising the AL-1200, the price was for an amp without the tube. I took this as an indicator that the tube is no longer in production. Is this true? Is anyone re-building the 3CX1200Z7?Thanks!73,John, K9MM
|
Re: 3CX1200Z7 maximum safe grid current
The amplifiers were sold without tubes because they cost too much and killed amplifier sales.
The 3CX1200A7 can also be used in place of a 3CX1200Z7.
Look here to see the spec sheet of both tubes:
73,
Dave, w6de
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of John, K9MM via groups.io Sent: 14 August, 2024 21:44 To: [email protected]Subject: [ham-amplifiers] 3CX1200Z7 maximum safe grid current I have an AL-1200 with the 3CX1200Z7. The tube has a grid dissipation rating of 50W, but I've found no spec for maximum grid current. On page 5 of the AL-1200 manual it says do not exceed 300ma during normal operation of this amplifier. On page 14 in step 11 of the CW tuning procedure it mentions both 300ma and 250ma. I have been running my AL-1200 at 200ma grid current because I don't want to risk damaging the tube, but I can't get 1500W output on any band at 200ma grid current. I would like to know what is actually the maximum safe grid current for operation of this tube. I noticed the last time Ameritron was advertising the AL-1200, the price was for an amp without the tube. I took this as an indicator that the tube is no longer in production. Is this true? Is anyone re-building the 3CX1200Z7? Thanks! 73, John, K9MM
|
3CX1200Z7 maximum safe grid current
I have an AL-1200 with the 3CX1200Z7. The tube has a grid dissipation rating of 50W, but I've found no spec for maximum grid current. On page 5 of the AL-1200 manual it says do not exceed 300ma during normal operation of this amplifier. On page 14 in step 11 of the CW tuning procedure it mentions both 300ma and 250ma. I have been running my AL-1200 at 200ma grid current because I don't want to risk damaging the tube, but I can't get 1500W output on any band at 200ma grid current. I would like to know what is actually the maximum safe grid current for operation of this tube.
I noticed the last time Ameritron was advertising the AL-1200, the price was for an amp without the tube. I took this as an indicator that the tube is no longer in production. Is this true? Is anyone re-building the 3CX1200Z7?
Thanks!
73,
John, K9MM
|
|
|
So far, so good.? What was the price, including the power supply ??
Tom left Ameritron in 2019.? Dunno who actually designed it.?
|
I have only had my 1406 for a month now. It is performing well. Some one told me that they had a 1406 and that it would do 1500 watts easily. I just tried mine for the first time at that power level. I had a 20 minute qso. They told me that my audio sounded find and the amplifier did not kick out at that power level. Apparently Tom made a very good design, ...again. I accidently got it up to 1600 watts and it did not kick out. I will not do that again.?
?
The size of this amplifier with it separate powers supply is huge compared to the other 1500 watt SS amps being sold. I think it is double or triple the size of a Mercury or Acorn SS amp. I did not want to buy either of these other amps because they had computer screens to show the power, VSWR, etc. I did not want something else that could go wrong. The 1406 is just knobs and meters. I prefer that.
?
If someone else here has a 1406, I would love to hear their own comments on its performance for them. My serial number on the 1406 is 00015. :-) Apparently there were few made before they closed.?
|
I too, have had an ongoing issue with the band switch in my FL-2100B. After repeated band switch repairs (replacing contacts you did) I ultimately found my problems were being caused by a keying delay with the buffer relay I was using between the radio and
amp. After the 3rd?failure, I got the O-scope out and measured the keying delay and much to my surprise it was I ended up solving my problems by using a solid-state buffer called a Keyall ().
It has an opto-isolated input and with the pair of MOSFETs can switch positive and negative voltages. There are similar devices that require no assembly on the internet. However, I liked the cost of this device over the other options I was able to find and
I just made my own enclosure. Because I had so many failures, I ran out of donor contacts for the band switch. I elected to step up and purchase the Multi-tech band switch found here:????
|
Jackson Harbor Press presents the Keyall HV, a keying interface for all tube/solid state ham transmitters.
wb9kzy.com
|
|
|
Better Than The Original Yaesu Switch! Switch Specs.
www.ebay.com
|
The switch is slightly larger than the original and it took a little work to get it installed but it wasn't a big deal.?
The one thing I always do when I tune up is to make sure that I drive the amp with a full 100 watts out of the exciter during the tune up procedure. Once all tuned for max output, I advance the loading control clockwise just slightly, to over-couple (un-mesh
the load capacitor) in order to reduce the chance of arc-over. One of the other issues I've seen is where folks think they are going easy on the amp by tuning the amp at reduced drive levels. The problem is that most radios have ALC-overshoot issues which
causes a momentary spike during key up. This spike is really hard on components and can create arcing in the tank circuit. Always a good idea to tune for max power out. If your radio produces significantly more that 100 watts out, then use an attenuator.?
Good luck!
73,
Jim - AA7CL??
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Show quoted text
Thanks everyone for the response.
?
I ended up drilling out the rivets and replacing the fingers with a similar wafer switch with basically identical fingers kindly provided by a local ham, I used small nuts and bolts rather than rivets to secure the replacement fingers.
?
I wonder what causes the band switch damage, I suppose it could be dirty contacts overtime or possibly not enough delay hot switching, or perhaps pushing it too hard / high swr
?
I'm curious about the grey lines on the anode in the pic below, they kind of look like pencil marks.
?
?
?
|
Jordan. I commend you on your repairs.
In my view and experience, 160m in the FL-2100Z was an
afterthought and I have never seen one operate really well in the
VK segment of the band. They are renowned poor performers and it's
why I have always been more happy to live with the 2100B over the
2100Z.?
If your switch repair has been successful, I think you would do
well to leave 160m alone when it comes to using anything more than
a few hundred Watts. Be content with having the other bands
working properly.
As for the marks on the anode. They probably got scratched when
they were in the box with all the other anodes in the tube
factory. I wouldn't think that it is anything to worry about.
Others may have more experience in this area.
73 Alek VK6APK.
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Show quoted text
Thanks everyone for the response.
?
I ended up drilling out the rivets and replacing the fingers
with a similar wafer switch with basically identical fingers
kindly provided by a local ham, I used small nuts and bolts
rather than rivets to secure the replacement fingers.
?
I wonder what causes the band switch damage, I suppose it
could be dirty contacts overtime or possibly not enough delay
hot switching, or perhaps pushing it too hard / high swr
?
I'm curious about the grey lines on the anode in the pic
below, they kind of look like pencil marks.
?
?
?
|
Thanks everyone for the response.
?
I ended up drilling out the rivets and replacing the fingers with a similar wafer switch with basically identical fingers kindly provided by a local ham, I used small nuts and bolts rather than rivets to secure the replacement fingers.
?
I wonder what causes the band switch damage, I suppose it could be dirty contacts overtime or possibly not enough delay hot switching, or perhaps pushing it too hard / high swr
?
I'm curious about the grey lines on the anode in the pic below, they kind of look like pencil marks.
?
?
?
|
Thanks Joe. Price becomes a big issue when you try and get it to
Australia. There are 2100B and TL922 switches on Ebay but none for
the 2100Z.
I have a brand new 2100Z switch? here and I'm in Australia, like
Jordan. I have just emailed him to say that I'll part with it.
Cheers, Alek VK6APK.
On 10/08/2024 12:45 pm, Joe - W7RKN
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It
has been a couple of years since I checked, but, Yaesu had a bunch of band switches
for the 2100 amplifiers..pricey..Then
125 bucks.?
Dunno
if they covered 160 or WARC though.? Have you called them?
?
Joe
– W7RKN
?
From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of vk3acu via groups.io
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Fl-2100Z problems
?
Sir thanks for the reply Alek turns out
it's the band switch.
I'm going to have to rebuild it I can't
find a new one sadly
|
It has been a couple of years since I checked, but, Yaesu had a bunch of band switches for the 2100 amplifiers..pricey..Then 125 bucks.? Dunno if they covered 160 or WARC though.? Have you called them? ? Joe – W7RKN ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of vk3acu via groups.io
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Fl-2100Z problems ? Sir thanks for the reply Alek turns out it's the band switch. I'm going to have to rebuild it I can't find a new one sadly
|
Sir thanks for the reply Alek turns out it's the band switch.
I'm going to have to rebuild it I can't find a new one sadly
?
73
Jordan
|
Yes, it's a possibility that those capacitors are bad but more
likely is that the 80m and/or 160m contacts on the band switch
have been burnt away. It is quite common on the 2100Z.
Shine a light down into the band switch and check every contact
carefully. From memory, it is not easy to pick the burnt contacts
at first glance.
I can add that it is not a fun job to change the switch. I have
done a couple over the years and I'm not keen to do it again.
73 and good luck, Alek VK6APK
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Show quoted text
Hi All, I have picked up Yaesu FL-2100z recently and have
some issues with some bands.
?
It seems to work quite well on 40M and 20M.
?
On 80m However the plate current is too high (in to a dummy
load) and the loading has to be flat out (for 80m). It's making
around 200w on 80m with a .5plate current (CW)
And nothing on 160m
?
Grid
resistors are ok, but the band capacitors look like they might
have got a bit warm darker red in the middle
...
?
Looking at the schematic 80 and 160 switches in extra c...
?
I will have to do further testing but for now Just wanted
thoughts and suggestions. Thanks for reading cheers
|
12 KW CCS ON 160-15M....USING THE 3CX-6000A7..... PART 19
Protection Board Installed And Wired. 3CX6000A7 12KW CCS 160-15 Meter Linear Amplifier
Here the modified protection board is installed, along with the vac relays, cutoff bias resistors etc.
The series bias diodes will be installed next....along with the plate choke etc.
|
FWIW, I usually slide the cabinet back and adjust the coil under load. I test to see if lowest swr and maximum output coincide. ?If not I’ll opt for maximum power.
On Monday, August 5, 2024, 10:13 PM, John Becker via groups.io <johnb3030@...> wrote: I would like to tweak the input tuning on my AL-1200 to see if I can
reduce the VSWR presented to my FTDX101MP.
The AL-1200 manual doesn't say anything about this, and doesn't even
tell which coil is for which band. I emailed Ameritron about this in
2022 and they told me The bottom coil is 160 and the top is 12/10.
I also asked them for the procedure they use to tune the coils during
production, but they wouldn't tell me. I asked if I could slide the top
cover back just far enough to be able to tune the coils with the
amplifier operating, and they said no because of safety concerns. But
the amplifier needs to be turned on or there is no way to actuate the
input relay to get RF drive to the input circuit.
I've been working on tube amps for years and know how to do it safely.
Should i just slide the cover back a little or is there a better way to
do it on this amp? Thanks!
73,
John, K9MM
|
Technotronic Dimensions
Bob