Keyboard Shortcuts
ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
ctrl + shift + f :
Find
ctrl + / :
Quick actions
esc to dismiss
Likes
Search
What is special about the 3066?
|
Not wanting to highjack the "[h390-vm] Support for 3066 Graphic Terminal" thread. What was unique about the 3066? I understand it was the integrated console for the /165 and /168, but what unique programming considerations were there for it? I see that some of the standalone utilities couldn't be used with it. I couldn't find any information on it in Bitsavers (other than reference to not being able to use the 3066 with some of the standalone utilities). |
|
On Mon, 23 Sept 2024 at 10:01, Doug Wegscheid via <dwegscheid=[email protected]> wrote:
It was interesting from both the hardware and software points of view. I understand that the hardware was based on a stripped down 2250 with no actual graphics capability. Nonetheless it was a vector device, and indeed you could clearly see that the characters were "drawn" rather than being dot-matrix/raster. But somewhere in the middle was some kind of character-to-vector converter, and the driving software had no direct access to the vector stuff. From the software POV it is a straightforward screen with character addressibilily. IIRC you can't just write to it without specifying where the first character is to go, and to read you have to first set the point to read from - hence the non-support by various standalone programs expecting a printer or line-mode console interface.
Yeah... I remember around 1974 that one of our sysprogs dug up the info and modified the then HASP II V3 on MVT to correctly write the $ HASP SYSTEM CATASTROPHIC ERROR message to the 3066 rather than to a 1403 printer that nobody ever noticed until a lot of running around trying to figure out what was wrong had taken place. I'm pretty sure the only actual doc is in the FETOMs and such, though it's possible there is some in the 165 (and 168) Operating Procedures, which don't seem to exist online though there are plenty of references to them. And of course the way anyone has figured out how to deal with this device in "recent" years is by reading the code that does support it in VM (CP and I think CMS EDIT (maybe that was a user mod?)), OS/360 and descendants MVT/MVS/VS1 (that is essentially DIDOCS), and maybe TSS. To my knowledge there was never any kind of application support in the OS/360 line of products, e.g. TSO. And for good reason, given that there is only one such device per mainframe (maybe two for a 168/MP), so it's kind of the world's most expensive personal computer. Tony H. |
|
From a programming standpoint, the 3066 had different geometry (80x33), different set of buffer orders, and completely different CCWs, interrupts, and sense data. I think IBM only put software support in the operating systems was because the beast was THE system console. Nobody ever thought of it as being a "real" terminal that would run TSO or CICS... CMS was an exception but barely usable... Edit worked in terminal mode only as I recall... In my shop when we had the /168, the 3066 was only used during IPL and doing diagnostic work. In fact, the 168 console was stuck in a back corner of the computer room and all the real operation was done from a bank of real 3270s in the center
?
cheers,
William |
|
On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 09:39 AM, William Denton wrote:
I'm reminded how at Clarkson College in the late 1970s, the S/360-65J IPLed off the 1052 in the back, but after IPL most communication with the system was done via a more centrally located DECWriter (which of course was three times as fast and far quieter).? (As a freshman at the time, I had absolutely no clue as to how one makes a DEC serial device a OS/360 system console. 46 years later, I'm still not sure I wanna know¡) ?
Still nervous,
-ahd- |
|
On September 26, 2024 11:38:14 AM "Drew Derbyshire" <swhobbit@...> wrote:
In my shop when we had the /168, the 3066 was only used during IPL andWell later on we did it with the AEA option in a 3174. I have no idea of how it would've been done back then. I'd sure like to know.doing diagnostic work. In fact, the 168 console was stuck in a back cornerI'm reminded how at Clarkson College in the late 1970s, the S/360-65J IPLed off the 1052 in the back, but after IPL most communication with the system was done via a more centrally located DECWriter (which of course was three times as fast and far quieter). -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA |
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----Well you could define a TTY on a 2708 but I don't believe that OS/360 could use that as a console... .. on the other hand pretty sure with a PDP-8 -DaveDave -- |
|
On Thu, 26 Sept 2024 at 11:42, Dave McGuire via <mcguire=[email protected]> wrote: On September 26, 2024 11:38:14 AM "Drew Derbyshire" <swhobbit@...> wrote: When did the Yale-ASCII Series 1 software come along. I'm thinking very early 1980s, but possibly late 70s? I'm pretty sure it supported 328x printers. Hmmm... the earliest I can find on VMSHARE is Oct 1980, but the search function there is very limited. Tony H. |
|
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 05:07 PM, Tony Harminc wrote:
When did the Yale-ASCII Series 1 software come along. Ah, the protocol converters!
?
I was working at the Simon School of Business at the University of Rochester in the mid-1980's. The school had an HP3000 computer and a slew of ascii terminals of various models and manufacturers. Through a grant, the school obtained a 4361 along with a model 7171 protocol converter. I was assigned the task of programming the key mappings to get all the terminals to speak 3270 so students could log into VM (VM/SP 5 at the time).
?
I was originally hired to maintain the HP3000, but the success of the terminal mappings (which I shared with other schools), and the "how to use VM" seminars I conducted for the students made me the 4361 go-to guy and put me in position to ease into the job of sole system programmer. My boss hired someone else to deal with the HP3000 <grin>. |
Dave McGuire
to navigate to use esc to dismiss