I've stumbled on a minor bug in the HERCULES side of VMFPLC2.? It's an easy fix.? Putting this here for do-it-yourself-ers...

Current Functionality: When defining a Control file, any of the three characters ("*" asterisk, "#" octothorpe, and ";" semicolon) in the first non-blank position identifies a "comment" line.

The bug: The CMS filesystem supports filenames which contain the octothorpe in any position so if the name contains the octothorpe in the first position, the control line item is ignored.

The fix:

Steve Z wrote:

I've stumbled on a minor bug in the HERCULES side of VMFPLC2.
It's an easy fix. Putting this here for do-it-yourself-ers...

Current Functionality: When defining a Control file, any
of the three characters ("*" asterisk, "#" octothorpe,
and ";" semicolon) in the first non-blank position identifies
a "comment" line.

Octothorpe? :)

Where the heck are you from? :)

The official Unicode name is "Number sign", but it is also known as the "pound sign" (common in the United States), the "hash key" or "hash sign" (common in the U.K. and also used in some places in the U.S. too), and, of course, due to the popularity of social media these days, it is rapidly becoming known the "hashtag" sign too.

But octothorpe? :)

Until now I had never heard it referred to by that name before! I had to look it up on Wikiepedia to learn of that term's history:

*
*

The bug: The CMS filesystem supports filenames which contain
the octothorpe in any position so if the name contains the
octothorpe in the first position, the control line item is
ignored.

The "#" character is usually defined as the "linend" character and thus cannot normally be used in CMS filenames:


"When you first log on, LINEND is set to the system default symbol.
The system default symbol is a pound sign (#) unless changed in the
system configuration file by the system operator."

*


It *can* of course be used in CMS filenames if you set term linend off beforehand or if the system configuration file defines the linend character as some other character, but by default, "#" cannot normally be used in CMS filenames. Yes, it's a legal filename character as far as CMS is concerned, that is true. But its use in CMS filenames is VERY atypical. It's like using blanks in filenames on *nix: such filenames *are* supported, but their use is VERY atypical and thus discouraged.

So while I appreciate the "bug" report, I myself am not going to bother "fixing" it. :)

If you feel strongly about this however, feel free to create a new GitHub Issue for this "bug" and if the other developers side with you and feel such a change would be worthwhile, then we'll definitely get it fixed for you.

But I wouldn't hold my breath. ;-)

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

It is, nonetheless, a legitimate character for CMS filenames.? They are on the SCRIPT 191 disk.
I consider it a bug because it prevents transfer of files to/from a virtual tape of legitimate filenames.
I fixed it for my purposes.?
If you don't want to fix it or don't think it's a bug, that's fine.?
Just sharing what I found.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:02 AM, Fish Fish wrote:

But octothorpe? :)

Until now I had never heard it referred to by that name before! I had to look it up on Wikiepedia to learn of that term's history:

If you had worked in telephony (as I had) - it wouldn't be new to you.

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 11:02:42 -0800, "Fish Fish"
<david.b.trout@...> wrote:

Steve Z wrote:

I've stumbled on a minor bug in the HERCULES side of VMFPLC2.
It's an easy fix. Putting this here for do-it-yourself-ers...

Current Functionality: When defining a Control file, any
of the three characters ("*" asterisk, "#" octothorpe,
and ";" semicolon) in the first non-blank position identifies
a "comment" line.

Octothorpe? :)

The attached image was found lost in Internet. ??





Roxo

--
---------------- Non luctari, ludare -------------------+ WYSIWYG
Fernando M. Roxo da Motta <mvs@...> | Editor?
Except where explicitly stated I speak on my own behalf.| VI !!
PU5RXO | I see text,
------------ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?-------------+ I get text!

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:20 AM, Fernando M. Roxo da Motta wrote:

The attached image was found lost in Internet. ??

Comment out line 1666 in vmfplc2.c

Roxo wrote:



(LOL!) Cute. :)

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 04:02 PM, Fish Fish wrote:

octothorpe

For me is the she of a shebang #!.

actually in Spanish is called Losange, octothorpe or sostenido, very seldom used, except for computer jocks & musicians.
?
--
Carlos

Argentina

Steve Z wrote:

It is, nonetheless, a legitimate character for CMS filenames.

I know that. I acknowledged that fact it in my reply:

"Yes, it's a legal filename character as far as CMS is
concerned, that is true. But its use in CMS filenames
is VERY atypical. It's like using blanks in filenames
on *nix: such filenames *are* supported, but their use
is VERY atypical and thus discouraged."

They are on the SCRIPT 191 disk.

If there are indeed filenames on the "SCRIPT 191 disk"(?) (I'm guessing that's a VM SixPack thing?) with names containing the "#" character, then IMHO those files should be renamed to something else.


[...]

If you don't want to fix it or don't think it's a bug,
that's fine. Just sharing what I found.

Understood and appreciated. Bug reports are always welcome. As I said, I *personally* don't feel it's worth fixing, but my opinion on the matter is of course only that of one person. The other members of the Hercules development team (as well as possibly other users too!) might feel differently. They might feel, like you, that it is indeed a bug that should indeed be fixed. I honestly don't know! I don't speak for the entire Hercules development team. I'm not the boss. We have no boss. My opinion does not rule the day.

The point is, if you honestly feel it is something that should be fixed, then IMO you should officially report it as such so that it gets fixed. Mentioning it here is fine, but if you want it fixed, you should take the time to officially report it. That's all I'm saying. <shrug>

Cool?

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

The Scaled One wrote:

It *can* of course be used in CMS filenames if you set
term linend off beforehand or if the system configuration
file defines the linend character as some other character,
but by default, "#" cannot normally be used in CMS
filenames. Yes, it's a legal filename character as far as
CMS is concerned, that is true. But its use in CMS filenames
is VERY atypical. It's like using blanks in filenames on
*nix: such filenames *are* supported, but their use is VERY
atypical and thus discouraged.

????

You're mixing CP's command line parsing and CMS. Has nothing to do with CMS itself, which you actually alluded to in passing by context.

We have used the character for "restricted" filenames in CMS within the writing of EXECs (including files processed on CMS running on CP/67) -- especially by systems programmers -- long before the advent of VMFPLC2. And I say "restricted" because most general users didn't understand the CP TERMINAL command. (And, yes, I and many others have been using blanks in filenames for more than a few decades with various *nixisms, along with MVS where we mix blanks and lowercase letters as well! I've also had to write test cases for this handling for various OEM and ISV products since the 1970s.)

The key is that the Hercules version of VMFPLC2 should handle *ALL* legal CMS filenames that can be done. In other words, the equivalent of turning off *ALL* CP/CMS command line editing, and executing as if it were called directly from SVC 202. What it does not need to necessarily handle, however, and without special programming, are filename/filetype/filemode combinations that can only be created by direct DISKIO calls, other than for dealing with lowercase characters in the filename/filetype (easily done in both Rexx and Pipes).

Sidebar: The Wackypedia entry for octothorp really illustrates the generalized acceptance and creation of revisionist history, despite the passing reference to humor, and definitely does not understand the dry humor of some of the engineers of the time -- including what was intentionally "snuck" into patent filings. The Bell Labs engineering folks that my family dealt with at the time ***NEVER*** used any reference to the symbol in conversation or presentations with us other than as the "number sign" or "number symbol". One must wonder what Wacky would do with OS/VU, IEHGOD, the biblical references, creation, and how the intentional Star Trek, 2001 [HAL], and est side references would be "handled" in the programming announcement letter for 5781-WOW.

Mark
dasdman

On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 12:13:44 -0800, "carlos feldman"
<carlfelster@...> wrote:

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 04:02 PM, Fish Fish wrote:

octothorpe

For me is the she of a shebang #!.

actually in Spanish is called Losange, octothorpe or sostenido, very
seldom used, except for computer jocks & musicians.

In Protuguese it is called "sustenido" (like de Spanish "sostenino").
In Brasil is common to read as "cerquilha" (translate to little fence),
tralha (could translate to "thing"), or "jogo-da-velha" (tic-tac-toe).
In Portugal they seem to use "cardinal", as in cardinal number.

Of course, in these days of social media, people use hashtag too.


Cheers.


Roxo

--
---------------- Non luctari, ludare -------------------+ WYSIWYG
Fernando M. Roxo da Motta <mvs@...> | Editor?
Except where explicitly stated I speak on my own behalf.| VI !!
PU5RXO | I see text,
------------ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?-------------+ I get text!

In French, # is a "croisillon" although in Quebec we use "carré" (square), typically in phone messages like "entrez votre code suivi du carré" (enter your code followed by the square). In French, the symbol # is not used for numbers. In Mathematics, it is used for the cardinal of a set, that is the number of elements in the set. The symbol also bears a close resemblance with the musical sharp sign which, if I am not mistaken, is part of the name of the C# programming language, even though # is used for typing convenience.

Rene FERLAND, Montreal

In Italian is often called "cancelletto", that, is, "little gate" (it does resemble an iron wrought gate I suppose).? From there to "little gate(s)", to "guglielmetto", to "little bill", doesn't take that much :) :) :)

Cheers

Marco

On Tue 05 Jan 2021 at 20:41:18 -0300, Fernando M. Roxo da Motta wrote:

In Brasil is common to read as "cerquilha" (translate to little fence),

Yes, in Dutch it is sometimes called "hekje", which also translates as
little fence. The first part of it (i.e. "fence") is pronouced similar
to the English "hack", so #42 is the symbol for the Hackerspace Hack 42.
()

-Olaf.
--
Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- rhialto at falu dot nl
___ Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
\X/ no account be allowed to do the job. --Douglas Adams, "THGTTG"

I have been involved in computers, (operating, programming, analysis, Test and DB management & Director for IT since 1963.


In most of it the # symbol has been referred as hash for IBM, ICL, and a lot more mainframe, mini's and micro based platforms.


What the 2000's call it is a very odd happening but there again I am not a 17 - 40 year old.


Just my 5 pence worth.


Vincent

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 02:10 PM, Steve Z wrote:

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:02 AM, Fish Fish wrote:

But octothorpe? :)

Until now I had never heard it referred to by that name before! I had to look it up on Wikiepedia to learn of that term's history:

If you had worked in telephony (as I had) - it wouldn't be new to you.

I have heard the term before, but can't say from where.

Totally off topic, but...
In another world, I am an antique telephone collector and phone "switcher".
I have 11,700 Bell System Practices documents in PDF in stock, so for hack value I just searched them all with Acrobat for "octothorpe".

I got just one hit:
Bellcore Practice RB 241-120-040, July 1984.? "Measurement and Data Management... DMS-10"

"In the output mode, the system ignores all inputs (except the, octothorpe [#] and asterisk [*]
which form part of two abort commands) and outputs any messages it may have accumulated in the output buffer."

Bill

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 14:39, Bill Lewis <wrljet@...> wrote:

Totally off topic, but...
In another world, I am an antique telephone collector and phone "switcher".
I have 11,700 Bell System Practices documents in PDF in stock, so for hack value I just searched them all with Acrobat for "octothorpe".

I got just one hit:
Bellcore Practice RB 241-120-040, July 1984. "Measurement and Data Management... DMS-10"

Of course the DMS-10 is a Canadian switch, so they would probably use
the Canadian term current at the time. But certainly Nortel borrowed
that from 1960s AT&T usage.

Are we off-topic yet?

Tony H.

It is unless you are in the UK (or use international char sets) as that is the pound symbol (will try and show it but =? ?)

We refer it (#) as well as as the hash symbol but I go back a bit :)


Vincent

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