On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 06:18 PM, Fish Fish wrote:

Forgive me, but I'm Linux illiterate. What does the SDL Hyperion Hercules project / development team need to do to get whatever it was you showed me to install the latest and greatest OFFICIAL 4.x release of SDL Hyperion Hercules? Anything? Is it OUR (the Hercules team's) responsibility? Or someone else's? (i.e. the "package maintainer's" if there is such a thing?)

Fish,

I have a SDL Hyperion 4.4 .deb for Debian and its descendants almost ready to add to our release assets.

Tested so far only by two people other than myself.

Bill

开云体育

I've discovered almost at the same time hercules, hyperion and the IBM IBM VMESA 2.40 distribution, I'm facing a strange thing between Hyperion (4 something) and Hercules (3 something else). Disn't try the ?comunity edition? for the time being. Running Arch Linux, I found it rather simple to have a running hyperion while Hercules 3.x is available as a standard package. I just wanted to thanks all the people that allowed me to relink with my past and made some of my dreams become true, I'm currently trying to become as fluent wih Rexx as I was so long ago, I'll start some digging arounnr VM community Edition hoping becoming able to provide some help in this area. For the time being I'll just concentrate in wishing all the best for all of you. Hoping that 2022 will bring yu all that 2021 forgot and provide, if needed the adequate leverage.

Sorry for my poor Englis, I 'm just trying to share some of my feelings with colleagues all around the world.

Sincerely with all of you

Jean-Pierre Cabanié form a town in the very South of France : Toulouse,

I am a user of homebrew as it is easy. It perhaps would be better to leave this thread and start another (if there is still energy) on the subject of package distribution/building.
For me I have now all that I need with 3.13 and V1.R1.1 working together. Thanks everyone for the rapid and clear resolution of my issue.

-- 
Jean-Pierre Cabanié \_(ツ)_/

Anthony,

Yes, but it should be on [email protected].

Chris
--
<cjar1950@...>



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On Sat, 01 Jan 2022 05:46:17 -0800
"Anthony Smith" <anthony@...> wrote:

I am a user of homebrew as it is easy. It perhaps would be better to leave this thread and start another (if there is still energy) on the subject of package distribution/building.
For me I have now all that I need with 3.13 and V1.R1.1 working together. Thanks everyone for the rapid and clear resolution of my issue.

I am a user of homebrew as it is easy. It perhaps would be better to leave this thread and start another (if there is still energy) on the subject of package distribution/building.
For me I have now all that I need with 3.13 and V1.R1.1 working together. Thanks everyone for the rapid and clear resolution of my issue.

--

Hello, I am the correspondent that started this topic. From a pragmatic viewpoint the specific issue has been corrected by my editing of a configuration file.

Gregg Levine wrote:

Hello!
I thought those folk from the piscean communities do not
have noses?

The good ones do. ;-)

Now a word from one of the managers, now that we have an
official last word on these things, let's move the thread back
to the original premise that of why the correspondent is
having these issues?

AFAIK the OP's issue has already been resolved. Yes?

/g/h390-vm/message/3826

And as far as the new subject of conversation this thread has diverted to (packaging), I think we are done. Or at least I am anyway. I mean, I certainly have nothing more to say on the subject. So from my POV this thread is done. Yes?

Happy New Year everyone! :)

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

Hello!
I thought those folk from the piscean communities do not have noses?
Now a word from one of the managers, now that we have an official last
word on these things, let's move the thread back to the original
premise that of why the correspondent is having these issues?
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 1:46 AM Fish Fish <david.b.trout@...> wrote:

Joe Monk wrote:

The last OFFICIAL release I am aware of is V3.13...

What constitutes "an OFFICIAL release"? How is that defined? Or perhaps a better question might be, WHO gets to decide?

"I can now develop "my" Hercules (Hyperion) the way
I want to, without ...

<snip>

Old news.

The current SDL Hercules hasn't been "mine" for many years now. It was only "my" Hercules for the first year or two of its existence, since during that time it existed as a private fork, and I was the only one making any changes to it (I was the only one with commit access).

Since the creation of the SDL-Hercules-390 GitHub Organization () however (exact date unknown; oddly, github doesn't seem to provide that information! But probably for several years now, since *before* 4.1 was released, which was on Nov 11, 2018), SDL Hercules hasn't been "mine". It's now "the groups" (i.e. the GitHub Organization's), of which I am only one member. It started out as a private fork, but it is no longer a private fork. It is an official GitHub Organization. The GitHub Organization -- not me -- "owns" the repository and assumes full responsibility for it. Not me.

And for the record, the only reason it's called SDL-Hercules-390 instead of just Hercules-390 is because GitHub already had a Hercules-390, so I had to come up with a different name. And since I had my own "SDL" web site, I decided to name it SDL-Hercules-390 to distinguish it from Hercules-390.

Since its creation, it has been the only active Hercules in existence that I am aware of. Hercules v3.x is no longer updated (or sure as hell isn't updated very damn often). And IMHO, SDL Hercules is vastly superior (which I hope the community agrees) to Hercules v3.x too, containing many important bug fixes and enhancements that simply don't exist in v3.x.

So if the official release is determined by popularity, I rather suspect SDL Hercules's v4.x is clearly the official Hercules, not v3.x.

So again, HOW is the "official" release of a product determined? Really? WHO determines what the "official" release is?

But the bottom line is, IMHO, it's largely unimportant. At least to me anyway. I don't really care "which Hercules" is deemed "the official version" and which isn't. All I care about is that *OUR* version of Hercules (SDL-Hercules-390's and the community's) remains the *best* damn Hercules out there.

And if that's not good enough for some people, so be it. It's no skin off my nose.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

Perry looked at Della and then at Paul, and then to the Doctor who was
sitting in the client chair, with Duke asleep in his lap. Junior had
settled with Della, and the lion pair were parked on the couch in
back. Then, "It seems Jack that your observations are paying off
again, it seems the DA is indeed working with a handicap. Although I
had thought that idiot Holcombe was through with being a homicide
division cop." Paul looks up from his position. "Technically he is,
after you proved categorically that not only did he blow it in working
up the case, he caused a big mess which caused a mistrial. And you
know of course Perry that the judge in that case definitely ruled out
trying your client again with that crappy evidence they collected. In
fact the only reason he's there is that Tragg is taking a well earned
vacation someplace." The Doctor offers, "So the handicap in this case
is indeed Holcombe. That's what I get for examining the case from the
perception of using statistics. As well as using logic." From Perry
Mason meets Doctor Who an as yet unpublished memoir.

Joe Monk wrote:

The last OFFICIAL release I am aware of is V3.13...

What constitutes "an OFFICIAL release"? How is that defined? Or perhaps a better question might be, WHO gets to decide?

"I can now develop "my" Hercules (Hyperion) the way
I want to, without ...

<snip>

Old news.

The current SDL Hercules hasn't been "mine" for many years now. It was only "my" Hercules for the first year or two of its existence, since during that time it existed as a private fork, and I was the only one making any changes to it (I was the only one with commit access).

Since the creation of the SDL-Hercules-390 GitHub Organization () however (exact date unknown; oddly, github doesn't seem to provide that information! But probably for several years now, since *before* 4.1 was released, which was on Nov 11, 2018), SDL Hercules hasn't been "mine". It's now "the groups" (i.e. the GitHub Organization's), of which I am only one member. It started out as a private fork, but it is no longer a private fork. It is an official GitHub Organization. The GitHub Organization -- not me -- "owns" the repository and assumes full responsibility for it. Not me.

And for the record, the only reason it's called SDL-Hercules-390 instead of just Hercules-390 is because GitHub already had a Hercules-390, so I had to come up with a different name. And since I had my own "SDL" web site, I decided to name it SDL-Hercules-390 to distinguish it from Hercules-390.

Since its creation, it has been the only active Hercules in existence that I am aware of. Hercules v3.x is no longer updated (or sure as hell isn't updated very damn often). And IMHO, SDL Hercules is vastly superior (which I hope the community agrees) to Hercules v3.x too, containing many important bug fixes and enhancements that simply don't exist in v3.x.

So if the official release is determined by popularity, I rather suspect SDL Hercules's v4.x is clearly the official Hercules, not v3.x.

So again, HOW is the "official" release of a product determined? Really? WHO determines what the "official" release is?

But the bottom line is, IMHO, it's largely unimportant. At least to me anyway. I don't really care "which Hercules" is deemed "the official version" and which isn't. All I care about is that *OUR* version of Hercules (SDL-Hercules-390's and the community's) remains the *best* damn Hercules out there.

And if that's not good enough for some people, so be it. It's no skin off my nose.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

Mark A. Stevens wrote:

[...]

I know enough about RPMs to get myself in lots of trouble,
so I will point you to some online help. From my experience,
a part of the team developing a package, builds and tests
the RPMs.

<snip>

From the sounds of it then, it is not necessarily the developers of the product itself that is necessarily responsible for creating distribution packages, but another team altogether.

I cannot speak for the rest of the team of course, but as for me I'm happy with the way things are.

If someone (or several someones) wants to take on the added responsibility of creating official distribution packages for SDL Hyperion Hercules, they are free to do so. But as for me, I've already got enough on my plate.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

Mark,

As you hinted, it gets quite complicated. Different distributions have
different package methods - RPM is primarily Red Hat based. Debian &
Ubuntu have a different method. As for Slackware, OpenSuse etc, who
knows:-).

Some distributions do have strict controls on the packages legalities
etc..

Chris
--
<cjar1950@...>



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 17:47:09 -0800
"Mark A. Stevens via groups.io" <marXtevens@...> wrote:

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 05:18 PM, Fish Fish wrote:

Forgive me, but I'm Linux illiterate. What does the SDL Hyperion Hercules
project / development team need to do to get whatever it was you showed me
to install the latest and greatest OFFICIAL 4.x release of SDL Hyperion
Hercules? Anything? Is it OUR (the Hercules team's) responsibility? Or
someone else's? (i.e. the "package maintainer's" if there is such a
thing?)

Fish,

I know enough about RPMs to get myself in lots of trouble, so I will point you to some online help. From my experience, a part of the team developing a package, builds and tests the RPMs.

Another point, is that it is up to the developers to bring their wonderful solutions to the attentions of the Distribution Team. They have enough to do without looking for more work. :-)

Official Fedora Information


And it has a pointer to getting your RPMs into the repository
'If you plan to submit a package to the official Fedora repository, follow the procedure in Joining the Package Maintainers ( ).'

This one starts an an even more basic level, 'This is for people with no background in software development.'


I Hope This Helps.

.. Mark S.

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 05:18 PM, Fish Fish wrote:

Forgive me, but I'm Linux illiterate. What does the SDL Hyperion Hercules project / development team need to do to get whatever it was you showed me to install the latest and greatest OFFICIAL 4.x release of SDL Hyperion Hercules? Anything? Is it OUR (the Hercules team's) responsibility? Or someone else's? (i.e. the "package maintainer's" if there is such a thing?)

Fish,

I know enough about RPMs to get myself in lots of trouble, so I will point you to some online help. From my experience, a part of the team developing a package, builds and tests the RPMs.

Another point, is that it is up to the developers to bring their wonderful solutions to the attentions of the Distribution Team. They have enough to do without looking for more work. :-)

Official Fedora Information


And it has a pointer to getting your RPMs into the repository
'If you plan to submit a package to the official Fedora repository, follow the procedure in .'

This one starts an an even more basic level, 'This is for people with no background in software development.'


I Hope This Helps.

?... Mark S.

Mark,

I suspect that the Linux distributors are not aware of Hercules V4.
Perhaps the Hercules developers should point the Linux distributors in
the right direction. They will then test and package Hercules V4 up.

I suspect that there are a number of distributors who need to be pointed
in our direction.

Chris

--
<cjar1950@...>



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 15:10:41 -0800
"Mark A. Stevens via groups.io" <marXtevens@...> wrote:

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 11:41 AM, Rhialto wrote:

I don't know why maintainers of packages are so bad at updating Hercules
to version 4.

There is a difference between the V3 and the V4 distributions of Hercules. Two different groups of develops, two different ideologies, two different implementations,

I would offer that V3.13 is stable, as I have not seen any new releases since 2017 (see below), however, they manage to keep a copy always available in at lease the Fedora development stream.

[xmas@reindeer Hercules_3.13]$ ls -l
total 2592
drwxrwxr-x. 11 xmas xmas?? 12288 *Sep 25? 2017 hercules-3.13*
-rw-r--r--.? 1 xmas xmas 2640742 Dec 31 17:07 hercules-3.13.tar.gz
[xmas@reindeer Hercules_3.13]$

I would, also offer, that V4 is VERY active, with additions and changes, and fixes. This group, take a real pride in advancing the code to be usable for numerous IBM Operating Systems, What I haven't see, maybe because I am looking in the wrong place, is a quick install in a Linux Distribution of V4, as a .tgz, or .rpm. or deb, or whatever, which is visible to the new/curious user of Hercules and all that runs on it.

.. Mark S

Mark A. Stevens wrote:

Fish wrote:

Eh? Since when are official releases of Hercules v4 only beta
releases? What constitutes an "official" release?

[...]

It probably has something to do with the flow, or the lack thereof,
of SDL Hercules V4 into various Linux distributions, such as Arch,
or Fedora, or even Ubuntu.

[...]

... but you can't just issue the distribution's install command,
and get V4.

Forgive me, but I'm Linux illiterate. What does the SDL Hyperion Hercules project / development team need to do to get whatever it was you showed me to install the latest and greatest OFFICIAL 4.x release of SDL Hyperion Hercules? Anything? Is it OUR (the Hercules team's) responsibility? Or someone else's? (i.e. the "package maintainer's" if there is such a thing?)

Thanks!

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 11:41 AM, Rhialto wrote:

I don't know why maintainers of packages are so bad at updating Hercules
to version 4.

There is a difference between the V3 and the V4 distributions of Hercules. Two different groups of develops, two different ideologies, two different implementations,

I would offer that V3.13 is stable, as I have not seen any new releases since 2017 (see below), however, they manage to keep a copy always available in at lease the Fedora development stream.

[xmas@reindeer Hercules_3.13]$ ls -l
total 2592
drwxrwxr-x. 11 xmas xmas?? 12288 Sep 25? 2017 hercules-3.13
-rw-r--r--.? 1 xmas xmas 2640742 Dec 31 17:07 hercules-3.13.tar.gz
[xmas@reindeer Hercules_3.13]$

I would, also offer, that V4 is VERY active, with additions and changes, and fixes. This group, take a real pride in advancing the code to be usable for numerous IBM Operating Systems, What I haven't see, maybe because I am looking in the wrong place, is a quick install in a Linux Distribution of V4, as a .tgz, or .rpm. or deb, or whatever, which is visible to the new/curious user of Hercules and all that runs on it.

?... Mark S

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 04:30 PM, Fish Fish wrote:

Eh? Since when are official releases of Hercules v4 only beta releases? What constitutes an "official" release?

Fish,

It probably has something to do with the flow, or the lack thereof, of SDL Hercules V4 into various Linux distributions, such as Arch, or Fedora, or even Ubuntu. I'm not saying a person can not acquire and install it on these distros. I have, and so have others, but you can't just issue the distribution's install command, and get V4.? For instance, for Fedora, this is what I see available, for all hercules.

[xmas@reindeer ~]$ dnf list *hercules*
Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:06 ago on Fri 31 Dec 2021 04:49:05 PM CST.
Installed Packages
hercules.x86_64?????????????????????? 3.13-8.fc34??????????????????????? @fedora
[xmas@reindeer ~]$ cat /etc/fedora-release
Fedora release 34 (Thirty Four)
[xmas@reindeer ~]$ dnf info hercules
Last metadata expiration check: 0:02:21 ago on Fri 31 Dec 2021 04:43:48 PM CST.
Installed Packages
Name???????? : hercules
Version????? : 3.13
Release????? : 8.fc34
Architecture : x86_64
Size???????? : 6.8 M
Source?????? : hercules-3.13-8.fc34.src.rpm
Repository?? : @System
From repo??? : fedora
Summary????? : Hercules S/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture emulator
URL????????? : http://www.hercules-390.eu/
License????? : QPL
Description? : Hercules is an emulator for the IBM System/370, ESA/390, and
???????????? : z/Architecture series of mainframe computers. It is capable of
???????????? : running any IBM operating system and applications that a real
???????????? : system will run, as long as the hardware needed is emulated.
???????????? : Hercules can emulate FBA and CKD DASD, tape, printer, card
???????????? : reader, card punch, channel-to-channel adapter, LCS Ethernet, and
???????????? : printer-keyboard, 3270 terminal, and 3287 printer devices.

[xmas@reindeer ~]$

?... Mark S.

Joe Monk wrote:

Olaf wrote:

I don't know why maintainers of packages are so bad at
updating Hercules to version 4.

Because OFFICIALLY, there is no released version of Hercules
version 4. ALL versions of hercules version 4 are beta only.
The package maintainers are correct not to update until there
is an OFFICIAL release of hercules v4.

Eh? Since when are official releases of Hercules v4 only beta releases? What constitutes an "official" release?

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...