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This question is directed to anyone that can remember or that can provide evidence: Even though Mark Waterbury is designated by groups.io as the person that uploaded the files in the "Waterloo Tapes" folder of our group's Files area ( /g/h390-vm/files/Waterloo%20Tapes), he tells me it was actually someone else that originally uploaded them to the old (now defunct) Yahoo group's files area. Does anyone recall (or can anyone provide evidence) of who the ORIGINAL uploader was? (i.e. where the files *originally* came from?) I would like to archive a copy of the tapes on my SoftDevLabs FTP site as well (for safekeeping), but I want to be sure to give credit to whoever it was that originally created and uploaded them for us. The tape themselves (i.e. their contents) came from the VM SHARE Project, via the University of Waterloo, courtesy of Sandra Ward, of course. But does anyone know who it was that actually created the .aws files themselves (presumably from a copy of the original physical tapes themselves) and uploaded them for us? Thanks. p.s. to Dave Wade: may I include your two executil.aws and recall.aws files too? -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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On 12/24/22 21:10, Fish Fish wrote: This question is directed to anyone that can remember or that can provide evidence:
Even though Mark Waterbury is designated by groups.io as the person that uploaded the files in the "Waterloo Tapes" folder of our group's Files area (/g/h390-vm/files/Waterloo%20Tapes), he tells me it was actually someone else that originally uploaded them to the old (now defunct) Yahoo group's files area.
Does anyone recall (or can anyone provide evidence) of who the ORIGINAL uploader was? (i.e. where the files *originally* came from?)
I would like to archive a copy of the tapes on my SoftDevLabs FTP site as well (for safekeeping), but I want to be sure to give credit to whoever it was that originally created and uploaded them for us.
The tape themselves (i.e. their contents) came from the VM SHARE Project, via the University of Waterloo, courtesy of Sandra Ward, of course.
But does anyone know who it was that actually created the .aws files themselves (presumably from a copy of the original physical tapes themselves) and uploaded them for us? I'm not certain, but I believe it was George Shedlock. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 08:11 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
I'm not certain, but I believe it was George Shedlock.
I'm not certain, but I believe it was George Shedlock. The original files can be found at: I spent a lot of time trying to find them, and this is the best source, for the tapes prior to this century. This is also where Fish found them 5 years ago, according to narchive.
[H390-VM] SoftDevLabs mirror of George Shedlock Jr's VM Workshop Tapes
?
FYI: Now available at: ftp://www.softdevlabs.com/shedlock/vmwkshop/index.html -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories http://www.softdevlabs.com mail: ***@softdevlabs.com ?... Mark S.
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On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 07:16 PM, Mark A. Stevens wrote:
On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 08:11 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
I'm not certain, but I believe it was George Shedlock.
I'm not certain, but I believe it was George Shedlock.
Other/more recent tools can be found at: ?... Mark S.
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On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 08:10 PM, Fish Fish wrote:
This question is directed to anyone that can remember or that can provide evidence:
Even though Mark Waterbury is designated by groups.io as the person that uploaded the files in the "Waterloo Tapes" folder of our group's Files area (/g/h390-vm/files/Waterloo%20Tapes), he tells me it was actually someone else that originally uploaded them to the old (now defunct) Yahoo group's files area.
Regarding the University of Waterloo tapes, this closest originals I can find are located here, per
Hello Mark,
In the Hercules comunity this tape is available in AWS format.
On cbttape.org it can be found in the vm/370-r6 page.
Regards, Berry.
I Hope This Helps ?... Mark S.
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Mark A. Stevens wrote: Dave McGuire wrote:
I'm not certain, but I believe it was George Shedlock.
The original files can be found at:
I spent a lot of time trying to find them, and this is the best
source, for the tapes prior to this century.
This is also where Fish found them 5 years ago, according to
narchive. Correct. And the files on my SoftDevLabs FTP site are EXACTLY IDENTICAL to the ones that Dave has on his site. But they're not the same tape as the ones whose provenance I am trying to determine. They're not the same tapes. The ones whose provenance I am trying to determine are the ones I mentioned in my original post: the ones YOU uploaded: the "Waterloo Tapes": /g/h390-vm/files/Waterloo%20TapesThe above "Waterloo Tapes" are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the ones on Dave's or my site. It is the "Waterloo Tapes" whose provenance I am trying to determine. You even told me yourself in a private email they weren't the same! "NOTE that these "VM Workshop" tapes are from the 1980s and 1990s, and so most of that stuff may not work, or would require significant effort to rewrite, to work under VM/CE which is based on the 1970s vintage VM/370 Release 6, plus a few "local mods." "Those Workshop tapes are expressly for VM/SP and VM/ESA. The Waterloo tapes from the VM SHARE project from back in the late 1970s and are for VM/370 Rel. 2, 3, 5 and 6." You even reminded me that loading their contents onto a VM system required non-standard handling: "HINT: (this can be important) -- on most, if not all, of those Waterloo tapes, you do a TAPE LOAD * * from the first file of the tape (under VM/CMS), and you get two files, a file named ABSTRACT ABSTRACT A1, and PETAPE MODULE A1 (unless you tell it to load them on some other minidisk)." "You must then use PETAPE instead of the normal VM CMS TAPE command, because that was what was used to create those tapes. PETAPE compressed the data on the tapes, somehow, or at least used a better blocksize, versus the old CMS TAPE command." And based on examining their contents, it does indeed look like they were created with a different command than the usual VM "TAPE" command. Each block of George's "VM Workshop" tapes (hosted on Dave's and my site) start with ".PLC" whereas each block on the "Waterloo" tapes start with ".CMS" So we know they're completely different. I am trying to determine the provenance of the WATERLOO tapes, *not* George's VM Share tapes. Just wanted to make that clear to everyone. Thanks. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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Mark A. Stevens wrote: [...] Regarding the University of Waterloo tapes, this closest originals
I can find are located here [...] Berry van Sleeuwen <
archive.com/search?l=ibmvm@...&q=from:%22Berry+van+Sleeuwen%
22> Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:11:37 -0800 <
archive.com/search?l=ibmvm@...&q=date:20080215>
Hello Mark,
In the Hercules comunity this tape is available in AWS format.
On cbttape.org it can be found in the vm/370-r6 page.
Regards, Berry.
Which Tom Kern then replied to with: "The copy on the Hercules groups is not from the correct year to have these mods on it." () The only tapes I could find on Sam's cbttape site are NOT the Waterloo tapes. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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Hello, all,
The :CIA mods" are on the Release 3 and Release 5 Waterloo tapes.??
By the time of Release 6, it was decided (by Sandra Ward?) that the CIA mods were "too large" to continue to put them on the same tape, so they were moved to a separate tape that could be requested from the VM SHARE project (Sandra Ward, UofW) back in the day,? But, as far as I am aware, no one has a copy of that particular tape archived.? ?However, as far as I know, the "CIA Mods" from the Rel. 5 Waterloo tape should all work fine on VM/370 Rel. 6 and above (e.g. VM/CE or the SixPacks etc.)
Merry Christmas to all, and a Happy New Year! :-)
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The copies on ¡°smrcc.org.uk¡± are from George¡¯s site. I had intended to move them to vm370.org but like many things these days I just get distracted¡ ¡ perhaps soon. I think smrcc.org.uk may vanish soon¡ ? Dave ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark A. Stevens via groups.io
Sent: 26 December 2022 01:17
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] "Waterloo Tapes" in H390-VM group's Files area? On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 08:11 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: I'm not certain, but I believe it was George Shedlock.
I'm not certain, but I believe it was George Shedlock.
The original files can be found at:
I spent a lot of time trying to find them, and this is the best source, for the tapes prior to this century.
This is also where Fish found them 5 years ago, according to narchive. [H390-VM] SoftDevLabs mirror of George Shedlock Jr's VM Workshop Tapes FYI: Now available at:
ftp://www.softdevlabs.com/shedlock/vmwkshop/index.html
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: ***@softdevlabs.com
?... Mark S.
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"You must then use PETAPE instead of the normal VM CMS TAPE
command, because that was what was used to create those tapes.
PETAPE compressed the data on the tapes, somehow, or at least
used a better blocksize, versus the old CMS TAPE command."
And based on examining their contents, it does indeed look like they were
created with a different command than the usual VM "TAPE" command. Each
block of George's "VM Workshop" tapes (hosted on Dave's and my site) start
with ".PLC" whereas each block on the "Waterloo" tapes start with ".CMS"
So we know they're completely different.
I am trying to determine the provenance of the WATERLOO tapes, *not*
George's VM Share tapes.
Just wanted to make that clear to everyone.
Thanks.
Fish I think I know where these came from, but I am away with my family so can't check. I'll let you all know when I am back Dave
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
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Hi, Dave,
Those VM Workshop tapes that have "PLC" in there were created with VMFPLC2 ... VMFPLC2 was used by IBM to create distribution tapes, and uses a better blocksize than the ordinary CMS TAPE command.??
So, for those Workshop tapes, just use VMFPLC2 instead of TAPE (or PETAPE in the case of the older WATERLOO tapes).
Hope that helps,
Mark S. Waterbury
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[...] The ones whose provenance I am trying to determine are
the ones I mentioned in my original post: the ones YOU
uploaded: the "Waterloo Tapes": (Oops!) Wrong Mark. Sorry! <me: embarrassed> <%-? -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 02:16 PM, Fish Fish wrote:
(Oops!) Wrong Mark. Sorry! <me: embarrassed>
Probably me, and I probably had it coming. ;-) In any case, a followup question. Bob Abele had a tape, waterloo.aws, which also had a number of files, on it. Does that tape/file have anything we need? ?... Mark S.
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Mark, I think we have extracted everything usable and beneficial using from that tape. So the command recall code, EDIT modifications, ?several compilers, EXEC utilities all came from that tape. Probably other stuff as well. Dave ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark A. Stevens via groups.io
Sent: 07 January 2023 17:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] "Waterloo Tapes" in H390-VM group's Files area? On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 02:16 PM, Fish Fish wrote: (Oops!) Wrong Mark. Sorry! <me: embarrassed>
Probably me, and I probably had it coming. ;-)
In any case, a followup question. Bob Abele had a tape, waterloo.aws, which also had a number of files, on it. Does that tape/file have anything we need?
?... Mark S.
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On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 09:27 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
I think we have extracted everything usable and beneficial using from that tape
I agree as far as "general interest" stuff is concerned. Looking at the abstract of the tape, I recognize indeed many items present on VM/370 CE. But there might be items of more "personal interest" on the tape, in my case, these two:
OSPDS, a general purpose exec to manipulate members of an OS PDS in CMS,
PDISPLAY, a CMS version of the POWER/VS PDISPLAY command,
(which I installed in CMSUSER).
Cheers,
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote: [...] OSPDS, a general purpose exec to manipulate members of an OS PDS in CMS,
PDISPLAY, a CMS version of the POWER/VS PDISPLAY command, Both of those sound very nice! -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 03:13 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
Fish
I think I know where these came from, but I am away with my family so can't check. I'll let you all know when I am back
Dave
WATERLOO6.7z is identical (binary comparison on the uncompressed file) as Bob Abele's waterloo.aws tape. So that one can be credited to Bob? ?... Mark S.
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But where did Bob Abele get his copy from?? :-/
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On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 07:37 PM, Mark Waterbury wrote:
But where did Bob Abele get his copy from?? :-/
Does anyone know if Bob Abele is still around to ask? My GUESS is he got it from the University of Waterloo, since they are identical. [xmas@vm370dev tapes]$ diff abele_waterloo.aws WATERLOO6.aws[xmas@vm370dev tapes]$ diff abele_waterloo.aws WATERLOO5.awsBinary files abele_waterloo.aws and WATERLOO5.aws differ[xmas@vm370dev tapes]$ An aside, in reading the abstract documentation on WATERLOO6.aws? ... M1086V00CIA MODS ... it points to RELEASE6 MEMO, which starts out like this. FSVIEW: RELEASE6 MEMO D1???????????????? Lines 1-39/45 F80[1-79]? FSVIEW V1.2.5We have several large mods that other installations have implemented.? Forus to give away code, we must place it in the public domain.? Hence, wetend to send a file to Waterloo only once, and send updates directly tothose few installations that we know are running the code.? Our currentsubmissions include: ...
As David F goes through each, there doesn't seem to be any changes to the CIA modifications since Release 5. The new mod included in WATERLOO6, is CLASSIFY. Though he doesn't say so in the memo, TAPEMON is on the WATERLOO5.aws tape.
FSVIEW: UW5 ABSTRACT T2?????????? Lines 1170-1208/1268 F80[1-79]? FSVIEW V1.2.5
M1122V00TAPEMON-- The tape monitor system is a real-time program operating in
the? VM/370 environment which receives and processes user requests for tape
drives and mounts.? It was designed to 1) enhance data security for tapes on th
VM/370 Interactive system, 2) provide an equitable and efficient system for
allocating tape drives, 3) reduce VM operator (VMOP) involvement in assigning
tape drives to users, and 4) reduce tape management software (TMS) operator
involvement in handling tape mount requests.? This modification requires
M1112V00PROC and M1121V00MARCO on this tape.--Ron Hooper, CIA, Tel. (703)
351-6078,? January 26, 1979.
NUMBER OF BLOCKS REQUIRED: 0000581
It may not be the absolute latest, but it appears this will be the best we can get.
I Hope This Helps
?... Mark S.
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I imagine from a real tape which came with the tapes used to build the original system. From what I remember, and it's a fuzzy memory, the process was that each site that received a copy agreed to make two copies for other sites. So most sites had a copy of the tape.
Dave
But where did Bob Abele get his copy from?? :-/
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Dave McGuire
Mark A. Stevens
Ren¨¦ Ferland