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Noob ISO help and guidance
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Ray Jewhurst
Hello all, I am a retro-computing enthusiast and I do most of my retro work through emulation. I have played around with MTS, DOS, and MTS a bit on Hercules.? Now what I really like to learn is VM. I am quite intrigued by the OS and I would also like to try to run Amdahl Unix since I have a strong *Nix background. The problem is that IBM mainframe OS's? always come off as quite foreign to me. I caught on very quickly to the various DEC OS's for example but I have followed a "non-fundamental" type tutorial on how to install Amdahl Unix on VM and frankly I was overwhelmed. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would like to know if anyone would be able to steer me to some good beginning texts or tutorials. I am familiar with Moshix's Youtube channel but it has so many video that I don't know where to begin. Also, I was wondering if there is any "For Dummies" type text like there is for DOS/VS. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Ray |
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There are a couple of editions of a book (I think later it was split into two) edited by Gabe Goldberg and Phil Smith called The VM/ESA Systems Handbook, or maybe Applications Handbook. Maybe the earlier edition wasn't VM/ESA, but I can't find my copy which I think is off in my storage space. If you can find one (it's hardcover) at a reasonable price, I'd go for it. It's more geared to running and configuring things than fundamental principles, but it's a good collection of stuff. It won't help you directly with running Linux or other UNIXes on VM - that wasn't a thing except maybe for Amdahl UTS - when the book was written. There's lots of help on this list, though. Tony H. On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 at 22:46, Ray Jewhurst <raywjewhurst@...> wrote:
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Ray Jewhurst
Thanks Scott! Unfortunately, I already own that book and while it is helpful, it doesn't cover such things as setting up VMs and shutting down and whatnot and those are the kinds of things I'm going to need to know in order to run things on my own emulated "Iron." I will re-read that section of the book though. I actually bought it for OS/400 and VMS but at least the aforementioned section will teach me CMS. Thanks Ray ? On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 11:03 PM ScottC via <sccosel=[email protected]> wrote:
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýRay I am not surprised, ?and I would say that VM/CMS is problematic even for die hard mainframers¡. ¡ and we don¡¯t have a ¡°for dummies¡± guide either¡.. ? I think if I try and set the scene you may find things easier¡.. The first thing to realize is that you are not trying to lean ¡°the OS¡± but two operating systems.. ?
? In normal use the VM hypervisor creates a Virtual Machine for each ¡°user¡± and the users loads or IPLs (Initial Program Load) in IBM speak their own copy of CMS into their VM. CMS is a very simple operating system. After all it thinks it has a whole IBM Mainframe to itself. So it does not need to worry about Virtual Memory, multi-threading, or sharing files. Whilst modern CMS only runs in a VM the first versions would run on ¡°bare metal¡± so its pretty much a real OS. CP is also pretty simple. It creates VM¡¯s but generally each VM has its own disks (there is some sharing of read only disks). It does use Virtual Memory and a lot of smoke and mirrors. Together they are rather more than the sum of the parts¡ ? Once you grasp this concept, you may find it easier to navigate the world of VM. Of course the second challenge is that you are also learning what were back in the day multiple roles. You need to be an end users, systems programmer and operator, all rolled into one¡ ? As for where to go next¡ ¡ well perhaps the introductory ,manuals IBM provides some of which are here:- ? ? so ? ? and ? ? but the latter is pretty impenetrable so then the resources others have indicated¡ ? Dave ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ray Jewhurst
Sent: 14 November 2022 03:46 To: [email protected] Subject: [h390-vm] Noob ISO help and guidance ? Hello all, ? I am a retro-computing enthusiast and I do most of my retro work through emulation. I have played around with MTS, DOS, and MTS a bit on Hercules.? Now what I really like to learn is VM. I am quite intrigued by the OS and I would also like to try to run Amdahl Unix since I have a strong *Nix background. The problem is that IBM mainframe OS's? always come off as quite foreign to me. I caught on very quickly to the various DEC OS's for example but I have followed a "non-fundamental" type tutorial on how to install Amdahl Unix on VM and frankly I was overwhelmed. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would like to know if anyone would be able to steer me to some good beginning texts or tutorials. I am familiar with Moshix's Youtube channel but it has so many video that I don't know where to begin. Also, I was wondering if there is any "For Dummies" type text like there is for DOS/VS. Any help would be appreciated. ? Thanks, ? Ray |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýScott, Whilst it can help, it also talks a lot about stuff we don¡¯t have in VM/370 such as XEDIT Dave ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of ScottC via groups.io
Sent: 14 November 2022 04:03 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Noob ISO help and guidance ? Hi Ray, The entire book can be found here: |
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Ray, ? I?@'ed you on the VM discord channel.? I'm a VM enthusiast as well, and have been working to get things figured out with running VMCE ( ) up to what I fondly remember from my college days (which was VM/SP 5).? EE is a good substitute?for XEDIT, and is under active development.? I also have some VMS experience, so if you have a concept question from DEC to IBM, I might be able to help translate. Cheers, Chris. MAINT at N00DLE on the HNET. On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 8:46 PM Ray Jewhurst <raywjewhurst@...> wrote:
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