Hercules-390 & VM/370

Re: VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)

macbaer@... (Michael Grom) — Mon, 12 May 2025 09:16:00 -0700

You guys are simply fantastic. Thanks for your time!
To wrap it up:

No SNA in VM/370 including CE - full stop. The only way to reach it from a terminal or terminal emulation is to tn3270 to the Hercules console port.
A 3174 with a 2.4MB Floppy is equipped to boot large microcode with the features necessary to use tn3270 as a protocol to attach a CUT terminal to a mainframe's tn3270 port.

This tn3270 traffic might be funnelled through a router like a Cisco (network bridge).

There are working examples (config panels9 on how to configure a 3174 to connect the CUT terminal via tn3270.7

The intended topology of this fellow vintage mainframe guy is to connect the terminal (dunno if it is DFT or CUT) to the 3174, from there to the Cisco he owns via X.25 and from there via DLSw to Hercules (maybe over the Internet, I'd be happy to volunteer) and then into preferably VM/370 - which will not happen according to the information you guys provided due to the lack of SNA in VM/370. That fellow guy is also concerned about the SNA configuration (e.g. VTAM node config in MVS if the target was MVS) which shouldn't be too much of a problem if I was reading the information about 3705.c and DLSw support right.

So I will come back to him and check

- does he have a CUT terminal

- is his 3174 capable of communicating to a mainframe using tn3270 over TCP/IP -> 2.4MB Floppy for big microcode

I reckon the comms between the 3174 and the Cisco might well be X.25 instead of Token Ring. From the Cisco he would have to decide if he stays on local Ethernet or routes through the WAN to some hosted Hercules service.

Now if his 3174 supports tn3270 via TCP/IP this would make the life a whole lot easier also for him - no SNA worries and VM/370 as a possible target. I'll let you know how this turned out.
Thank you again for your insights!

Michael

TK5 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"

TK4- on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"

Lime and limpid green, a second scene
Now fights between the blue you once knew
Floating down, the sound resounds
Around the icy waters underground
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten

(Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd)

Re: VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)

mcguire@... (Dave McGuire) — Sun, 11 May 2025 13:38:50 -0700

On 5/11/25 15:33, Dave Wade via groups.io wrote:

However some 3174s can run TCP/IP and if they have CUT mode terminals then these can initiate TN3270 sessions to Hercules.
I have done this via Token Ring through a Cisco Router which routed the IP across to an Ethernet network.
You need either two 2.4 Mb floppy drives or one 2.4 and a hard disk, and an Ethernet or Token Ring card.

We've done this at LSSM (with your help many years ago Dave, if you recall) and can provide configuration panel snapshots to anyone who needs them.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Re: VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)

dave.g4ugm@... (Dave Wade) — Sun, 11 May 2025 12:33:49 -0700

Michael,

So you are correct there is no SNA in VM/370 so a VTAM connection isn't possible. However some 3174s can run TCP/IP and if they have CUT mode terminals then these can initiate TN3270 sessions to Hercules.
I have done this via Token Ring through a Cisco Router which routed the IP across to an Ethernet network.
You need either two 2.4 Mb floppy drives or one 2.4 and a hard disk, and an Ethernet or Token Ring card.

Dave

On 11/05/2025 19:51, Michael Grom via groups.io wrote:

Re: VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)

jaymaynard@... (Jay Maynard) — Sun, 11 May 2025 12:32:05 -0700

Sadly, VM/CE and other VM/370 systems do not speak SNA at all.

VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)

macbaer@... (Michael Grom) — Sun, 11 May 2025 11:51:18 -0700

Dear Forum,

a fellow board member on a German vintage computer forum, who has a 3174 and a Cisco Router asked me if it is possible to attach these to a Hercules emulator running VM/370. For the best of my knowledge, all 3270 in VM are locally attached. Is there a chance to configure such a SNA connection in VM/370 or is that only available in later versions of VM? So far, all examples on the Internet were targeting MVS 3.8j with TK4- and a Hercules with an updated 3705 device. Still kind of bumpy I daresay but working. However, that fellow keeps asking for VM, not MVS.

kind regards

Michael

TK5 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"

(Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd)

Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support

wably@... (Bob Polmanter) — Wed, 07 May 2025 16:41:16 -0700

Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?

I don't see the point either. Even if it could be made to work, why would anyone want to? We can define all of the local 3270s we need and then some.

I am the author of the DIAGNOSE 58, 7C, and 8C modifications that many here are using. I did not put any support within them for remote 3270s. I didn't see the need, or any future need. Further, if someone did have a "remote user" that they wanted to connect to their VM system, they could just define a local 3270 device and let them access it through the internet with an IP and port number, and security considerations, as appropriate.

However, I dont think it should be deleted. It is part of CP. Sometimes it is referenced for a "how to do something". And there is no need to deprecate it. Simply do not define remote clusters in DMKRIO.

My thoughts...

Regards,

Bob

Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support

dave.g4ugm@... (Dave Wade) — Wed, 07 May 2025 00:52:43 -0700

On 07/05/2025 03:06, Ross Patterson via groups.io wrote:

On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 13:28 William Denton via groups.io <williamedenton=[email protected]" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">[email protected]> wrote:

Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?

Unless someone has an actual bisync controller, or a 3275 or 3276, I don't see the point. I'm not aware of anything that emulates one, and TN3270 is an excellent alternative for distant emulated 3270s.

Whilst its not Hercules I am sure there are a few folks around with P390's and the 5-pack used to run just fine on mine. I no longer have it, but MCA cards that will run bi-sync are not uncommon, neither are 3174's with comms adaptors that will also run bi-sync. So it is possible to have remote 3270's on CE but I can't see any one doing it except as an act of pure torture..

Ross

Dave

Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support

hansolofalcon@... (Gregg Levine) — Tue, 06 May 2025 20:36:46 -0700

Hello!
William (and Jay, and Dave), for my efforts, I would sometimes run a Hercules instance supporting the original Two Pack variety of VM 370. And would wow the people in my LUG with doing so, from where ever that event was meeting. In fact, one individual who had an objectionable opinion regarding mainframes and the dino occupants of the big museum here in the City was so surprised, he ended up changing his objectionable one for a good one. So, what all of you do is worth doing it.
-----
Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@...
"I'm still so smart I amaze even myself.", Han Solo

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jay Maynard via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2025 10:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support

It should be possible to gen and load EP into a 3720 - or the 3705 emulator, as well. There's only one problem: I'm not aware of any copies of EP running around for either platform.

On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 4:59 PM Dave Wade via http://groups.io <dave.g4ugm=mailto:gmail.com@groupsio> wrote:

On 06/05/2025 21:27, William Denton via http://groups.io wrote:
Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?

For a long time Hercules didn't support remote 3270s. In fact I have no idea how to support them now, but I think in theory it should be possible to generate and load EP into a 3720

I ask this because I'm working on a pretty major restructure to local 3270 support and noticed that one of the existing updates (HRC101DK) appears to have been abandoned for remote 3270s. A few other local 3270 updates have not even attempted to address remote 3270 support (e.g. MORETIME, Diag8C, etc)

Thoughts?

It never was good. I wouldn't miss it...

cheers, William

--
Jay Maynard

"As the two continued to chase separatists across the planet with the Wookiee guide running ahead of them, they all but collided the last three. And in a dead end. They turned to fire their weapons at the three, then there was a loud explosion. And the Wookiee had displayed his bowcaster which was loaded with explosive bolts. And the three lay dead. The Jedi Knight stood there mouthing insults in as many languages spoken in the Republic." From a Timelord's travels through the Old Republic during the Clone Wars, a still unpublished memoir.

Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support

jaymaynard@... (Jay Maynard) — Tue, 06 May 2025 19:38:46 -0700

It should be possible to gen and load EP into a 3720 - or the 3705 emulator, as well. There's only one problem: I'm not aware of any copies of EP running around for either platform.

Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support

ross.patterson@... (Ross Patterson) — Tue, 06 May 2025 19:07:05 -0700

On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 13:28 William Denton via groups.io <williamedenton=[email protected]" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">[email protected]> wrote:

Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?

Unless someone has an actual bisync controller, or a 3275 or 3276, I don't see the point. I'm not aware of anything that emulates one, and TN3270 is an excellent alternative for distant emulated 3270s.

Ross

Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support

dave.g4ugm@... (Dave Wade) — Tue, 06 May 2025 14:59:19 -0700

On 06/05/2025 21:27, William Denton via groups.io wrote:

[email protected]">
Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?

For a long time Hercules didn't support remote 3270s. In fact I have no idea how to support them now, but I think in theory it should be possible to generate and load EP into a 3720

[email protected]">

I ask this because I'm working on a pretty major restructure to local 3270 support and noticed that one of the existing updates (HRC101DK) appears to have been abandoned for remote 3270s. A few other local 3270 updates have not even attempted to address remote 3270 support (e.g. MORETIME, Diag8C, etc)

Thoughts?

It never was good. I wouldn't miss it...

[email protected]">
cheers, William

_._,_._,_

Dave
G4UGM

Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support

williamedenton@... (William Denton) — Tue, 06 May 2025 13:27:59 -0700

Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?

I ask this because I'm working on a pretty major restructure to local 3270 support and noticed that one of the existing updates (HRC101DK) appears to have been abandoned for remote 3270s. A few other local 3270 updates have not even attempted to address remote 3270 support (e.g. MORETIME, Diag8C, etc)

Thoughts?

cheers, William

Re: File /epubs_pdfs.txt uploaded

berry.vansleeuwen@... (Berry van Sleeuwen) — Fri, 18 Apr 2025 13:52:39 -0700

Hi All,

I have tested the list, indeed all these files are available on publibz.

In total I have 16.062 files from publibz. I am wondering if publibfp.dhe.ibm.com/epubs/ contains the same files or that there are others (as well) over there.

There is a file https://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/csfspg20.pdf, but that's not a PDF. Since it contains EBCDIC code I expect it's a BOO file, at least the header looks like to be bookmanager format.

Also a number of files report errors. At least izpz**80.pdf (11 files) do not report their creation date. When running pdfinfo upon all files I did get quite a number of warnings during processing. I don't yet know for sure to what extent the error affects the content.

Next step is to include the IBM document number and title to all files. I have listed the content but a lot of titles are missing, none of them list the document number in the PDF metadata so a lot of work to do.

Regards, Berry.

Op 07-04-2025 om 10:37 schreef Group Notification:

Re: DIRECTMAP issue

marXtevens@... (Mark A. Stevens) — Thu, 17 Apr 2025 06:51:35 -0700

On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 02:08 AM, Bertram Moshier wrote:

When I run DISKMAP again for the USER DIRECT FILE (adding only one new mini-disk (3380 001 for 121), I'm getting the following error:

01:56:39 PASCAL 192 3350 00006 00025 00020

I went back to the original e-mail. The actual "error" is an incorrect directory statement. PASCAL is invalid and should be MDISK.

That said, the DISKMAP program doesn't process that properly, so there is an error in the detection and processing of an incorrect MDISK statement.

I Hope That Helps.

... Mark S.

Re: File /epubs_pdfs.txt uploaded

polluks@... (Stefan A. Haubenthal) — Tue, 08 Apr 2025 03:13:44 -0700

For your information Manx, a catalogue of online computer manuals.

VM/370 CE V1R1.2, Hercules 3.13 on macOS

Re: Oh FULIST, Where Have You Gone?

San-Lorenzo@... (Martin Scheffler) — Mon, 07 Apr 2025 18:56:32 -0700

On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 09:20 AM, Mike Beer wrote:

Martin Scheffler was working on RDRLIST and FULIST,

[email protected] | EE goes XEDIT - testing new features

I have a REXX driven prototype of RDRLIST based on The New EE and similar preparations for FILELIST, but my development has come to a full stop due to my health.

I still do not have access to ADHD medication (stimulants) and I am unable to write instructions how to use a bleeding edge release of The New EE.

Martin

Re: Oh FULIST, Where Have You Gone?

berry.vansleeuwen@... (Berry van Sleeuwen) — Mon, 07 Apr 2025 11:55:03 -0700

Kris,

Do you also have an alias for FILELIST to catch FIELLIST? ;-)

Regards, Berry.

Op 07-04-2025 om 18:40 schreef kris.buelens via groups.io:

Re: Oh FULIST, Where Have You Gone?

kris.buelens@... — Mon, 07 Apr 2025 09:40:06 -0700

FULIST and FLIST are quite similar. The first look was identical.

As end-user you need some adaption to migrate to FIELLIST, there you can type over the file information. In FULIST/FLIST here was/is an empty area in which to type the command to execute, and you had to hit a PF-key to extend that command area

The FULIST/FLIST layout was <filename filetype fm> <empty zone> <file attributes like date/time ets>

Kris Buelens

File /epubs_pdfs.txt uploaded

@... — Mon, 07 Apr 2025 01:37:28 -0700

The following items have been added to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

/epubs_pdfs.txt

By: petermstockdill@...

Description:
Some current IBM PDF publications at https://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/*

Re: Oh FULIST, Where Have You Gone?

marXtevens@... (Mark A. Stevens) — Sun, 06 Apr 2025 14:48:04 -0700

On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 10:26 AM, Dave Wade wrote:

It seems to me that every VM Programmer had their own favourite tweaked version of these utilities....

What's the use and where's the fun in being a VM Programmer if you can't tweak the utilities to your liking ;-)

I guess this means that FILELIST is closer to FULIST than FLIST is, and I'll stop looking/asking.

Thanks folks! Another rabbit hole filled in.

... Mark S.