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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
Dave Wade wrote:
[...] Define "First Print Out".The very first printout printed to the printer after an IPL! VM has a "shedload" of printer and spool control command.Understood. So you can vary the physical printer on/offline.Understood. You can start, drain and stop the spoolerUnderstood. Then you can change the spooler classes.Understood. It possible that any one of these can trigger the "FF" character.Possibly. Possibly not. I don't know! But all I'm referring to by "first printout" is the actual very first time that VM/370's REAL printer actually PRINTS something. Look at it this way: your Hercules printer device is defined to create a text file: 000E 1403 print00e.txt crlf Start with a completely empty "print00e.txt" print file. Then bring up Hercules and IPL VM/370. Then print something. then examine the print file (print00e.txt). Does the file contain 0xff? Take note of the file size (how many bytes large it is). Then print something else (another listing). Then examine the file again (print00e.txt). Does the second listing in the print file also start with a 0xff? I suspect it won't. I suspect every listing written to the print file after the first one will start with just a normal 0x0c (i.e. ASCII form-feed character). Then if you want, yes, you can do your other tests. You can stop the printer in VM and start it again. You can vary it offline and back online again. You can change the printer's print class, etc. You can do all of those tests too if you want. I don't care. That's your business. I'm only interested in whether the problem occurs on subsequent printouts or only on the very first one after an IPL. Because *that* is where I suspect the bug is in VM. Yes, the bug could be elsewhere. I readily concede that point. But if, as I suspect, the problem occurs only on the very first printout after an IPL but not on subsequent printouts (after an IPL), then I feel that is probably the best place to start looking for the bug: in its "first time" logic that writes spooled listings to its real printer. THAT is the most likely place for the bug to be IMO. That's all I'm saying. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
I am uploading the print file and the trace log to the "0-Temp" directory on h390-vm. Bob On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 3:42 PM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
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-----Original Message-----Define "First Print Out". VM has a "shedload" of printer and spool control command. So you can vary the physical printer on/offline. You can start, drain and stop the spooler Then you can change the spooler classes. It possible that any one of these can trigger the "FF" character. Either that or maybe it's (VM/370) trying to send some type of unusualCould be any one of the above... --Dave |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 at 14:04, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Except that without looking at the EBCDIC<->ASCII table in use, it maySo I loaded up a basic VM/370 built a long time ago from the starter system and it does it. So no modification, no added software, just as it came from the release tape. not have been a X'FF' that VM cranked out. Tony H. |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
Mike wrote:
Yes, I am sure about 0xff. As a matter of fact, ...<snip> Have you tried doing a CCW trace yet? After powering on Hercules, BEFORE you IPL VM/370, enter the command "t+00e" (or whatever the device address is for your printer). Then once VM/370 comes up, print something. Then print something else. (The smaller the better of course). Then shutdown and exit Hercules and send me (or temporarily upload to the group's Files area) the resulting Hercules log file. Thanks. p.s. What's your printer device statement look like in your Hercules configuration file? -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
Dave Wade wrote:
Fish wrote:[...] Before you (or Bob? or anyone else) does so however, you should first confirm whether or not it, as I suspect it might, only occurs on the very first printout or not, or whether it always occurs on every printout.I would suggest taking a close look at VM/370's spooler logic.Well VM/SP still does it. I suspect its intended behaviour. If it always occurs, then I can accept that it's expected behavior. If it only occurs on the very first printout however, then it's IMO probably a bug. Either that or maybe it's (VM/370) trying to send some type of unusual undocumented CCW command code/data to the printer that Hercules isn't expecting. Maybe some type of special undocumented "reset" command perhaps? -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
Well VM/SP still does it. I suspect its intended behaviour. If I finish my Spanish homework I will have a look. Dave |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
Fish wrote:
[...] And I also seem to recall it only does this on the veryI suspect VM/370 contains a bug which only occurs on the first printout that is printed after an IPL. VM/370's current behavior is to only issue a form-feed (page eject) at the START of a printout, but not at the end of a printout. Instead, it simply stops printing in the middle of the last page! When the NEXT printout is printed, THEN it issues a page eject (form-feed), so that it always begins at the top of a new page. Because of this unusual behavior (issuing its page eject (form-feed) at the START of a report instead of at the END of the report), I suspect there's a "first time" bug somewhere in VM/370 wherein something is not getting initialized properly that is causing garbage to get sent to the printer instead of a page eject (form-feed), but only on the very first printout. Once the first printout has been printed, then it corrects itself such that from then on things work properly. I would suggest taking a close look at VM/370's spooler logic. I'm sure you'll find the bug there somewhere. A bug which was likely fixed in later versions of VM. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
So I loaded up a basic VM/370 built a long time ago from the starter system and it does it. So no modification, no added software, just as it came from the release tape. It puts the 0xFF on the first print file. So its been there since the mists of time.
Dave |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
Mike wrote:
Yes, I am sure about 0xff. As a matter of fact, first 5 bytesYeah, I think I saw that same sequence myself when I was messing with VM/370 a while back. That's why I think it's VM/370 itself doing it. And I also seem to recall it only does this on the very first printout too (I think). From then on it behaves correctly (I think). But I could be wrong. It's been a long time since I've messed with VM/370. You can see this in files 5664167MEMO.txt and 5664147MEMO.txtYep. Definitely looks familiar. This character is found even in pdf files created from theseOf course! It's not a whitespace character, so it's getting interpreted as a visible print character, just as it should be. BOTTOM LINE: The mystery lies with VM/370, not Hercules. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
Bob Bolch wrote:
Are you saying that the printer CCW opcodes like:Um, er, uh ... Not any more I'm not! Yeah, that was a definite brain fart. Sorry. :( Most carriage control characters are translated into a series of LF (or CRLF) characters, and the actual TEXT of the line is translated from EBCDIC to ASCII. For those carriage control characters which cause a form eject (i.e. skip to the top of the next page) to occur however, Hercules outputs a "form-feed" character, expressed as '\f' in ASCII (which just so happens to be the exact same hexadecimal value in both ASCII and EBCDIC: hexadecimal 0C). Sorry for the confusion. :( But Hercules definitely doesn't write out 0xff characters on its own. The 0xff that's getting written MUST be some unusual data byte that the guest (VM/370) is actually printing/sending to the printer that just so happens to get translated by Hercules (via its CODEPAGE tables) into an ASCII 0xff character. But whatever is causing the 0xff to get written to Mike's printer output file, it's NOT Hercules that's doing it. It's the guest (VM/370). Why it does that I don't know. z/VM doesn't do it. Why does VM/370? -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
Yes, I am sure about 0xff. As a matter of fact, first 5 bytes are 0xff 0x0d 0x0a 0x0d 0x0a and 0x0c which is a form feed. You can see this in files 5664167MEMO.txt and?5664147MEMO.txt which are available in the files area of this group. This character is found even in pdf files created from these text files.?
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
Hi Fish, I am confused.? Are you saying that the printer CCW opcodes like: 09 Write space 1 11 Write space 2 89 Write and skip to channel 1 01 Write w/o space are being translated by the 819/1047 translate table to get bytes that end up in the ASCII print file that?Hercules creates?? Bob Bolch On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 2:28 PM Fish Fish <david.b.trout@...> wrote: mikeci@... wrote: |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
mikeci@... wrote:
I noticed that first byte in the output is 0xff.I have no idea. Are you sure it's 0xff and not something else? Did you examine it using a hex editor? I do know that when the guest (VM/370 in this case) issues a skip to channel-1 command to the printer for example (i.e. "skip to the top of the next page"), that command code normally gets translated from EBCDIC to its ASCII equivalent by Hercules according to whatever translation CODEPAGE is in effect in Hercules, so if you're using some unusual CODEPAGE, then the resulting printer file that Hercules produces will obviously appear to contain "unusual" characters from the host system's (i.e. Windows's or Linux's, etc) point of view. Why yours is 0xff I have no idea. Are ALL of your printer output files like that? Or only the very first one? It might be something VM/370 is doing only on its very first printout. Do a "devinit" on your printer file (or otherwise empty it or clear it out) and then print something else. Does it also contain a 0xff? Mine contains 0x0c, which is an ASCII "FF" ("Form Feed"). I also noticed that there is no end banner.The original VM/370 as delivered never produced any end-of-print-job banners, only begin-of-print-job. Can this be added?I'm sure it probably could by customizing some file somewhere, but I don't know how to do so myself. Maybe someone else knows? -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýFolks, ? The first character is 09f on mine. However, remember the host knows nothing of ASCII, its printing in EBCDIC and sending hardware printer control characters to the printer. Hercules is then converting these to ASCII, so I think it¡¯s a Hercules question. You might want to print in EBCDIC to see what its really sending. It may also be that this character is used for handshaking with some of the tools that convert these listings to PDF etc. ? As for an end banner, well by default VM was delivered with no end banner. We left it that way. Its stored in DMKBOX. Fell free to add one, but note there are updates already applied to DMKBOX. ? Dave ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Bolch
Sent: 18 February 2022 11:42 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [h390-vm] A question about vm/370 print output #VMCE ? The mainframe printer interface produces channel commands and data which is turned into the file on the host platform.? The specifics of the host operating system interface in Hercules controls what ends up in the host printer file. I suggest that you ask this question on the hercules forum:? Bob Bolch ? On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 12:59 AM <mikeci@...> wrote:
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Re: A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
The mainframe printer interface produces channel commands and data which is turned into the file on the host platform.? The specifics of the host operating system interface in Hercules controls what ends up in the host printer file. I suggest that you ask this question on the hercules forum:? Bob Bolch On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 12:59 AM <mikeci@...> wrote: I noticed that first byte in the output is 0xff. Is there a reason for this character to be there? I also noticed that there is no end banner. Can this be added?? |
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A question about vm/370 print output
#VMCE
I noticed that first byte in the output is 0xff. Is there a reason for this character to be there? I also noticed that there is no end banner. Can this be added??
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Re: WAKEUP - does a emulation of this module exist
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 09:33 AM, Anthony Smith wrote:
MACLIB MAP tells me the SCHMAC MACLIB is not a library. I have had a look and it is full of macros that I can read by eye including the ??EQU that defines the registers. Cannot work out what could be the issue with SCHMAC other than perhaps it originates from a later VM?Sorry. I did not actually attempt to use it before I uploaded it. It is from a later version of VM. SCHMAC?? MACLIB?? A1? F??? 80?? 1757??? 176? 1986-04-22 05:45 Somewhere around SP 4/SP 5. Give me a few days, and I'll get it converted to the older format. ?... Mark S. |
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Re: WAKEUP - does a emulation of this module exist
MACLIB MAP tells me the SCHMAC MACLIB is not a library. I have had a look and it is full of macros that I can read by eye including the ??EQU that defines the registers. Cannot work out what could be the issue with SCHMAC other than perhaps it originates from a later VM?
Ant |
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Re: How do I load a windows folder containing 100+ assemble/copy/macro files onto my 'A' disk under VM
#sixpack
"James Oswald via groups.io" <oswaldjb@...> writes:
Greetings, I'm running the VM370sixpack-1_3 Beta system, and I'm wondering how IGet a copy of the program vma. One place it looks likes it is available is ". This program is used like zip/unzip but with vmarc archives (the the archive file type used by VM), then trnsfer the resulting archive to VM run vmarc on the VM system to extract your source. There may be other ways, but this seems to be the simplest. But then again, I'm not a VM expert, just fooled around with some of the vm/370 systems such as the various Sixpack or Community Editions. -- Bill Doughty, N2OCM MVS Sysprog & UNIX/Linux Sysadmin (retired) |
Mark A. Stevens
Anthony Smith
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