Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
Correct, APL did not initially support 3270's as these did not
yet exist.
You needed a 2741 terminal attached via start/stop line.? I know
this because my first IT job (early 70's) was in Poughkeepsie with
a company that offered time sharing services using APL to
not-for-profit organizations, usually schools.? How exactly this
is configured with Hercules I have no idea.? There was work done
on the Hercules 270x emulation (the mainframe end point of the
start/stop telephone line) for APL.
What I am saying is, APL will work as described in the Primer on
Hercules.? Will APL work under VM?? Do not know.? Whether support
within APL existed for a system console (which you are using) to
be a terminal that could edit APL is unclear to me.? Rather
doubtful.? Entirely different character set.
Never actually worked in the data center in that job so do not
know the system end.?? I do remember that APL was run on DOS and
later they moved to DOS/VS.
Harold Grovesteen
On 4/12/24 03:20, Dave Wade wrote:
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Marco,
I
suspect the book was written before 3270 terminals existed,
so not sure how to delete a line.
Whenever
you get a CP read “BEGIN” will try to restart your program.
Dave
?
?
I am following what is printed in the
APL\360 Primer book.
To delete a line (i.e. #3)
[3] press the ATTN key, followed
immediately by carrier return.
1) is carrier return some 2741 key that
PCOMM 3270 emulator doesn't have, or is carrier return to
be intended as carriage return?
2) if I press ATTN and CR I find myself
at the CP prompt, how is it possible to return to my APL
session?
Thanks for any suggestions, I'm not at
all knowledgeable about the VM/370 system.
Marco
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
Yes, by entering BEGIN you return to the APL session but the line to be deleted is sitll here.
Marco
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
Marco, I suspect the book was written before 3270 terminals existed, so not sure how to delete a line. Whenever you get a CP read “BEGIN” will try to restart your program. Dave ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of M Verpelli via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 9:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [h390-vm] VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function? I am following what is printed in the APL\360 Primer book. To delete a line (i.e. #3) [3] press the ATTN key, followed immediately by carrier return. 1) is carrier return some 2741 key that PCOMM 3270 emulator doesn't have, or is carrier return to be intended as carriage return? 2) if I press ATTN and CR I find myself at the CP prompt, how is it possible to return to my APL session? Thanks for any suggestions, I'm not at all knowledgeable about the VM/370 system.
Marco
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VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
?
I am following what is printed in the APL\360 Primer book.
To delete a line (i.e. #3)
[3] press the ATTN key, followed immediately by carrier return.
?
I have these problems:
1) is carrier return some 2741 key that PCOMM 3270 emulator doesn't have, or is carrier return to be intended as carriage return?
2) if I press ATTN and CR I find myself at the CP prompt, how is it possible to return to my APL session?
?
Thanks for any suggestions, I'm not at all knowledgeable about the VM/370 system.
Marco
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Re: Have a working storage under VM/370
Done the TK5 update 3 under VM/370 (and also via the help here : /g/h390-vm/topic/mvs_under_vm_370_and_3390/102804041?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate/sticky,,,20,2,0,102804041,previd%3D1701232831135968515,nextid%3D1683996992282281024&previd=1701232831135968515&nextid=1683996992282281024)
It is a bit slow cf with the native version, but given more memory 12M instead of 8M, it is workable.? Just not easy to find things e.g. where is the syslog etc.? Time to learn more.
For the docker issue I raised, rvjansen approach via the image way is a good way like snapshot.? ?
Before I further attempt there, I note that seems to have another strategy to the issue :??i.e. somehow use permanent files redirection (I guess; need more knowledge about Docker).? I will investigate both of these but my priority now is trying now to bring up VSE, given so far VM/CMS, MVS 3.8 TK5 update 3 all good.? Very nice week; never thought I will or can run VM.?
And thanks for forcing me to look back to run the "real" non-docker VM370 first.??
?
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Re: Have a working storage under VM/370
Apology for troubling you all guys.
Finally getting my real (non-docker) vm 370 to work.? It saved the file.
I did try to install vm370 for a while but only successful last few days using Docker and enjoy very much the CMS process (compared with my old ISPF ...).? (But once you master a bit and learn a bit of VM/370 it seems it helped a lot.).?
I think you are right to point out that it is very likely the commit issue.? Spending me a few days totally forget this need to commit.? That meant a few changes to the throw as once quit it will auto logout of the docker ...?I will test it later.?
Currently have a bigger mountain to climb I guess - runnning VSE and MVS on the newly minted VM 370.? I supported these two starting from 1989 June 5, not a nice day to start may I say.??
Apology once again.? Sorry.
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Re: Have a working storage under VM/370
well, we can try to support running in Docker (a bit).
So please tell me you are persisting the container after you stop it, to a new image. Otherwise, you will start a new container from the old image, and that will contain the unchanged disk images.
You need to do something like (showing you with my netrexx s/390x image):
? ?test git:(master) ? docker run -it rvjansen/netrexx WARNING: The requested image's platform (linux/s390x) does not match the detected host platform (linux/arm64/v8) and no specific platform was requested root@6ffb982a8a2d:~# ls root@6ffb982a8a2d:~# nrc Usage: /bin/NetRexxC.sh [-run] [other options] filename
*** WARNING *** Ambiguous z/Architecture detection! ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? oldest detected generation is system-z, g6-ec12, ldisp_fast, extimm, pcrel_load/store, cmpb, cond_load/store, interlocked_update, txm NetRexx portable processor 4.05-alpha build 196-20221110-1459 Copyright (c) RexxLA, 2011,2022. ? All rights reserved. Parts Copyright (c) IBM Corporation, 1995,2008.
Arguments are: in_file_specification... [-option]...
Use "--help" to show all options root@6ffb982a8a2d:~# exit exit
Never mind the warnings, did not see them before but that is not the point here.
What is the point, is that after you exit, you need to persist the container image with 'docker commit'
? ?test git:(master) ? docker commit 6ffb982a8a2d sha256:929e7bcda67826e4011cbf3c636c612eb8339205327f14072ed7d3cb14051c89
And the, you can rename the persisted container image for use the next time:
? ?test git:(master) ? docker tag 929e7bcda67826e4011cbf3c636c612eb8339205327f14072ed7d3cb14051c89 rvjansen/netrexx
The greater good here is that if you messed up something, you can just choose not to persist the image and restart with an unchanged one - no real need for shadow files in a container.
Let us know if that was the problem!
best regards,
René Jansen.
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On 9 Apr 2024, at 17:22, kwccoin@... wrote:
OK I do not see that this is so as all seems to work.? I start to use other's dockerfile.? I now actually doing it all under my dockerfile as I tried sixpack as well as the latest se 1.3 for vm.? Also, the mvs tk5 update 3 work fine under docker (except you have to use web console).? All run ok except vm/370 is not presistent.? I can even login operator, shutdown there and follow the prof (in moshix video) and in the console do stop sysclear before quit.? And the system even say?# DMKCKP960I System WARM START data saved? ? ... (Could there be a start procedure issue.)
Docker is just provide a linux environment to run all these.
OK I can try non-docker one day ... see you guy one day.
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Re: Have a working storage under VM/370
Actually if you tell us which docker image you are using and which commands you use to run it we might be able to add more info.. ? Dave ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Wade via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2024 5:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Have a working storage under VM/370? On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 05:16 PM, <kwccoin@...> wrote: OK I do not see that this is so as all seems to work.? I start to use other's dockerfile.? I now actually doing it all under my dockerfile as I tried sixpack as well as the latest se 1.3 for vm.? Also, the mvs tk5 update 3 work fine under docker (except you have to use web console).? All run ok except vm/370 is not presistent.? I can even login operator, shutdown there and follow the prof (in moshix video) and in the console do stop sysclear before quit.? And the system even say?# DMKCKP960I System WARM START data saved? ? ... (Could there be a start procedure issue.)
Docker is just provide a linux environment to run all these.
OK I can try non-docker one day ... see you guy one day.
?All I can say is I never use docker and don't have this issue. No one else has reported this problem. Even on Linux.
Dave
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Re: Have a working storage under VM/370
On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 05:16 PM, <kwccoin@...> wrote:
OK I do not see that this is so as all seems to work.? I start to use other's dockerfile.? I now actually doing it all under my dockerfile as I tried sixpack as well as the latest se 1.3 for vm.? Also, the mvs tk5 update 3 work fine under docker (except you have to use web console).? All run ok except vm/370 is not presistent.? I can even login operator, shutdown there and follow the prof (in moshix video) and in the console do stop sysclear before quit.? And the system even say?# DMKCKP960I System WARM START data saved? ? ... (Could there be a start procedure issue.)
Docker is just provide a linux environment to run all these.
OK I can try non-docker one day ... see you guy one day.
?All I can say is I never use docker and don't have this issue. No one else has reported this problem. Even on Linux. Dave
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Re: Have a working storage under VM/370
OK I do not see that this is so as all seems to work.? I start to use other's dockerfile.? I now actually doing it all under my dockerfile as I tried sixpack as well as the latest se 1.3 for vm.? Also, the mvs tk5 update 3 work fine under docker (except you have to use web console).? All run ok except vm/370 is not presistent.? I can even login operator, shutdown there and follow the prof (in moshix video) and in the console do stop sysclear before quit.? And the system even say?# DMKCKP960I System WARM START data saved? ? ... (Could there be a start procedure issue.)
Docker is just provide a linux environment to run all these.
OK I can try non-docker one day ... see you guy one day.
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Re: Have a working storage under VM/370
I believe this is a docker issue. You need to ask the person who created the docker image. We don’t support docker here. ? Dave ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of kwccoin@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2024 1:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Have a working storage under VM/370? as all my changes are gone, isthere something I can do to see the changes. ?Is some start up option issues or …?
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Re: Have a working storage under VM/370
as all my changes are gone, isthere something I can do to see the changes. ?Is some start up option issues or …?
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Re: Have a working storage under VM/370
The changes are stored in shadow files, defined by the SF= so should persist.
Dave?
More a MVS/VSE/DB2 guy and have been doing some COBOL/Assemble/FORTRAN over MVS 3.8j.
3 days ago now I discovered I can run VM/370 easily under Docker (never able to install one under Macos/Windows/Linux), both sixpack and CE version.
Last 2 days I can run the wikipedia HERON (based on the source code here) plus some advise about the library etc. All goods, and even can add some EXEC file etc. except ...
everytime I shutdown the CP and then quit the hercules, all goes into smoke, both cmsuser and maint USER.??
I looked at the docker internal and find this vm370ce.conf (and are those disk ro meant read-only)
#########################################################################
# Here are the disk drives used by the CMS version from CP/67.
# Read the readme-CMS67.txt file before using.
06d0? ? 2314? ? disks/vm14-0.cckd ro sf=disks/shadows/vm14-0_*.shadow
06d1? ? 2314? ? disks/vm14-1.cckd ro sf=disks/shadows/vm14-1_*.shadow
06d2? ? 2314? ? disks/vm14-2.cckd ro sf=disks/shadows/vm14-2_*.shadow
06d3? ? 2314? ? disks/vm14-3.cckd ro sf=disks/shadows/vm14-3_*.shadow
I wonder anyway to enable it to be rw (so that cmsuser can run and keep the source etc.) in any easy manner like copy file, add an exec etc.
For your kind advice.
P.S. (For the path to add dasd, minidisk, cp gen, ... etc.? I am afraid this may be needed.? But any other option will be fine :-).? Last time really successfully did SYSGEN for DR is 30 yearsa ago.? I did not success even MVS 3.8j sysgen about 5-7 years ago.? Hence ... well if and only if ...)
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Have a working storage under VM/370
More a MVS/VSE/DB2 guy and have been doing some COBOL/Assemble/FORTRAN over MVS 3.8j.
3 days ago now I discovered I can run VM/370 easily under Docker (never able to install one under Macos/Windows/Linux), both sixpack and CE version.
Last 2 days I can run the wikipedia HERON (based on the source code here) plus some advise about the library etc. All goods, and even can add some EXEC file etc. except ...
everytime I shutdown the CP and then quit the hercules, all goes into smoke, both cmsuser and maint USER.??
I looked at the docker internal and find this vm370ce.conf (and are those disk ro meant read-only)
#########################################################################
# Here are the disk drives used by the CMS version from CP/67.
# Read the readme-CMS67.txt file before using.
06d0? ? 2314? ? disks/vm14-0.cckd ro sf=disks/shadows/vm14-0_*.shadow
06d1? ? 2314? ? disks/vm14-1.cckd ro sf=disks/shadows/vm14-1_*.shadow
06d2? ? 2314? ? disks/vm14-2.cckd ro sf=disks/shadows/vm14-2_*.shadow
06d3? ? 2314? ? disks/vm14-3.cckd ro sf=disks/shadows/vm14-3_*.shadow
I wonder anyway to enable it to be rw (so that cmsuser can run and keep the source etc.) in any easy manner like copy file, add an exec etc.
For your kind advice.
P.S. (For the path to add dasd, minidisk, cp gen, ... etc.? I am afraid this may be needed.? But any other option will be fine :-).? Last time really successfully did SYSGEN for DR is 30 yearsa ago.? I did not success even MVS 3.8j sysgen about 5-7 years ago.? Hence ... well if and only if ...)
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Re: How do I report a bug in VMCE?
Bertram, ? OK so I have looked further at this. There are two things that influence how the terminal behaves. There is the System Operator which is defined in DMKSYS and the system console which is defined in DMKRIO. On a quick checking the base VM/370 behaves in a similar way to VM/CE, so its working as IBM supplied it. I need to do more checking but even if I do find its different, it is not something I would rush to fix. Its low impact, and in a tricky area of code. No one is paid to fix it, we rely on someone wanting to fix it. ? Dave ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bertram Moshier
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2024 11:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] How do I report a bug in VMCE?? Hi, Yes on operator I do q v storage ? On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 07:11 AM, Bertram Moshier wrote: I discovered an issue with the CP Define Storage command when issued by the OPERATOR userid.?
What is the issue exactly? Because, on VM/370 CE, I can use cp define storage fine on the OPERATOR virtual machine: CP executes the command and the virtual storage is changed accordingly. Just remember that OPERATOR has the same privilege classes? as MAINT so, on OPERATOR, query storage will show the real storage defined in DMKSYS, while query virtual storage will show the virtual storage set by cp define storage.
HTH,
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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Re: How do I report a bug in VMCE?
Hello Jeff,
Thank you so very much
On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 6:42?AM Jeff Henry < jbhenry@...> wrote: Hello,
Questions:? Is there a way another user can get the TOD on the responses of CP? ?
CP TERM TIMESTAMP ON
... will put the timestamp on ALL output, not just CP messages.
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Re: How do I report a bug in VMCE?
The procedure to get?a change in the VMCE?distribution is to begin by opening an issue at:
Bob Bolch
Hello Dave,
Thank you for an explanation that gives solid reasons.
Questions:? Is there a way another user can get the TOD on the responses of CP?
If not, how does one go about suggesting a change/enhancement to VMCE?? In this case, I'd say it would be two changes.? CP and CMS
Thank you again for your help,
Bertram Moshier WB8ERT
Bertram … oh and the OPERATOR ID behaves differently because its specified in DMKSYS as the SYSOPER ID and VM treats this differently.? You can see this when you logon. You get times on the CP output ? L OPERATOR???????????????????????????????????????????????????? ENTER PASSWORD:??????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 08:02:56 DASD 190 LINKED R/O; R/W BY MAINT; R/O BY 003 USERS?? 08:02:56 DASD 19E LINKED R/O; R/W BY MAINT; R/O BY 003 USERS?? 08:02:56 DASD 19D LINKED R/O; R/W BY MAINT; R/O BY WAKEUP????? 08:02:56 FILES:? NO RDR, 002 PRT,? NO PUN????????????????????? 08:02:56 LOGON AT 08:02:56???? FRIDAY 04/05/24???????????????? 08:02:56 GRAF 0C0 LOGON? AS OPERATOR USERS = 005?????????????? VM Community Edition V1 R1.2?????????????????????????????????? ? Which don’t appear for other user-ids. ? L MAINT CPCMS????????????????????????????????????? DASD 19D LINKED R/W; R/O BY 002 USERS????????????? DASD 19E LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS????????????? DASD 190 LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS????????????? DASD 194 LINKED R/W; R/O BY CPWATCH??????????????? FILES: 002 RDR,? NO PRT,? NO PUN?????????????????? LOGON AT 08:17:53???? FRIDAY 04/05/24????????????? VM Community Edition V1 R1.2?????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????? Y (19E) R/O??????????????????????????????????????? U (19D) R/O??????????????????????????????????????? Ready(00001); T=0.01/0.01 08:17:57???????????????? B (5E5) R/O??????????????????????????????????????? Ready; T=0.01/0.01 08:17:57??????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? So its not because of the name but because you have said it’s the System Operator…. … I’ll see if I can find where is is documented… The Operators Guide GC20-1806 makes a brief reference to some differences… ? Dave ? ? ? ? On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 03:42 PM, Bertram Moshier wrote: Yes on operator I do q v storage
Hello Bertram,
I followed the steps you indicated and I do observe the same behaviour as you. But that seems to come from the fact that the virtual machine is in TERM MODE VM (because of a command to that effect in PROFILE EXEC). If you set TERM MOD CP just before the define storage, you will be able to ipl CMS fine just afterwards. Now, should the virtual machine behave like that in TERM MODE VM or not, I don't know.
Cheers,
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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Re: How do I report a bug in VMCE?
Hello,
Questions:? Is there a way another user can get the TOD on the responses of CP? ?
CP TERM TIMESTAMP ON
... will put the timestamp on ALL output, not just CP messages.
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Re: How do I report a bug in VMCE?
I set up, so guess I "own" it.
Harold Grovesteen
On 4/4/24 05:13, Dave Wade wrote:
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Bertram,
Its
ok to just put it on here. There is a GITHUB site but not
sure who owns it.
?
?
Dave
?
?
Hello,
How does someone report a bug to VMCE (CP, CMS, RSCS, etc.)?
I looked but couldn't find the location.
Thank you,
Bertram Moshier
WB8ERT
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M Verpelli
