Hi Frank, Please show the exact command you are typing, and tell us the terminal emulator you are working?with. With your setup, does the EDIT command work? Thanks/Bob Bolch
On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 6:08?AM Frank D. Engel, Jr. < fde101@...> wrote:
I am setting up a new CE 1.2 installation for the first time and
when I try to run EE I am getting the message:
<{>}T Please press ENTER to cancel fullscreen operation
Are there steps I need to take to enable the diag 58 support?
I've been searching around but have not found any information on
this so far.
On 8/14/21 20:59, Bob Bolch wrote:
Hi Mike,
The Community Edition includes all the
capabilities of the latest Sixpack releases. The Diagnose 58
full screen support is definitely available.
Bob Bolch
Hey anyone. Does the vm/370-CE have
the patches for the full screen diagnose? Or is it only
in the VMDIST?
?
Thanks.
|
I am setting up a new CE 1.2 installation for the first time and
when I try to run EE I am getting the message:
<{>}T Please press ENTER to cancel fullscreen operation
Are there steps I need to take to enable the diag 58 support?
I've been searching around but have not found any information on
this so far.
On 8/14/21 20:59, Bob Bolch wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Mike,
The Community Edition includes all the
capabilities of the latest Sixpack releases. The Diagnose 58
full screen support is definitely available.
Bob Bolch
Hey anyone. Does the vm/370-CE have
the patches for the full screen diagnose? Or is it only
in the VMDIST?
?
Thanks.
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
Hi, Tony,
Adding to this thread ...
Similar to Amdahl's VM/PE, IBM's VM/SP and VM/HPO added some additional options, if you had suitable hardware, such as a 3081. See:
? ??
for details.? Here is a brief excerpt:
o ? The ?Preferred Machine Assist is added to S/370 mode for a VM
? ? batch guest.
? ? - ? A ?microcode assist supporting the VM/SP High Performance
? ? ? ? Option.
? ? - ? Permits ?a ?MVS/SP ?V=R ?preferred ?guest ?to ?run with a
? ? ? ? minimum of VM control program intervention.
? ? - ? Permits preferred guest usage of storage exceeding 16MB.
o ? VMA is enhanced and now handles segment protection on 3081.
So, with PMA, you could run MVS/SP as a "trusted" virtual machine, as a V=R guest, and CP would dispatch this virtual machine in real supervisor state, when the guest PSW was set to supervisor state.? I recall that PMA also had provisions so that if VM CP were to "crash" the PMA guest running MVS/SP could then take over the whole machine and continue to run "stand-alone."
I cannot recall when (what year) Amdahl's VM/PE became available, but based on a quick google search, I found this document:
? ??
This indicates that VM/PE was available for VM/370 Rel. 5 and 6, and also with or without VM/BSEPP or VM/SEPP, by around March of 1980, so well before VM/SP and VM/HPO became available.?
I just remember Amdahl as being very competitive and impressive with both the hardware and software.
Mark
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
Daniel,
I have not specifically validated the two patches myself for TK5.? However, I do know that Rob Prins is including those two patches pre-installed on the TK5 Update 2.? I do not know when Update 2 is scheduled to be released though.? You might ask him.
Im quite sure the patches would work on TK5, as the internals of TK5 haven't changed over TK4 in the affected areas.? What I am not sure about is if the installation JCL and control statements would work on TK5 due to changes in volsers, and/or other PTFs that may have been applied to JES2 that may cause one of the patches to fail in the SMP APPLY step.? Or, it could work fine.? Im referring to the ZBP0001 patch here.
The other one, the VMEXIT feature (to drop DIALed terminals), does not use SMP to install the feature and that is a simple assembly and link, and then easy modifications to SYS1.VTAMLST.
Regarding my prior post about the CP SET STB VR command, I forgot to mention that you need to have the STFIRST option in the directory entry for MVS in the CP directory. For example:
USER MVS ....
OPTION ECMODE REALTIMER BMX VIRT=REAL STFIRST
The STB VR command won't do anything if you do not specify STFIRST.? CP SET NOTRAN does not have a special consideration in this regard.? When you do a CP Q SET, it should look like this:
CP Q SET????????????????????????????????????????? ?
MSG ON , WNG ON , EMSG TEXT, ACNT ON , RUN OFF??? ?
LINEDIT ON , TIMER REAL, ISAM OFF, ECMODE ON????? ?
ASSIST ON SVC?? TMR? , PAGEX OFF, AUTOPOLL OFF??? ?
IMSG ON , SMSG OFF, AFFINITY NONE?? , NOTRANS ON? ?
STBYPASS VR???????????????????????????????????????
Note that NOTRANS and STBYPASS are the last two entries and that ASSIST is ON for SVC and TMR.
I always run MVS 3.8 as a guest of VM and I have done so for years.? It is the only way I run it.? It is a little slower yes, though I am not having the slowdowns you were reporting.? I accept the performance loss for the flexibility of being in a virtual machine, the control, and also being able to submit jobs and receive output at CMS. I don't run VM/CE however; I still use VM Sixpack 1.2.? That is not a statement against VM/CE, rather, I just have never switched over, preferring my system the way it is already set up.
Regards,
Bob
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
Thanks for the tips.
ECPSVM was/is turned on in the Hercules config.
I did add the other 2 CP commands after IPLing MVS and it did make a small difference.
But overall, I seem to be suffering the expected challenges that @Tony elaborated on in his response.
@Bob, in one of the Moshix videos, a couple of patches that you have for TK4 under VM/370 were highlighed.? Have either of those been validated vs. TK5?
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
Daniel,
The one tuning tip that will make the largest beneficial impact is to make sure you are running with ECPS enabled.? In your Hercules configuration file, ensure that you have a line that says ECPSVM YES
Also, ensure that your V=R area is large enough.? I use an 8M area.
After MVS is IPLed as a guest, there are two other things you can do that will help by a small amount. These collectively might boost performance by another 1-2%.? From the MVS userid's virtual machine console, type in:
#CP SET NOTRAN ON
and then:
#CP SET STB VR
Both of these commands are reset at IPL, so that is why you must reissue them after IPL.? The NOTRAN ON setting tells CP that your guest is running V=R and that it no longer needs to provide CCW translation for i/o's that MVS issues.? The STB VR setting tells CP that it no longer needs to provide shadow page table maintenance for MVS because it is running V=R.??? CP knows that MVS is running V=R but nevertheless you must manually turn these options on yourself.? The savings in CP overhead by avoiding these tasks is small but it is not nothing.
NOTRAN and STB? (STBYPASS) current settings will show in the results of a CP Q SET command issued by that userid.
ECPS still remains the number one benefit to VM performance when running guest operating systems (and even when you are not running a guest OS).
Regards,
Bob
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
[...] MVS is extremely slow.? An assembler complie, link and go job that takes 3 seconds under native MVS takes 28 seconds under MVS as a VM guest.
Are there suggested performance tuning steps that I ought to take?? I'm already running with VIRTUAL=REAL.
I'd say you are reliving what went on from the late 1970s through to the mid 1980s (when XA came out, and with it SIE). The S/370 architecture has nothing like SIE, and so every time MVS executes a privileged instruction there is an interrupt, and CP has to do something with it. In some cases it's not much more than returning to the interrupted code, but in most cases there is serious work to be done. This is mostly still true even if you run V=R, because DAT is still on in the VM that MVS is running in.
This is the cost of having true virtualization where the guest has no architected way of knowing that it's running in a VM, and by the same token the host has only clues that it infers about what the guest is doing. The S/370 architecture allows for this, but most contemporary ones did not, and so in the rare cases where it was tried, some kind of para-virtualization had to be used, where the guest OS was modified either statically or dynamically to not issue certain instructions and instead issue others that could be detected by the host.
An early and very successful product that addressed this was Amdahl's VM/PE. This would dispatch a single special V=R guest VM in real supervisor state, and various on-the-fly zaps were made to the guest MVS so it wouldn't damage the real environment. So MVS could issue real SIOs to real devices with CCWs pointing to real memory addresses, with VM not having to be involved. Likewise for small but expensive things like changing storage keys.
VM/PE was amazingly good, though there was the occasional bug where real supervisor state got muddled with virtual supervisor state, and that rarely ended well. IBM came out with VM/HPO around the same time. IIRC it didn't dispatch guests in real supervisor state, but provided other performance improvements for preferred guest(s?).
A quite different approach is to provide "assists" in VM to perform common operations that the OS needs. These are opcodes not in the PofO that do things like manipulate guest OS data structures. Some of these were also implemented on real machines - generally the smaller ones with "vertical" microcode, because it ran so much faster than the effectively emulated S/370 instructions. Assists, along with page fault handshaking (where the host informs the guest that a page reference is going to take time to resolve, and the guest can dispatch other work until notified about the page-in) was widely used to run MVT, VS1, and DOS guests, all of which had at most a single address space. I don't know that such a facility was ever implemented for MVS or guest VM/370, perhaps because managing the multiple guest address spaces in such an environment would not be supported by the host (VM) paging system.
If you want to play with this, there is all kinds of reference stuff out there, though I don't think VM/PE was ever open sourced, and HPO happened right at the time of IBM's OCO push, and so IIRC never had complete source. If you're just interested in running your apps, well with modern host hardware you can probably survive...
Tony H.
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
Hi Daniel, The setup provided on VMCE is for TK4, and you are using the newer TK5.? I don't use mvs here so I don't keep up with those changes. The disks seem to have been rearranged, and it looks like you have adapted.? Bob Bolch
On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 8:56?PM Daniel L. Srebnick via <dan= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bob:
From my hercules.conf:
#
# TK5 DASD
#
0390 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5res.390
0391 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5cat.391
0392 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5dlb.392
0380 3380 mvs/dasd/int001.380
0190 3390 mvs/dasd/tso001.190
0191 3390 mvs/dasd/tso002.191
0192 3390 mvs/dasd/tso003.192
0248 3350 mvs/dasd/page00.248
0249 3350 mvs/dasd/spool0.249
0290 3390 mvs/dasd/work01.290
0291 3390 mvs/dasd/work02.291
0292 3390 mvs/dasd/work03.292
0293 3390 mvs/dasd/work04.293
0298 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5001.298
0299 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5002.299
0340 3350 mvs/dasd/cbt000.340
0341 3350 mvs/dasd/cbt001.341
0342 3350 mvs/dasd/cbt002.342
From the Hercules startup, here's confirmation that Hercules sees the 3390s:
HHC00414I 0:0390 CCKD file mvs/dasd/tk5res.390: model 3390 cyls 1114 heads 15 tracks 16710 trklen 56832
HHC00414I 0:0391 CCKD file mvs/dasd/tk5cat.391: model 3390 cyls 1114 heads 15 tracks 16710 trklen 56832
HHC00414I 0:0392 CCKD file mvs/dasd/tk5dlb.392: model 3390 cyls 1114 heads 15 tracks 16710 trklen 56832
From my USER DIRECT file:
USER MVS MVS 8M 16M G?????????? ?
?OPTION ECMODE VIRT=REAL STFIRST
?IPL 390??????????????????????? ?
?CONSOLE 009 3215?????????????? ?
?SPOOL 00C 2540 READER *??????? ?
?SPOOL 00D 2540 PUNCH A???????? ?
?SPOOL 00E 1403 A?????????????? ?
?SPOOL 00F 1403 A?????????????? ?
?SPOOL 30E 1403 A?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 390 390?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 391 391?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 392 392?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 380 380?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 190 190?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 191 191?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 192 192?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 248 248?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 249 249?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 290 290?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 291 291?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 292 292?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 293 293?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 298 298?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 299 299?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 340 340?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 341 341?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 342 342?????????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C0 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C1 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C2 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C3 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C4 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C5 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C6 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C7 3270?????????????
When I logon to MVS:
LOGON MVS
ENTER PASSWORD:
?
STORAGE IS VIRTUAL=REAL
DMKLOG090E DEV 390 NOT DEFINED; DEV 390 NOT AVAILABLE
DMKLOG090E DEV 391 NOT DEFINED; DEV 391 NOT AVAILABLE
DMKLOG090E DEV 392 NOT DEFINED; DEV 392 NOT AVAILABLE
LOGON AT 00:48:07 GMT SUNDAY 11/26/23
DEV 390 DOES NOT EXIST
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 08:58 PM, Daniel L. Srebnick wrote:
Are there suggested performance tuning steps that I ought to take?? I'm already running with VIRTUAL=REAL.
I am afraid I can't help you here. I have the same configuration as you and the execution times are slower but reasonable, yet this for the little use I have. :-(? I rarely run TK5 under VM/370. Cheers, Rene FERLAND, Montreal
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
Rene:
Thank you.? This did for work me.
MVS is extremely slow.? An assembler complie, link and go job that takes 3 seconds under native MVS takes 28 seconds under MVS as a VM guest.
Are there suggested performance tuning steps that I ought to take?? I'm already running with VIRTUAL=REAL.
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 03:23 PM, Daniel L. Srebnick wrote:
Is there a workaround or a process to make this happen?
Here's my workaround. Use
?
09A0 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5res.390
09A1 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5cat.391
09A2 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5dlb.392
?
in the Hercules configuration file, and change the DEDICATE of MVS accordingly:
?
DEDICATE 390 9A0? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
DEDICATE 391 9A1? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
DEDICATE 392 9A2
?
Then again, this is just a workaround. I don't know why CP seems to "recognized" the presence of devices on the cuu 190's and 290's but not on? 390's.
?
Cheers,
?
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
Hi Bob:
From my hercules.conf:
#
# TK5 DASD
#
0390 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5res.390
0391 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5cat.391
0392 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5dlb.392
0380 3380 mvs/dasd/int001.380
0190 3390 mvs/dasd/tso001.190
0191 3390 mvs/dasd/tso002.191
0192 3390 mvs/dasd/tso003.192
0248 3350 mvs/dasd/page00.248
0249 3350 mvs/dasd/spool0.249
0290 3390 mvs/dasd/work01.290
0291 3390 mvs/dasd/work02.291
0292 3390 mvs/dasd/work03.292
0293 3390 mvs/dasd/work04.293
0298 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5001.298
0299 3390 mvs/dasd/tk5002.299
0340 3350 mvs/dasd/cbt000.340
0341 3350 mvs/dasd/cbt001.341
0342 3350 mvs/dasd/cbt002.342
From the Hercules startup, here's confirmation that Hercules sees the 3390s:
HHC00414I 0:0390 CCKD file mvs/dasd/tk5res.390: model 3390 cyls 1114 heads 15 tracks 16710 trklen 56832
HHC00414I 0:0391 CCKD file mvs/dasd/tk5cat.391: model 3390 cyls 1114 heads 15 tracks 16710 trklen 56832
HHC00414I 0:0392 CCKD file mvs/dasd/tk5dlb.392: model 3390 cyls 1114 heads 15 tracks 16710 trklen 56832
From my USER DIRECT file:
USER MVS MVS 8M 16M G?????????? ?
?OPTION ECMODE VIRT=REAL STFIRST
?IPL 390??????????????????????? ?
?CONSOLE 009 3215?????????????? ?
?SPOOL 00C 2540 READER *??????? ?
?SPOOL 00D 2540 PUNCH A???????? ?
?SPOOL 00E 1403 A?????????????? ?
?SPOOL 00F 1403 A?????????????? ?
?SPOOL 30E 1403 A?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 390 390?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 391 391?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 392 392?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 380 380?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 190 190?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 191 191?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 192 192?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 248 248?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 249 249?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 290 290?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 291 291?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 292 292?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 293 293?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 298 298?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 299 299?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 340 340?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 341 341?????????????? ?
?DEDICATE 342 342?????????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C0 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C1 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C2 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C3 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C4 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C5 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C6 3270???????????? ?
? SPECIAL? 0C7 3270?????????????
When I logon to MVS:
LOGON MVS
ENTER PASSWORD:
?
STORAGE IS VIRTUAL=REAL
DMKLOG090E DEV 390 NOT DEFINED; DEV 390 NOT AVAILABLE
DMKLOG090E DEV 391 NOT DEFINED; DEV 391 NOT AVAILABLE
DMKLOG090E DEV 392 NOT DEFINED; DEV 392 NOT AVAILABLE
LOGON AT 00:48:07 GMT SUNDAY 11/26/23
DEV 390 DOES NOT EXIST
|
Re: MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
Hi Daniel,
The VMCE release has an MVS directory entry definition in place for the latest version of a TK5 system. It uses DASD defined as "unsupported by VM" for the 3390 MVS disks. If you have modified any MVS disk addresses, we have to make adjustments.? Show us the VM Hercules config file, the MVS disk addresses, and the MVS directory entry in the USER DIRECT file if you need more assistance.
Bob Bolch
Hello:
I'd like to be able to IPL my MVS TK5 under VM/370 (running Community Edition 1.2).? The main challenge is that the IPL pack is a 3390.
They're not beeing seen (devices 390, 391 and 392) by my MVS VM despite the DIRECT mappings in the directory.
Is there a workaround or a process to make this happen?
Many thanks in advance.
|
MVS under VM/370 and 3390 DASD
Hello:
I'd like to be able to IPL my MVS TK5 under VM/370 (running Community Edition 1.2).? The main challenge is that the IPL pack is a 3390.
They're not beeing seen (devices 390, 391 and 392) by my MVS VM despite the DIRECT mappings in the directory.
Is there a workaround or a process to make this happen?
Many thanks in advance.
|
Re: Managing Host ID on VM370CE
On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 11:29 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
I think you have missed one thing. The whole point of the CPUID? in the SYSTEM NETID is that you can have the same VM IPLd on multiple different hardware systems.
The IDENTIFY command then matches the CPU serial number to that of the processor and reports i
Dave
Are there limitations on the SYSTEM or NET ID? Like Alphanumeric only? Or are some special characters allowed? I realize I might be a special character that's not allowed ;-) ?... Mark S.
|
Make sure you are running a recent X3270 (on whatever platform).? The latest dev version is v4.4.pre1, but you only need 4.3.
That version includes the ability to make your font larger or smaller (like a browser), per https://github.com/pmattes/x3270/issues/60.
|
Mark, Very odd. I seem to get re-directed from wx3270 to Wx3270¡ ¡ I hope it works ? Dave ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark A. Stevens via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2023 5:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Problems with W3270? On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 10:50 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
Dave,
There doesn't seem to be anything there. If I use 'wx3270' then I get text, but no pictures.
In any case I've downloaded the files and will try to test them ASAP.
?... Mark S.
|
On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 10:50 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
https://x3270.miraheze.org/wiki/Wx3270
Dave, There doesn't seem to be anything there. If I use 'wx3270' then I get text, but no pictures. In any case I've downloaded the files and will try to test them ASAP. ?... Mark S.
|
On Sun, Nov 19, 2023 at 08:54 PM, Bertram Moshier wrote:
What is session wizard?
The executable is called wc3270wiz.exe and can be found in the directory you unpacked/installed the other *3270 programs into. I use it and like it, so a shortcut sits on my desktop. It creates configuration files for your *3270 terminal sessions and can put shortcuts to those on your desktop. Do not try to edit the configuration files manually, as the program encodes everything into a hex table at the end of the file. Any other questions? Ask! ?... Mark S.
|
If you want to change the font, you have to change X resources definition (run xfontsel to see set of fonts, but without TrueType). If you want change size in rows/columns, use oversize parameter.?
Session wizard in for wc3270 (on windows).?
Piotr
Hello,
What is session wizard?
Thank you
On Sun, Nov 19, 2023, 20:11 Mark A. Stevens via <marXtevens= [email protected]> wrote: On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 02:34 AM, Bertram Moshier wrote:
I found resizing the window fails, as well as trrying to find a method to size the font.
?
How do I obtainn a larger window (e.g. size of a real 327X devixe)?? I have large monitors (2560x1600, 3850x2160, and 5120x1440).
So you want a larger font, which creates a bigger window, or a bigger window that then uses a larger font?
To get a bigger font, use the Session Wizard to edit your terminal session profile, option #25. Font Size. That will cause you to have a bigger window.
To get a bigger window, drag a corner to the new size, and the application should use a font size appropriate for that new window, though it won't fit precisely.
Does that help?
?... Mark S.
|
Ren¨¦ Ferland
Mark A. Stevens