Not really. Supervisor state is virtualized for the CMS user. When an instruction requiring supervisor state is executed in a CMS machine, a privop occurs and CP is given control to simulate the privileged instruction.? Bob
When you run under VM, you are in a virtual machine and everything is virtualized. No one on this forum needs a lesson on that. Applications running under CMS? are given control in supervisor?state by default. If the problem state bit in the PSW is off, you are in supervisor state. There is no virtualized?supervisor state in any architecture.? Best regards,??
Aaron Finerman wrote:
> To the best my knowledge, CMS always runs in supervisor state.
> But it does not run with key zero.
Then your knowledge needs updating. ;-)
CMS *thinks* it is running in supervisor state, but it actually doesn't. It simply runs in *virtualized* supervisor state. It *actually* in reality runs in problem state. All VM guests do. Only CP itself runs in real supervisor state, and then only when it actually needs to of course.
But I'm guessing you probably already knew that? Yes?
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
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When you run under VM, you are in a virtual machine and everything is virtualized. No one on this forum needs a lesson on that. Applications running under CMS? are given control in supervisor?state by default. If the problem state bit in the PSW is off, you are in supervisor state. There is no virtualized?supervisor state in any architecture.? Best regards,??
Aaron Finerman wrote:
> To the best my knowledge, CMS always runs in supervisor state.
> But it does not run with key zero.
Then your knowledge needs updating. ;-)
CMS *thinks* it is running in supervisor state, but it actually doesn't. It simply runs in *virtualized* supervisor state. It *actually* in reality runs in problem state. All VM guests do. Only CP itself runs in real supervisor state, and then only when it actually needs to of course.
But I'm guessing you probably already knew that? Yes?
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
|
Aaron Finerman wrote: To the best my knowledge, CMS always runs in supervisor state.
But it does not run with key zero. Then your knowledge needs updating. ;-) CMS *thinks* it is running in supervisor state, but it actually doesn't. It simply runs in *virtualized* supervisor state. It *actually* in reality runs in problem state. All VM guests do. Only CP itself runs in real supervisor state, and then only when it actually needs to of course. But I'm guessing you probably already knew that? Yes? -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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I just asked because no documentation I could find says that " diagnose 8 instructions executed in supervisor state" can be sent to Hercules.? Bob
Bob Bolch wrote:
> CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to
> pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those
> start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could
> cause some delightful explosions!!
Indeed! -- *IF* -- CMS's or other virtual machines' DIAG 8 instructions would end up being passed to Hercules for processing, but why would that happen? The Diagnose instruction is a privileged control instruction that CP itself would always intercept and handle itself on behalf of its virtual machine guest.
The only way a DIAG 8 would make it to Hercules would be if CP itself issued it.
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
|
"CMS executes in virtual supervisor state; so do applications you run under CMS. At the same time, CP is running in real problem state. This means that your virtual machine and the programs you run under CMS, can issue input/output and other privileged instructions. CP intercepts these instructions and simulates the functions of them for your virtual machine."
Joe
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 1:38 PM Aaron Finerman < arfinerman@...> wrote: To the best my knowledge, CMS always runs in supervisor?state. But it does not run with key zero.? Best regards,
Joe & Bob DIAG is a privileged instruction. CMS machines always run in problem state, so when they try and execute a Diagnose instruction they don¡¯t¡ Dave ? ? "This parameter specifies whether a command issued through Diagnose 8 will be executed by Hercules as a Hercules commands or not." ? On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Bob Bolch <Bob@...> wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! ? "I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?" DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]
When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO ? Yes, its possible. Is it advisable? Joe ? Hello, I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes? I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes. I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation Thank you for your time.?
|
To the best my knowledge, CMS always runs in supervisor?state. But it does not run with key zero.? Best regards,
Joe & Bob DIAG is a privileged instruction. CMS machines always run in problem state, so when they try and execute a Diagnose instruction they don¡¯t¡ Dave ? ? "This parameter specifies whether a command issued through Diagnose 8 will be executed by Hercules as a Hercules commands or not." ? On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Bob Bolch <Bob@...> wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! ? "I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?" DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]
When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO ? Yes, its possible. Is it advisable? Joe ? Hello, I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes? I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes. I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation Thank you for your time.?
|
Bob Bolch wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to
pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those
start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could
cause some delightful explosions!! Indeed! -- *IF* -- CMS's or other virtual machines' DIAG 8 instructions would end up being passed to Hercules for processing, but why would that happen? The Diagnose instruction is a privileged control instruction that CP itself would always intercept and handle itself on behalf of its virtual machine guest. The only way a DIAG 8 would make it to Hercules would be if CP itself issued it. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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Bertram Moshier wrote: I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS
program to have Hercules change tapes? Yes. It can be done either indirectly if there's no Hercules DIAG 8 support in CP or directly if there is. If CP has support to talk to Hercules via DIAG 8 (and I believe Dave Wade mentions later in this thread that it does (via HCP)), then yes, it would be possible for your program to directly issue the necessary Hercules commands to mount whatever tape media you might want on whatever tape drive you want it to be mounted on. I'm working on the VM Backup idea. My thought is
it would be great to automate the backup procedure
by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes.
I know this would not be possible with real iron,
but might be with emulation Hercules has two separate builtin features that has existed for a long while now to make automatically mounting tapes a bit easier. The first (which I would venture a guess is probably not what you want but nonetheless feel duty bound to mention anyway) is ACF (Automatic Cartridge Feeder) support: * Basically, you create an "ACF" file containing your list of tape files that you want Hercules to automatically "load" (devinit) next for you whenever the currently mounted tape is unloaded. E.g.: tapes\221105.het tapes\221106.het tapes\221107.het ...etc... And then in your configuration file, you would use: 0581 3490 @tapes\my581acf.txt where "my581acf.txt" is of course the name of that ACF file containing your list of tapes. The second feature (which MIGHT (but I don't know!) prove to be more useful to you) is the Hercules Automatic Operator (i.e. "HAO"): * With this feature you can create a simple HAO rule (or set of rules) to automatically reply to whatever tape mount might happen to be issued no matter what drive and no matter which tape. When your tape drive is defined as a tape drive device with a display (which I believe all 3480, 3490 and 3590 devices had/have) and your operating system (e.g. CP?) does I/O to a tape drive's "display" to display a message for the tape operator (which Hercules currently emulates by displaying a message to the Hercules panel (HMC)), and you have a proper HAO rule (or rules) defined, then HAO will, upon seeing that Hercules message being issued, automatically respond to it with the proper "devinit" command to mount the requested tape media onto the specified drive. Automatically! This particular feature is probably the better of the two for automating tape mounts in your case. Refer to the mentioned README for more information and a simple example rule. Of course, if you're wanting to handle everything yourself in your program, then you can simply pass on both features and issue the Hercules "devinit" command yourself to mount whatever tape media you want onto whatever drive you want it mounted on. Hope that helps! -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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From: hercules-390@... [mailto:hercules-390@...] OnBehalf Of Dave WadeSent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 22:16?To: hercules-390@...Subject: RE: [hercules-390] Automation form the Operating system to theHercules Console (VM)Hercules supports the use of DIAGNOSE 8 (DIAG8) to issue commands toHercules and the underlying OS. The DIAG8CMD and SHCMDOPT entries in theconfig file need to be set to enable this.On VM we have an HCP command which allows commands to be passed back toHercules, and depending on which options are set in the config you may ormay not be able to pass commands back to the underlying GUI.So on my VM MAINT user I can do :-hcp devinit 480 c:\hercules\tapes\ssp.awsdevinit 480 c:\hercules\tapes\ssp.awsHHCTA998I Device 0480: c:\hercules\tapes\ssp.aws is a AWS Format tape fileHHCPN098I Device 0:0480 initializedReady; T=0.01/0.03 19:01:13att 480 * 181TAPE 480 ATTACH TO MAINT 181Ready; T=0.01/0.01 19:01:23tape scanSCANNING....SSP FORTRAN A1SSP1 FORTRAN A1SSP2 FORTRAN A1SSP18 FORTRAN A1SSP3 FORTRAN A1.....and alsohcp sh ipconfig?sh ipconfig?Windows IP Configuration?Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection:?Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :?IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.5?Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0?Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.64?Ready; T=0.01/1.61 19:10:42?As the format of the DIAG8 is the same used in VM to pass commands fromwithin a VM back to CP then usually the OS mods that support this when MVSet al is run in VM will work in Hercules to pass commands back to Herc......Dave Wade G4UGMIllegitimi Non Carborundum
Hi,
I thought only? CP ran in supervisor state and everything else runs in problem state on the physical system.? Thus Diag 8 in a virtual system can't get to Herculesn but only to CP. While CP diag 8 would go to Hercules.
Bert.
Yep ... and your question was: :)
You can easily write a callable interface for your backup program to switch to supervisor key and issue DIAG 8. With the hercules CP mod and the config option I showed... You can issue a hercules command to change a tape...
Joe
Hello Joe,
Yes; but by CP (DMK) not aCMS program.? I say this because diag 8 from a virtual system is for issuing CP command.? ?Inside DMK/CP a diag 8 would go to Hercules.
Bert
" This parameter specifies whether a command issued through Diagnose 8 will be executed by Hercules as a Hercules commands or not."
Joe
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Bob Bolch < Bob@...> wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! Bo Bolch
"I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?"
DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO
Yes, its possible. Is it advisable?
Joe Hello,
I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?
I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes.
I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation
Thank you for your time.?
|
Hi,
I thought only? CP ran in supervisor state and everything else runs in problem state on the physical system.? Thus Diag 8 in a virtual system can't get to Herculesn but only to CP. While CP diag 8 would go to Hercules.
Bert.
Yep ... and your question was: :)
You can easily write a callable interface for your backup program to switch to supervisor key and issue DIAG 8. With the hercules CP mod and the config option I showed... You can issue a hercules command to change a tape...
Joe
Hello Joe,
Yes; but by CP (DMK) not aCMS program.? I say this because diag 8 from a virtual system is for issuing CP command.? ?Inside DMK/CP a diag 8 would go to Hercules.
Bert
" This parameter specifies whether a command issued through Diagnose 8 will be executed by Hercules as a Hercules commands or not."
Joe
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Bob Bolch < Bob@...> wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! Bo Bolch
"I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?"
DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO
Yes, its possible. Is it advisable?
Joe Hello,
I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?
I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes.
I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation
Thank you for your time.?
|
Dave,
How does this mod 10 work?? I'm assuming you don't mean Diagnose 10.? Isn't diagnose x'0010' to release pages?
Bert.
Gentles, ? That is why we have Hercules cp mod 10, the HCP command which allows a user ask CP to issue a DIAG 8 on the hardware it thinks it is running on. For many on here this will be Hercules, but if you are running VM under VM it¡¯s the next hypervisor up. It needs one of the non-G CP classes so its protected from some mi-use ? Dave ? ? Hello Joe, I can see how VM, itself, can talk to Hercule via Diag 8, but how would a guest OS or CMS program?? Wouldn't a Diag 8 in a virtual machine go to VM as a CP command instead of to Hercules.? You're correct it might be a security risk, but maybe it should be an option and up to the system's owner. ? "I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?" DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]
When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO ? Yes, its possible. Is it advisable? Joe ? Hello, I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes? I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes. I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation Thank you for your time.?
|
Yep ... and your question was: :)
You can easily write a callable interface for your backup program to switch to supervisor key and issue DIAG 8. With the hercules CP mod and the config option I showed... You can issue a hercules command to change a tape...
Joe
Hello Joe,
Yes; but by CP (DMK) not aCMS program.? I say this because diag 8 from a virtual system is for issuing CP command.? ?Inside DMK/CP a diag 8 would go to Hercules.
Bert
" This parameter specifies whether a command issued through Diagnose 8 will be executed by Hercules as a Hercules commands or not."
Joe
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Bob Bolch < Bob@...> wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! Bo Bolch
"I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?"
DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO
Yes, its possible. Is it advisable?
Joe Hello,
I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?
I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes.
I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation
Thank you for your time.?
|
Hello Joe,
Yes; but by CP (DMK) not aCMS program.? I say this because diag 8 from a virtual system is for issuing CP command.? ?Inside DMK/CP a diag 8 would go to Hercules.
Bert
" This parameter specifies whether a command issued through Diagnose 8 will be executed by Hercules as a Hercules commands or not."
Joe
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Bob Bolch < Bob@...> wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! Bo Bolch
"I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?"
DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO
Yes, its possible. Is it advisable?
Joe Hello,
I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?
I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes.
I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation
Thank you for your time.?
|
Joe & Bob DIAG is a privileged instruction. CMS machines always run in problem state, so when they try and execute a Diagnose instruction they don¡¯t¡ Dave ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe Monk
Sent: 19 November 2022 17:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Can a VM machine ...? "This parameter specifies whether a command issued through Diagnose 8 will be executed by Hercules as a Hercules commands or not." ? On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Bob Bolch <Bob@...> wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! ? "I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?" DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]
When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO ? Yes, its possible. Is it advisable? Joe ? Hello, I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes? I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes. I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation Thank you for your time.?
|
Bob,
Yes, it was my understanding a virtual machine can't talk to Hercules directly.
What might be possible would be to add a new Diagnose instruction (say X'FFC' so as to not interfere with z/VM.? This new code would allow a virtual machine to tell VM to send a specific command from the virtual machine to Hercules.
The other idea would be to add a new Diagnose to allow just the changing of virtual tape.
The third option would be to all to Hercules something like the STK4400.? Unless this is already there for select IBM drives and tapes.
If the third already exists, where can I find information on that feature?
Thank you.
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 11:31 Bob Bolch < Bob@...> wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! Bo Bolch
"I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?"
DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO
Yes, its possible. Is it advisable?
Joe Hello,
I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?
I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes.
I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation
Thank you for your time.?
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Gentles, ? That is why we have Hercules cp mod 10, the HCP command which allows a user ask CP to issue a DIAG 8 on the hardware it thinks it is running on. For many on here this will be Hercules, but if you are running VM under VM it¡¯s the next hypervisor up. It needs one of the non-G CP classes so its protected from some mi-use ? Dave ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bertram Moshier
Sent: 19 November 2022 17:31
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Can a VM machine ...? Hello Joe, I can see how VM, itself, can talk to Hercule via Diag 8, but how would a guest OS or CMS program?? Wouldn't a Diag 8 in a virtual machine go to VM as a CP command instead of to Hercules.? You're correct it might be a security risk, but maybe it should be an option and up to the system's owner. ? "I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?" DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]
When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO ? Yes, its possible. Is it advisable? Joe ? Hello, I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes? I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes. I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation Thank you for your time.?
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" This parameter specifies whether a command issued through Diagnose 8 will be executed by Hercules as a Hercules commands or not."
Joe
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Bob Bolch < Bob@...> wrote: CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! Bo Bolch
"I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?"
DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO
Yes, its possible. Is it advisable?
Joe Hello,
I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?
I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes.
I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation
Thank you for your time.?
|
Dave,
No, I'm talking about something like the STK4400.? I was the lead programmer at Cray and also the VM programmer for making a STK4400 talk to both the Cray and IBM system.? In the end, we supported both MVS and VM.
Thank you.
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 11:28 Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: On 11/19/22 12:06, Bertram Moshier wrote:
> I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with
> emulation
? ?Many 3480/3490/etc drives ("square tapes" to you IBMers ;)) have
media changers on them.? We have several of those at LSSM.? I'm pretty
sure they can change media under host control.
? ?Unless you're talking about something different..
? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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CMS (and other virtual machines) use Diagnose 8 to pass CP commands to CP for execution. Would those start going to Hercules instead? If so, that could cause some delightful explosions!! Bo Bolch
"I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?"
DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO
Yes, its possible. Is it advisable?
Joe Hello,
I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?
I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes.
I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation
Thank you for your time.?
|
Hello Joe,
I can see how VM, itself, can talk to Hercule via Diag 8, but how would a guest OS or CMS program?? Wouldn't a Diag 8 in a virtual machine go to VM as a CP command instead of to Hercules.?
You're correct it might be a security risk, but maybe it should be an option and up to the system's owner.
Thank you.
"I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?"
DIAG8CMD ??DISABLE?| ENABLE ? [ECHO |?NOECHO]When?ENABLE?is specified the Hercules Diagnose 8 instruction command interface is enabled, allowing the guest to directly issue Hercules commands via the Diagnose 8 instruction. When set to?DISABLE?all Diagnose 8 instructions cause a Specification Exception program interrupt to occur instead. An optional second argument can be given to request whether an audit trail of such commands should be created or not. When?ECHO?is specified, a message is issued when the command is about to be issued, when the command is redisplayed (as is normally done when entered from the command line), as well as a final message indicating the command has finished executing. When?NOECHO?is specified no such audit trail messages are displayed and the command instead completes silently (except for whatever messages the command itself may issue). Security Alert:??Enabling this feature has security consequences. When this feature is enabled it is possible for guest operating systems running under Hercules to issue commands directly to the host operating system by means of the?sh?(host shell command) and?exec?(execute Rexx script) commands. This ability may be disabled via the??statement's?NODIAG8?option. The value of?ECHO?or?NOECHO?has no effect on whether or not command output will be placed into the Diagnose 8 instruction's response buffer if the instruction requested one, nor does it cause the resulting audit trail messages from being placed into the response buffer either. The?ECHO?option only impacts what is displayed on the hardware console (and what appears in the hardcopy logfile) but does not otherwise impact what is placed into the instruction's response buffer. The default is?DISABLE NOECHO
Yes, its possible. Is it advisable?
Joe Hello,
I'm wondering if it is possible for a VM machine / CMS program to have Hercules change tapes?
I'm working on the VM Backup idea.? My thought is it would be great to automate the backup procedure by having the program have Hercules swap the tapes.
I know this would not be possible with real iron, but might be with emulation
Thank you for your time.?
|
