Re: How to enter the cent sign using x3270 on a raspberry pi
For the 2741 there were (at least) two typeball mappings, one called
'BCD' and the other 'Correspondence', and the keyboard layouts were
different. 'Correspondence' was what the IBM typewriters used, and
you could use regular typewriter typeballs on a 'Correspondence'
2741, BCD was the 'computer' layout. We had both of these, including
APL typeballs for both versions. I still have a small box of random
typeballs around somewhere. IIRC, the 'console' Selectrics were all
BCD mapping, but I'm not certain.
As to modified Selectrics with interfaces added, I had an ITEL/Dura
'wide tabletop' unit, and one surplussed from a financial company
that was also tabletop, but high rather than wide. I used both as
printers with my CP/M system at home, the ITEL unit being the
flakier of the two...
134.5 bps was slow, but faster than the ~45 bps Model 56 Teletype
that it replaced! Much better character sets too! :-)
- Richard, VE7CVS
On 12/23/21 11:55 AM, Mark L. Gaubatz
via groups.io wrote:
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Sorry, but
if you‘re talking about true classics, it was normally an
underscore above the 6. The cent sign was usually/frequently
with the at (“@”) sign next to the margin release (“MAR
REL”) key. Then there were the other keyboards with no cents
whatsoever. At least the 029/129 keypunch had some cents
with the cent sign located above the R – a great improvement
over having multipunch the column with the 026. Or the
non-cents with the Telex ASR 33 as well as with most modern
non-programmable keyboards. It would be nice if the
manufacturers would at least have some cents-ability and
provide offerings with some cents once again. ?
?
With the
Selectric, Remington SR101, IBM 2741, and other similar
keyboard/typewriters, it depended on the typeball that was
in use – NOT the keyboard for anything other than input,
unless one replaced the key caps and selected the proper
translation table. And for output with those that were used
for I/O capabilities and the typeball had been replaced with
an alternative typeball and a wrong translation table as
well? How good are your basic cryptography skills? And when
this was done with the 1052 console???
?
The 1130
and 2741s, when equipped with the APL typeball and keyboard,
the keyboard also had no cents.
?
Mark
|
Merry Christmas and Thanks
Folks, ? Can I just say Merry Christmas and thanks to everyone for being on the list, especially those who have contributed and run the project. I must also include those who have grumped and moaned as they have stirred me from “Covid Lock Down Hiberntion” and got me looking again at VM and Hercules. ? Looking forward to the new year. ? Dave
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>> There are also still a lot of commands, both EXECs and MODULES that need help files!
>> So its still very much work in progress!
?
Aha! Here's where I can contribute! No need to be a system programmer or a mainframer to prepare an help file. :-)
?
So let me commit myself to create the help files of CMS/DOS commands:
?
ASSGN, DLBL, DOSLIB, DOSLKED, DSERV, ESERV, FETCH, LISTDS, LISTIO, OPTION, PSERV, RSERV, SSERV
?
essentially using the printed documentation. Preparing roughly one help file a day, that should lead me around January 10. I will put the files on a tape when I am done.
?
Cheers,
?
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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I will open an issue for MENU FSHELP to be updated. Bob
It is not enough to update HELP EXEC, one also needs to update the menu of FSHELP, in particular for the new help files that Dave wrote. The menu is stored in MENU FSHELP U2.
If I am right, the current one contains typos and is incomplete (the SFBROWSE command Bob agreed to put on the system is absent from the list).
Cheers,
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
|
Rene, ? The FSHELP menus need updating regardless. I am also not sure I have the right extensions on some of the new files. ? There are also still a lot of commands, both EXECs and MODULES that need help files! ? So its still very much work in progress! ? Dave ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of René Ferland
Sent: 26 December 2021 21:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] HELP vsus FSHELP? It is not enough to update HELP EXEC, one also needs to update the menu of FSHELP, in particular for the new help files that Dave wrote. The menu is stored in MENU FSHELP U2.
If I am right, the current one contains typos and is incomplete (the SFBROWSE command Bob agreed to put on the system is absent from the list).
Cheers,
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
|
It is not enough to update HELP EXEC, one also needs to update the menu of FSHELP, in particular for the new help files that Dave wrote. The menu is stored in MENU FSHELP U2.
If I am right, the current one contains typos and is incomplete (the SFBROWSE command Bob agreed to put on the system is absent from the list).
Cheers,
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
|
Hey Dave,
I was not aware of that interface. Nice!
Bob
Bob, Ooops I didn’t explain that very well. VM/CE comes with an FSHELP package from MECAFF so no extra code needed…. … I think think the following patch to HELP EXEC might work… ? &CONTROL OFF NOMSG???????????????????? STATE FSQERY MODULE *????????????????? &IF &RETCODE NE 0 &GOTO -LM??????????? ??????????????????????????????????????? FSQRY STATE??????????????????????????? &IF &RETCODE NE 0 &GOTO -LM??????????? FSHELP &1 &2 &3 &4 &5 &6 &7 &8???????? &EXIT????????????????????????????????? ? -LM?? ? Dave ? ? ? ? Hi Dave, VM/SP has the XEDIT based screen manager to display full screen help.? I am not aware if a facility like that exactly, but I did fixup an old SAS full screen interface from VM/ 370 that could be used for this. I don't recall the state of the doc (if there is any), but the code is in the files area under boogie-tool. It needs a BREXX fix, which is part of the next VM370CE release. Please look over that set of files, and if you think this could be a suitable interface, we could work up the programmer documentation and try to build a HELP full screen system.? ? Gentles, ? I am starting to get cross. Not with any of you of course, but with the HELP command. When using SP5 on the Living Computer Museum machine, HELP automatically works in Fullscreen mode unless “(NOSCREEN” is specified. Should ours work in the same way? Dave G4UGM
|
Bob, Ooops I didn’t explain that very well. VM/CE comes with an FSHELP package from MECAFF so no extra code needed…. … I think think the following patch to HELP EXEC might work… ? &CONTROL OFF NOMSG???????????????????? STATE FSQERY MODULE *????????????????? &IF &RETCODE NE 0 &GOTO -LM??????????? ??????????????????????????????????????? FSQRY STATE??????????????????????????? &IF &RETCODE NE 0 &GOTO -LM??????????? FSHELP &1 &2 &3 &4 &5 &6 &7 &8???????? &EXIT????????????????????????????????? ? -LM?? ? Dave ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Bolch
Sent: 26 December 2021 19:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] HELP vsus FSHELP? Hi Dave, VM/SP has the XEDIT based screen manager to display full screen help.? I am not aware if a facility like that exactly, but I did fixup an old SAS full screen interface from VM/ 370 that could be used for this. I don't recall the state of the doc (if there is any), but the code is in the files area under boogie-tool. It needs a BREXX fix, which is part of the next VM370CE release. Please look over that set of files, and if you think this could be a suitable interface, we could work up the programmer documentation and try to build a HELP full screen system.? ? Gentles, ? I am starting to get cross. Not with any of you of course, but with the HELP command. When using SP5 on the Living Computer Museum machine, HELP automatically works in Fullscreen mode unless “(NOSCREEN” is specified. Should ours work in the same way? Dave G4UGM
|
Hi Dave,
VM/SP has the XEDIT based screen manager to display full screen help.?
I am not aware if a facility like that exactly, but I did fixup an old SAS full screen interface from VM/ 370 that could be used for this. I don't recall the state of the doc (if there is any), but the code is in the files area under boogie-tool. It needs a BREXX fix, which is part of the next VM370CE release. Please look over that set of files, and if you think this could be a suitable interface, we could work up the programmer documentation and try to build a HELP full screen system.?
Bob
Gentles, ? I am starting to get cross. Not with any of you of course, but with the HELP command. When using SP5 on the Living Computer Museum machine, HELP automatically works in Fullscreen mode unless “(NOSCREEN” is specified. Should ours work in the same way? Dave G4UGM
|
Gentles, ? I am starting to get cross. Not with any of you of course, but with the HELP command. When using SP5 on the Living Computer Museum machine, HELP automatically works in Fullscreen mode unless “(NOSCREEN” is specified. Should ours work in the same way? Dave G4UGM
|
Re: How to enter the cent sign using x3270 on a raspberry pi
On 12/23/21 10:05 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: But Dave? What prompted one Yeti wearing a Dodgers hat read this
entire thread? He's trying to find the cent sign too! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: How to enter the cent sign using x3270 on a raspberry pi
Sorry for the top post – Outlook strikes again….. ? It may (or may not) be interesting to note that in the “original?” EBCDIC that there were often no “cent” signs on non-us keyboards. ? Originally EBCDIC had two currency symbols, the primary currency symbol and the secondary currency symbol. On US systems these usually printed as ?$ and “cent” respectively. On UK systems these were “?” and “$” which meant that preparing quotations that might be printed in the USA could be “interesting” … In fact I think there was a test document that had many symbols with their descriptions that you could print so you could check …. ? Dave G4UGM ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Drew Derbyshire
Sent: 24 December 2021 02:42
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] How to enter the cent sign using x3270 on a raspberry pi? On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 10:04 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 12/21/21 1:01 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote: I just checked the old IBM Selectric Keryboards; they put cent sign (?)
over the six, where modern keyboards usually have a caret.? So if you're
REALLY into the classics ...
(I'll do THAT right after I get a real 2741 or other hardcopy terminal
pounding in my ear.)
We just got an IBM model 73 typewriter at the museum; the original
owner (no longer around) built an interface board for it for a Heathkit
H-8. We've not dug into it yet, but it's sure to be interesting.
Model 73? When I do ever visit, I'll have my full kit (large computer bag), which conveniently has ear plugs.? :-)
|
Re: How to enter the cent sign using x3270 on a raspberry pi
Hello!
Oh so that's why six out of the 78 Yet have been staring at.it. The
others are elsewhere.
Yes that was common. People would snag those typewriters and create
interface boards for them. I first saw one sitting on top of a
Selectric, with the computer being a typical S-100 bus design. It
worked after a fashion. I also worked with a 2741 once back in my long
ago youth. And again many years ago at the IBM research facility in
Yorktown Heights. (Friend's father was an IBM Research Fellow.)
I'd say all of you are certainly heading in the right direction there.
But Dave? What prompted one Yeti wearing a Dodgers hat read this
entire thread?
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
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On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 1:04 AM Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:
On 12/21/21 1:01 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:
I just checked the old IBM Selectric Keryboards; they put cent sign (?)
over the six, where modern keyboards usually have a caret. So if you're
REALLY into the classics ...
(I'll do THAT right after I get a real 2741 or other hardcopy terminal
pounding in my ear.) We just got an IBM model 73 typewriter at the museum; the original
owner (no longer around) built an interface board for it for a Heathkit
H-8. We've not dug into it yet, but it's sure to be interesting.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: How to enter the cent sign using x3270 on a raspberry pi
On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 10:04 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 12/21/21 1:01 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:
I just checked the old IBM Selectric Keryboards; they put cent sign (?)
over the six, where modern keyboards usually have a caret.? So if you're
REALLY into the classics ...
(I'll do THAT right after I get a real 2741 or other hardcopy terminal
pounding in my ear.)
We just got an IBM model 73 typewriter at the museum; the original
owner (no longer around) built an interface board for it for a Heathkit
H-8. We've not dug into it yet, but it's sure to be interesting.
Model 73?
When I do ever visit, I'll have my full kit (large computer bag), which conveniently has ear plugs.? :-)
|
Re: How to enter the cent sign using x3270 on a raspberry pi
Sorry, but if you‘re talking about true classics, it was normally an underscore above the 6. The cent sign was usually/frequently with the at (“@”) sign next to the margin release (“MAR REL”) key. Then there were the other keyboards with no cents whatsoever. At least the 029/129 keypunch had some cents with the cent sign located above the R – a great improvement over having multipunch the column with the 026. Or the non-cents with the Telex ASR 33 as well as with most modern non-programmable keyboards. It would be nice if the manufacturers would at least have some cents-ability and provide offerings with some cents once again. ? ? With the Selectric, Remington SR101, IBM 2741, and other similar keyboard/typewriters, it depended on the typeball that was in use – NOT the keyboard for anything other than input, unless one replaced the key caps and selected the proper translation table. And for output with those that were used for I/O capabilities and the typeball had been replaced with an alternative typeball and a wrong translation table as well? How good are your basic cryptography skills? And when this was done with the 1052 console??? ? The 1130 and 2741s, when equipped with the APL typeball and keyboard, the keyboard also had no cents. ? Mark
|
Folks, I should also have said thanks to those that proofread the first version. A few folks responded off-list and I owe them thanks Dave ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Bolch
Sent: 23 December 2021 14:36
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Updated Help Files? Thank you!! All these documentation enhancements will be included in the next VM/370 Community Edition release. ? Gentles, I have fixed some typos in the old files and added some new ones for EXECUTIL, FORTH and PASCAL, They are in the same place on the files section. Dave
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Thank you!!
All these documentation enhancements will be included in the next VM/370 Community Edition release. Bob
Gentles, I have fixed some typos in the old files and added some new ones for EXECUTIL, FORTH and PASCAL, They are in the same place on the files section. Dave
|
Gentles, I have fixed some typos in the old files and added some new ones for EXECUTIL, FORTH and PASCAL, They are in the same place on the groups.io files section. Dave
|
Re: IFOX00/ASSEMBLER Question
#VMCE
Mark, Did you get anywhere with fixing this, or create a work around? Dave ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark A. Stevens via groups.io
Sent: 18 December 2021 01:57
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] IFOX00/ASSEMBLER Question #VMCE? On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 07:06 AM, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: I only have a very old VM-370 distribution (from 2011 or so) and currently no plan
to install another one, because I am happy with what I have. Could you send me (only)
the MACLIB, if you want me to help you with it?
Bernd,
I will send you the MACLIB under separate cover. I will reiterate, the problem seems to be with the assembler, not the assembler programs in the MACLIB.
?... Mark S.
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Re: How to enter the cent sign using x3270 on a raspberry pi
On 12/21/21 1:01 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote: I just checked the old IBM Selectric Keryboards; they put cent sign (?) over the six, where modern keyboards usually have a caret.? So if you're REALLY into the classics ...
(I'll do THAT right after I get a real 2741 or other hardcopy terminal pounding in my ear.) We just got an IBM model 73 typewriter at the museum; the original owner (no longer around) built an interface board for it for a Heathkit H-8. We've not dug into it yet, but it's sure to be interesting. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
René Ferland
Dave McGuire