The following files and folders have been deleted from the Files area of the [email protected] group.
-
/MECAFF tools: fixes and features/EE181307.VMARC
By: Martin Scheffler <San-Lorenzo@...>
The following files and folders have been deleted from the Files area of the [email protected] group.
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/MECAFF tools: fixes and features/EE$RISKY.VMARC
By: Martin Scheffler <San-Lorenzo@...>
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File /GG22-9277-00 VM370 Maintenance Made Simple - May 1982.pdf uploaded
#file-notice
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: Mark Waterbury <mark.s.waterbury@...>
Description:
GG22-9277-00 VM370 Maintenance Made Simple - May 1982
A Washington Systems Center publication describing how to maintain VM/370 CP and CMS from source code with update decks.
(IBM WSC publications usually had an orange cover, but this copy lacks that cover.)
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
Anyone who is serious about creating CP and/or CMS user modifications should definitely read Melinda Varian's "What Mother Never Told You" and IBM's WSC "VM Maintenance Made Simple" -- both are available in the "Files" area of this group.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
Yes, I can assist with anyone needing access.? I personally do
nothing with the repo, but many others are happily working with
it.? Just let me know if any assistance is required.
Harold Grovesteen
On 8/28/24 09:45, Dave Wade wrote:
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Show quoted text
That¡¯s
Harold Grovesteen¡¯s¡
?
Dave
?
?
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 01:59 PM,
William Denton wrote:
So, how do we go about creating some
sort of guidance/process for enhancing and maintaining
future releases of VM370CE? I guess, first of all, is
there really any serious interest in continuing the
"Community Edition" idea? If so, then we probably could
use at least a loose sort of "product management"
strategy.
Does anyone have the same level of
access to
as Bob had?
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
I really don't know why but I have always thought of PF10 as being the RETRIEVE key... don't know where that came from
?
cheers,
William
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Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
It looks like I have reached a break-through. I have reworked the SUBCOM interface of EE and the macro facility seems to be much more stable. As a proof of concept, EE gives control to a special macro when a command is not recognized as an internal EE command.
?
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 06:02 PM, Mark A. Stevens wrote:
I for one would rather see/use the code than look at a screen shot. The difference between Looking at the candy behind the glass, rather than actually having some. :-)
It's not ready for presentation yet, the previous bleeding edge previews were bleeding too much - but it looks very promising.
?
I intend to delete the previous previews of EE in the 'files' section since I will not learn anything from bug reports of these obsolete versions.
?
Martin
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
In favor of - " is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea?¡±
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Show quoted text
On Aug 26, 2024, at 12:18?PM, Dave Wade via groups.io <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Hi Folks William, thanks for posting on here.. ? - I suggest that we build our updates using our own numbers on the user build disks. We can then sort out ¡°official¡± (I hate that word) numbers when we re-distribute.?
- That¡¯s the 594 for CP and the 593 for CMS. Bothy are accessed as ¡°E¡±. You can then name your mods LCLnnnDK or LCLnnnDM and whoever builds the release can give them ¡°official¡± names and numbers.
- In the past its whatever me or bob, or further back Andie or whoever liked.
? No thoughts on the rest. The original idea was for quick releases. That hasn¡¯t happened¡ ? Dave ? ? I recently posted on??asking these questions about how I should submit my VM updates for inclusion in a future CE "release": - Is there a master list of assigned update numbers? How do I figure out the "###" part of the update name"HRC###DK"????
- Is there a preferred way to package the files in an update? On my system, I keep all the files together in a .txt file in CMS READCARD format. How do the keepers of the CE releases prefer to receive proposed updates?
- What sort of consensus/approval/voting process do I need to go through to share my stuff?
Dave Wade responded that, since there really aren't any current processes, it might be a good idea to take the discussion to the wider group. So, how do we go about creating some sort of guidance/process for enhancing and maintaining future releases of VM370CE? I guess, first of all, is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea? If so, then we probably could use at least a loose sort of "product management" strategy.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
Hello,
There's a BREXX fix for the NUMERIC bug I found where CMS crashes hard (requires a reipl).? It would be great for it to be included, too.
Bert
Ross, Thanks for raising all these issues with VM/CE. How do you think we should proceed? Do you want to build a ¡°Beta¡±? Dave ? ? There is at least one fix in BREXX that I'd like to see make it into the next VM/CR release:? implements the SIGNAL ON FAILURE instruction, and corrects an error in SIGNAL ON ERROR that has prevented it from detecting positive non-zero return codes (i.e., 99+% of the error RCs out there).? There are also a few known (to me and Adrian Sutherland, at least) fixes that were shipped in VM/CE 1.2, but never merged into the BREXX source.? As I've said to Adrian, I'm willing to undertake that merge myself. Adrian - I added you to this thread directly, since I just mentioned you.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
Ross, Thanks for raising all these issues with VM/CE. How do you think we should proceed? Do you want to build a ¡°Beta¡±? Dave ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ross Patterson via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 9:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Adrian Sutherland <adrian@...>
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE #VMCE? There is at least one fix in BREXX that I'd like to see make it into the next VM/CR release:? implements the SIGNAL ON FAILURE instruction, and corrects an error in SIGNAL ON ERROR that has prevented it from detecting positive non-zero return codes (i.e., 99+% of the error RCs out there).? There are also a few known (to me and Adrian Sutherland, at least) fixes that were shipped in VM/CE 1.2, but never merged into the BREXX source.? As I've said to Adrian, I'm willing to undertake that merge myself. Adrian - I added you to this thread directly, since I just mentioned you.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
There is at least one fix in BREXX that I'd like to see make it into the next VM/CR release:? implements the SIGNAL ON FAILURE instruction, and corrects an error in SIGNAL ON ERROR that has prevented it from detecting positive non-zero return codes (i.e., 99+% of the error RCs out there).? There are also a few known (to me and Adrian Sutherland, at least) fixes that were shipped in VM/CE 1.2, but never merged into the BREXX source.? As I've said to Adrian, I'm willing to undertake that merge myself.
Adrian - I added you to this thread directly, since I just mentioned you.
Ross
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
I couldn't agree more about the SES thing. All of those attempts at automating the application of service just seem to make things more obscure and complicated. I forget the name of the EXEC that was supposed to be used to apply the stacked PUT tapes in the VM/SP days. Like many of the old hands, I never used those tools but just printed out the release document on the front of the tape, manually loaded the files I needed, and rebuild the parts of the system that needed it (always without touching the currently running systems).
I would put a challenge to anyone who wants to truly understand how a source-based system like VM is put together... Build up a 2 or 3 pack 3350 system starting with the VM/370 R6 3330 Starter Tape and the PLC 616 tape that are available.
As a further challenge, you could build the system the way they used to have to do it at the CIA... build the whole thing from source only.
cheers, William
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
That¡¯s Harold Grovesteen¡¯s¡ ? Dave ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark A. Stevens via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 3:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE #VMCE? On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 01:59 PM, William Denton wrote: So, how do we go about creating some sort of guidance/process for enhancing and maintaining future releases of VM370CE? I guess, first of all, is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea? If so, then we probably could use at least a loose sort of "product management" strategy.
Does anyone have the same level of access to as Bob had?
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 05:43 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
So, how do we go about creating some sort of guidance/process for enhancing and maintaining future releases of VM370CE? I guess, first of all, is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea? If so, then we probably could use at least a loose sort of "product management" strategy.
*** Sorry for the rash of postings. I'm catching up from watching my grandson 4 days per week, and a wife with Parkinson's Disease. ***
?
I am definitely interested in keeping it going. Like most of us, I can't make it a full time job, but I definitely want to help.
?
?... Mark S.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
Mark, I own that web site so no problems with getting it updated. What I should do is try and arrange for some sort of inheritance on that and on the groups.io group. Dave ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark A. Stevens via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 3:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE #VMCE? On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 07:36 PM, William Denton wrote: was wondering if always just shipping a ZIP archive of completely refreshed Hercules disks is the right VM-ish way to deal with releases... Granted, we always need that for new installs but what about people who already have running systems and want to install the next minor release? What about having something like VMCE PUT tapes? This is always how we installed VM maintenance in the past. Maybe we could consider keeping tradition???
If you go to the following web site, you will see as This is where Bob posted the ready-for-prime-time releases. Does anyone, other than Bob, have write access to this site? I agree that PUTs are passe. It is odd those living in this in-between world of old maintenance and distribution methods, and the new ones.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 02:23 PM, Tony Harminc wrote:
The only problem I see with that is that it's traditional to flag new or changed source lines with the fix ID, and if that's not known until someone else assigns it...
I nominate Tony ?
?
?... Mark S.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 01:59 PM, William Denton wrote:
So, how do we go about creating some sort of guidance/process for enhancing and maintaining future releases of VM370CE? I guess, first of all, is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea? If so, then we probably could use at least a loose sort of "product management" strategy.
Does anyone have the same level of access to as Bob had?
?
?... Mark S.
|
Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 07:36 PM, William Denton wrote:
was wondering if always just shipping a ZIP archive of completely refreshed Hercules disks is the right VM-ish way to deal with releases... Granted, we always need that for new installs but what about people who already have running systems and want to install the next minor release?
?
What about having something like VMCE PUT tapes? This is always how we installed VM maintenance in the past. Maybe we could consider keeping tradition???
?
If you go to the following web site, you will see as
?
This is where Bob posted the ready-for-prime-time releases. Does anyone, other than Bob, have write access to this site?
?
I agree that PUTs are passe. It is odd those living in this in-between world of old maintenance and distribution methods, and the new ones.
?
?... Mark S.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 05:58 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
Bob stripped out the MAINT profile exec, so after an install I have to mess with MAINT ¨C I would prefer a PROFILE EXEC at least with retrieve defined¡. Any other comments¡.
From older discussions on which key to use, these two seem most likely.
?
CP SET PF09 RETRIEVE
CP SET PF12 ERTRIEVE
?
This is what I have found useful for me when using MAINT on VM/370 CE 1.1.2
*
* User logon profile. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
*
&CONTROL OFF ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
* ACCESS MAINT TOOLS DISK ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
ACCESS 5E5 B/B ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
GLOBAL TXTLIB CMSLIB ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
GLOBAL MACLIB DMSGPI CMSHRC CMSLIB ?OSMACRO ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
CP SPOOL PUN TO * ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
CP SPOOL 00E TO SYSTEM NOHOLD ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
CP SET PF01 IMMED HELP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
CP SET PF02 IMMED XLIST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
CP SET PF03 ? ? ? LOGOFF ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
CP SET PF07 IMMED UP 8 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
CP SET PF08 IMMED DOWN 8 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
CP SET PF09 RETRIEVE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
&EXIT 0 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
?... Mark S.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
Ok sorry for top posting. I need to sort a better e-mail client than Outlook. Microsoft is crippling it and Thunderbird struggles with using IMAP to a large mailbox¡. ? So I feel PUT tapes are out!. The whole idea on VM/CE was it was Turnkey, you download and run and don¡¯t have to mess with stuff you don¡¯t understand to fix it¡ .. to help with this the CMSUSER disks are on a separate pack, so after an update you could copy your old CMS user disks back¡. ? It was also intended that some of MAINTS disks were reserved for user mods, and these would also be on a separate pack, but that appears not to be the case¡ ? >>>>> Question?? Has anyone used the 593 or 594 user mods disks? Could we bin them¡ ? Bob stripped out the MAINT profile exec, so after an install I have to mess with MAINT ¨C I would prefer a PROFILE EXEC at least with retrieve defined¡. Any other comments¡. ? >>>>>> Q ¨C would you like it back¡. ? ¡ its now time for my siesta. ? Dave ? ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of William Denton via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 1:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE #VMCE? I was wondering if always just shipping a ZIP archive of completely refreshed Hercules disks is the right VM-ish way to deal with releases... Granted, we always need that for new installs but what about people who already have running systems and want to install the next minor release? What about having something like VMCE PUT tapes? This is always how we installed VM maintenance in the past. Maybe we could consider keeping tradition???
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 20:36 William Denton via <williamedenton= [email protected]> wrote: I was wondering if always just shipping a ZIP archive of completely refreshed Hercules disks is the right VM-ish way to deal with releases... Granted, we always need that for new installs but what about people who already have running systems and want to install the next minor release?
What about having something like VMCE PUT tapes? This is always how we installed VM maintenance in the past. Maybe we could consider keeping tradition???
For the old-time VMers among us, yeah, shipping a tape with a few minidisks of update files would do the job, but only because we remember all the stuff Melinda wrote in What Mother Never Told You.? And even then, we screw up occasionally.? Case in point, when VM/CE 1.2 was built, the GCCLIB segment wasn't re-saved.? And the CMSTEST S-disk, MAINT 490, is missing some files that are on the 190 version.? These are all things that we know, and know how, to do.? VM/370 doesn't have tools to make this stuff automatic (and thank goodness - I've never liked SES).? Now, how are those among us who don't have that background going to fare?
Ross
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Martin Scheffler
Mark A. Stevens