Ross, Very sad news. I never met Bob, only conversed on here and in private. His parting will leave a great hole in my heart. His work on APL especially was amazing.. Can we arrange any kind of group tribute or memorial? Dave ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ross Patterson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2024 12:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [h390-vm] Sad news? Long-time VMer, SHARE VM stalwart, and member of this group Bob Bolch passed away on May 19th.? Bob's brother Mike informed me that he died from an aggressive cancer.? Bob had a kidney transplant 19 years ago, and had been on the requisite immunosuppressive drug regimen ever since, which?allowed the cancer to get hold and take over very quickly. Bob was one of the early inductees to the Knights of VM, as "Sir Robert the Guardian".? He worked for many years as one of the leading VM folks at the SAS Institute, and later worked with me at Sterling Software's VM Software Division.? Over the last few years, as some of you are aware, Bob was involved in and managed several releases of the VM/370 Community Edition.
|
Re: Diskmap and close parenthesis ")"
XEDIT is such a CMS command, one can code things behind de closing ), and the PROFILE XEDIT can exploit it.? My PROFILE XEDIT did do this.
--
Kris Buelens
|
Hello,
While I was the lead systems programmer at OCF Research Facility, my boss and I went to lunch with a salesperson who was trying to sell us a drum (2305, I thought).? This would have been 1981 and 1982.? I remember because I made a faux pas by showing my desire for a drum unit.? I didn't realize we were there for a free lunch and yes, a sales pitch, but mostly the free lunch.
It was my last "free lunch" from a salesperson until Amdahl tried selling a 470 to Cray Research, Inc.
Bertram Moshier WB8ERT
|
Sad news indeed, and a terrible loss. I knew him over zoom through his involvement with the brexx, crexx and apl projects on vm/370ce. He was a nice and funny man. We have lost an enormous amount of knowledge and we will miss him.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 3 Jun 2024, at 01:57, Ross Patterson <ross.patterson@...> wrote:
? I bring sad tidings.??
Long-time VMer, SHARE VM stalwart, and member of this group Bob Bolch passed away on May 19th.? Bob's brother Mike informed me that he died from an aggressive cancer.? Bob had a kidney transplant 19 years ago, and had been on the requisite immunosuppressive drug regimen ever since, which?allowed the cancer to get hold and take over very quickly.
Bob was one of the early inductees to the Knights of VM, as "Sir Robert the Guardian".? He worked for many years as one of the leading VM folks at the SAS Institute, and later worked with me at Sterling Software's VM Software Division.? Over the last few years, as some of you are aware, Bob was involved in and managed several releases of the VM/370 Community Edition.
Ross?
|
Man, I am so sorry to hear this.? I loved
working with Bob when I was at CA.? He was one of the most
talented and smartest people I've met.? He will be missed.
On 6/2/24 5:56 PM, Ross Patterson
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I bring sad tidings.??
Long-time VMer, SHARE VM
stalwart, and member of this group Bob Bolch passed away
on May 19th.? Bob's brother Mike informed me that he died
from an aggressive cancer.? Bob had a kidney transplant 19
years ago, and had been on the requisite immunosuppressive
drug regimen ever since, which?allowed the cancer to get
hold and take over very quickly.
Bob was one of the early
inductees to the Knights of VM, as "Sir Robert the
Guardian".? He worked for many years as one of the leading
VM folks at the SAS Institute, and later worked with me at
Sterling Software's VM Software Division.? Over the last
few years, as some of you are aware, Bob was involved in
and managed several releases of the VM/370 Community
Edition.
Ross?
|
I bring sad tidings.??
Long-time VMer, SHARE VM stalwart, and member of this group Bob Bolch passed away on May 19th.? Bob's brother Mike informed me that he died from an aggressive cancer.? Bob had a kidney transplant 19 years ago, and had been on the requisite immunosuppressive drug regimen ever since, which?allowed the cancer to get hold and take over very quickly.
Bob was one of the early inductees to the Knights of VM, as "Sir Robert the Guardian".? He worked for many years as one of the leading VM folks at the SAS Institute, and later worked with me at Sterling Software's VM Software Division.? Over the last few years, as some of you are aware, Bob was involved in and managed several releases of the VM/370 Community Edition.
Ross?
|
On Sat, Jun 1, 2024 at 9:23?PM Mark A. Stevens via <marXtevens= [email protected]> wrote: On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 05:02 PM, Ross Patterson wrote:
No.? It was still broken - the previous fix was insufficient.? There is a good fix in the current "develop" branch of SDL Hyperion, but it didn't happen in time for 4.7.
Have to admit I am puzzled, as I have run DISKMAP EXEC today, several times without problems, and have the following:
[xmas@vm370dev pdf]$ grep -Ei 'ecpsvm' ~/Hercules/VM/370/CE_V1R1M2_MAS/sixpackv4.conf
# is being used, without the fix for HERCULES ECPSVM issue #382 (closed).
## ECPSVM ? ? ? ?DISABLE DISP1 DISP2
ECPSVM ? ? ? ? ?YES
The negative interaction between BREXX and ECPSVM is extremely timing dependent.? The ECPSVM DISP2 instruction damages certain floating?point registers for the newly-dispatched user every time it runs.? But very little VM software uses the floating point instructions.? The one notable exception is BREXX, because it treats every?number as floating point when comparing or displaying it (among other uses).? But even then, the BREXX code needs to depend upon the value in the damaged register across an un-dispatch/re-dispatch sequence.? If it doesn't happen within that window, everything works fine.? If it does, though, all manner of bad numerical results can occur.? DISKMAP does a lot of arithmetic, and it loops over two different stem arrays, comparing the loop counter to whatever.0, and it displays a lot of numbers.? So it has a higher-than-average likelihood of getting harmed by this bug.
There is nothing you can do to reduce the probability of encountering the DISP2 floating point bug except to disable both DISP1 and DISP2 ECPSVM instructions.? There are things you can do that will increase?the probability.? You can use the victim registers a lot.? You can force your virtual machine to be undispatched during floating point math - for example, use the CP PER command to trace code that uses those registers.? I'm sure there are others.
It took me six weeks of increasingly-intensive diagnostics, and thousands of executions, to pin this down.? My test case was an extremely simple Rexx program:
If you told me when I started that the problem would be an incorrectly-simulated instruction (albeit an extremely complex one), I'd have laughed.
Ross
|
Re: SYSIPL macro in DMKSYS
Hello Mark,
When I woked for Owens Corning Fiberglas Research Center as it lead systems programmer, I wrote a program to backup the spool space every hour.? We didn't use it often, but it saved some people who purged one or more files.
Bert.
On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 07:33 PM, Bertram Moshier wrote:
What?do people think of having VM support going down the list concerning IPL startup? By this, I mean that if WARM fails, failover to CKPT, etc., if allowed by the SYSIPL macro.
You can see another discussion of the sequence here: /g/h390-vm/message/4517
This is kind of late in the game for us, but provides some background on the sequencing and why. See page 12.
When I was a sysprog for a university system, I wrote a program to backup spool files, so if we couldn't recover from WARM/CKPT, we would choose COLD and reload those we were sure of from tape, rather than guessing what we might recover from a FORCE.
?... Mark S.
|
Re: Diskmap and close parenthesis ")"
On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 05:44 PM, Bertram Moshier wrote:
The help file for diskmap shows the command supports a close parenthesis as an option
| DISKMAP ?| filename ?[( DISK [)]]
I know this isn't a big issue, but there it is this fine and wonderful day. :-)
Many of the CMS commands, provided by IBM are documented to have that optional close parenthesis. Many of those I have talked with don't use it, and don't expect it to work. I have seen a very few commands, none of which come to mind, that allow additional parameters after the close parenthesis. In IBM parlance, this would be documented as an APAR, and eventually a PTF would be provided to either change the documentation, or fix the code. APAR is an APAR (Authorized Program Analysis Report) (pronounced A-PAR, rhymes with far) is an IBM designation of a document intended to identify situations that could result in potential problems. It also serves as a request for the correction of a defect in current releases of IBM-supplied programs. ( PTF or Program Temporary Fix, is an IBM designation for an update to IBM supported code or documentation. ?... Mark S.
|
On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 05:02 PM, Ross Patterson wrote:
No.? It was still broken - the previous fix was insufficient.? There is a good fix in the current "develop" branch of SDL Hyperion, but it didn't happen in time for 4.7.
Have to admit I am puzzled, as I have run DISKMAP EXEC today, several times without problems, and have the following: [xmas@vm370dev pdf]$ grep -Ei 'ecpsvm' ~/Hercules/VM/370/CE_V1R1M2_MAS/sixpackv4.conf # is being used, without the fix for HERCULES ECPSVM issue #382 (closed). ## ECPSVM ? ? ? ?DISABLE DISP1 DISP2 ECPSVM ? ? ? ? ?YES [xmas@vm370dev pdf]$? and I am running: 20:13:06 HHC00100I Thread id 00007f4f58acbb80, prio 5, name 'impl_thread' started 20:13:06 HHC00100I Thread id 00007f4f562da700, prio 4, name 'logger_thread' started 20:13:06 HHC01413I Hercules version 4.4.1.10647-SDL-gd0ccfbc9 20:13:06 HHC01414I (C) Copyright 1999-2022 by Roger Bowler, Jan Jaeger, and others 20:13:06 HHC01417I ** The SoftDevLabs version of Hercules ** 20:13:06 HHC01415I Build date: May 29 2022 at 16:31:27 20:13:06 HHC01417I Built with: Clang 13.0.1 (Red Hat 13.0.1-1.module+el8.6.0+825+7e27476a) 20:13:06 HHC01417I Build type: GNU/Linux x86_64 host architecture build ... 20:13:06 HHC02204I DIAG8CMD ? ? ? set to DISABLE ?NOECHO 20:13:06 HHC02204I ECPSVM ? ? ? ? set to enabled, trap support enabled 20:13:06 HHC02204I TZOFFSET ? ? ? set to -0000 20:13:06 HHC02204I PORT ? ? ? ? ? set to port=8081 noauth ?... Mark S.
|
Re: SYSIPL macro in DMKSYS
On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 07:33 PM, Bertram Moshier wrote:
What?do people think of having VM support going down the list concerning IPL startup? By this, I mean that if WARM fails, failover to CKPT, etc., if allowed by the SYSIPL macro.
You can see another discussion of the sequence here: /g/h390-vm/message/4517This is kind of late in the game for us, but provides some background on the sequencing and why. See page 12. When I was a sysprog for a university system, I wrote a program to backup spool files, so if we couldn't recover from WARM/CKPT, we would choose COLD and reload those we were sure of from tape, rather than guessing what we might recover from a FORCE. ?... Mark S.
|
Decades ago I did some work with 3270 printers.? A printer is nothing more than another I/O addressable device.? Printing a 3270 monitor's screen contents was a local control unit function.? It was part of the CU's configuration.? The "print key" on a local monitor would send data to the configured printer attached to the same control unit.? That is one flavor of printing.? While it looks like this, the use of a CP command is different.
There is nothing stopping an application, VM/370 in this context, from sending content to any printer.? I did a bunch of that in CICS/VS "in the day".? The functionality is similar.? The user presses a monitor key and the screen appears at a printer. However, they are implemented entirely differently.? VM has to do the sending and it is not part of the 3270 control unit definition.
I would concur that the issue would appear to be in the VM/370 implementation.? It is not an issue with the "device" or "control unit" emulation software doing the printing.
It has been a long time.? There may have been some control characters recognized by the printer that were not recognized by monitors.? I only mention that, because to adjust the CP function for printing a monitor's buffer may require use of those characters.? A 3270 component description might be needed to adjust this.
I realize there are no concrete answers here, but this may help in first understanding the underlying issue and perhaps fixing it.
Harold Grovesteen
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 5/23/24 18:27, Fish Fish wrote: Dave Wade wrote:
Fish wrote:
Dave Wade wrote:
[...]
BUT there are still issues.
1. On windows pr3287 only closes the printer when you exit,
and nothing is printed till then even with the -emflush
option. Have you tried doing a devinit? No, but I have now and it makes no different.... Oh well. It was worth a shot.
2. if your terminal is other than 24x80, the data isn't
correctly formatted. I am not familiar with Herc's existing 3287 support, but this
sounds like a likely bug to me.
I don't think it’s a Hercules bug. I think it’s a VM/370 bug to do
with the way support for dynamic screen sizes were added. I suspect
the COPY command reads the 3270 screen but expects it is a 24 x 80
screen when its not, it interprets the data incorrectly.
I wouldn't know. You would know more about that than me.
[...]
I think it’s a VM bug. I will try and investigate. I leave that to you.
As far as the -emflush issue goes, it might just be a bug in the Windows version of x3270? But again, I leave that to you.
You guys working on VM/370 CE do amazing work!
|
Dave Wade wrote: Fish wrote:
Dave Wade wrote:
[...]
BUT there are still issues.
1. On windows pr3287 only closes the printer when you exit,
and nothing is printed till then even with the -emflush
option. Have you tried doing a devinit? No, but I have now and it makes no different.... Oh well. It was worth a shot. 2. if your terminal is other than 24x80, the data isn't
correctly formatted. I am not familiar with Herc's existing 3287 support, but this
sounds like a likely bug to me.
I don't think it’s a Hercules bug. I think it’s a VM/370 bug to do
with the way support for dynamic screen sizes were added. I suspect
the COPY command reads the 3270 screen but expects it is a 24 x 80
screen when its not, it interprets the data incorrectly.
I wouldn't know. You would know more about that than me. [...] I think it’s a VM bug. I will try and investigate. I leave that to you. As far as the -emflush issue goes, it might just be a bug in the Windows version of x3270? But again, I leave that to you. You guys working on VM/370 CE do amazing work! -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via
groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 7:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] CP SET PFnn COPY ccu
Dave Wade wrote:
[...]
BUT there are still issues.
1. On windows pr3287 only closes the printer when you exit,
and nothing is printed till then even with the -emflush
option. Have you tried doing a devinit?
No, but I have now and it makes no different....
2. if your terminal is other than 24x80, the data isn't
correctly formatted. I am not familiar with Herc's existing 3287 support, but this sounds like a likely
bug to me.
I don't think it’s a Hercules bug. I think it’s a VM/370 bug to do with the way support for dynamic screen sizes were added. I suspect the COPY command reads the 3270 screen but expects it is a 24 x 80 screen when its not, it interprets the data incorrectly.
And whilst there is possibly some use for 3287 printers I can't really
see a use for the PF COPY function. I myself can't see the use of a 3287 AT ALL, let alone for the PF COPY function! :)
Doesn't some one have a 3174 with an ASCII adaptor that allows printer attached to it to appear as a 3278. It might be useful to them. I see PC Comms has the ability to do some conversion to HPGL and Plotters so perhaps useful there. I personally doubt very many Hercules users (if any at all!) have a bona fide need
for such a device, but since Herc does support such a thing, its support *should*
be accurate/correct IMO. The opening (creating) of a GitHub Issue sounds
warranted to me.
I think it is accurate. I think it’s a VM bug. I will try and investigate. --
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
Dave
|
Dave Wade wrote: [...] BUT there are still issues.
1. On windows pr3287 only closes the printer when you exit,
and nothing is printed till then even with the -emflush
option. Have you tried doing a devinit? 2. if your terminal is other than 24x80, the data isn't
correctly formatted. I am not familiar with Herc's existing 3287 support, but this sounds like a likely bug to me. And whilst there is possibly some use for 3287 printers I can't
really see a use for the PF COPY function. I myself can't see the use of a 3287 AT ALL, let alone for the PF COPY function! :) I personally doubt very many Hercules users (if any at all!) have a bona fide need for such a device, but since Herc does support such a thing, its support *should* be accurate/correct IMO. The opening (creating) of a GitHub Issue sounds warranted to me. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
|
Fish, Jay, Bertram,
I really must learn to read things properly.
So if I
1. Define a device in the Hercules config as a 3287 rather than a 3270,
2. Set the matching device in DMKRIO as a 3287 then things work almost as expected.
So pr3278 will connect and if I set a set a PF key as per the subject, pressing that key copies data to the printer.
BUT there are still issues.
1. On windows pr3287 only closes the printer when you exit, and nothing is printed till then even with the -emflush option.
2. if your terminal is other than 24x80 the data isn't correctly formatted.
And whilst there is possibly some use for 3287 printers I can't really see a use for the PF COPY function.
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via
groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 6:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] CP SET PFnn COPY ccu
Gregg Levine wrote:
[...]
Because Fish one of the things I did notice early on is that the
PR3287 device support is terminal only, and Hercules wasn't setup for
that. I don't understand what you're saying. Yes, a 3287 is indeed a printer:
* GA27-3190-0 "3287 Printer Models 11 and 12 Component Description, page
1-1:
"The IBM 3287 Printer (Models 11 and 12) is a compact, movable,
desk top printer that is attached to a controlling unit either
by a direct attached or data-link attached system communication loop."
but your claim that "...and Hercules wasn't setup for that." is confusing me.
Hercules most certainly does support 3287 printers, and has done so since at
least 2 July 2002 (i.e. version 2.16.3):
*
2.16.3:
3287 printer support via TN3270 (Tomas Masek)
That is of course for the Hercules 3 Series. And every subsequent version of Hercules since then too. As I said, it's been
there since version 2.16.3!
How hard would it be to build it into the system? It's already there! And has been for the past 22 years!
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
|
Jay, I defined it was defined as a 3284, but I now tried a 3287 and it still won’t connect. I assume like a 3270 display it should connect before VM is loaded… … but it doesn’t Dave ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jay Maynard via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] CP SET PFnn COPY ccu? I would expect you'd need to define it in DMKRIO?as a 3287, then. I don't have PCOMM, so can't try using it to connect a printer. I haven't tried pr3287 on Linux either. ? Jay, This is VM. There isn’t a sysgen as such, just DMKRIO for real devices. There are no SNA devices or VTAM. I think there is a PR3270 equivalent, but I also think there was a 3270 printer driver for RSCS. What is puzzling is that if I define a device as a 3270 printer in IBM PCOMMS it won’t connect to Hercules… Dave ? ? You can plug a printer or a terminal into any port on a 3x74. It's?up to the host's software - typically, the sysgen or MVSCP for local non-SNA devices, along with VTAM - to treat it as a terminal or a printer. Hercules will handle a printer data stream and pass it along to a printer-supporting program like pr3287. ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via
>
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 3:38 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] CP SET PFnn COPY ccu
>
> > I don’t see any support for 3270 printers in Hercules,
>
>
>
Whilst the entry for "Local non-SNA 3270 devices"? ?"display or printer" there is no mention of "printer" in the detailed description of the command.
Am I to assume that ANY 3270 device can be a printer, it just depends on how its defined on the host??
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
> Software Development Laboratories
>
> mail: fish@...
>
Dave
--
--
|
I would expect you'd need to define it in DMKRIO?as a 3287, then.
I don't have PCOMM, so can't try using it to connect a printer. I haven't tried pr3287 on Linux either.
Jay, This is VM. There isn’t a sysgen as such, just DMKRIO for real devices. There are no SNA devices or VTAM. I think there is a PR3270 equivalent, but I also think there was a 3270 printer driver for RSCS. What is puzzling is that if I define a device as a 3270 printer in IBM PCOMMS it won’t connect to Hercules… Dave ? ? You can plug a printer or a terminal into any port on a 3x74. It's?up to the host's software - typically, the sysgen or MVSCP for local non-SNA devices, along with VTAM - to treat it as a terminal or a printer. Hercules will handle a printer data stream and pass it along to a printer-supporting program like pr3287. ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via
>
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 3:38 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] CP SET PFnn COPY ccu
>
> > I don’t see any support for 3270 printers in Hercules,
>
>
>
Whilst the entry for "Local non-SNA 3270 devices"? ?"display or printer" there is no mention of "printer" in the detailed description of the command.
Am I to assume that ANY 3270 device can be a printer, it just depends on how its defined on the host??
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
> Software Development Laboratories
>
> mail: fish@...
>
Dave
--
|
Jay, This is VM. There isn’t a sysgen as such, just DMKRIO for real devices. There are no SNA devices or VTAM. I think there is a PR3270 equivalent, but I also think there was a 3270 printer driver for RSCS. What is puzzling is that if I define a device as a 3270 printer in IBM PCOMMS it won’t connect to Hercules… Dave ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jay Maynard via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 12:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] CP SET PFnn COPY ccu? You can plug a printer or a terminal into any port on a 3x74. It's?up to the host's software - typically, the sysgen or MVSCP for local non-SNA devices, along with VTAM - to treat it as a terminal or a printer. Hercules will handle a printer data stream and pass it along to a printer-supporting program like pr3287. ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via
>
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 3:38 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] CP SET PFnn COPY ccu
>
> > I don’t see any support for 3270 printers in Hercules,
>
>
>
Whilst the entry for "Local non-SNA 3270 devices"? ?"display or printer" there is no mention of "printer" in the detailed description of the command.
Am I to assume that ANY 3270 device can be a printer, it just depends on how its defined on the host??
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
> Software Development Laboratories
>
> mail: fish@...
>
Dave
--
|
You can plug a printer or a terminal into any port on a 3x74. It's?up to the host's software - typically, the sysgen or MVSCP for local non-SNA devices, along with VTAM - to treat it as a terminal or a printer. Hercules will handle a printer data stream and pass it along to a printer-supporting program like pr3287.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via
>
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 3:38 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] CP SET PFnn COPY ccu
>
> > I don’t see any support for 3270 printers in Hercules,
>
>
>
Whilst the entry for "Local non-SNA 3270 devices"? ?"display or printer" there is no mention of "printer" in the detailed description of the command.
Am I to assume that ANY 3270 device can be a printer, it just depends on how its defined on the host??
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
> Software Development Laboratories
>
> mail: fish@...
>
Dave
|
Mark A. Stevens