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This group is for all folks running the original IBM VM/370 Release 6 operating system (or later (e.g. VMTCE (Community Edition)) on Hercules. Like the other early IBM operating systems this version has always been in the public domain and so can be freely distributed. The base version as supplied by IBM is lacking in many facilities. IBM solved this by providing additional extension products which were licensed and so are not available. There are however many user enhancements available which can be installed. In addition, in order to get users up and running quickly updated "releases" of VM/370 included the most popular updates are available for download, so novices can start to learn VM without having to delve into the system internals. It is intended that this wiki will provide information on the base release and these updates.
The available versions are here :-
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 at 09:12, Bob Bolch <Bob@...> wrote:
I'm very impressed - that can't have been trivial. It wasn't clear to me if you'd repurposed the "standalone" supervisor to run in a VM (and that's why I asked what gets IPL'd in the VM). But your approach sounds like the best one to get a single-user APL under CMS. ?
Ya, that makes sense. IIRC that's what Juergen's APL for MVT (or MVT for APL...) does too. Well one of these centuries I hope to get the goo out of my old 2741 and get it talking to Hercules and hopefully APL. I do have an APL typeball. Tony H.
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
Hi Tony, I? wrote entirely new code in the APL supervisor to support 3270s. I replaced the old supervisor code to run 1 APL?user in 1 CMS Virtual Machine. All that new code is included in the download from this site, along with build instructions. I complied with the license agreement so you have to download the old IBM code from the Computer museum, and then build a MODULE using the provided instructions. Bob On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 8:38?PM Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 at 18:07, Bob Bolch <Bob@...> wrote:
I've seen the code (both 50 years ago on fiche and more recently), but I didn't agree to? anything.
So you wrote entirely new code in the APL supervisor to support 3270s? Wow - I missed that somehow. And also to allow the supervisor to run in a VM? Or did you write en entirely new Supervisor to host the Interpreter?? What gets IPL'd in the VM? APL\360 came with three options: OS/360, DOS. and "standalone". But the standalone version was just the DOS one except that after initialization it overlaid the DOS supervisor with I/O buffers. That you were able to do either says a lot about the original APL implementors and their rigid distinction between the APL Interpreter and Supervisor at a time when such modularity and layering was little known. ?
Mark has beaten me to it (DMKCNS), but other than the channel-attached 1052/3215 console, line-mode on 2741/1050/etc via async 270x-style lines was the only kind of VM/370 terminal device to start with. Supporting such devices in a VM might require Diagnose help with the dynamic channel programs used by APL. I remember writing that to allow MVT TCAM to work in a VM. The Adesse VM course manual, although aimed at VM/SP, still has a great deal of useful info on how VM/370 works. I took that course in person in 1985, and much later tried to track down the copyright owner with no success. I very much doubt anyone will be going after bitsavers (or me!) over it. Tony H. |
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
The code I started with is available here: That code ran in a special environment in OS/360. The runtime environment from OS/360 was not included. You have to agree not to redistribute the source, to get a copy. I built a runtime environment on VM/370 to use that code. I made it work on a VM370 3270 with the APL support available for that device.? I don't remember any linemode 2741 support being available in VM/370. If you know where it is, please show me. Bob Bolch On Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 5:15?PM Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 at 17:10, Bob Bolch <Bob@...> wrote:
Are you saying that CP has no 2741 support? Someone must have taken it out. The 2741 was a mainstay of VM/370 when it was in its prime. I'm also puzzled about how APL\360 got 3270 support. Certainly the code as it came from IBM didn't have it. Tony H. |
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
True. Our VM/370 has no linemode terminal support for a 2741. Bob Bolch On Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:17?PM M Verpelli via <mverpelli=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
开云体育
?page 88ff describes function editing in APL\360.
Seems to work with slashes under the current line.?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of M Verpelli via groups.io <mverpelli@...>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 10:17 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function ?
What you wrote is reported in the GC26-3847 manual from 1975 but it doesn't seem to work with the version of APL available to us Marco |
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
开云体育
e.g. [delta4] where delta is the APL delta sign (on key D) would delete line 4 of the current function.
to open the editor use the nabla operator.
eg.
nabla TEST []
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Mike Beer <mike@...>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 9:35 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function ?
deltaN in square brackets deletes a single line in the APL del editor.
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Bob Bolch <Bob@...>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 9:23 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function ?
Hey Dave,
I remember it is possible to edit APL functions on a full screen 3270 with APL support, but I haven't looked at it in years. I will look into it this week.
Bob
On Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 10:21?AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
开云体育
deltaN in square brackets deletes a single line in the APL del editor.
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Bob Bolch <Bob@...>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 9:23 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function ?
Hey Dave,
I remember it is possible to edit APL functions on a full screen 3270 with APL support, but I haven't looked at it in years. I will look into it this week.
Bob
On Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 10:21?AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
Hey Dave, I remember it is possible to edit APL functions on a full screen 3270 with APL support, but I haven't looked at it in years. I will look into it this week. Bob On Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 10:21?AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
开云体育Bob, Is there a way to delete a line then? Dave ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Bolch
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 2:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function ? The version of APL360 that I made available only has support for PCOMM?and the Blue Zone 3270 emulators with their APL features. There is no support for any line mode terminal emulation. ? Bob Bolch? ? On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 9:09?AM M Verpelli via <mverpelli=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
Hm. I should try it with my 3279 S3G-1, which has the APL ROS in it (but not an APL keyboard). On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 8:20?AM Bob Bolch <Bob@...> wrote:
--
Jay Maynard |
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
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Show quoted text
On 12 Apr 2024, at 15:20, Bob Bolch <bob@...> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
The version of APL360 that I made available only has support for PCOMM?and the Blue Zone 3270 emulators with their APL features. There is no support for any line mode terminal emulation. Bob Bolch? On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 9:09?AM M Verpelli via <mverpelli=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
I downloaded and installed the version found in this group.
With PCOMM and the APL keyboard (ctrl-F8)? everything works except what I have already said. I'm pretty sure I read that using a 2741 device emulated with Hercules causes abend in VM/370.
If there is any news on this, I would be grateful to hear about it. Marco ? |
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
开云体育Correct, APL did not initially support 3270's as these did not yet exist. You needed a 2741 terminal attached via start/stop line.? I know this because my first IT job (early 70's) was in Poughkeepsie with a company that offered time sharing services using APL to not-for-profit organizations, usually schools.? How exactly this is configured with Hercules I have no idea.? There was work done on the Hercules 270x emulation (the mainframe end point of the start/stop telephone line) for APL. What I am saying is, APL will work as described in the Primer on Hercules.? Will APL work under VM?? Do not know.? Whether support within APL existed for a system console (which you are using) to be a terminal that could edit APL is unclear to me.? Rather doubtful.? Entirely different character set. Never actually worked in the data center in that job so do not
know the system end.?? I do remember that APL was run on DOS and
later they moved to DOS/VS. Harold Grovesteen On 4/12/24 03:20, Dave Wade wrote:
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Re: VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function
开云体育Marco, I guessed that was the case. Not sure how to proceed. Dave ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of M Verpelli via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 9:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [h390-vm] VM/370 CE - Editing an APL function ? Yes, by entering BEGIN you return to the APL session but the line to be deleted is sitll here. |
M Verpelli
