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This group is for all folks running the original IBM VM/370 Release 6 operating system (or later (e.g. VMTCE (Community Edition)) on Hercules. Like the other early IBM operating systems this version has always been in the public domain and so can be freely distributed. The base version as supplied by IBM is lacking in many facilities. IBM solved this by providing additional extension products which were licensed and so are not available. There are however many user enhancements available which can be installed. In addition, in order to get users up and running quickly updated "releases" of VM/370 included the most popular updates are available for download, so novices can start to learn VM without having to delve into the system internals. It is intended that this wiki will provide information on the base release and these updates.
The available versions are here :-
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Re: "Waterloo Tapes" in H390-VM group's Files area
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 02:39 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
I imagine from a real tape which came with the tapes used to build the original system. From what I remember, and it's a fuzzy memory, the process was that each site that received a copy agreed to make two copies for other sites. So most sites had a copy of the tape.I was scanning through the WATERLOO tapes which I got from here. WATERLOO2 and WATERLOO6 end with errors. Does any one have an alternate source for these? ?... Mark S. |
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Re: BREXX installation instructions
On May 3, 2020, Peter Farley wrote:
>Everything VMARC can be found on Ross's website: > Several months later, I put all that stuff up on GitHub at?, because OOCities was a read-only mirror of the GeoCities site I built back around 2002 :-)? I did not put Peter's stuff up there (except for VMARC V1R2P028, his VM/370 fix), or any of the several other VMARC variants, because I wasn't clear on the ownership of them.? As noted in that repo, VMARC is not mine - John Fisher at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute wrote it and shared it with the world-wide VM community, way back in 1989.? The license is not GPL or any other Open Source, because none of those models existed yet.? I contributed and collected a variety of fixes, but it's really John's work. Ross |
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File /sadump-s370.tar.gz uploaded
#file-notice
Group Notification
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group. By: Harold Grovesteen <h.grovsteen@...> Description: |
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Re: Virtual Machine Memory
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Re: Virtual Machine Memory
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHarold, I think I turned attachments off. Just create a temp folder in the files section and upload, then only those who need it download it. Dave ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harold Grovesteen
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 2:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Virtual Machine Memory ? Thanks so much for your responses. My first question, can the VM's memory contents be "extracted" from the virtual machine and this content be moved from the VM system for processing is in fact possible.? Is it worth doing?? It is clear if I were to go in that direction, it would be a separate utility. As is frequent with such questions, the concept got expanded somewhat.? Happy to see it stimulated a few "grey/gray cells". ? I appreciate the suggestion of how to do this with a VM system.? However, I do not have a running VM system.? I gave up all personal interest in system administration of all sorts by the time I retired.? If someone is willing to produce such a dump in a form my Linux PC could read, I would appreciate it.? If not I understand that too.? It would give me an idea of whether this separate utility might be worth looking at developing. Just a little background: I have been working on a bare-metal development system (SATK) used outside of a mainframe.? My frustrations working on OpenSolaris support in Hercules drove me to realizing this tool would be of value.? A lot of Hercules tests now use SATK.? My work with QEMU finally drove me to work on closing the loop by producing a memory dump for this development system. This is unlike your usual experience where everything is developed within VM (CMS), run on VM, and the output examined on VM.? In the SATK environment the bare-metal program is build outside the mainframe, loaded into it, and the output's destination, in this case a dump, is also outside the mainframe, the PC. Again, thanks so much.? I have a fully working version for the S/370 world.? Does anyone know if this list supports attachments? Harold Grovesteen On 3/27/24 04:07, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
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Re: Virtual Machine Memory
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThanks so much for your responses. My first question, can the VM's memory contents be "extracted" from the virtual machine and this content be moved from the VM system for processing is in fact possible.? Is it worth doing?? It is clear if I were to go in that direction, it would be a separate utility. As is frequent with such questions, the concept got expanded somewhat.? Happy to see it stimulated a few "grey/gray cells". ? I appreciate the suggestion of how to do this with a VM system.? However, I do not have a running VM system.? I gave up all personal interest in system administration of all sorts by the time I retired.? If someone is willing to produce such a dump in a form my Linux PC could read, I would appreciate it.? If not I understand that too.? It would give me an idea of whether this separate utility might be worth looking at developing. Just a little background: I have been working on a bare-metal development system (SATK) used outside of a mainframe.? My frustrations working on OpenSolaris support in Hercules drove me to realizing this tool would be of value.? A lot of Hercules tests now use SATK.? My work with QEMU finally drove me to work on closing the loop by producing a memory dump for this development system. This is unlike your usual experience where everything is developed within VM (CMS), run on VM, and the output examined on VM.? In the SATK environment the bare-metal program is build outside the mainframe, loaded into it, and the output's destination, in this case a dump, is also outside the mainframe, the PC. Again, thanks so much.? I have a fully working version for the S/370 world.? Does anyone know if this list supports attachments? Harold Grovesteen On 3/27/24 04:07, Frank D. Engel, Jr.
wrote:
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Re: Virtual Machine Memory
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýWondering if the proposed new command could actually be added at the CP level instead of the CMS/MVS level. CP might save the state of the machine to a prepared location in
DASD then restore it when the user next logs in, essentially
mimicking the VMWare (for example) suspend/restore capability.?
Users can already disconnect and leave the machine intact to
reconnect to it later (even leaving it running in the background),
so from a user perspective this would extend that with the option
to reconnect to it even after a shutdown / re-ipl of VM, but
without leaving it running in between. There would obviously be limits to this when working with dedicated hardware, but for virtualized hardware as with a typical CMS machine, I would think it could be done (granted with a fair amount of effort)?
On 3/27/24 00:23, Bertram Moshier
wrote:
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Re: Virtual Machine Memory
Hello Harold, What you desire doesn't exist in VM/370 today, but it is possible.? Cray Supercomputers are real memory systems that use swapping to allow multiple users to use the same real memory space.? IBM went with paging for its solution to this problem.? Seymore Cray rejected this method because it added around seven cycles?to each operation referencing?memory. Let us see if I understand you correctly.? You want to take a snapshot of a virtual machine's memory (e.g., 0 to maximum storage size of the machine).? How you accomplish this depends upon what you want to do with the image and the memory methodology used by the users' virtual machine operating system. There are two methods for collecting a copy of the memory for offline examination.? They are:
On the other hand, if you want to stop and restart an operating system without regard to space or time and support both paging and swapping, you will need to add a new command to the operating system. This would be similar to Windows hibernation but with more functionality.? As this new command is at the operating system level (e.g., MVS), it would support both real and virtual environments. Bertram Moshir WB8ERT On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 8:05?AM Harold Grovesteen <h.grovsteen@...> wrote: For my Stand Alone Tool Kit project I am working on the ability to |
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Re: Virtual Machine Memory
Hi Harold,
All versions of VM, from VM/370 through z/VM support the CP DUMP command.? This command dumps virtual machine storage to the virtual machine's printer.? The issuer of the command can specify an address and length to be dumped, including the entire virtual machine storage area. Since the dump content is printed, it is in character form, not raw binary.? It is a formatted dump, in essence.? The format of the printed dump varies a bit for the different versions of VM to account for architecture differences (for example dumping 24 vs 31 bit addresses) but they are largely similar. Since the dump is written to the virtual printer, the output of the CP DUMP command ends up in the VM spool.? You could read the spool file back into a virtual machine for manipulation using i/o commands to the virtual reader, or you could use the DIAGNOSE X'14' spool interface to read it (present in all versions), or you could read it back in using CMS and the READCARD command. Since the dump is formatted and depending on your needs, you may have to reconvert the formatted data back into a binary form.? Not a difficult exercise but as you said, a separate problem for later. If you wish to see what one of these dumps looks like, here is an example set of command to obtain a small dump, and read it back into the virtual machine so you can use CMS to review it.? Logon to a CMS userid and issue: 1. SPOOL PRT * 2. CP DUMP 0.2000 3. CLOSE PRT 4. READ DUMP OUTPUT 5. browse or edit the DUMP OUTPUT file to view the contents. This will dump your virtual machine storage from location 0 for X'2000' bytes.? Just enough for a nice sample. Regards, Bob |
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Re: Virtual Machine Memory
Harold,
? ?It probably won't be what you are looking for, but back in the early 80's, I fooled around with the SAVESYS command to save images of DOS release 27.? However, they were fairly useless since when reloaded, the system was unaware of any pending interrupts that had been in progress at the time of the SAVESYS.? SAVESYS, if I remember correctly, is more traditionally used with discontinguous shared segments, so I was pushing the envelope by trying to use them for DOS virtual machines. ? ?Downloading recent z/VM manuals just now, there seems to be setup required to use SAVESYS. ? ?I haven't intensively used VM since 1983, just occasional application work at systems software companies, ending in 1996.?? ? ? ? ? Allan |
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Virtual Machine Memory
For my Stand Alone Tool Kit project I am working on the ability to create a formatted memory dump.? It depends upon preserving the machine's memory in a host (Windows, Linux, etc.) platform's host file system.? With Hercules this is accomplished using the Hercules command 'savecore'.
SATK is sometimes used with z/VM virtual machines.? So, I am asking: is it possible to transfer the contents of a virtual machine's physical (absolute storage) memory out of VM (any version, VM/370 or z/VM) in any manner at all? The assumption is that a bare-metal program has been executing within the virtual machine, so CMS is out of the picture.? This would strictly be CP commands as I understand things. Assuming the storage contents exists outside of the virtual machine, whatever format that turns out to be, can be manipulated for use by the dump program.? Separate problem for later. Note, I am not opposed to a programmatic approach from within the virtual machine embedded within the bare-metal program if required to get the memory content out of the virtual machine, BUT only if that is the only way. Asking the experts... Harold Grovesteen |
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Re: Reconnect to MVS Console
Hello, You'll reconnect to the MVS console no matter the run setting.? The run setting allows the virtual machine to continue running regardless of the state of the console.? The default is RUN OFF, which means to NOT allow the virtual machine to operate, when the console is in a CP READ.? If run is ON, the virtual machine (for you MVS) can continue to function. The following paraphrased is from the CP Command Reference Guide for General Users: The SET RUN ON/OFF command controls whether the virtual machine stops when the attention key is pressed or upon reconnection to a disconnected virtual machine. Set run ON allows you to activate the attention key (causing a read of a CP command) without stopping your virtual machine. When the CP command is entered, it is immediately executed and the virtual machine resumes execution. OFF places the virtual machine in the normal CP environment, so that when the attention key is pressed, the virtual machine stops. When you log on VM/SP, RUN is set off.? For your purposes the PA1 button is part of the reconection process of VM.? Unless run is on, you'll fall into a? rEAD and MVS will not run until you do the BEGIN command (B). Bertram Moshier WB8ERT On Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 19:18 Daniel L. Srebnick via <dan=[email protected]> wrote: Hi Bertram: |
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Re: Reconnect to MVS Console
Hello, To have MVS running upon reconnecting to the MVS console you need to set run on (#CP SET RUN ON) before disconnecting from the console. I'm not sure how you start MVS.? I can think of two methods: ?1) USER DIRECT directive of IPL <drive number> ?2) A script (EXEC, EXEC2, or BREXX) to set up the virtual machine to run MVS and the start MVS (e.g., CP IPL <drive letter>). If it is number two, you could set run on (CP SET RUN ON) in the script. If it is number one, you'll need to manually issue both the set run on and disconnect commands manually.? You can combine CP commands.? An example is:? #CP SET RUN ON #CP DISC I hooe the above thoughts help you.? Please let us on this forum know how it turns out. Thank you, Bertram Moshier WB8ERT On Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 16:51 Daniel L. Srebnick via <dan=[email protected]> wrote: Ah, that is right, it kept running with #CP DISC. |
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Re: Reconnect to MVS Console
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýIf you enter #CP LOGOFF you logoff the MVS machine. You need #CP DISC to leave it running. To reconnect just logon to the ID you are using to run MVS. You usually then need to enter ¡°BEGIN¡±¡ ? Dave ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Daniel L. Srebnick via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 9:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [h390-vm] Reconnect to MVS Console ? I'm running MVS as a guest under VM/370.? If I #CP LOGOFF to disconnect, the MVS system keeps running.? At some point, I want to logon mvs to reconnect to the console.? However, when I logon, the console is not present and I am in a CP session. |
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Reconnect to MVS Console
I'm running MVS as a guest under VM/370.? If I #CP LOGOFF to disconnect, the MVS system keeps running.? At some point, I want to logon mvs to reconnect to the console.? However, when I logon, the console is not present and I am in a CP session.
What can I do to get back the console? Or, if I am asking the wrong question, how do I best disconnect from the MVS operator console which MVS keeps running and reconnect to it later? |
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Re: BREXX DO loop counting weirdness
My recollection is that issue is about argument processing, but the fix makes sure the segment is up to date. Please perform the procedure to save the segment.? I will be away all day tomorrow for appointments, and check status later tomorrow afternoon.? (EST) On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:39?PM Ross Patterson <ross.patterson@...> wrote:
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Mark A. Stevens
Ren¨¦ Ferland