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Locked Re: Reverification after Blacklist

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

you only need to respond if you received the verification request direct from groups.io.

responding to my message does nothing.

?

Dave

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Piotr Kolasinski
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2024 8:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Reverification after Blacklist

?

I also respond .

?

Piotr

?

?

W dniu pt., 26.01.2024 o 16:55 Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> napisa?(a):

Folks,

I can see we have thee types of users in this group.
One type have received a re-verification message from and replied, to these I say Thank You.

One type, the ones I am targeting here, have received the message and not replied.
If they continue to ignore this message they will be removed from all their groups by and their fully qualified domains blacklisted.
They are all personal domains, or personal sub-domains of a larger domain, so the chances are no one else will notice.
This action has been forced by an e-mail from being received in a honeypot mailbox.

Oh and to the vast majority, who use say , or and who have not received the notice, just go back to sleep. Sorry I woke you.

Dave
Locked Re: Reverification after Blacklist

 

Not sure if I have to reply to all my groups.io groups.

Well replying here ;-)

Bert
Locked Re: Reverification after Blacklist

 

I also respond .

Piotr


W dniu pt., 26.01.2024 o 16:55 Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> napisa?(a):

Folks,

I can see we have thee types of users in this group.
One type have received a re-verification message from and replied, to these I say Thank You.

One type, the ones I am targeting here, have received the message and not replied.
If they continue to ignore this message they will be removed from all their groups by and their fully qualified domains blacklisted.
They are all personal domains, or personal sub-domains of a larger domain, so the chances are no one else will notice.
This action has been forced by an e-mail from being received in a honeypot mailbox.

Oh and to the vast majority, who use say , or and who have not received the notice, just go back to sleep. Sorry I woke you.

Dave
Locked Re: Reverification after Blacklist

 

Dave,
? ? as requested, I'm replying.?
Thank you,
? ? Hank

On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 10:25?AM Bertram Moshier <herc370390vm@...> wrote:
Dave,

It's OK that you woke me.? Sorry to hear about the problem.? Hopefully we can get back to VM/370 CE or VM/CE.

Bertram Moshier

On Fri, Jan 26, 2024, 09:55 Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Folks,

I can see we have thee types of users in this group.
One type have received a re-verification message from and replied, to these I say Thank You.

One type, the ones I am targeting here, have received the message and not replied.
If they continue to ignore this message they will be removed from all their groups by and their fully qualified domains blacklisted.
They are all personal domains, or personal sub-domains of a larger domain, so the chances are no one else will notice.
This action has been forced by an e-mail from being received in a honeypot mailbox.

Oh and to the vast majority, who use say , or and who have not received the notice, just go back to sleep. Sorry I woke you.

Dave
Missing MVS Macro Calls

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Folks,

I know that JCC doesn¡¯t work with VM/370 because it uses OS Macros/SVCs that are not in the CMS OS emulation.

Many moons ago I fixed this in GCCMS but I can¡¯t do the same for JCC as there is no library source.

Has anyone ever added the extra SVCs to the OS emulation to fill in some of the gaps?

Dave
Re: SRE

 

On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 06:56 PM, Doug Wegscheid wrote:

On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 08:21 PM, Mark A. Stevens wrote:

If I signal an interrupt, can they be paged in? ;-)

only if the device needing service is not the paging device.

In a well-run organization, if the primary on-call is not available for whatever reason the page automatically escalates to over to the back up (secondary) on-call.

Which reminds me of the time I was secondary on-call and my rookie primary went to a loud concert. I ¡­ spoke?¡­ to them the following morning; they remembered the lesson!

In fact, the three different ways I got notified didn't ALL fire at once; in an sort of internal escalation, they were few seconds apart, giving me a chance to reply to the SMS??at 3:07 AM before my spouse got further harassed by a phone ringing. The SMS was bad enough; I settled on the Station 51 Klaxon (from the TV show Emergency) for the SMS tone and the bridge from Led Zeppelin's?Rock'n'Roll as the robocall ringtone.

(As I said, I don't like missing pages.)

The spouse did?ban anything that sounded anything like a smoke alarm or siren, which eliminated the Star Trek Red Alert signal.

-ahd-

p.s. And yes, 9 years later, I'm still in rehab for all this.
Locked Re: Reverification after Blacklist

 

Dave,

It's OK that you woke me.? Sorry to hear about the problem.? Hopefully we can get back to VM/370 CE or VM/CE.

Bertram Moshier

On Fri, Jan 26, 2024, 09:55 Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
Folks,

I can see we have thee types of users in this group.
One type have received a re-verification message from and replied, to these I say Thank You.

One type, the ones I am targeting here, have received the message and not replied.
If they continue to ignore this message they will be removed from all their groups by and their fully qualified domains blacklisted.
They are all personal domains, or personal sub-domains of a larger domain, so the chances are no one else will notice.
This action has been forced by an e-mail from being received in a honeypot mailbox.

Oh and to the vast majority, who use say , or and who have not received the notice, just go back to sleep. Sorry I woke you.

Dave
Locked Reverification after Blacklist

 

Folks,

I can see we have thee types of users in this group.
One type have received a re-verification message from groups.io and replied, to these I say Thank You.

One type, the ones I am targeting here, have received the message and not replied.
If they continue to ignore this message they will be removed from all their groups by groups.io and their fully qualified domains blacklisted.
They are all personal domains, or personal sub-domains of a larger domain, so the chances are no one else will notice.
This action has been forced by an e-mail from groups.io being received in a honeypot mailbox.

Oh and to the vast majority, who use say gmail.com, outlook.com or yahoo.com and who have not received the notice, just go back to sleep. Sorry I woke you.

Dave
Re: SRE

 

On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 08:21 PM, Mark A. Stevens wrote:

If I signal an interrupt, can they be paged in? ;-)

only if the device needing service is not the paging device.
Re: SRE

 

On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 10:11 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:
Maybe SREs are just paged out. :-)
If I signal an interrupt, can they be paged in? ;-)

?... Mark S.
Re: SRE

 


I use "SRE Emeritus" because "Defrocked SRE" sounds so dirty ¡­?

There are lists out there along the lines of "If priests are defrocked and lawyers are disbarred, then..." electricians are delighted, cowboys are deranged, models are deposed, and so on. So I imagine programmers are decoded (or deprogrammed) but I'm not sure about SREs. Engineers are derailed (or detrained), but that's a different kind of engineer. Maybe desited?

Of course, most SREs are in a pager duty rotation.

I wrote a "How to Set up your Pager" webpage for the Google Docs SRE team, including how have each page be sent via text, email, and robocall. (I did not to like drop pages!) The SRE-wide pager infrastructure team published my page as canonical.?("Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." ¡ª?Oscar Wilde)?

(Pro Tip: Use a smartphone, not an actual Pager. Cell phone networks are way more robust, even back in 2007!)?

Maybe SREs are just paged out. :-)

-ahd-
Re: SRE

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:09 AM, Tony Harminc wrote:

There are lists out there along the lines of "If priests are defrocked and lawyers are disbarred, then..." electricians are delighted, cowboys are deranged, models are deposed, and so on. So I imagine programmers are decoded (or deprogrammed) but I'm not sure about SREs. Engineers are derailed (or detrained), but that's a different kind of engineer. Maybe desited?

No, we revert to our native form: BOFH

-ahd-
Re: SRE

 

And fathers? Desired? :D


On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 2:09?PM Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 at 11:07, Drew Derbyshire <swhobbit@...> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 11:33 AM, Ross Patterson wrote:
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 13:50 Fish Fish <david.b.trout@...> wrote:
> Drew Derbyshire
> Software Hobbit (SRE Emeritus)

See?; while at Google I was in?Ben Treynor's organization for five years.?

All that is getting to be a long time ago.

I use "SRE Emeritus" because "Defrocked SRE" sounds so dirty ¡­?

There are lists out there along the lines of "If priests are defrocked and lawyers are disbarred, then..." electricians are delighted, cowboys are deranged, models are deposed, and so on. So I imagine programmers are decoded (or deprogrammed) but I'm not sure about SREs. Engineers are derailed (or detrained), but that's a different kind of engineer. Maybe desited?

Tony H.
Re: SRE

 

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 at 11:07, Drew Derbyshire <swhobbit@...> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 11:33 AM, Ross Patterson wrote:
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 13:50 Fish Fish <david.b.trout@...> wrote:
> Drew Derbyshire
> Software Hobbit (SRE Emeritus)

See?; while at Google I was in?Ben Treynor's organization for five years.?

All that is getting to be a long time ago.

I use "SRE Emeritus" because "Defrocked SRE" sounds so dirty ¡­?

There are lists out there along the lines of "If priests are defrocked and lawyers are disbarred, then..." electricians are delighted, cowboys are deranged, models are deposed, and so on. So I imagine programmers are decoded (or deprogrammed) but I'm not sure about SREs. Engineers are derailed (or detrained), but that's a different kind of engineer. Maybe desited?

Tony H.
Re: SRE

 

On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 11:33 AM, Ross Patterson wrote:
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 13:50 Fish Fish <david.b.trout@...> wrote:
> Drew Derbyshire
> Software Hobbit (SRE Emeritus)

See?; while at Google I was in?Ben Treynor's organization for five years.?

All that is getting to be a long time ago.

I use "SRE Emeritus" because "Defrocked SRE" sounds so dirty ¡­?

-ahd-
Re: VM/370 CE Assembler F, Assembler XF

 

On Tue, 23 Jan 2024 at 12:14, Drew Derbyshire <swhobbit@...> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 07:11 PM, Tony Harminc wrote:
Assembler F and XF are indeed completely different programs. For whatever reasons, IBM appears to have written XF to the same specs as F, but from scratch. There are a few minor new features, and the code is reentrant (whoop-de-do), but that's it. That notwithstanding that the vastly superior Assembler H already existed.

Remember, the suffixes for various products is not based on function level but how much (real) memory it needed; this was an era when the IBM S/360 65 maxed out at 1 MB core of fast core.? Even the S/370 model 165 was originally offered with only up to 3 MB of core.?

Yes, but...

(The way Hercules users can run MVT on a uniprocessor with 16 MB of cheap real memory was a fantasy in 1971.)

Indeed. Only once in my life did I run on a real machine with 16 MB.. That was a 168MP at an IBM site when the university I worked at had a fire, and no DR plan. But all we got was a 2MB virtual machine to match our 165.

Quoting Wikipedia:

Between 1966 and 1968, IBM offered several FORTRAN IV compilers for its System/360, each named by letters that indicated the minimum amount of memory the compiler needed to run. The letters (F, G, H) matched the codes used with System/360 model numbers to indicate memory size, each letter increment being a factor of two larger:?

  • 1966 : FORTRAN IV F for DOS/360 (64K bytes)
  • 1966 : FORTRAN IV G for OS/360 (128K bytes)
  • 1968 : FORTRAN IV H for OS/360 (256K bytes)
Function was certainly related to how much memory was needed, but (re)writing an F level component when the H component existed made perfect sense if the F level component needed a quarter of the??(expensive)?memory.

Yes, but...

As has been pointed out in this thread, and - looking back - as early as 2007 on the Hercules lists - ASM H didn't follow that scheme for at least two reasons:

Waterloo's ASMG already existed, and it would've been beyond bizarre for IBM to come out with an "Assembler G" program product that competed with the "real" (and free) ASMG that was already in wide use.

ASM H is structured very differently from the IBM compilers of the day, including both ASM F and XF. ASM H *can* use a lot of main storage, and doesn't even need a work file if there is enough of it. But if you do give it a work file it effectively pages its data to it, and can get by in very little main storage. So the "design points" like F, G, and H are not so relevant to this kind of design.

The older assemblers, in contrast, always use three work files - each for a different kind of data.? Adding main storage beyond a certain fairly low point won't make them run faster or reduce the size of the work files, and adding more work file space won't reduce the memory needed beyond a certain point. In other words each is a separate kind of resource.

There are many many comments on these lists over the years on the various assemblers - my own first contribution seems to be from 2005, and that about where my email archive starts, so they may go back further. Maybe someone should consolidate them all for "convenience".
Weird but true.?

No, just pragmatic.

Yes, but...? :-)

Tony H.

Re: VM/370 CE Assembler F, Assembler XF

 

Ross Patterson wrote:
Fish wrote:

Drew Derbyshire
Software Hobbit (SRE Emeritus)
Ross Patterson
VMER emeritus
I'm curious: what's an "SRE" or "VMER"? :)

In assuming Drew, like me later in my career, was called
a "Site Reliability Engineer".
Ah. I wasn't familiar with that title. I've heard of CE (Customer Engineer) and SE (Systems Engineer), but not SRE. Thanks.


As to VMer, well, I spent 20 years or so working on VM/CMS
systems, and once led the VM activities at SHARE.
Cool! Thanks for the education. Appreciated.

So I guess at this point I should probably say, "Ah. I see. Sorry for the intrusion. Please carry on then."

:)

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...
Re: VM/370 CE Assembler F, Assembler XF

 

On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 13:50 Fish Fish <david.b.trout@...> wrote:
> Drew Derbyshire
> Software Hobbit (SRE Emeritus)

> Ross Patterson
> VMER emeritus

I'm curious: what's an "SRE" or "VMER"? :)

In assuming Drew, like me later in my career, was called a "Site Reliability Engineer".? As to VMer, well, I spent 20 years or so working on VM/CMS systems, and once led the VM activities at SHARE.

Ross
Re: VM/370 CE Assembler F, Assembler XF

 

Drew Derbyshire
Software Hobbit (SRE Emeritus)
Ross Patterson
VMER emeritus
I'm curious: what's an "SRE" or "VMER"? :)

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Guru Emeritus
Re: VM/370 CE Assembler F, Assembler XF

 

On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 12:14 Drew Derbyshire <swhobbit@...> wrote:

Remember, the suffixes for various products is not based on function level but how much (real) memory?

That was true up to a point.? FORTRAN IV, as you note, had F, G, and H versions, which differed both in function and in required memory (and in overlay structure - remember overlays?).? But after a while, it became primarily a functional designation.? PL/I X, for example, was dramatically higher function than PL/I F, and could reasonably have been described as a new version of the language.? Waterloo's Asm G and SLAC's Assembler H used the "level" to indicate "newer and higher function", not "more RAM-hungry".? I vaguely recall using ASMGASM for MVT sysgens because it was smaller and faster.

Ross Patterson?
VMER emeritus?
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