On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:27 PM, adriansutherland67 wrote:

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:08 PM, Bob Polmanter wrote:

If you are having a lot of paging,

We are always going to have some paging aren't we (a real question) with only 16mb of physical storage and CMS machines configured for 16mb of storage ...

On the standard 6-pack 1.3 beta - what background users should/could I log off (if any)?

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:08 PM, Bob Polmanter wrote:

If you are having a lot of paging,

We are always going to have some paging aren't we (a real question) with only 16mb of physical storage and CMS machines configured for 16mb of storage ...

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:08 PM, Bob Polmanter wrote:

By far the largest benefit and biggest-bang-for-the-buck would be to turn on ECPS:VM? (ECPSVM YES in your Hercules configuration).? The benefit here is way better than anything AP-mode will provide.? A couple of important bugs were fixed in ECPS:VM Hercules support in Hercules 3.13, and if you are running any of the Hyperion releases ECPS:VM support was enhanced to provide even greater benefits.

Thanks Bob - So actually should I use the latest Hyperion release, in any case? Not sure what ECPS:VM is (Enhances Scheduling - but ...) but perhaps I don't want to!??

Anyway - no changes needed to CP? Just turn it on in Hercules?

Thanks Dave

For memory paging - I was wondering if IBM had a paging memory device (clearly not - thanks). Therefore (1) I am going to go ahead with experimenting with a small DASD drive for paging.

And (2) I will also try and get VM/370 configured for 2 CPUs (what is?AP or MP, and which should I try?). Appreciate the point that CMS uses only one but if it means we get some additional boost by having any disconnected machines on another CPU - well well and good. But my expectation is minimal improvement! I know that Hercules uses other threads for IO stuff, which is good.

Any hints / config details / help would be appreciated!

Adrian

PS - my motivation is just to get what we can from the configuration / tools we have - not change the world if that makes sense. And yeah - it is already faster than it would have been back in the 80s!!

Adrian,

1. Can we up the number of CPU cores emulated - I know the answer if yes but will VM/370 use it? Do we need to change CP settings, and how? I suggest we try and target 4 given the state of typical PC/Server/Container configurations. I appreciate VM/370 (ans specifically CMS) might not be getting too much benefit but hey why not press the Sport button anyway!

VM/370 does support 2 CPUs in the configuration as an attached processor (called AP-mode).? However, it is of limited value, especially in a single-user environment that most of us have when running under Hercules.? The second processor cannot do any i/o.? Timing tests under Hercules have shown that things run slower in AP-mode due to the overhead of CP managing the second processor (who gets dispatched on it, maintaining dual sets of user page tables, and rescheduling i/o operations back to the main processor).? In a real multi-user system that was common back in the day, AP-mode probably provided benefits because there was enough CPU-bound activity that the attached processor could capitalize on.

Further, when in AP-mode, ECPS:VM must be turned off.

By far the largest benefit and biggest-bang-for-the-buck would be to turn on ECPS:VM? (ECPSVM YES in your Hercules configuration).? The benefit here is way better than anything AP-mode will provide.? A couple of important bugs were fixed in ECPS:VM Hercules support in Hercules 3.13, and if you are running any of the Hyperion releases ECPS:VM support was enhanced to provide even greater benefits.

2. Can we provide more S/370 Storage (i.e. RAM). Appreciate the 24bit limit but does VM370 support any paging memory devices? Assume some CP configuration, if this is possible at all?

No.? Nothing in this area is available.

3. What DASD device does the Six Pack configuration use for paging? Can we isolate this feature to one appropriately sized DASD device? Because if we did we could run it uncompressed, no shadow, and on a RAM disk. If it was an appropriate size (50-100MB) we could run it in non-pageable linux RAM for maximum performance, if it was bigger we would probably be obliged to put it in pageable RAM.

In VM/370, the paging space and the spool space are shared.? In SixPack, this is 3350 devices.? If one wanted, you could certainly format an empty 3350 or a 3380 (if running Sixpack 1.3) volume and have a dedicated page/spool volume, and make that uncompressed and so forth.? You'd have to remove the page/spool space on the other Sixpack volumes by using the format/allocate program.? This would need to be done with some care.

If you are having a lot of paging, the best thing would be to try to reduce it rather than come up with a scheme to page faster.? The fastest page i/o is the one you never do.? Reduce dependency on high level languages which produce huge working sets and large module sizes (especially from compilers back in the day).? Write more assembler code.? Don't logon extra virtual machines that you might not be using, e.g., CPWATCH, RSCS, etc.

4. I note that the change log for Six Pack supports new DASD devices? Is there an optimisation opportunity here?

I can't see how, other than the possibility mentioned above of using a dedicated 3380 device for paging and spooling and making it uncompressed dasd in Hercules.? I'm personally skeptical that this would provide more than a scant 1-2% improvement, but that is just a gut feel and I have no hard numbers to back it up.? I just don't think it is worth the trouble for what little would be gained.

Regards,
Bob

I wrote:

I don't suppose that any one can help me. I want to stop calling the
Six-Pack builds "beta" and just number them say 1.3.1, 1.3.2, etc.

Any way I can fix most things but I can't figure out how to get the "query
cplevel" to return an extra digit.

Any thoughts any one?

From a quick look around, it seems like "query cplevel" was added by CP mod
HRC019DK and it's output modified by HRC100DK and HRC200DK. There is a
QCPBLOK COPY added to DMKHRC MACLIB which may be pertinent.

I failed to notice the abomination that is HRC370DK :-(

If you want to continue with the same sort of awfulness, I think you need
something like this mod to DMKCPI:

./ R 02143300 $ 02143310
CPIWHO DC C'x.x.x: '
./ R 02287200 $ 02287210
MVC CPIWHO(5),12(R1)

and this mod to DMKCPE:

./ R 00011060 $ 00011061
DC CL5'1.3.2' "sixpack" version number


However, I have to question if QUERY CPLEVEL is the right place to put this
information seeing as a Sixpack distribution is really composed of a certain
level of CP features, a certain level of CMS features and a bunch of compilers
and applications while QUERY CPLEVEL only describes one aspect of this.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of adriansutherland67
Sent: 29 January 2020 11:30
To: [email protected]
Subject: [h390-vm] VM/370 Hercules Optimisation

Optimisation questions to improve VM/370 performance on Hercules:

Its already much faster than my P390....

1. Can we up the number of CPU cores emulated - I know the answer if yes but will VM/370 use it? Do we need to change CP settings, and how? I suggest we try and target 4 given the state of typical PC/Server/Container configurations. I appreciate VM/370 >(ans specifically CMS) might not be getting too much benefit but hey why not press the Sport button anyway!

VM/370 only support two as an AP or MP but that’s it. An individual user can only ever use one. On real hardware the extra work in keeping things in sync slows things
Hercules recommends dedicating one for the IO thread, so on a 4-core box max is only three.

2. Can we provide more S/370 Storage (i.e. RAM). Appreciate the 24bit limit but does VM370 support any paging memory devices? Assume some CP configuration, if this is possible at all?

Not as far as I know. Paul has VM/380 but I don't think it does what you want.

3. What DASD device does the Six Pack configuration use for paging? Can we isolate this feature to one appropriately sized DASD device? Because if we did we could run it uncompressed, no shadow, and on a RAM disk.
If it was an appropriate size (50-100MB) we could run it in non-pageable linux RAM for maximum performance, if it was bigger we would probably be obliged to put it in pageable RAM.

That’s possible. The devices used for paging are defined in DMKRIO. If you use a small old DASD type such as 3310 (60Mbytes) or 3330 (200Mbytes) but in practice I don't think you get much improvement because Linux/Windows and Hercules cache the disk IO. If you have enough cores Hercules runs the IO thread in a separate core.

4. I note that the change log for Six Pack supports new DASD devices? Is there an optimisation opportunity here?

Well they are bigger, but I don't think it makes much difference. Later drives use multiple heads to improve performance so one physical 3380 looked like four drives to VM.
Hercules and VM/370 simply sees four drives.

5. For info - I am going to do some speed tests (building CMSLIB) with all the six DASD devices, still compressed but with no shadow, running of tmpfs (i.e. on pageable RAM).
Context: This is for containers (cattle not pets) so I am not worried about losing data if the the container is shot dead. I'll just start a new one. However the timing difference might be interesting for others.

If you can take a look at CPWATCH (DIAL CPWATCH) from a 3270 console to see where VM things the delays are..

Thanks

A

Dave

Optimisation questions to improve VM/370 performance on Hercules:

1. Can we up the number of CPU cores emulated - I know the answer if yes but will VM/370 use it? Do we need to change CP settings, and how? I suggest we try and target 4 given the state of typical PC/Server/Container configurations. I appreciate VM/370 (ans specifically CMS) might not be getting too much benefit but hey why not press the Sport button anyway!

2. Can we provide more S/370 Storage (i.e. RAM). Appreciate the 24bit limit but does VM370 support any paging memory devices? Assume some CP configuration, if this is possible at all?

3. What DASD device does the Six Pack configuration use for paging? Can we isolate this feature to one appropriately sized DASD device? Because if we did we could run it uncompressed, no shadow, and on a RAM disk. If it was an appropriate size (50-100MB) we could run it in non-pageable linux RAM for maximum performance, if it was bigger we would probably be obliged to put it in pageable RAM.?

4. I note that the change log for Six Pack supports new DASD devices? Is there an optimisation opportunity here?

5. For info - I am going to do some speed tests (building CMSLIB) with all the six DASD devices, still compressed but with no shadow, running of tmpfs (i.e. on pageable RAM). Context: This is for containers (cattle not pets) so I am not worried about losing data if the the container is shot dead. I'll just start a new one. However the timing difference might be interesting for others.

Thanks

A

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Hi Dave,

Hi Dave,

I don't suppose that any one can help me. I want to stop calling the
Six-Pack builds "beta" and just number them say 1.3.1, 1.3.2, etc.

Any way I can fix most things but I can't figure out how to get the "query
cplevel" to return an extra digit.

Any thoughts any one?

From a quick look around, it seems like "query cplevel" was added by CP mod
HRC019DK and it's output modified by HRC100DK and HRC200DK. There is a
QCPBLOK COPY added to DMKHRC MACLIB which may be pertinent.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

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Dave,
I thought PDF only started round about ESA V2, but earlier manuals were all Book Manager. I get the feeling some of the PDF versions seem to have gone from the Publications web site...
Dave

On 1/21/20 4:32 AM, Dave Wade wrote:

There used to be a few sites with the manuals but they have all
disappeared. Were the ESA era manuals ever available as PDF?

I think they were only ever BOO files. There was once a tool to convert
BOO files to PDF but it seems to have vanished.

I have lots of VM/ESA manuals directly from IBM that are in PDF
format. I can't say that the released them all in that format, but
surely quite a few of them.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

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However there are two different “C” run times, the older PDPCLIB, the newer GCCLIB so if you are building “C” program you may need to change the TXTLIB..

… I will think more about this.

?

... and I'll need to update the 4361 once you ship the new-and-improved version.?

-ahd-

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On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 08:41, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:

Rene,

Should the GCC libraries be removed? Doesn’t the GCC EXEC set the proper TXTLIB depending on which “C” library you are using?

Dave

So the sequence 'fortran', 'load' then 'start' is using dynamic linking then??

disclaimer: This was composed before breakfast -OR- caffeine.? :-)

You need the TXTLIB before the load for a FORTRAN program:

 ipl cms
VM/SP REL 5 05/07/18 15:45
LCML4361: Up 73 days, 17:24:52
 fortg hello
FORTRAN IV (G) COMPILATION COMPLETE.
 load hello
The following names are undefined:
 IBCOM#
Ready(00004); T=0.02/0.06 09:36:15
 start
Execution begins...
DMSITP141T Operation exception occurred at 000042 in routine USER PGM
CMS

And I take it Drew's various 'gen' execs are doing static linking?

I think all the languages do some static linking.? I'm sure FORTRAN does, and loads very little extra at run time (the game wrappers I wrote for the FORTRAN games don't bother to TXTLIB the library) .?

(It may load some error routines ... but I try not have errors. :-))

Note BTW that the GEN* EXECs print out exactly what they are doing.

 id
AHD      AT LCML4361 VIA MIRROR   01/21/20 09:24:20 PST      TUESDAY
 fortg hello
FORTRAN IV (G) COMPILATION COMPLETE.
 genfortg hello
GLOBAL TXTLIB FORTGH
LOAD HELLO  ( CLEAR
GENMOD HELLO
 filedef 6 term
 hello
Hello, world!

-ahd-

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CP, CMS, Rexx/VM, XEDIT, etc. reference manuals specific to that version of VM, for example, all of which do have VM/ESA in their titles.? Similar to the few scanned manuals that bitsavers has for VM/XA.

?

Sure would be nice if some dedicated soul(s) could just post actual IBM-generated PDF’s for VM/ESA (and other ancient and out-of-service IBM software) to bitsavers, but I don’t know what the legal and/or copyright implications would be for such donations when such manuals (most of them anyway) are still distributed by IBM from its own websites.

?

Nope.? Nope.? Nope.

From the IBM site:

Permissions for the use of the publications you have selected for download ("Publications") is granted subject to the following terms and conditions and your indication of acceptance thereof.

Personal Use:?You may reproduce these Publications for your personal, non commercial use provided that all proprietary notices are preserved. You may not distribute, display or make derivative work of these Publications, or any portion thereof, without the express consent of IBM.

Commercial Use:?You may reproduce, distribute and display these Publications solely within your enterprise provided that all proprietary notices are preserved. You may not make derivative works of these Publications, or reproduce, distribute or display these Publications or any portion thereof outside your enterprise, without the express consent of IBM.

Except as expressly granted in this permission, no other permissions, licenses or rights are granted, either express or implied, to the Publications or any information, data, software or other intellectual property contained therein.

IBM reserves the right to withdraw the permissions granted herein whenever, in its discretion, the use of the Publications is detrimental to its interest or, as determined by IBM, the above instructions are not being properly followed.

You may not download, export or re-export this information except in full compliance with all applicable laws and regulations, including all United States export laws and regulations.

I'd let BitSavers stick to the archival business.

-ahd-

Note that if you do with this IBM 4361 @ LCML+L, it has the GENFORTG command to build the module with the correct libraries after you compile.? The full list on the 4361 is:

GENCOBOL
GENFORTG
GENFORTH
GENFORTV
GENGCC
GENPLIF
GENPLIOP

Yes, the 4361 has the newer FORTRAN VS and PL/I Optimizing compilers.

As someone who first really used PL/I (and thus the PL/I Optimizing compiler) under MVS, that latter one matters.?? Pl/I F even didn't have the SELECT statement, for example.

-ahd-

p.s. I have improved versions on my test system, they will wander onto the 4361 in due time.