Posts are getting randomly delayed. If you post something and it
doesn't show up within a few minutes, please give it a while longer
(couple of hours). Its getting confusing seeing multiple variants of
the same posting.

--- In Electronics_101@..., "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:

Posts are getting randomly delayed. If you post something and it
doesn't show up within a few minutes, please give it a while

longer

(couple of hours). Its getting confusing seeing multiple variants

of

the same posting.

Yes, my 6AM posting yesterday morning didn't show up until after
4PM... I learned to be patient a long time ago though, thats why you
dont see multiple posts ;)

You know, between the neutering of the search function and the
(relatively) frequent board problems, I'm thinking its time to start
searching for a new message board home.

The loss of the search was a BIG hit - I used it all the time in
several groups.

--- In Electronics_101@..., "ghidera2000"
<ghidera2000@y...> wrote:
...

You know, between the neutering of the search function and the
(relatively) frequent board problems, I'm thinking its time to

start

searching for a new message board home.

The loss of the search was a BIG hit - I used it all the time in
several groups.

I am with you on that one. I would love it if there was a similar
site with a decent search and would be there in a flash.

If anyone is interested in the work and expense involved in hosting it
ourselves, we can do what Ian Purdie (of )
has done, and host our own mailing list with the free, GNU-licensed Mailman
software ( ).

No, I'm no expert on its use, nor have I ever been a webmaster before, but I
do have a brain in my skull (at least according to the doctor who delivered
me), and generally speaking there are at least a few moderately intelligent
folks on this list (moderators excepted, of course ;o) ) and between us all
we should be able to figure out how to use it.

Then all we would have to worry about would be paying for server space
somewhere, and good server space is pretty cheap if spread around amongst
1800 of us. $35 or $40 per month would translate to only two cents per
member per month. Even if only ten percent of our current members
subscribed to the new site, that would be pennies per month. Not too
shabby, and we could build a REAL website, not like the silly little thing
we get with those yahoos...um, sorry. You know what I mean.

Am I being silly, or is this a workable idea?

-DM

Actually, I was contemplating paying for a host myself. I was just
about to start looking for hosts that allow mailing lists and file
areas 8)

$35-$40 a month isn't a big deal to me compared to the huge amount of
help I get on this list.

If anyone knows a good *RELIABLE* website hosting company, I'd love
to get a link.

--- In Electronics_101@..., "dangermouse"
<dangermouse1956@g...> wrote:

If anyone is interested in the work and expense involved in hosting

it

ourselves, we can do what Ian Purdie (of

tutorials.com/ )

has done, and host our own mailing list with the free, GNU-licensed

Mailman

software ( ).

No, I'm no expert on its use, nor have I ever been a webmaster

before, but I

do have a brain in my skull (at least according to the doctor who

delivered

me), and generally speaking there are at least a few moderately

intelligent

folks on this list (moderators excepted, of course ;o) ) and

between us all

we should be able to figure out how to use it.

Then all we would have to worry about would be paying for server

space

somewhere, and good server space is pretty cheap if spread around

amongst

1800 of us. $35 or $40 per month would translate to only two cents

per

member per month. Even if only ten percent of our current members
subscribed to the new site, that would be pennies per month. Not

too

shabby, and we could build a REAL website, not like the silly

little thing

we get with those yahoos...um, sorry. You know what I mean.

Am I being silly, or is this a workable idea?

-DM

If you want my 2 cent:

Get a decent webspace, for archives and file storage,
and switch the list to usenet news.
but then, there are several lists like this available as usenet newsgroups....

Let's see if yahoo doesn't sort out those things in the next few days
before considering any big steps...

to the search problem: get a decent mail software and you can at least
search in the messages since you joined.


ST

I have used a few different lists and I really reallly reallly like
the flat sheet format of the yahoo list. and, I really really
really dislike the seperate threads of other lists.


Yahoo is going to have to mess up a lot before I'll switch.


Also, I have yet to have a problem, post it to the list and get a
direct answer back within seconds. sometimes it takes hours before
somone in some part of the world sees my post and answers. I don't
care if yahoo delays my post for an hour.

Dave





--- In Electronics_101@..., Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

If you want my 2 cent:

Get a decent webspace, for archives and file storage,
and switch the list to usenet news.
but then, there are several lists like this available as usenet
newsgroups....

Let's see if yahoo doesn't sort out those things in the next few

days

before considering any big steps...

to the search problem: get a decent mail software and you can at

least

search in the messages since you joined.


ST



On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:40:36 -0400, dangermouse

<dangermouse1956@g...>

wrote:

If anyone is interested in the work and expense involved in

hosting it

ourselves, we can do what Ian Purdie (of
)
has done, and host our own mailing list with the free, GNU-

licensed

Mailman
software ( ).

No, I'm no expert on its use, nor have I ever been a webmaster

before,

but I
do have a brain in my skull (at least according to the doctor who
delivered
me), and generally speaking there are at least a few moderately
intelligent
folks on this list (moderators excepted, of course ;o) ) and

between us

all
we should be able to figure out how to use it.

Then all we would have to worry about would be paying for server

space

somewhere, and good server space is pretty cheap if spread

around

amongst
1800 of us. $35 or $40 per month would translate to only two

cents per

member per month. Even if only ten percent of our current members
subscribed to the new site, that would be pennies per month. Not

too

shabby, and we could build a REAL website, not like the silly

little

thing
we get with those yahoos...um, sorry. You know what I mean.

Am I being silly, or is this a workable idea?

--- In Electronics_101@..., "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:

--- In Electronics_101@..., "ghidera2000"
<ghidera2000@y...> wrote:
...

You know, between the neutering of the search function and the
(relatively) frequent board problems, I'm thinking its time to

start

searching for a new message board home.

The loss of the search was a BIG hit - I used it all the time in
several groups.

I am with you on that one. I would love it if there was a similar
site with a decent search and would be there in a flash.

I'm a web developer, I do a lot of php programming and stuff. would
anyone like to team up with me to start a forum site? I host and help
out with the schematicaforfree site, so we could affiliate with them.
they get about 1000 unique visitors each day. we could either use a
forum like phpbb, or vbulletin or something, or I could write one for
the site.

Matt

That's exactly the point.
nobody (ok maybe only i) want's a forum like all the other web forums.
yahoo is so convenient to use, in a forum you never read that much of the threads,
and you do not answer that often. usenet is also unconvenient, but i think
this is more due to the users and rules than the system itself.

The concept of the maillist is ideal in my opinion, it is easy to use and
you have local archive storage included..
I do prefer the yahoo mailgroup over any other form of forum.

I think there would be software available to make a maillist that
can be used exactly like the yahoo mailgroups, but i see no need if yahoo
recovers and will work normally again.....

But if it continues to be that bad (last 2 days or so) i would
appreciate a other forum very much.
It is true there are built-in answering delays because of different
time-zones etc. but this is not the problem. the problem is that the messages
do not appear within several minutes or so. There are answers written to questions
that are already answered long ago, unneccesary double answers etc.
For me personally the last days were very unconvenient, i don't know
by now if it is only yahoo or also my mailprovider going crazy but i have
definitely lost some posts that appear on the web interface.
I do think it would be a heavy blow to all the lists if the quality continues
to be that bad.

I suggest we wait and see what happens, next week it may be ok again.
But i would say the "alternatives talk" is not off topic.

If some of the experts want to check the possibilites i suggest go and look
for mailgroup solutions, it is what all the members seem to like.

Let's hope it gets better soon..

ST

开云体育

Actually, you beat me to the punch of suggesting a web-forum solution such
as VBulletin, which I thought of (typically) AFTER hitting the <send>
button. I belong to two of those, although NOT in any sort of
administrative capacity. But both you and ST have good points: webforums
are everywhere, and NNTP--Usenet--has been around for thousands of years.
Hundreds, anyway. And it's as simple as a text file. Why reinvent the
wheel? Because we've all forgotten how to drive a stick? (Forgive the bad
analogy!)

If I may be so bold as to be, well, bold <ahem>, perhaps we have all (myself
generously included) grown too accustomed to being patronized by entities
such as Yahoo. We have an interest in keeping things simple, with an
"automatic transmission," and they have an interest in keeping us captive
audience to their ads. How convenient. Riiiight.

Maybe it's time to think differently. Do any of you guys remember the
original eGroups, just a few years ago, when things really seemed to run
well? For that matter, (to strain an already overtaxed analogy) did any of
us ever used to tune up our own cars?

On one hand, I'm starting to scare myself at how radical I'm sounding. But
on the other hand...

<Channelling Braveheart:--"FREEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMM!!!!">

Oops. I seem to have misplaced my blue facepaint.

If anything I have said is flameworthy, flame away.

-DM

--- In Electronics_101@..., Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

That's exactly the point.
nobody (ok maybe only i) want's a forum like all the other web

forums.

yahoo is so convenient to use, in a forum you never read that much

of the

threads,
and you do not answer that often. usenet is also unconvenient, but

i think

this is more due to the users and rules than the system itself.

The concept of the maillist is ideal in my opinion, it is easy to

use and

you have local archive storage included..

I agree. I prefer not to get mail and would rather just read on the
yahoo website (which is why the search neutering is such a problem
for me).

Any replacement would have to include both web-interface and mailing
list capabilities. A search option is a must, the more robust the
better. File area is a must as well of course ;)

I also agree usenet is a bad choice, too many auto-spammers.

--- In Electronics_101@..., "dangermouse"
<dangermouse1956@g...> wrote:

Actually, you beat me to the punch of suggesting a web-forum

solution such

as VBulletin, which I thought of (typically) AFTER hitting the

<send>

button. I belong to two of those, although NOT in any sort of
administrative capacity. But both you and ST have good points:

webforums

are everywhere, and NNTP--Usenet--has been around for thousands of

years.

Hundreds, anyway. And it's as simple as a text file. Why reinvent

the

wheel? Because we've all forgotten how to drive a stick? (Forgive

the bad

analogy!)

If I may be so bold as to be, well, bold <ahem>, perhaps we have

all (myself

generously included) grown too accustomed to being patronized by

entities

such as Yahoo. We have an interest in keeping things simple, with

an

"automatic transmission," and they have an interest in keeping us

captive

audience to their ads. How convenient. Riiiight.

Maybe it's time to think differently. Do any of you guys remember

the

original eGroups, just a few years ago, when things really seemed

to run

well? For that matter, (to strain an already overtaxed analogy)

did any of

us ever used to tune up our own cars?

On one hand, I'm starting to scare myself at how radical I'm

sounding. But

on the other hand...

<Channelling Braveheart:--"FREEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMM!!!!">

Oops. I seem to have misplaced my blue facepaint.

If anything I have said is flameworthy, flame away.

-DM

I think I could write a flat threaded forum with the mailing list
type feature, and make it pretty much the same style as yahoo groups,
but a different site design of course, and not all the ads.

Matt

On one hand, I'm starting to scare myself at how radical I'm

sounding. But

on the other hand...

<Channelling Braveheart:--"FREEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMM!!!!">

Oops. I seem to have misplaced my blue facepaint.

If anything I have said is flameworthy, flame away.

-DM

----- Original Message -----

Without the blue face paint it's The Patriot; same soundtrack too,
Uhg!, ack!, splurt!, die, die, die.

A delay of a few hours is fine by me. I like reading and replying to
the list on the web. I do not even have an email client on my machine.

The search function still works fine, I just tried and it did great.
You do have to hit 'Next' to make it through the whole archive. It's
not terrible. Just start your search from 'Home' and not 'Messages'.
From 'Home' it starts the search over the entire archive, from
'Messages' it only searches the ones visible. At least I think that's
the way it was working.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:26:45 EDT, <JanRwl@...> wrote:

If you post something and it doesn't show up within a few minutes

To WHOM???

I think that were my words - not sure, so i will answer.

I guess you mean he is on te other side of the world and it does not matter.
what matters is that you can not see wich answers were written between the time of
posting the question and the question arriving you. that leads to people answering
multiple times (which is a waste of time) but also worse to answers with wrong assumptions
that should long have been corrected etc.
If one wants to correct anoter answer or adds details this gets even more compicated
and slow. it is like playing chess over snail mail. i wouldn't have the patience.

didn't you notice that in the last days there was way more chaos than normal?

ST

Sorry, danger, We will just have to disagree that the search function
is ok.

Having to hit next,next,next,next,next,next... to get through a large
message base is enough to make me only use it when I've completely
given up on other avenues. In that sense, they have succeeded. I
dont know of another search engine that makes you do that. suppose
google did that? They would dry up and blow away.

Its really a shame that they felt the need to put a barrier up to
finding information. AV science's forum SW has a much smarter way to
reducing search overhead - they make you select the "depth" of
search. You can search the whole enchilada but you have to select
it. Default is a "light" search. Other search engines use search
ranges (like dates) to limit search load. It doesn't bother me to
have to select search parameters at the beginning but I shouldn't
have to mother the search along. I just seems to be an artificial
and contrived way to minimize use while being able to claim the
feature.

--- In Electronics_101@..., "manifold" <manifold_1@y...>
wrote:

On one hand, I'm starting to scare myself at how radical I'm

sounding. But

on the other hand...

<Channelling Braveheart:--"FREEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMM!!!!">

Oops. I seem to have misplaced my blue facepaint.

If anything I have said is flameworthy, flame away.

-DM

----- Original Message -----

Without the blue face paint it's The Patriot; same soundtrack too,
Uhg!, ack!, splurt!, die, die, die.

A delay of a few hours is fine by me. I like reading and replying to
the list on the web. I do not even have an email client on my

machine.

The search function still works fine, I just tried and it did great.
You do have to hit 'Next' to make it through the whole archive. It's
not terrible. Just start your search from 'Home' and not 'Messages'.
From 'Home' it starts the search over the entire archive, from
'Messages' it only searches the ones visible. At least I think

that's

the way it was working.

I agree, the online search is useless.
However i have all messages stored in the email software.
(only since i joined, which is not long in this group)
I do like the search function of the mail software (opera) much more than any
online search.

There is also some software which allows you to download the whole archive and store
it locally, one would assume it has a search feature (hopefully more than a "on the package feature").
There was no free software when i last checked (maybe 6 months or a year ago) but there mey be
now, or you might even be prepared to pay for it.

ST

开云体育

--- In Electronics_101@..., "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:

Sorry, danger, We will just have to disagree that the search

function

is ok.

Actually, Danger is correct. I didn't know it before but, if you
search from the home page (the one showing the posts each month and
the latest 4-5 messages), it works identically to the way it did
before. Not to say that it was ever great, but at least I can search
as well as I did prior to the search changes.

Its only when you're looking at the message list pages that the
search is buggered.

I get a search that goes back a screenfull of messages or 1 month of
postings - from the home (showing the 4 messages). It still
shows "next". I wonder why you dont get that?

--- In Electronics_101@..., "ghidera2000"
<ghidera2000@y...> wrote:

--- In Electronics_101@..., "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:

Sorry, danger, We will just have to disagree that the search

function

is ok.

Actually, Danger is correct. I didn't know it before but, if you
search from the home page (the one showing the posts each month and
the latest 4-5 messages), it works identically to the way it did
before. Not to say that it was ever great, but at least I can

search

as well as I did prior to the search changes.

Its only when you're looking at the message list pages that the
search is buggered.