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How limitting do you think a scope would be if it were limitted to 35 volts?
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Stefan Trethan
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 21:10:18 +0200, lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
Ok, then maybe you should get the USB scope. Because that is working a thousand times better than a soundcard - litterally, 50Msps instead of 50ksps. Working a million times better than the HP scope seems a good deal ;-) ST |
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You really can't go too wrong with a used Tektronix scope. The two biggest problems I see when they come in for repair are: 1) dirty cam switches (these were used mainly in 5000 and 7000 series), and 2) bad caps in the supply. I've found a couple of 2215/2225/2235 series with bad PWM ICs in the supply but they are $0.80 parts that are readily available through Mouser. So even if something does go wrong with a Tek scope it is usually easily repaired.
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The drawback with Tektronix equipment though is that they only support thier products for a few years so if one of the more obscure components go bad or a mechanical part breaks that is specific to that model it can be difficult to impossible to get the part. For example thier old curve tracers are pretty much impossible to find parts for anymore. ----- Original Message -----
From: lcdpublishing To: Electronics_101@... Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 11:51 AM Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: How limitting do you think a scope would be if it were limitted to 35 volts? Darn it, I really have to think this all through very carefully. For my imediate needs, I am 98.322544321% sure that PC based scope would work for me - short term. BUT, at $300.00, I am nearing the price of a real and new scope from BK or other affordable brand name. $300.00 should buy me a TEK, analog, but I am so gun shy about buying another used scope. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR something else to drive me insane :-( Thanks guys - I will keep saving my pennies for a while till I figure something out. Chris |
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This kind of neat. I can shut down the scope, re-start it and the
traces are showing the same as before. I don't have to push every button on the computer like I had to do with my "real" scope ;-) It still isn't the greatest thing, but it's a heck of a lot more "Trusty" than what I had. The one problem with this type of scope is accurately calibrating the voltage (vertical) scale. These things (SOundcard versions) cannot measure a steady DC voltage - it must be alternating to different levels and at some magical, Minimum frequency. I am digging it! Especially the price for the ones I have ;-) Chris --- In Electronics_101@..., "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...> wrote: respect for betterthese sound card scopes - so far it's working a thousand times seenthan my HP scope has - not that HP scopes are bad, mine is just working amuch better days! thousand times better than a soundcard - litterally, 50Mspsinstead of 50ksps. Working a million times better than the HP scope seems agood deal ;-) |
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Roy J. Tellason
On Saturday 07 October 2006 03:54 pm, lcdpublishing wrote:
The one problem with this type of scope is accurately calibratingThere's a way to get around that, particularly if you have a spare sound card to mess with. You remove the coupling capacitors that are blocking the DC from the input connector, and jumper the pads... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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Shawn Upton
What about an LM231? Voltage to frequency converter.
You could then measure DC levels on the computer Hmm, that'd be a bit strange: trying to measure a changing voltage by correlating the frequency... Waay too math to convert back to something that looks like "normal" signal. But sounds like a good senior design project for those guys who come on here once in a while looking for one: take a signal with a DC component and some known BW of AC signal (think TTL 1kHz square wave), and measure that DC and AC component on a soundcard (ie, recover on the PC the high/low level and some portion of the edges too, inspite of the AC coupling of the soundcard). Shawn Shawn Upton, KB1CKT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around |
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Which soundcard scope are you toying with? I've been looking for a free soudcard based scope program to try and make a little PC bsed curve tracer for trouble shooting.
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----- Original Message -----
From: lcdpublishing To: Electronics_101@... Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 3:54 PM Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: How limitting do you think a scope would be if it were limitted to 35 volts? This kind of neat. I can shut down the scope, re-start it and the traces are showing the same as before. I don't have to push every button on the computer like I had to do with my "real" scope ;-) It still isn't the greatest thing, but it's a heck of a lot more "Trusty" than what I had. The one problem with this type of scope is accurately calibrating the voltage (vertical) scale. These things (SOundcard versions) cannot measure a steady DC voltage - it must be alternating to different levels and at some magical, Minimum frequency. I am digging it! Especially the price for the ones I have ;-) Chris --- In Electronics_101@..., "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...> wrote: > > On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 21:10:18 +0200, lcdpublishing > <lcdpublishing@...> wrote: > > > > > More tinkering with this to do, but I have quickly gained respect for > > these sound card scopes - so far it's working a thousand times better > > than my HP scope has - not that HP scopes are bad, mine is just seen > > much better days! > > Chris > > > Ok, then maybe you should get the USB scope. Because that is working a > thousand times better than a soundcard - litterally, 50Msps instead of > 50ksps. Working a million times better than the HP scope seems a good deal > ;-) > > ST > |
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Hmmm, that sounds neat. I will have to look through my box of
computer "Guts" and see if I have an old card. Chances are good though they would be surface mount though wouldn't they? Chris --- In Electronics_101@..., "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason@...> wrote: spare sound card to mess with. You remove the coupling capacitors that areblocking the DC from the input connector, and jumper the pads...can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The PuppetMasters" -lies. --James M Dakin |
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The one I am working with the most right now is the free one from
Virtins. Scroll all the way down to the bottom where they list the "OLD VERSIONS". I am using V2.0. The biggest reason I like this one is that it works full screen Chris --- In Electronics_101@..., <william.kroyer@...> wrote: a free soudcard based scope program to try and make a little PC bsed curve tracer for trouble shooting. scope would be if it were limitted to 35 volts? the traces are showing the same as before. I don't have to pushevery button on the computer like I had to do with my "real" scope ;-)calibrating the voltage (vertical) scale. These things (SOundcard versions)times betterjust seena good deal |
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--- In Electronics_101@..., "lcdpublishing"
<lcdpublishing@...> wrote: Chris, If you decide to jumper the input capacitors on your sound card, you put your computer at significant risk. In fact, I think I, personally, would pass on the sound card thing altogether: my computer is too important to leave to luck (like my not sampling the line voltage). It might be possible to blow out the input capacitors pretty easy. Who knows, they might short through rather than blowing open. In the scheme of things, that Vellman digital scope isn't all that expensive. If you don't like it, sell it on eBay for half, or whatever. Or, put some money with it and look at the BN310 at www.bitscope.com Richard |
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Great find! Should be just what I need for my soundcard curve tracer.
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----- Original Message -----
From: lcdpublishing To: Electronics_101@... Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: How limitting do you think a scope would be if it were limitted to 35 volts? The one I am working with the most right now is the free one from Virtins. Scroll all the way down to the bottom where they list the "OLD VERSIONS". I am using V2.0. The biggest reason I like this one is that it works full screen Chris --- In Electronics_101@..., <william.kroyer@...> wrote: > > Which soundcard scope are you toying with? I've been looking for a free soudcard based scope program to try and make a little PC bsed curve tracer for trouble shooting. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lcdpublishing > To: Electronics_101@... > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 3:54 PM > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: How limitting do you think a scope would be if it were limitted to 35 volts? > > > This kind of neat. I can shut down the scope, re-start it and the > traces are showing the same as before. I don't have to push every > button on the computer like I had to do with my "real" scope ;-) > > It still isn't the greatest thing, but it's a heck of a lot > more "Trusty" than what I had. > > The one problem with this type of scope is accurately calibrating > the voltage (vertical) scale. These things (SOundcard versions) > cannot measure a steady DC voltage - it must be alternating to > different levels and at some magical, Minimum frequency. > > I am digging it! Especially the price for the ones I have ;-) > > Chris > > --- In Electronics_101@..., "Stefan Trethan" > <stefan_trethan@> wrote: > > > > On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 21:10:18 +0200, lcdpublishing > > <lcdpublishing@> wrote: > > > > > > > > More tinkering with this to do, but I have quickly gained > respect for > > > these sound card scopes - so far it's working a thousand times > better > > > than my HP scope has - not that HP scopes are bad, mine is just > seen > > > much better days! > > > Chris > > > > > > Ok, then maybe you should get the USB scope. Because that is > working a > > thousand times better than a soundcard - litterally, 50Msps > instead of > > 50ksps. Working a million times better than the HP scope seems a > good deal > > ;-) > > > > ST > > > > > > > > > > |
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Bob Hyland-PMP
--- "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
*snip* Anyway, i think Chris really wants a storage scope (and i would*snip* Once again, I think Stefan hit the spot. Chris indicates that he wants storage / retrieval. As for the software, the advertiement indicates that "a DLL is supplied, which allows you to create your own application." If you have decent programming skills, and the DLL is decent, you can probably make something pretty fancy or specific, if needed. Ultimately, I also want storage in a scope. Like Chris, I do not know if this would be a great help to me, but I believe it would. The "belief" makes it a "must have" feature for my next 'scope. Ultimately, I would like to take some readings over a fairly long period of time (say 20 seconds to 1 minute or more?) and watch the signals coming down the wire over that time period. Then, I will scroll back and forth looking for transients, and trying to analyze these. I s'pose I would have to do this because I do not have the depth of experience of some of you. Thus, what you might instantly understand is a Ground Loop problem or a transient coming across the power supply line might take me days to analyze. I think that storage / retrieval, with the ability to store LOTS of data, would accelerate that analysis. I have been looking at various PC based 'scopes for some time, but have yet to pull the trigger. That day may come soon. Side Questions: - When analyzing a scope, what are the most important specifications to focus on (e.g. sps, bandwidth, dynamic range, time base, etc.) - If you had to put 4 or 5 'scopes through the paces to see which performs the best under various lab conditions, what testing would you recommend? Thanks, Bob H. |
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Roy J. Tellason
On Saturday 07 October 2006 04:17 pm, Shawn Upton wrote:
What about an LM231? Voltage to frequency converter.That is an inteeresting idea. I never messed with any of those chips, though I did have one I picked up at Radio Shack some years ago, I think it was called a "9400C" or something pretty close to that, and I never did run across any real data for it. Tried getting it working once in a breadboard but didn't have much success. And it wanted multiple power supply voltages, as I recall. But I have seen V/F and F/V circuits somewhere or other. Dealing with DC can be a PITA, particularly when you're dealing with very small values of it, noise and offset and such can really mess things up. Back before modern components it was common to chop such stuff, and then amplify and otherwise process it as an AC waveform, only averaging it out later on. Betcha a bunch of those students that come around from time to time that you mention don't know much about such "prior art", nor consider it worthwhile to look at how things were once done. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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Is the old version freeware now, or still shareware?
Has anyone tried modifying a sound card to take DC input? Steve Greenfield PS please don't forget to trim --- In Electronics_101@..., "lcdpublishing" <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
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Roy J. Tellason
On Saturday 07 October 2006 05:17 pm, lcdpublishing wrote:
Hmmm, that sounds neat. I will have to look through my box ofNot the caps, though. I had one die on me here a while back, and there really wasn't all that much to it -- the chip itself and maybe a couple of buffers and such, and the rest of what was on that card was caps and some connectors for things like cd audio and such. It shouldn't be too hard to see which caps you need to mess with, just look from the line in connector (that is the one you're using right?) and trace it out. You probably don't even need to remove them, just check first to see if there's any DC present on the side away from the jack, and if not, solder a bit of wire across them and you should be good to go. Of course this puts the input jack connecting directly to the chip, but I expect your use probably has some external circuitry anyhow, doesn't it? The little bit of stuff I recall looking at for pc scopes did. And in fact it may have been on one of those pages where I saw this idea in the first place, I don't recall. --- In Electronics_101@..., "Roy J. Tellason"-- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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Steve, it appears to be freeware as it doesn't seem to have any
indications of registration etc. I dunno to be honest - it was free to download - it didn't require registration - and I do beleive is has limitted features. --- In Electronics_101@..., "Steve" <alienrelics@...> wrote: from isVirtins. that it works full screen |
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Okay, I know you guys are probably wetting your pants laughing at
me because I am so excited about a VERY CRUDE scope, but it is impressing me more and more. I wanted to check the actual ON time of a pulse generated by my AVR. In theory, it should be 50 uSec wide. I captured a single pulse and could point the cursor at the start and end of it and measure it's actual on time - 68 uSecs. This is measured at the output side of an opto isolator. I can clearly see the "Ringing" of the signal too. I don't have to turn the lights off to get a bright enough picture to see the trace! I was to the point with my HP scope of thinking you needed to have a Masters Degree in scope reading to get the most basic of measurements from it (along with a good dose of patience). I didn't realize till now how interesting and valuable they are! So, I guess Stefans point about the only thing worse than not having a scope is having a BAD scope is VERY TRUE. Sorry for my continued posts concerning my excitement. This experience working with this PC scope is proving to me that I am not as stupid as I thought I was :-) Chris |
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Pesonally, I've always liked the idea of using a soundcard as a very basic, though limited scope. You don't always need a high end scope and using a soundcard saves some $$$. Plus just about every PC has a soundcard making it very convenient.
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This discussion did spark an idea for me last night. I have a Logitech USB headset. Then neat thing is that it's plug and play and requires no special drivers and is seen as just another audio device. It occured to me that one of these headsets could probably be easily "hacked" by cutting off the cable to the headset and installing a BNC on the little box for your Ch A in and a BNC or banana for your Ch A out, doubling as a very crude single channel scope and as an audio generator. ----- Original Message -----
From: lcdpublishing To: Electronics_101@... Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:50 AM Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: How limitting do you think a scope would be if it were limitted to 35 volts? Okay, I know you guys are probably wetting your pants laughing at me because I am so excited about a VERY CRUDE scope, but it is impressing me more and more. I wanted to check the actual ON time of a pulse generated by my AVR. In theory, it should be 50 uSec wide. I captured a single pulse and could point the cursor at the start and end of it and measure it's actual on time - 68 uSecs. This is measured at the output side of an opto isolator. I can clearly see the "Ringing" of the signal too. I don't have to turn the lights off to get a bright enough picture to see the trace! I was to the point with my HP scope of thinking you needed to have a Masters Degree in scope reading to get the most basic of measurements from it (along with a good dose of patience). I didn't realize till now how interesting and valuable they are! So, I guess Stefans point about the only thing worse than not having a scope is having a BAD scope is VERY TRUE. Sorry for my continued posts concerning my excitement. This experience working with this PC scope is proving to me that I am not as stupid as I thought I was :-) Chris |
Steven AE7HD
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