开云体育

Nother question;

"All Electronics" sells an oscilloscope for $159.00 (hand held
type). My question is; is it any good, has anyone tried it or had
experience with similar items like this? Or, is a rip-off?
U4ia

--- In Electronics_101@..., "genteelu4ia" <vortex_9x@h...>
wrote:

Nother question;

"All Electronics" sells an oscilloscope for $159.00 (hand held
type). My question is; is it any good, has anyone tried it or had
experience with similar items like this? Or, is a rip-off?
U4ia

It looks like a Velleman HPS10 or a clone
(). Limited bandwidth and sampling rate
and only one channel. I have the HPS40 - higher bandwidth but still
one channel. I bought it to go places I couldn't take my normal
'scope - no mains electricity, water sloshing around so I wouldn't
risk my expensive 'scope. It does a job, it is digital storage, it
can even be linked to a PC (not the HPS10). I wouldn't like it to be
my only 'scope, but then I can afford to spend a lot more because it
is my living. It seems well built. I looked around for similar ones
and you can pay a lot more, and they are probably a lot better - you
get what you pay for. But if money is limited you get your money's
worth. I wish I had one 30 years ago when I was diagnosing fdaults
with a multimeter becuase 'scopes were too expensive.

Search around and you will find it a little cheaper eg:



Keith.

Thanks, Keith

Just what I wanted to know. One other thing, I'm a novice-- are they
difficult for dummies to use.<grin>
U4ia

--- In Electronics_101@..., "Keith" <keith@k...> wrote:

--- In Electronics_101@..., "genteelu4ia"

<vortex_9x@h...>

wrote:

Nother question;

"All Electronics" sells an oscilloscope for $159.00 (hand held
type). My question is; is it any good, has anyone tried it or

had

experience with similar items like this? Or, is a rip-off?
U4ia

It looks like a Velleman HPS10 or a clone
(). Limited bandwidth and sampling rate
and only one channel. I have the HPS40 - higher bandwidth but

still

one channel. I bought it to go places I couldn't take my normal
'scope - no mains electricity, water sloshing around so I wouldn't
risk my expensive 'scope. It does a job, it is digital storage, it
can even be linked to a PC (not the HPS10). I wouldn't like it to

be

my only 'scope, but then I can afford to spend a lot more because

it

is my living. It seems well built. I looked around for similar

ones

and you can pay a lot more, and they are probably a lot better -

you

get what you pay for. But if money is limited you get your money's
worth. I wish I had one 30 years ago when I was diagnosing fdaults
with a multimeter becuase 'scopes were too expensive.

Search around and you will find it a little cheaper eg:



Keith.

--- In Electronics_101@..., "genteelu4ia" <vortex_9x@h...>
wrote:

Thanks, Keith

Just what I wanted to know. One other thing, I'm a novice-- are they
difficult for dummies to use.<grin>

I would say it is more difficult to use than a normal 'scope. This is
because they have crammed in so much functionality with so few buttons
(and NO knobs) that it take a bit of learning to know what to push when.

Keith.

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:52:39 -0000, genteelu4ia <vortex_9x@...> wrote:

Nother question;

"All Electronics" sells an oscilloscope for $159.00 (hand held
type). My question is; is it any good, has anyone tried it or had
experience with similar items like this? Or, is a rip-off?
U4ia

I don't know all electronics.
I think for $159 it can't be much good if it is new.
It depends very much on what you want to do, things
i would strongly recommend are at least 2 channels and
some sort of storage, digital or analog.

The bandwidth (samples) is another issue, it depends very much on what you
want to do.
You say it is a handheld unit, so it is digital, and i would assume the samples
would be very low (number of measured points per second).

If you can support technical data i can tell you what i think of it,
and of course you need to know what you want to do.

I can strongly recommend the old tektronix scopes, like the tek 7000series.
they are old, but cheap. the trick is you have a modular system with plugins.
You have plugins like vertical amplifiers, timebases, etc...
Then you have a main unit with the screen, the main unit also can allow for storage
(analog).

I have a 7633 which has 100Mhz analog bandwidth and fast analog storage.
As plugins i have one 2 channel amplifier, one differential, and a dual time base.

I can say this is a very good unit to use, especially considering the age of it it is amazing
what tektronix did build in those days. I payd 200eur at ebay for the set, in perfect working order.

One disadvantage is the standard plugins do not have readout functions, like amplitude and
frequency etc. so you have to count divisions ot use other meters. but i can live with that.


Digital scopes have no doubt some advantages, but the ones with serious bandwidth i couldn't
find for a price i could afford. So i live with a analog storage scope and i am very happy with it.


I know this does not very much answer your question, but as said i don't have data of the scope
you ask for.
I wanted to give you a general idea what is important. (and of course show off my tek 7633 ;-)


ST

Yeah, Thanks Stefan;

The extra knowledge is very helpful in a decision like this to me
and for many, I'm sure.
U4ia

--- In Electronics_101@..., Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:52:39 -0000, genteelu4ia <vortex_9x@h...>
wrote:

Nother question;

"All Electronics" sells an oscilloscope for $159.00 (hand held
type). My question is; is it any good, has anyone tried it or had
experience with similar items like this? Or, is a rip-off?
U4ia

I don't know all electronics.
I think for $159 it can't be much good if it is new.
It depends very much on what you want to do, things
i would strongly recommend are at least 2 channels and
some sort of storage, digital or analog.

The bandwidth (samples) is another issue, it depends very much on

what you

want to do.
You say it is a handheld unit, so it is digital, and i would

assume the

samples
would be very low (number of measured points per second).

If you can support technical data i can tell you what i think of

it,

and of course you need to know what you want to do.

I can strongly recommend the old tektronix scopes, like the tek

7000series.

they are old, but cheap. the trick is you have a modular system

with

plugins.
You have plugins like vertical amplifiers, timebases, etc...
Then you have a main unit with the screen, the main unit also can

allow

for storage
(analog).

I have a 7633 which has 100Mhz analog bandwidth and fast analog

storage.

As plugins i have one 2 channel amplifier, one differential, and a

dual

time base.

I can say this is a very good unit to use, especially considering

the age

of it it is amazing
what tektronix did build in those days. I payd 200eur at ebay for

the set,

in perfect working order.

One disadvantage is the standard plugins do not have readout

functions,

like amplitude and
frequency etc. so you have to count divisions ot use other meters.

but i

can live with that.


Digital scopes have no doubt some advantages, but the ones with

serious

bandwidth i couldn't
find for a price i could afford. So i live with a analog storage

scope and

i am very happy with it.


I know this does not very much answer your question, but as said i

don't

have data of the scope
you ask for.
I wanted to give you a general idea what is important. (and of

course show

off my tek 7633 ;-)


ST

you've gotten some good advice so far. I'll toss my $.02 in as
well.

Looking for used scopes is a great way to get a quality scope for not
much money. I bought one off of ebay for $120 - its a Tek 2225 (2
channels, external trigger, single sweep, 50 Mhz analog scope). I
looked at new scopes and used ones from dealers. I also spent time
looking at US Gov auctions (great deals but spotty availablity). I
selected the 2225 from the portable scope series because I liked the
form factor (doesn't demand permanent counter space). Either HP or
Tek scopes are very good. Military scopes are usually built to last
forever but there is less info. I would have liked more channels and
100 Mhz bandwidth but I'm quite happy with what I've got. The
external trigger really comes in handy. The next step up would be a
digital scope but I'm not willing to fork over that much.

So, spend some time looking at whats out there, learn about scope
functions, see if you can find some one that will show you theirs and
let you play with it.

Phil

--- In Electronics_101@..., "genteelu4ia"
<vortex_9x@h...> wrote:

Nother question;

"All Electronics" sells an oscilloscope for $159.00 (hand held
type). My question is; is it any good, has anyone tried it or had
experience with similar items like this? Or, is a rip-off?
U4ia

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:43:30 -0000, genteelu4ia <vortex_9x@...> wrote:

Yeah, Thanks Stefan;

The extra knowledge is very helpful in a decision like this to me
and for many, I'm sure.
U4ia

after reading the other posts the scope you mentioned got technical data.
-10Msamples is not really high, but would do for low frequency things.
--For me 1 channel would be the major negative point.
-90% of the time you need only 1 but the other 10% you really want the second.
++A big plus is that it is so portable.
-The display might be harder to read than a crt.
-There seems to be no x/y mode.
+There are many readout functions.

I would certainly not trade it for my scope, but as a second unit it might be nice.
Bad thing is in europe a similar unit wold cost eur200, likely more.


It depends on what you want to do if this is suitable.

ST

--- In Electronics_101@..., Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:43:30 -0000, genteelu4ia <vortex_9x@h...>
wrote:

Yeah, Thanks Stefan;

The extra knowledge is very helpful in a decision like this to me
and for many, I'm sure.
U4ia

after reading the other posts the scope you mentioned got technical

data.

-10Msamples is not really high, but would do for low frequency things.
--For me 1 channel would be the major negative point.
-90% of the time you need only 1 but the other 10% you really want the
second.
++A big plus is that it is so portable.
-The display might be harder to read than a crt.
-There seems to be no x/y mode.
+There are many readout functions.

I would certainly not trade it for my scope, but as a second unit it

might

be nice.
Bad thing is in europe a similar unit wold cost eur200, likely more.


It depends on what you want to do if this is suitable.

ST

I agree with both the preceding posts. I would not want it to be my
only 'scope, but it depends on what you want it for (I have a 4
channel 500MHz 1Gs/s colour one with 2MB of acquisition memory as
well:). Also if you can buy something like a second hand Tektronix
2225 for similar money you have a lot more 'scope for your money, but
that should always be true of anything second hand.

I haven't looked for a while, but Hameg always used to make decent
priced oscilloscopes, but times have changed and there are probably a
lot of Far Eastern imports to choose from as well.

Keith.

The
external trigger really comes in handy.

Thant's true, it can almost substitute 1 more channel.
(never used mine though, 'cause there is no channel shortage...)

Phil, you might consider isolation amps that can chop, if your signal frequency
is low enough.... they can get your scope up to 4 ch easily.

The next step up would be a
digital scope but I'm not willing to fork over that much.

"fork over"... yea guess that is a good word for it.

I am very satisfied with the analog storage, i still don't understand how it works though.
somehow the image gets stored inside the crt, even if you power off the scope it is still
stored if you switch on within a few hours.
(i personally think some dark magic is involved but don't tell ;-) )


Another point where you really want a digital scope is if you need hardcopys of your
screens, for documentation etc. then you can easily do it with a digital scope while
you need a camera with a analog scope.

I would not recommend a completely analog scope, without storage, even for the beginner.
It is just so convenient, even if you only want to eliminate the 50Hz flicker.
There are also "small" tek scopes which have analog storage.

If you want to get into old scopes, you can have a glance at the 7000 series
here:
<>
sure, they need a permanent desk space but the modules are really neat and
you still get LOADS of stuff at ebay for them.

Good luck..

ST

--- In Electronics_101@..., "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:

you've gotten some good advice so far. I'll toss my $.02 in as
well.

Looking for used scopes is a great way to get a quality scope for not
much money. I bought one off of ebay for $120 - its a Tek 2225 (2
channels, external trigger, single sweep, 50 Mhz analog scope). I
looked at new scopes and used ones from dealers. I also spent time
looking at US Gov auctions (great deals but spotty availablity). I
selected the 2225 from the portable scope series because I liked the
form factor (doesn't demand permanent counter space). Either HP or
Tek scopes are very good. Military scopes are usually built to last
forever but there is less info. I would have liked more channels and
100 Mhz bandwidth but I'm quite happy with what I've got. The
external trigger really comes in handy. The next step up would be a
digital scope but I'm not willing to fork over that much.

So, spend some time looking at whats out there, learn about scope
functions, see if you can find some one that will show you theirs and
let you play with it.

Picked up a Tek 465B 100Mhz (the 20 year old scope, not the 30 year
old scope) for $100 on eBay a while back. Came with a bunch of probes,
accessory pouch, spare graticule, original manual. I scrounged eBay
for about two weeks before I saw this deal and snapped it up.

Important thing to remember is that there always will be a better
deal. I was watching a similar scope earlier, and some newbie got in
there and began bidding hours before the auction ended. Whenever
someone threw in a bid, he'd go in there and keep punching in bids
until he was on top. I bowed out around $150, but kept watching. That
newb ran the auction all the way up past $250. No one else was bidding
for about five minutes, I bet he figured "Yeah! How do you like that!
I beat all you guys!" I kept watching, because I knew what would
happen...and it did. A sniper came in about seven seconds before the
auction ended, and sniped the auction by a dollar. That was hilarious.
The point is that getting competitive on eBay will not do anything for
you...there will always be a better deal coming along. If the price
gets too high, just quit bidding and don't buy the thing because
you're trying to prove something to all the other bidders.

On Monday 26 April 2004 01:18 pm, cybermace5 wrote:

Picked up a Tek 465B 100Mhz (the 20 year old scope, not the 30 year
old scope) for $100 on eBay a while back.

Wow, you got yourself a deal there all right!

Came with a bunch of probes, accessory pouch, spare graticule, original
manual. I scrounged eBay for about two weeks before I saw this deal and
snapped it up.

When that thing was new, some of the probes alone cost that much.

I got to play with one of those for a while some years back, and it was a
pretty nice scope. If I hadn't ended up with a 2246, I'd want one of
those...

I've had a number of different scopes over the years, ranging from really
crude ac-couple tube type units on up. Those were cheap, typically $20 at a
pawnshop, and while they weren't suited to measurement and higher
frequencies they did prove useful and worth what I had invested in them. I
guess what scope you _need_ really depends a lot on what you want to do with
it.

I bought a couple of years ago a Tek scope
at EBay. The thing works great and does even
over 500 MHz while rated (-3dB) at 150 MHz
bandwidth! Amplitude is not calibrated anymore
outside bandwidth but that is in most cases
not a real issue.

You should remember that, when buying an old
scope, it can be very hard and/or expensive to
find spare parts if it breaks down. That's why
usually it is better to buy a quite modern one. These
also have cursors to measure various things like
voltage and phase differences and periods. I would
spend a little bit more money on a good scope than
try to get a cheap old one (at least if you plan to really
use the thing often).

Stuff from EBay usually needs a new calibration done,
but in most cases it is not that necessary, for a hobyist.

Albert

On Monday 26 April 2004 03:09 pm, a.mil@... wrote:

I bought a couple of years ago a Tek scope at EBay. The thing works great
and does even over 500 MHz while rated (-3dB) at 150 MHz bandwidth!

This is a sign of really good design. The cheaper stuff drops off after rated
bandwidth *very* abruptly, and is probably not all that useful for
nonsinusoidal waveforms even up _near_ rated bandwidth. It's a matter of
different approaches to the design.

Amplitude is not calibrated anymore outside bandwidth but that is in most
cases not a real issue.

True.

You should remember that, when buying an old scope, it can be very hard and
/or expensive to find spare parts if it breaks down.

True, but if you get a really cheap one then it's not that much of an
investment, and if you get a really good one (Tek or HP) they just don't
tend to break down all that much. Those things were build *well*, and
continue to operate for amazingly long times.

That's why usually it is better to buy a quite modern one. These also have
cursors to measure various things like voltage and phase differences and
periods.

While that stuff ia handy, there are a lot of situations where it's useful
just to be able to *see* a waveform, and measurement is a secondary issue.
That's how come I was able to do useful work with the really old junk that I
started with. (Eico model 425, Paco model SS-50, Precision model S-100, and
an old DuMont "military" scope. :-)

I would spend a little bit more money on a good scope than try to get a
cheap old one (at least if you plan to really use the thing often).

It isn't so much a question of how often you use it as what you're going to
use it for. With me, the cheap ones were fine for hobby stuff. When I
started to find a scope particularly useful in terms of actually making my
living working on stuff, that's when I went for the Tek.

Thanks, to ALL for the good information on scopes--
It's been educational to say the least.
U4ia

--- In Electronics_101@..., "Keith" <keith@k...> wrote:

--- In Electronics_101@..., "genteelu4ia" <vortex_9x@h...>
wrote:

Nother question;

"All Electronics" sells an oscilloscope for $159.00 (hand held
type). My question is; is it any good, has anyone tried it or had
experience with similar items like this? Or, is a rip-off?
U4ia

It looks like a Velleman HPS10 or a clone
(). Limited bandwidth and sampling rate
and only one channel. I have the HPS40 - higher bandwidth but still
one channel. I bought it to go places I couldn't take my normal
'scope - no mains electricity, water sloshing around so I wouldn't
risk my expensive 'scope. It does a job, it is digital storage, it
can even be linked to a PC (not the HPS10). I wouldn't like it to be
my only 'scope, but then I can afford to spend a lot more because it
is my living. It seems well built. I looked around for similar ones
and you can pay a lot more, and they are probably a lot better - you
get what you pay for. But if money is limited you get your money's
worth. I wish I had one 30 years ago when I was diagnosing fdaults
with a multimeter becuase 'scopes were too expensive.

Search around and you will find it a little cheaper eg:

Very nice! RS232 on the HPS40. I want one! The HPS40 is 12MHz BW.
Apogee Kits is out of stock on both!

Q Kits has the HPS 40 in stock, but it's $320 USD. They say they'll
match price, though.



Alien Steve