Keyboard Shortcuts
ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
ctrl + shift + f :
Find
ctrl + / :
Quick actions
esc to dismiss
Likes
Search
I almost didn't come home today - SAFETY!
开云体育In a message dated 4/17/2004 9:43:34 PM Central Standard Time, ghidera2000@... writes:
Moral of the story - NEVER "make do" with wiring. If you're going to ?
Did I hear "Wired in accordance with EEOC rules!" ? ? ? |
|
This may be semi OT as it is electrical, not electronic.
I work as a stationary engineer for a municiple government. Part of our duties is minor electrical work - things like changing lamp ballasts, fixing broken outlets, changing electric motors etc. Anyway, I got a work order this morning saying that one corner of a florescent fixture was pulling away from the ceiling in a preschool room.I looked and one corner was sagging down about 1/4". I grabbed a ladder and went up to see what was happening. I touched the fixture and *ZAP*. Not a big jolt, but my fingers were a bit numb for 15 minutes or so. Needless to say, the power went off REAL fast after that. I took the lens off, the tubes out, and removed the ballast cover. First thing I noticed was the lack of a ground wire... Not a loose ground - it was completely missing! Next thing I noticed was that the knockout was bare. No bushing was installed at all! I grabbed the hot and sure enough, the sheet metal had cut through the insulation and charged the entire fixture to 120 volts - WITH NO GROUND. Thankfully, I was using a wooden ladder and had touched a painted portion of the light. It doesn't end there either. I took the fixture completely off the ceiling and in the process discovered that the installer had simply used metal screws directly into acoustic ceiling tiles! No joists above, no toggle bolts, not even stupid drywall plugs. What boggled my mind was that this fixture had been there for at least 12 years (as long as I've worked there). And the room above this is a gymnasium. When people run around, the ceiling shakes so much that aluminium angle was screwed onto the fixtures to keep the lenses from falling out. Still not finished! The junction box was 6" to the side of the knockout they used so the wires were sandwiched between the ceiling and the fixture then had to do a 90 through the (unbushed) knockout. The junction box itself was not attached to anything. It just had a piece of wood screwed to it so it wouldn't fall through the hole in the ceiling tile. As you probably guessed, yes, most of the wires are NOT in conduit, they were just run along joists with staples. There was one wire in conduit, which simply ended and the wire then did a 100 degree turn and got fed into the junction box. There were three sets of wires led into the box - each with a ground. All of them were neatly wire nutted together... NOT attached to the junction box OR the fixture. I looked around the room, there are 12 other fixtures... Needless to say, the big boss, the medium boss, the little boss, and everyone in between has heard about it. That room is a death waiting to happen. Moral of the story - NEVER "make do" with wiring. If you're going to use dangerous voltages in your projects, DO IT RIGHT or scrap the project. The person you kill may not be yourself. |
开云体育This is one of those scary stories that convinces
governments to make sure that only licensed electricians should do electrical
work. Even scarier is the possibility that the person who did the install
probably WAS licensed.
?
??? ??? The Sinister
Dragon
?
From: ghidera2000
|
|
Logic Research Electronics
开云体育Hi,
?
I am registered as an electrician (for almost 20
years) and although there are some cowboys out there, such bad workmanship is
not tolerated.
Not earthing any fitting is beyond a joke and can
result in loss of practicing license and a huge fine which would pretty much
ruin a person.
?
Get yourself checked out by a doctor as the
effects of a shock (on your heart) can?appear several days after the
shock.
|
|
Rod Baxter
开云体育Unfortunately even experienced electricians can get caught. About 15 years ago I was installing a mainframe computer which had a large Frequency converter to run it, about 50 KVA. ?The inspector who came to check on the electricians work checked the output of the converter and said it wasn’t working. I grabbed his hand as he went to touch it and stopped him electrocuting himself. What he had done was use his phase rotation meter to check the output and it did not work at 400Hz which was the output of the converter. I used my meter and showed him it was working, he went a bit pale and left! I am not a licensed electrician but I suspect I know more about electricity (and the regulations) than some electricians unfortunately. ? Anyone can make a mistake I guess, the trick is to make sure they are not fatal.. ? Sorry to be OT here, but I get upset at some of the stupid licensing regulations we have in this country. ? Rod ? -----Original Message-----
From: peter tremewen [mailto:Ptremewe@...] Sent: Sunday, 18 April 2004 4:45 PM To: Electronics_101@... Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] I almost didn't come home today - SAFETY! ? This is one of those scary stories that convinces governments to make sure that only licensed electricians should do electrical work. Even scarier is the possibility that the person who did the install probably WAS licensed. ? ??? ??? The Sinister Dragon ? From: ghidera2000
? |
Sorry to be OT here, but I get upset at some of the stupidAnd how many more people would kill themselves or others if there were no licensing or regulations? An idea doesn't have to be perfect for it to still be a good idea. Mike --- In Electronics_101@..., "Rod Baxter" <rod.baxter@b...> wrote: Unfortunately even experienced electricians can get caught. About 15came to check on the electricians work checked the output of the converterand said it wasn't working. I grabbed his hand as he went to touch itand stopped him electrocuting himself. What he had done was use hisphase rotation meter to check the output and it did not work at 400Hzwhich was the output of the converter. I used my meter and showed him itwas working, he went a bit pale and left! I am not a licensedelectrician but I suspect I know more about electricity (and the regulations)than some electricians unfortunately.are not fatal.. |
开云体育In a message dated 4/18/2004 3:00:47 AM Central Standard Time, logicresearch@... writes:
Yes, Logic.? But the Anglican Kingdom has retained common sense, while sadly, we Yanks have let a liberal mentality take that over, and, well, I dasn't go into that here, lest I be forced to try to explain a sociophenomenon I find too tedious to study sufficiently to argue. |
|
John Johnson
Sorry this happened to you. I got stuck on 320v when I was a teenager,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
fortunately my mother pulled me off of it. I was dying, and know it isn't any fun. This is why everyone should use lock-out tag-out every time, without fail. There should also be documented de-energizing procedures for every device in the facility. My company won't even buy the LOTO equipment for me. Regards, JJ On Saturday, Apr 17, 2004, at 22:41 US/Eastern, ghidera2000 wrote:
Anyway, I got a work order this morning saying that one corner of a |
|
Stefan Trethan
This is why everyone should use lock-out tag-out every time, withoutWell, if you are only going to touch a thing like this lamp fixture which should never ever be at dangerous potential it is hard to do that. (e.g. where do you switch off before you touch the metal fuse compartment for switching off the power.) What i want to say is if one stupid guy is doing improper work you have most trouble working after him. One good idea would be to always use one of those screwdrivers with a indicator lamp. it is by no means a 100% safety thing but it takes little enough time and work to touch a chassis with it that you might actually use it. Licensing is one possibility to keep certain standards, but it is never perfect. The dangerous thing is if people are forced to do things faster and cheaper than they can be done properly. ST |
|
dangermouse
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...> To: <Electronics_101@...> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] I almost didn't come home today - SAFETY! True enough. My company had a simple, ironclad rule: no lockie, workie.This is why everyone should use lock-out tag-out every time, without Period. Then one day I touch the negative side of a DC meter on a piece of equipment that had been locked and tagged out. I got 120VAC to my admittedly surprised finger, and one of those question-mark thingies floating in the air above my head. Some yahoo had figured the easiest way to interface a control unit across the room was to run an independent 120VAC line to this control box, thereby insuring that when we THOUGHT we were locked out, we weren't. Oh--and he managed to reverse line and neutral while he was at it. -DM |
|
--- In Electronics_101@..., John Johnson <johnatl@m...>
wrote: Sorry this happened to you. I got stuck on 320v when I was ateenager, fortunately my mother pulled me off of it. I was dying, and knowit isn't any fun.without fail.I had my lockout hanging on my belt actually. I never work on electrical equipment without locking out and PROVING that the power is off. In this case though, why would anyone lock out when you're only looking at the fixture - without even taking the lens off? Thats like saying you would need to lock out your table lamp at home before you could touch it to turn it on or off. This was installed prior to my employer hiring a full time Electrician (same time I started). All work was done by electrical contractors who are required to be licensed by law here. No ticky, no worky! Being ticketed just means you know HOW to do things correctly, not that you WILL do them that way. Where I live, only a homeowner working on thier own home is allowed to do electrical work without a license. Even then, they still have to get permits and be inspected prior to energizing. The only reason we're allowed to do the minor electrical work is that the employer takes out an annual permit and we work under the direction of the ticketed electrician. Any work we do is inspected by the electrician and only the electrician is allowed to energize the circuit after repairs/installation. He has to check out each person before they're allowed to even pick a voltage tick, never mind actually touch a power cord. |
|
Rod Baxter
Mike, what I was saying (not very well) is that the English system is a
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
better way to go. It's not possible to stop people doing their own work, no matter how much legislation or licensing is specified, so another way needs to be found. To me the obvious way is to let people do their own work, owner-builder if you like, but insist they have it inspected cheaply before its passed. This will save lives, including those of future electricians who may have to work on it later. It wont make less work for any licensed electricians, as these owner-builder types will do their own anyway, so lets encourage them to get it inspected so no-one gets hurt. Rod -----Original Message-----
From: upand_at_them [mailto:upand_at_them@...] Sent: Sunday, 18 April 2004 10:10 PM To: Electronics_101@... Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: I almost didn't come home today - SAFETY! Sorry to be OT here, but I get upset at some of the stupidAnd how many more people would kill themselves or others if there were no licensing or regulations? An idea doesn't have to be perfect for it to still be a good idea. Mike --- In Electronics_101@..., "Rod Baxter" <rod.baxter@b...> wrote: Unfortunately even experienced electricians can get caught. About 15came to check on the electricians work checked the output of the converterand said it wasn't working. I grabbed his hand as he went to touch itand stopped him electrocuting himself. What he had done was use hisphase rotation meter to check the output and it did not work at 400Hzwhich was the output of the converter. I used my meter and showed him itwas working, he went a bit pale and left! I am not a licensedelectrician but I suspect I know more about electricity (and the regulations)than some electricians unfortunately.are not fatal.. Yahoo! Groups Links |
|
Mike Rainone
开云体育And what "sociophenomenon" would that be? Frankly, it is the
conservatives that insist that what you do in the privacy of your own home is
sacrosanct (of course, if you are gay that's something else entirely).
Thus,?you should be able to wire or fry yourself?as you wish. Don't
you find it interesting that those damn liberal states in the northeast have
some of the most rigid "craft and licensing?laws" that are in
fact?much like those in the "Anglican Kingdom" with all of their common
sense??
? ----- Original Message -----
|
to navigate to use esc to dismiss