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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

In a message dated 4/28/2006 8:49:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time, dave_mucha@... writes:
proto boards are notorious for poor connections.<<
I would have thought so, after the first few years of using several.? But in 30+ years using the "breadboard socket things", I have NEVER experienced a bad connection nor a "short" inside the socket!? And I have BAD luck, so they MUST be built right!?
?
I also TRY to always use bright-tinned wire, not "bare copper".?

?
?


Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

In a message dated 4/28/2006 8:30:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rstofer@... writes:
I use the prebuilt jumpers from the Wire Jumper Kit to route power and ground to the various components http://tinyurl.com/jjjdq? This keeps that portion close to the board and less likely to be disturbed.

Then I use the Reinforced Wire Jumpers to do the signal interconnect.? I have all 3 lengths and I will take the time to find the shortest workable length.? On small breadboards, 4" will reach everywhere but I will use 2" if it will work.<<
And I thought I? was slow!? I figured out within 48 hours after getting my first box of "pre-bent, pre-stripped" breadboard wires that the COLORS were "tenths of the inch" (i.e., a yellow was 0.4", a blue was 0.6", etc.? "Number of holes" if you are a metric-thinking person.)? "Point-to-point" without slack is the NORM when doing HF or RF work, isn't it?? It is far easier to "see" a circuit on the breadboard with short-as-possible wires!? Just common sense!?? I can't imagine trying to reach in with a 'scope-probe to touch a specific terminal on a 40-pin IC when there were LOOPS sticking up all over, like a jungle-forest!? EEEEEEEEWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
?


Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween

 

--- In Electronics_101@..., "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

One sees the christmas decorations on TV and shakes the head "well,
they
show only the most extreme one".

But it seems to me, you guys truly _are_ quite insane when it comes to
these things.

What on earth happened to the pumpkins with the center and some facial
features cut out and a candle lit inside?

ST
We have those too! In fact, we bought a string of pumpkin light
fixtures to run along the walkway.

Compared to almost any real 'haunt' mine is tame and minimalist. Some
folks get really carried away. But, I think most of those 'haunts'
are for adults whereas mine is for the Trick or Treater in the
neighborhood.

Getting too carried away with effects will probably garner a lot of
negative feedback. Many of the kids are quite young. Heck, my
grandson, at 7, wasn't comfortable with the show until he had been
around it for a few hours.

Richard


Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween

 

That has been replaced by a foam facsimile, with an flickering LED circuit.
Of course, a scare the hell out of em 130db alarm circuit has been added.
Along with in series triggers a dye loaded solenoid controlled sprinkler
head.
Its all captured for posterity with motion sensor activated cameras using IR
illuminators.
Just in case folks still take advantage of mischief night.

Oh you mean effects!

Gory Corey
csminion@...



Look for MinionsWeb at The Great Lakes Fright Fest June 2-4, 2006
, IronStock
The Midwest Haunters Convention ,
and HorrorFind Weekend

-----Original Message-----
From: Electronics_101@...
[mailto:Electronics_101@...]On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:44 PM
To: Electronics_101@...
Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween


One sees the christmas decorations on TV and shakes the head "well, they
show only the most extreme one".

But it seems to me, you guys truly _are_ quite insane when it comes to
these things.

What on earth happened to the pumpkins with the center and some facial
features cut out and a candle lit inside?

ST


On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:26:08 +0200, rtstofer <rstofer@...> wrote:

I think some liked the entire show. Others just grabbed the candy and

ran - couldn't care less about the effects.


I had a skeleton in a rocking chair with a snoring sound effect

synchronized to the chair motion. It was triggered with a motion

sensor on approach, not retreat. This year I will upgrade that with

an animated skull and an audio track "Why have you disturbed my nap!

Get your candy and run! I want to Rest In Peace" or something like that.


I had a thunder sound track and synchronized lightning bouncing on the

side of the garage wall. There is a small planter area right there

and I had an animated headstone synchronized to the thunder/lightning.

These were triggered by a motion sensor.


I also had a Flying Crank Ghost behind one of the large front windows.

This was illuminated by black light and almost every adult asked how

it was done. The kids just grabbed the candy and ran.


This year I will add the animated owl - probably triggered by people

walking up the sidewalk. The mounting location is still TBD.


I want to do a Monster In A Box or a pop-up but the powers that be

have nixed that idea. She doesn't want to terrify the young ones.


I will be doing a lot more with sound tracks. I bought 4 of the Rogue

Robotics uMP3 players so I will have a long playing track of haunting

sounds in the graveyard and perhaps something similar below the Flying

Crank Ghost.


I may still do something with another skeleton. Perhaps some fade

lighting and a little animation. The Bucky skeletons are on sale

through a group event on Technical Insanity. Instead of the usual

$200, they are just $60. Those and a bag of bones should really add

to the theme.


Richard


Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween

Stefan Trethan
 

One sees the christmas decorations on TV and shakes the head "well, they show only the most extreme one".

But it seems to me, you guys truly _are_ quite insane when it comes to these things.

What on earth happened to the pumpkins with the center and some facial features cut out and a candle lit inside?

ST

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:26:08 +0200, rtstofer <rstofer@...> wrote:

I think some liked the entire show. Others just grabbed the candy and

ran - couldn't care less about the effects.


I had a skeleton in a rocking chair with a snoring sound effect

synchronized to the chair motion. It was triggered with a motion

sensor on approach, not retreat. This year I will upgrade that with

an animated skull and an audio track "Why have you disturbed my nap!

Get your candy and run! I want to Rest In Peace" or something like that.


I had a thunder sound track and synchronized lightning bouncing on the

side of the garage wall. There is a small planter area right there

and I had an animated headstone synchronized to the thunder/lightning.

These were triggered by a motion sensor.


I also had a Flying Crank Ghost behind one of the large front windows.

This was illuminated by black light and almost every adult asked how

it was done. The kids just grabbed the candy and ran.


This year I will add the animated owl - probably triggered by people

walking up the sidewalk. The mounting location is still TBD.


I want to do a Monster In A Box or a pop-up but the powers that be

have nixed that idea. She doesn't want to terrify the young ones.


I will be doing a lot more with sound tracks. I bought 4 of the Rogue

Robotics uMP3 players so I will have a long playing track of haunting

sounds in the graveyard and perhaps something similar below the Flying

Crank Ghost.


I may still do something with another skeleton. Perhaps some fade

lighting and a little animation. The Bucky skeletons are on sale

through a group event on Technical Insanity. Instead of the usual

$200, they are just $60. Those and a bag of bones should really add

to the theme.


Richard


Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween

 

--- In Electronics_101@..., "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@...>
wrote:


Getting started early this year - Halloween is just around the corner!

Richard
I missed your notes on last years project. how did the kids like it ?

Dave
I think some liked the entire show. Others just grabbed the candy and
ran - couldn't care less about the effects.

I had a skeleton in a rocking chair with a snoring sound effect
synchronized to the chair motion. It was triggered with a motion
sensor on approach, not retreat. This year I will upgrade that with
an animated skull and an audio track "Why have you disturbed my nap!
Get your candy and run! I want to Rest In Peace" or something like that.

I had a thunder sound track and synchronized lightning bouncing on the
side of the garage wall. There is a small planter area right there
and I had an animated headstone synchronized to the thunder/lightning.
These were triggered by a motion sensor.

I also had a Flying Crank Ghost behind one of the large front windows.
This was illuminated by black light and almost every adult asked how
it was done. The kids just grabbed the candy and ran.

This year I will add the animated owl - probably triggered by people
walking up the sidewalk. The mounting location is still TBD.

I want to do a Monster In A Box or a pop-up but the powers that be
have nixed that idea. She doesn't want to terrify the young ones.

I will be doing a lot more with sound tracks. I bought 4 of the Rogue
Robotics uMP3 players so I will have a long playing track of haunting
sounds in the graveyard and perhaps something similar below the Flying
Crank Ghost.

I may still do something with another skeleton. Perhaps some fade
lighting and a little animation. The Bucky skeletons are on sale
through a group event on Technical Insanity. Instead of the usual
$200, they are just $60. Those and a bag of bones should really add
to the theme.

Richard


Eavesdropping Video Receives 5 Stars Review

Pinpoint Productions
 

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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!

Stefan Trethan
 

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:46:34 +0200, Shawn Standfast <sstandfast@...> wrote:

In a nutshell - cheap breadboard. I was fumbling

around trying to put a wire in place. In doing so I

pushed one side of a resistor down to where half of

the lead was now "in" the board. Apparently, the lead

was pushed far enough in so that it was sticking off

the "pad" benith it and making contact with the row

right above it. It wasn't a serious problem, it was

just a pull-up for an I2C bus, but it sure did take a

little while to figure out why the clock and data

lines were always in synch.


Shawn


I can see how that would take a while!

For sure i wouldn't have suspected that soon...

ST


Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS

 

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Electronics_101@...
[mailto:Electronics_101@...] De la part de lcdpublishing
Envoy¨¦ : avril 28 2006 09:53
? : Electronics_101@...
Objet : [Electronics_101] Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS

...

Keeping component lead from shorting out against other components
and leads. I suspect that two things will help here.
1) Bigger boards allow for more room between components
2) Triming the leads of resistors, leds, caps, etc. before placing
on the breadboard. Right now I use them with stock lead lengths.
I use stock leads until I determine the proper component. Once I establish
the value, I trim the leads and try to keep it just above the breadboard,
less risk of screw-ups. I used to keep stock leads all the time, but lately
I've learned that trimming is VERY useful.

Fat fingers and pushing in those tiny wires - so often a wire or
lead would rather bend over than go into the hole. Then there is
the problem of getting the fingers down in-between the components to
push in the wires and leads - I think I need to work more with
needle nose pliers and perhaps a larger board will give me a bit
more finger room.
I can't tell you exactly what gauge wire I use, but it is stiff enough to
stand on end and keep 'bends' easily. I buy it in multi-wire cables, strip
the cover with an exacto and yank out the different colour-coded
single-strand wires. I cut 10 feet lengths and roll them into little balls,
when I run out of one colour I cut another length.

Working backwards after the changes and taking the prototype from
the bread board and re-creating a circuit for the final build. I
screwed up big time on the last two attempts at this. To help with
that, this time I am working from a layout that is "ready for
printing". Then, hopefully with a bit of dicipline, as I make
changes on the breadboard, I will also change the layout in the
software.
I try to keep several 'versions' of a working circuit; schematic in QCAD, a
breadboard and an actual complete PCB if possible.

Robert
:)


Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!

 

--- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
How did you manage that?
In a nutshell - cheap breadboard. I was fumbling
around trying to put a wire in place. In doing so I
pushed one side of a resistor down to where half of
the lead was now "in" the board. Apparently, the lead
was pushed far enough in so that it was sticking off
the "pad" benith it and making contact with the row
right above it. It wasn't a serious problem, it was
just a pull-up for an I2C bus, but it sure did take a
little while to figure out why the clock and data
lines were always in synch.

Shawn





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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS

Daniel Nicoson
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I use a pair of small needle nose pliers that are spring loaded open.? They are my fingers for moving everything.

?

Even when I¡¯m on a roll, thinking I¡¯ve got the circuit fully worked out in my head, I force myself to create a complete schematic before starting at the breadboard.? It¡¯s amazing what you realize needs to be considered as you work through the schematic.

?

Then as I build the circuit on the breadboard, I have a print out of the schematic laying right on the work space.? As I change a resistor value etc I can note the change right then with a pen, takes no time.? Then before finishing the work session I update the schematic file on the computer.? All my schematic files start with that day¡¯s date.? That way I can always go back to the previous schematic if I have a real problem.? This makes for a lot of schematic files but hard disk space is cheap.?

?

I also try to make some basic notes on the day¡¯s work session.? Primarily this is to record my mind-set for the day¡¯s work session.? What did I think I was doing, what did I learn, what were my reasons for a particular change.? That has been helpful when I come back to a project after a long period of time.

?

I do check the value of every resistor and cap with my multi-meter before I insert it into the breadboard.? Sounds slow and it is, but I am always sure what is going on with this method. The color codes on many of the resistors I use don¡¯t seem to be easily read anyway, so this insures accuracy.

?

Just some thoughts.

?

Dan Nicoson

?

-----Original Message-----
From: Electronics_101@... [mailto:Electronics_101@...]On Behalf Of lcdpublishing
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:53 AM
To: Electronics_101@...
Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS

?

Wow,

Keep these tips and pointer coming!? I need all the help I can get
to work with them (I don't like using them).

What is helping...

Modules when I can.? I am making them up as I need them. Slows down
the process overall, but much better in the long run.

Taking a bit more time on checking/rechecking, double checking etc.?
It's so easy to get messed up with a lot of wires and ICs.

What I have trouble with...

Loops on wires - I am getting to be a Klutz!? Which is a very bad
thing considering what I do for a living!? It seems as though if
there is a wire with a loop, or even a component with leads long
enough that can catch on something, it will!? All it takes is one
catch and I have a mess to deal with - very, VERY frustrating.

Keeping component lead from shorting out against other components
and leads.? I suspect that two things will help here.
1) Bigger boards allow for more room between components
2) Triming the leads of resistors, leds, caps, etc. before placing
on the breadboard. Right now I use them with stock lead lengths.

Fat fingers and pushing in those tiny wires - so often a wire or
lead would rather bend over than go into the hole.? Then there is
the problem of getting the fingers down in-between the components to
push in the wires and leads - I think I need to work more with
needle nose pliers and perhaps a larger board will give me a bit
more finger room.

Working backwards after the changes and taking the prototype from
the bread board and re-creating a circuit for the final build.? I
screwed up big time on the last two attempts at this.? To help with
that, this time I am working from a layout that is "ready for
printing".? Then, hopefully with a bit of dicipline, as I make
changes on the breadboard, I will also change the layout in the
software.

I am sure there are many other frustrations too that I have
experienced, but will try to remember them as I go along.? You guys
have all done this so many times, I am sure all the hassels I have
you have already solved many times over :-)

Chris







Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS

Stefan Trethan
 

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:53:12 +0200, lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:




Keeping component lead from shorting out against other components

and leads. I suspect that two things will help here.

1) Bigger boards allow for more room between components

2) Triming the leads of resistors, leds, caps, etc. before placing

on the breadboard. Right now I use them with stock lead lengths.

I'm always outright amazed how little problems i have with all those blank leads in easy touching distance.

In the beginning i slid pieces of wire insulation over the leads, somewhat color coded for resistor value (e.g. orange for 10k, red for 1k, yellow for 100k), but now i just don't bother not having had any real problem with it.

What helps with the "fat fingers" is to make meter probes that are stiff and a little longer, so you can "poke them in" through the ratsnest from above the mess. those probes are what i need to move most often so it pays to have them easy to handle.

I would expect tweezers could help also.

Most annoying is when those boards get old and the springs get tired and intermittent. I gather 3M made/makes boards with some warranty for that, not sure...

ST


Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS

 

Wow,

Keep these tips and pointer coming! I need all the help I can get
to work with them (I don't like using them).

What is helping...

Modules when I can. I am making them up as I need them. Slows down
the process overall, but much better in the long run.

Taking a bit more time on checking/rechecking, double checking etc.
It's so easy to get messed up with a lot of wires and ICs.

What I have trouble with...

Loops on wires - I am getting to be a Klutz! Which is a very bad
thing considering what I do for a living! It seems as though if
there is a wire with a loop, or even a component with leads long
enough that can catch on something, it will! All it takes is one
catch and I have a mess to deal with - very, VERY frustrating.

Keeping component lead from shorting out against other components
and leads. I suspect that two things will help here.
1) Bigger boards allow for more room between components
2) Triming the leads of resistors, leds, caps, etc. before placing
on the breadboard. Right now I use them with stock lead lengths.

Fat fingers and pushing in those tiny wires - so often a wire or
lead would rather bend over than go into the hole. Then there is
the problem of getting the fingers down in-between the components to
push in the wires and leads - I think I need to work more with
needle nose pliers and perhaps a larger board will give me a bit
more finger room.

Working backwards after the changes and taking the prototype from
the bread board and re-creating a circuit for the final build. I
screwed up big time on the last two attempts at this. To help with
that, this time I am working from a layout that is "ready for
printing". Then, hopefully with a bit of dicipline, as I make
changes on the breadboard, I will also change the layout in the
software.

I am sure there are many other frustrations too that I have
experienced, but will try to remember them as I go along. You guys
have all done this so many times, I am sure all the hassels I have
you have already solved many times over :-)

Chris


Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween

 

Getting started early this year - Halloween is just around the corner!

Richard
I missed your notes on last years project. how did the kids like it ?

Dave


Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS

 

4) Break your circuit down into sections and build
each section into certian areas on the board. This
will also make debugging go smoother. i.e. if the PWM
controller is not working you know exactally where it
is and what wires are connected to it.
This is a variation of the tip I offered when you first started. make
smaller boards as plug and play units.

you can put an op-amp on a board with all the supporting pots and
whatever and then only have a few leads to deal with.

there are certain circuits you use over and over, so making them as
plug in modules makes things much easier later.

a couple notes on that.

you can buy individual recpticles for resistors ends. that way, you
can swap out resistors much easier. cutting apart an chip socket
yields similar plugs, but the holes are usually too large for resistors.

using a 90 deg single row header allows you to plug your board into
your prototype board in an end-on fashion. saves space.

Also, as you build, some circuits will act funny. proto boards are
notorious for poor connections.

And if you have a circuit you need to isolate, either because it makes
too much noise, or it is too suseptable to noise, you can put that on
a smaller board.

Another possibility is to put 2 rows of 25 sq pin headers on opposite
sides of the board (for stability) and in your final project, you can
plug that section in as a daughter card. or optional feature.


Dave


Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!

 

I use the prebuilt jumpers from the Wire Jumper Kit to route power and
ground to the various components This keeps
that portion close to the board and less likely to be disturbed.

Then I use the Reinforced Wire Jumpers to do the signal interconnect.
I have all 3 lengths and I will take the time to find the shortest
workable length. On small breadboards, 4" will reach everywhere but I
will use 2" if it will work.

I also take the 8" jumpers and cut off one end and install a female
contact. This way I can interface to header pins on other circuit
boards (microcontrollers and such).

Some place between prototype board and PCBs, I use a lot of these:


Richard


Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!

Stefan Trethan
 

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:05:00 +0200, Shawn Standfast <sstandfast@...> wrote:




6) Be careful when pushing wires/leads into the holes

on the board. Too much pressure can cause the lead to

make contact with the rows next to it.



How did you manage that?

The springs on my boards are closed at the bottom, i wouldn't see how the wire can "get out"?


I agree with all your suggestions, only for the wire length i use wires which are all 10cm long. I found it too annoying to deal with even two different wire lengths and i don't want to have to look and select a length only to find it just too short. The loops don't bother me, i rather like that one can easily hold the wires to push them in. If they are flat against the breadboard i find it hard to push them in through the 90 degree bend.


Also make probes that fit the breadboard and are not so large to damage it. For the meters and also for the scope. I'm lucky enough to have a few HP miniature probes which are like made exactly for the application.

ST


Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!

 

Great advice Shawn - thanks much!

Chris

This
is an okay
process for really small simple projects, but for
the more
complicated ones, it isn't that good - very wasteful
and time
consuming.
You also forgot expensive! At about $5.00 a pop for a
4"x6" dual sided copperclad "blank" a few mistakes
adds up really quickly. :)

The upside to that process though is if it works,
you are done!
Also, if you want a lot of practice making PCBs,
it's a good process
to follow as you get a lot of practice ;-)
That is true...

However, when you get a couple
of ICs on them
and then connect all the resistors and I/Os etc. it
turns into a
rats nest really quickly. But, I will force my self
to play with
the rats if that's what it takes to finish up a
couple of these
projects a bit more quickly :-)
A couple tricks that I've picked when prototyping on
breadboard:
1) Keep all leads as short as possible.

2) Keep all traces as close to the breadboard as
possible. (This is a byproduct of using the shortest
leads possible) When your leads are close to the
breadboard you avoid creating a "rats-nest" for
longer. It also will help reduce wires pulling loose
as there will not be any "loops" to snag or pull on.

3) COLOR-CODE! Try to be consistant when using
colored wires, i.e. green for power, white for gnd,
red for inputs etc... This will make debugging go
much easier.

4) Break your circuit down into sections and build
each section into certian areas on the board. This
will also make debugging go smoother. i.e. if the PWM
controller is not working you know exactally where it
is and what wires are connected to it.

5) Put a LED indicator along with a "fools" diode
across the power rails to let you know that the board
is powered and in case you connect something wrong and
short the ground and power rails the diode will
hopefully save the rest of the circuit.

6) Be careful when pushing wires/leads into the holes
on the board. Too much pressure can cause the lead to
make contact with the rows next to it. It can not
only damage stuff when power is applied but it can
make debugging a real pain.

Follow these few guidelines and you should have no
problem.

Good luck and have fun!

Shawn



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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!

 

--- lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:

This
is an okay
process for really small simple projects, but for
the more
complicated ones, it isn't that good - very wasteful
and time
consuming.
You also forgot expensive! At about $5.00 a pop for a
4"x6" dual sided copperclad "blank" a few mistakes
adds up really quickly. :)

The upside to that process though is if it works,
you are done!
Also, if you want a lot of practice making PCBs,
it's a good process
to follow as you get a lot of practice ;-)
That is true...

However, when you get a couple
of ICs on them
and then connect all the resistors and I/Os etc. it
turns into a
rats nest really quickly. But, I will force my self
to play with
the rats if that's what it takes to finish up a
couple of these
projects a bit more quickly :-)
A couple tricks that I've picked when prototyping on
breadboard:
1) Keep all leads as short as possible.

2) Keep all traces as close to the breadboard as
possible. (This is a byproduct of using the shortest
leads possible) When your leads are close to the
breadboard you avoid creating a "rats-nest" for
longer. It also will help reduce wires pulling loose
as there will not be any "loops" to snag or pull on.

3) COLOR-CODE! Try to be consistant when using
colored wires, i.e. green for power, white for gnd,
red for inputs etc... This will make debugging go
much easier.

4) Break your circuit down into sections and build
each section into certian areas on the board. This
will also make debugging go smoother. i.e. if the PWM
controller is not working you know exactally where it
is and what wires are connected to it.

5) Put a LED indicator along with a "fools" diode
across the power rails to let you know that the board
is powered and in case you connect something wrong and
short the ground and power rails the diode will
hopefully save the rest of the circuit.

6) Be careful when pushing wires/leads into the holes
on the board. Too much pressure can cause the lead to
make contact with the rows next to it. It can not
only damage stuff when power is applied but it can
make debugging a real pain.

Follow these few guidelines and you should have no
problem.

Good luck and have fun!

Shawn



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Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!

 

Well, I was doing most of my prototyping on etched PCBs. I would
draw up the layout in my PCB software, print it on the laser
printer, etch it, build it, and then test it. This is an okay
process for really small simple projects, but for the more
complicated ones, it isn't that good - very wasteful and time
consuming.

The upside to that process though is if it works, you are done!
Also, if you want a lot of practice making PCBs, it's a good process
to follow as you get a lot of practice ;-)

I moved my latest projects (or tried to) on breadboards as they are
just too complex to test and prototype the other way. The problem
is, I only have a few small breadboards - the biggest being 3" x
6".

Last night I ordered up a couple of the big ones with 3220 tie
points. I am hoping those will be big enough for me to do my layout
on and yet still be able to see through the gobs of wires :-)

I can see why using them is a nearly required step in the
design/test process. However, when you get a couple of ICs on them
and then connect all the resistors and I/Os etc. it turns into a
rats nest really quickly. But, I will force my self to play with
the rats if that's what it takes to finish up a couple of these
projects a bit more quickly :-)

Chris