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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýIn a message dated 4/28/2006 8:49:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
dave_mucha@... writes:
proto boards are notorious for poor connections.<< I would have thought so, after the first few years of using
several.? But in 30+ years using the "breadboard socket things", I have
NEVER experienced a bad connection nor a "short" inside the socket!? And I
have BAD luck, so they MUST be built right!?
?
I also TRY to always use bright-tinned wire, not "bare
copper".?
? |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýIn a message dated 4/28/2006 8:30:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rstofer@... writes:
I use the prebuilt jumpers from the Wire Jumper Kit to route power and ground to the various components http://tinyurl.com/jjjdq? This keeps that portion close to the board and less likely to be disturbed. And I thought I? was
slow!? I figured out within 48 hours after getting my first box of
"pre-bent, pre-stripped" breadboard wires that the COLORS were "tenths of the
inch" (i.e., a yellow was 0.4", a blue was 0.6", etc.? "Number of holes" if
you are a metric-thinking person.)? "Point-to-point" without slack is the
NORM when doing HF or RF work, isn't it?? It is far easier to "see" a
circuit on the breadboard with short-as-possible wires!? Just common
sense!?? I can't imagine trying to reach in with a 'scope-probe to
touch a specific terminal on a 40-pin IC when there were LOOPS sticking up all
over, like a jungle-forest!? EEEEEEEEWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
? |
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Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween
--- In Electronics_101@..., "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote: they show only the most extreme one".We have those too! In fact, we bought a string of pumpkin light fixtures to run along the walkway. Compared to almost any real 'haunt' mine is tame and minimalist. Some folks get really carried away. But, I think most of those 'haunts' are for adults whereas mine is for the Trick or Treater in the neighborhood. Getting too carried away with effects will probably garner a lot of negative feedback. Many of the kids are quite young. Heck, my grandson, at 7, wasn't comfortable with the show until he had been around it for a few hours. Richard |
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Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween
That has been replaced by a foam facsimile, with an flickering LED circuit.
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Of course, a scare the hell out of em 130db alarm circuit has been added. Along with in series triggers a dye loaded solenoid controlled sprinkler head. Its all captured for posterity with motion sensor activated cameras using IR illuminators. Just in case folks still take advantage of mischief night. Oh you mean effects! Gory Corey csminion@... Look for MinionsWeb at The Great Lakes Fright Fest June 2-4, 2006 , IronStock The Midwest Haunters Convention , and HorrorFind Weekend -----Original Message-----
From: Electronics_101@... [mailto:Electronics_101@...]On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:44 PM To: Electronics_101@... Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween One sees the christmas decorations on TV and shakes the head "well, they show only the most extreme one". But it seems to me, you guys truly _are_ quite insane when it comes to these things. What on earth happened to the pumpkins with the center and some facial features cut out and a candle lit inside? ST On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:26:08 +0200, rtstofer <rstofer@...> wrote: I think some liked the entire show. Others just grabbed the candy and |
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Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween
Stefan Trethan
One sees the christmas decorations on TV and shakes the head "well, they show only the most extreme one".
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But it seems to me, you guys truly _are_ quite insane when it comes to these things. What on earth happened to the pumpkins with the center and some facial features cut out and a candle lit inside? ST On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:26:08 +0200, rtstofer <rstofer@...> wrote:
I think some liked the entire show. Others just grabbed the candy and |
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Re: AVR programmer question - Halloween
--- In Electronics_101@..., "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@...>
wrote: I think some liked the entire show. Others just grabbed the candy andGetting started early this year - Halloween is just around the corner!I missed your notes on last years project. how did the kids like it ? ran - couldn't care less about the effects. I had a skeleton in a rocking chair with a snoring sound effect synchronized to the chair motion. It was triggered with a motion sensor on approach, not retreat. This year I will upgrade that with an animated skull and an audio track "Why have you disturbed my nap! Get your candy and run! I want to Rest In Peace" or something like that. I had a thunder sound track and synchronized lightning bouncing on the side of the garage wall. There is a small planter area right there and I had an animated headstone synchronized to the thunder/lightning. These were triggered by a motion sensor. I also had a Flying Crank Ghost behind one of the large front windows. This was illuminated by black light and almost every adult asked how it was done. The kids just grabbed the candy and ran. This year I will add the animated owl - probably triggered by people walking up the sidewalk. The mounting location is still TBD. I want to do a Monster In A Box or a pop-up but the powers that be have nixed that idea. She doesn't want to terrify the young ones. I will be doing a lot more with sound tracks. I bought 4 of the Rogue Robotics uMP3 players so I will have a long playing track of haunting sounds in the graveyard and perhaps something similar below the Flying Crank Ghost. I may still do something with another skeleton. Perhaps some fade lighting and a little animation. The Bucky skeletons are on sale through a group event on Technical Insanity. Instead of the usual $200, they are just $60. Those and a bag of bones should really add to the theme. Richard |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!
Stefan Trethan
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:46:34 +0200, Shawn Standfast <sstandfast@...> wrote:
In a nutshell - cheap breadboard. I was fumbling I can see how that would take a while! For sure i wouldn't have suspected that soon... ST |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS
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-----Message d'origine-----... I use stock leads until I determine the proper component. Once I establish the value, I trim the leads and try to keep it just above the breadboard, less risk of screw-ups. I used to keep stock leads all the time, but lately I've learned that trimming is VERY useful. Fat fingers and pushing in those tiny wires - so often a wire orI can't tell you exactly what gauge wire I use, but it is stiff enough to stand on end and keep 'bends' easily. I buy it in multi-wire cables, strip the cover with an exacto and yank out the different colour-coded single-strand wires. I cut 10 feet lengths and roll them into little balls, when I run out of one colour I cut another length. Working backwards after the changes and taking the prototype fromI try to keep several 'versions' of a working circuit; schematic in QCAD, a breadboard and an actual complete PCB if possible. Robert :) |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!
--- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
How did you manage that?In a nutshell - cheap breadboard. I was fumbling around trying to put a wire in place. In doing so I pushed one side of a resistor down to where half of the lead was now "in" the board. Apparently, the lead was pushed far enough in so that it was sticking off the "pad" benith it and making contact with the row right above it. It wasn't a serious problem, it was just a pull-up for an I2C bus, but it sure did take a little while to figure out why the clock and data lines were always in synch. Shawn __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS
Daniel Nicoson
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI use a pair of small needle nose pliers that are spring loaded open.? They are my fingers for moving everything. ? Even when I¡¯m on a roll, thinking I¡¯ve got the circuit fully worked out in my head, I force myself to create a complete schematic before starting at the breadboard.? It¡¯s amazing what you realize needs to be considered as you work through the schematic. ? Then as I build the circuit on the breadboard, I have a print out of the schematic laying right on the work space.? As I change a resistor value etc I can note the change right then with a pen, takes no time.? Then before finishing the work session I update the schematic file on the computer.? All my schematic files start with that day¡¯s date.? That way I can always go back to the previous schematic if I have a real problem.? This makes for a lot of schematic files but hard disk space is cheap.? ? I also try to make some basic notes on the day¡¯s work session.? Primarily this is to record my mind-set for the day¡¯s work session.? What did I think I was doing, what did I learn, what were my reasons for a particular change.? That has been helpful when I come back to a project after a long period of time. ? I do check the value of every resistor and cap with my multi-meter before I insert it into the breadboard.? Sounds slow and it is, but I am always sure what is going on with this method. The color codes on many of the resistors I use don¡¯t seem to be easily read anyway, so this insures accuracy. ? Just some thoughts. ? Dan Nicoson ? -----Original
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS
Stefan Trethan
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:53:12 +0200, lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
I'm always outright amazed how little problems i have with all those blank leads in easy touching distance. In the beginning i slid pieces of wire insulation over the leads, somewhat color coded for resistor value (e.g. orange for 10k, red for 1k, yellow for 100k), but now i just don't bother not having had any real problem with it. What helps with the "fat fingers" is to make meter probes that are stiff and a little longer, so you can "poke them in" through the ratsnest from above the mess. those probes are what i need to move most often so it pays to have them easy to handle. I would expect tweezers could help also. Most annoying is when those boards get old and the springs get tired and intermittent. I gather 3M made/makes boards with some warranty for that, not sure... ST |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS
Wow,
Keep these tips and pointer coming! I need all the help I can get to work with them (I don't like using them). What is helping... Modules when I can. I am making them up as I need them. Slows down the process overall, but much better in the long run. Taking a bit more time on checking/rechecking, double checking etc. It's so easy to get messed up with a lot of wires and ICs. What I have trouble with... Loops on wires - I am getting to be a Klutz! Which is a very bad thing considering what I do for a living! It seems as though if there is a wire with a loop, or even a component with leads long enough that can catch on something, it will! All it takes is one catch and I have a mess to deal with - very, VERY frustrating. Keeping component lead from shorting out against other components and leads. I suspect that two things will help here. 1) Bigger boards allow for more room between components 2) Triming the leads of resistors, leds, caps, etc. before placing on the breadboard. Right now I use them with stock lead lengths. Fat fingers and pushing in those tiny wires - so often a wire or lead would rather bend over than go into the hole. Then there is the problem of getting the fingers down in-between the components to push in the wires and leads - I think I need to work more with needle nose pliers and perhaps a larger board will give me a bit more finger room. Working backwards after the changes and taking the prototype from the bread board and re-creating a circuit for the final build. I screwed up big time on the last two attempts at this. To help with that, this time I am working from a layout that is "ready for printing". Then, hopefully with a bit of dicipline, as I make changes on the breadboard, I will also change the layout in the software. I am sure there are many other frustrations too that I have experienced, but will try to remember them as I go along. You guys have all done this so many times, I am sure all the hassels I have you have already solved many times over :-) Chris |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - TIPS
4) Break your circuit down into sections and buildThis is a variation of the tip I offered when you first started. make smaller boards as plug and play units. you can put an op-amp on a board with all the supporting pots and whatever and then only have a few leads to deal with. there are certain circuits you use over and over, so making them as plug in modules makes things much easier later. a couple notes on that. you can buy individual recpticles for resistors ends. that way, you can swap out resistors much easier. cutting apart an chip socket yields similar plugs, but the holes are usually too large for resistors. using a 90 deg single row header allows you to plug your board into your prototype board in an end-on fashion. saves space. Also, as you build, some circuits will act funny. proto boards are notorious for poor connections. And if you have a circuit you need to isolate, either because it makes too much noise, or it is too suseptable to noise, you can put that on a smaller board. Another possibility is to put 2 rows of 25 sq pin headers on opposite sides of the board (for stability) and in your final project, you can plug that section in as a daughter card. or optional feature. Dave |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!
I use the prebuilt jumpers from the Wire Jumper Kit to route power and
ground to the various components This keeps that portion close to the board and less likely to be disturbed. Then I use the Reinforced Wire Jumpers to do the signal interconnect. I have all 3 lengths and I will take the time to find the shortest workable length. On small breadboards, 4" will reach everywhere but I will use 2" if it will work. I also take the 8" jumpers and cut off one end and install a female contact. This way I can interface to header pins on other circuit boards (microcontrollers and such). Some place between prototype board and PCBs, I use a lot of these: Richard |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!
Stefan Trethan
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:05:00 +0200, Shawn Standfast <sstandfast@...> wrote:
How did you manage that? The springs on my boards are closed at the bottom, i wouldn't see how the wire can "get out"? I agree with all your suggestions, only for the wire length i use wires which are all 10cm long. I found it too annoying to deal with even two different wire lengths and i don't want to have to look and select a length only to find it just too short. The loops don't bother me, i rather like that one can easily hold the wires to push them in. If they are flat against the breadboard i find it hard to push them in through the 90 degree bend. Also make probes that fit the breadboard and are not so large to damage it. For the meters and also for the scope. I'm lucky enough to have a few HP miniature probes which are like made exactly for the application. ST |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!
Great advice Shawn - thanks much!
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Chris Thisis an okayYou also forgot expensive! At about $5.00 a pop for a |
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Re: Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!
--- lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
This is an okayYou also forgot expensive! At about $5.00 a pop for a 4"x6" dual sided copperclad "blank" a few mistakes adds up really quickly. :) The upside to that process though is if it works,That is true... However, when you get a coupleA couple tricks that I've picked when prototyping on breadboard: 1) Keep all leads as short as possible. 2) Keep all traces as close to the breadboard as possible. (This is a byproduct of using the shortest leads possible) When your leads are close to the breadboard you avoid creating a "rats-nest" for longer. It also will help reduce wires pulling loose as there will not be any "loops" to snag or pull on. 3) COLOR-CODE! Try to be consistant when using colored wires, i.e. green for power, white for gnd, red for inputs etc... This will make debugging go much easier. 4) Break your circuit down into sections and build each section into certian areas on the board. This will also make debugging go smoother. i.e. if the PWM controller is not working you know exactally where it is and what wires are connected to it. 5) Put a LED indicator along with a "fools" diode across the power rails to let you know that the board is powered and in case you connect something wrong and short the ground and power rails the diode will hopefully save the rest of the circuit. 6) Be careful when pushing wires/leads into the holes on the board. Too much pressure can cause the lead to make contact with the rows next to it. It can not only damage stuff when power is applied but it can make debugging a real pain. Follow these few guidelines and you should have no problem. Good luck and have fun! Shawn __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around |
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Breadboards are coming my way - I give up!
Well, I was doing most of my prototyping on etched PCBs. I would
draw up the layout in my PCB software, print it on the laser printer, etch it, build it, and then test it. This is an okay process for really small simple projects, but for the more complicated ones, it isn't that good - very wasteful and time consuming. The upside to that process though is if it works, you are done! Also, if you want a lot of practice making PCBs, it's a good process to follow as you get a lot of practice ;-) I moved my latest projects (or tried to) on breadboards as they are just too complex to test and prototype the other way. The problem is, I only have a few small breadboards - the biggest being 3" x 6". Last night I ordered up a couple of the big ones with 3220 tie points. I am hoping those will be big enough for me to do my layout on and yet still be able to see through the gobs of wires :-) I can see why using them is a nearly required step in the design/test process. However, when you get a couple of ICs on them and then connect all the resistors and I/Os etc. it turns into a rats nest really quickly. But, I will force my self to play with the rats if that's what it takes to finish up a couple of these projects a bit more quickly :-) Chris |
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