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Re: WN4ISX made a mistake!!!!

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Well, if the switch turns on when the AC is at a peak voltage, the dV/dT will be VERY large. xC will be very low as a result.

Donald.

On 12/17/24 18:25, wn4isx via groups.io wrote:

Hum. Never considered that, I don't doubt you but will the instanious current ever exceed the Xc?
?
It feels like the maximum current can't exceed the Xc.....and yea feelings are important but engineering is about science and getting the math right backed up by real world experiments.
?
I just spent 30 minutes working the math several ways and can't come up with a fast transient from 60Hz, time for real world experiment.
?
Sooo I could add the resistor, or, one of the two dozen 30A zero crossing solid state relays I've been trying to come up with a reson not to send them to recycle, or....
?
I used a similar scheme with a #47 light bulb, AC mains in, capacitor, #47 bulb, neutral, for at least a decade from 1960 until 1970 as a pilot light for a radio. I'll accept the resistance and inductance of a #47 bulb is very different from a string of LEDs.
?
This is something interesting to test, I have a Tektronix CT-1 current probe, bandwidth? 20kHz to 1GHz.
My scope has specs claimed to be good to 200, it will display 144MHz 2M signal with no obvious distortion.
?
0.5uf, 60Hz has an Xc of? 5305ohms. I'll measure it two ways, one direct AC hot to capacitor line through CT-1, to nuetral, then AC to capacitor to 100 ohms wire through CT-1, to neutral and see the max current peak on the scope.
?
Ought to be interesting.
?
And I'll use Teflon wire rated at 2kV for the pass through wire through the CT-1.??


Loss of 900MHz license free band

wn4isx
 

Not directly electronics but many in the electronics world use 900MHz devices for all sorts of applications. As a license free band, it's attractive for experimental remote control, remote monitoring (my remote Cosmic Ray monitoring project uses a one way 900MHz data link, our church uses 900MHz wireless microphones, my wife has a a pair of 900MHz headphones that blow the socks off any Bluetooth device)

?

There is an ISM allocation used for industrial, scientific and manufacturing. If NextNav succeeds in convincing the FCC to either sell or simply assign large parts of the 900MHz band, a lot of users are going to lose.

?

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/09/nextnavs-callous-band-grab-privatize-900-mhz

?

I'd say write the FCC to complain but the FCC appears to have become the federal governments frequency sales store.

?

Look at the UHF repack as an example.

?

I posted this more out of frustration then expecting anything any of us do to have any effect on the FCC. I expect them to go after the 2M and 70cm ham allocations any day now.

?


Re: WN4ISX made a mistake!!!!

wn4isx
 

Hum. Never considered that, I don't doubt you but will the instanious current ever exceed the Xc?
?
It feels like the maximum current can't exceed the Xc.....and yea feelings are important but engineering is about science and getting the math right backed up by real world experiments.
?
I just spent 30 minutes working the math several ways and can't come up with a fast transient from 60Hz, time for real world experiment.
?
Sooo I could add the resistor, or, one of the two dozen 30A zero crossing solid state relays I've been trying to come up with a reson not to send them to recycle, or....
?
I used a similar scheme with a #47 light bulb, AC mains in, capacitor, #47 bulb, neutral, for at least a decade from 1960 until 1970 as a pilot light for a radio. I'll accept the resistance and inductance of a #47 bulb is very different from a string of LEDs.
?
This is something interesting to test, I have a Tektronix CT-1 current probe, bandwidth? 20kHz to 1GHz.
My scope has specs claimed to be good to 200, it will display 144MHz 2M signal with no obvious distortion.
?
0.5uf, 60Hz has an Xc of? 5305ohms. I'll measure it two ways, one direct AC hot to capacitor line through CT-1, to nuetral, then AC to capacitor to 100 ohms wire through CT-1, to neutral and see the max current peak on the scope.
?
Ought to be interesting.
?
And I'll use Teflon wire rated at 2kV for the pass through wire through the CT-1.??


Re: WN4ISX made a mistake!!!!

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

One more detail:

You previously mentioned that you replaced the resistor with a fuse.

You ought to have a small value resistor there.

If the power is switched on at the peak of the sine wave, an extremely high current, narrow pulse will happen trying to charge the capacitor instantaneously.? The current is basically only limited by the bridge diodes¡¯ internal resistance and the LEDs resistance.

The series resistor is chosen to limit that turn on transient current.

Bertho

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of wn4isx via groups.io
Sent: 17 December, 2024 16:17
To: [email protected]
Subject: [electronics101] WN4ISX made a mistake!!!!

?

I made a mistake, in my description of a ultra simple current limited LED driver.

Call the cyber police to take my PCs from me.

?

[Me making a mistake ought to make at least one person in this group smile. I live to please.]

?

I transposed the position of two components.

?

The capacitor goes between the AC Hot and full wave bridge, not the other way around.

?

The AC from the mains passes through the capacitor, the current is determined by the capacitor value (Xc) and mains frequency.

?

Higher capacitance equals higher current.

?

The now current limited AC passes through the full wave bridge producing 120Hz pulses of DC (100Hz pulses of DC in 50Hz nations]

?

This safely (if the capacitor value isn't too large) provides current to power/drive a LED or LEDs. My fake florescent LED replacement tubes have a lot of small SMD LEDs. I quit counting at 50ish. I'd guess there are about 200.

?

Note that is a guess and I won't pretend it is "mainly accurate," don't know, don't care.

?


WN4ISX made a mistake!!!!

wn4isx
 

I made a mistake, in my description of a ultra simple current limited LED driver.

Call the cyber police to take my PCs from me.

?

[Me making a mistake ought to make at least one person in this group smile. I live to please.]

?

I transposed the position of two components.

?

The capacitor goes between the AC Hot and full wave bridge, not the other way around.

?

The AC from the mains passes through the capacitor, the current is determined by the capacitor value (Xc) and mains frequency.

?

Higher capacitance equals higher current.

?

The now current limited AC passes through the full wave bridge producing 120Hz pulses of DC (100Hz pulses of DC in 50Hz nations]

?

This safely (if the capacitor value isn't too large) provides current to power/drive a LED or LEDs. My fake florescent LED replacement tubes have a lot of small SMD LEDs. I quit counting at 50ish. I'd guess there are about 200.

?

Note that is a guess and I won't pretend it is "mainly accurate," don't know, don't care.

?

I laid it all out on my work bench, out of the protective plastic tube, and used a capacitor substitution box to pick the 'right' value capacitor.

?

I kept feeling the LEDs and when they were just perceptible warm I backed down one step.

?

Is the brightness optimal? Snort hardly.

?

Is it efficient? Give me a break, nope, hardly.

?

But 4 of them provide about 10% more light as 2 real florescent lamp tubes.

?

Oh that 10% figure comes from a 50 or 60 year old professional light meter that, in 2008, agreed with a new, NIST traceable calibration, light meter, so I suspect it hasn't degraded in the 16 years....might well be wrong ...sort of "I hope it's mainly accurate."

?

Best I could do on a moment's notice. I need to take it in to the lab for calibration....but then what does the odd spectra do to calibration....

?

And yea I had to rewire the fixture. Oh how sad. I dispensed with sockets because it was cheaper and easier, I'd have had to go to a real electrical supply house for sockets and they might not sell to a civilian they don't know, my EE diploma would get laughs, and EE can't change a light switch for hire in Kentucky. So I hardwired everything and used home made Lexan spacers. Looks more then OK, actually looks store bought if you don't look too close....but who cranes their neck to inspect a florescent light fixture?

?

The LEDs face down so the reflector is sort of useless.

?

So yea WN4ISX made a mistake.

?

Yawn.

?

?

I'll tell on my self.... during a graduation when we used rented professional 2M business band radios and I ID with my ham call instead of my name. That was a really big no no, but I was used to using my ham call on an HT and habbit won over the law. And there were negative consequences.

?

The company monitored all comss with their radios and reported me to the FCC. The company owner was beyond upset. I have no idea why, it wasn't like anyone was going to waste time listening to 3 TV crews rush from staging area to staging areas and trying to set up with zero time.

I was part of it and it was BORING!

?

?But the Freaky Candy Company has zero sense of humor.

?

I still have the pink ticket framed on my wall in a place of pride, Paraphrased is says "Thou shalt not make this mistake again upon risk of forfiture of license."

They get real twitchy over IDing the wrong license in the wrong radio service.

?

[Again, damn sure wish I could spell.]

?

?

Sorry I'm far from perfect but mainly accurate. At least I got the link to the graphic of the diagram right...


Re: CAN LIN & DNA

wn4isx
 

Combined response to several related posts....

Again

From Kia

https://www.kia.com/us/en/privacy

Sensitive Personal Information.

This category may include Social Security number, driver¡¯s license, state identification card, or passport number; account log-in, financial account, debit card, or credit card number in combination with any required security or access code, password, or credentials allowing access to an account; precise geolocation; racial or ethnic origin, religious or philosophical beliefs; union membership; genetic data; unique biometric information; citizenship or immigration status; contents of certain mail, emails, and text messages; or health, sex life or sexual orientation information.

?[Collected?] Yes

?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please note the genetic data.

The privacy notice says the car can collect this data.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://owners.kia.com/us/en/privacy-policy.html?_cl=zUZJXivZklINSZMXXvgtS69w

-------------------------------

I'm only including " racial or ethnic origin;" which again requires a fairly complete/complex DNA analysis to determine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to main accurate, I'm happy if I'm 95% accurate because accuracy depends on complete knowledge of a subject and knowledge is expanding at a geometric rate, I doubt if anyone can stay 99% accurate given the rapid expansion of knowledge.

?

Consider the new magnetic phenomena...I had no idea it existed until it was mentioned here. I try to keep up with topics that interest me the most. I'm a lot more up to date on Clovis Amerind Culture and The Younger Dryas event then I am nuclear weapons.

?

I am extremely familiar with the electrical system in our 2001 Volvo S60 and am woefully and willfully ignorant on the electrical system of a gasoline powered 2025 Volvo anything.

?

Toyota apparently added CAN to the 2003 Echo, so my knowledge of 2001 Echoes would be mainly inaccurate, however that knowledge is "mainly accurate" for 2000 and 2002 Echos.

?

So mainly accurate is probably good enough for my life and goals.

?

Another real world example, let's say I need an emergency antenna for 3.58MHz, [300/3.58] divided by 2 would give me the approximate length of each leg of a dipole antenna in meters, and, while not perfect because of end effect and the effect of height over the earth and the conductivity of the earth below said dipole, the antenna would work reasonable well, probably as good as 95% as good as though I did everything absolutely right, measure the VSWR, adjust the leg length or change the height of the dipole to achieve a perfect 1:1 VSWR.

?

Of course that 1:1 VSWR would be at the end of a feedline and, unless I used a matching transformer to transform the 72~75 ohms of the antenna to 50 ohm coax, or a balan (balanced to unbalanced) transformer to couple to 75 ohm coax, I couldn't be certain the 1:1 was really 1:1. One can spend a lot of time tweaking minor variables that will have no discernable influence on behavior or function.

?

So, even if I do everything to the best of modern technology, it will only be 'mainly accurate.'

?

I'd stick a piece about engineering back in the days of the slide rule when everything was mainly accurate.

?

My Echo specs a tire pressure of 32 PSI. Will 32.1 or 31 or 33 make any difference in drivability? Gas mileage? Tire wear? Doubt it, don't care, is my gauge 100% accurate, can I trust it when it says 32PSI? We have 4 "identical" [of the same manufacturer bought at the same time...but are they the same inside?], they all give the same reading. Is it accurate? Is there a design flaw? How can I verify this one way or the other? My compressor also has gauges, they almost agree with our tire pressure gauges, they are about a half PSA [eye balling here] so which do I trust? Either? Both? Neither?

?

I consider ~1/2PSA to be "mainly accurate" with our instrumentation and have way too many other things to worry about then "Which gauge is the most accurate?"

?

Although I do wonder about the temperature effect on the little brass (probably brass, every gauge I've opened has brass) bulb that is filled, distended and the distortion produces the PSI indication.

?

Is it the same at 0F and 100F?

?

I've had to check tires at each extreme.

?

I won't go into "Which of my voltmeters is really 100% accurate." I know which one I trust the most, it gets checked at the EE instrumentation and measurement lab every 6 months or so, has been accurate since March 1974, I expect any gross failure will be obvious...could be wrong.

?

Or consider an oscilloscope, assuming the inards are 100% accurate, how accurate can I read a line of illuminated phosphor or simulation on a LCD screen.

?

The line has a physical width, can I be certain it's 1V or might it be 1.001V or 99.09V. Assuming 1V is mainly accurate is probably the most logical thing to do.

?

Although only a fool or new tech would try to achieve more then 0.1V mainly accurate on most scopes because they are not designed to give 5 digit accuracy.

?

I suspect if you are honest, you'll admit most decisions in your life are based on the "mainly accurate" concept.

?

BTW, I didn't come up with 'mainly accurate' it came from a presentation by some NASA/USAF engineers to my engineering class.

?

One older guy said something like "Striving for perfection is a waste of time because you will never know all the variables to even 6 places, go for the best data you can obtain, do your math right and it will work out."

?

Which can be translate to "mainly right."

?

The orthopedist who replaced my knees had many responsibilities....some shared with other people like the anathesthologist. [God I wish I could SPELL!]

?

But neither had ran into someone with congenital?methemoglobinemia [look it up, I am not wasting 20 pages with the boring details, let's just say my blood is a bit messed up]. They were uncertain how to sedate me for surgery. The normal method is? spinal block but the drug used might trigger a massive MH event...so they played it safe and knocked me out with a "probably safe medication." I had to sign a waiver acknowledging the limited knowledge on MH triggers.?

?

Did they fail in their responsibility? My knees had to be replaced or I'd be in a wheel chair now.

?

They went with the best data they could find, mainly accurate might well apply.

?

And no one in the hospital knew a single color pulse oximeter is useless with MH attacks. I know quite a bit about MH, probably more then any single doctor or nurse because I have MH. I have over a terabyte of data on MH. There was honest to God near panic when I handed them the paperwork detailing weaknesses of single color pulse oximeters. They don't work too well on carbon monoxide poisoning either. I probably had the only dual color pulse oximeters in the city, quite likely the state. All because a former EE classmate works for a company that makes medical gear, I told him over lunch and he had his team design a dual color pulse oximeter and gave me one. They used theirs and mine, wanted to keep mine because I have cousins with MH and they might show up at the hospital. It might be selfish but I kept mine.?

?

They bought 10.

?

I've been pulled from swimming pools 3 or 4 times because the lifeguard thought I was having a heart attack because I'd gone cyonotic all over. Big Bad Bummer. Cold, intense emotion, fear, many solvents, can trigger MH events. Look up Blue Fugate. forget their geneology, they've got it all wrong. A nephew did not marry his aunt, he married his first cousin on his mothers side. BTW, many states allow first cousin marriages, only NC forbides double first cousin marriages.Bet you didn't know that. That's part of my mainly accurate knowledge of marriage laws in the USA. BTW, I married a nice woman from Northern Kentucky, totally unrelated, who puts up with me and my odd interests. I mean what normal EE cares about "Why did Clovis Culture end?"

?

I could go on but I've beat this dead horse into nice jerky quite well...

?

?


Re: CAN LIN & DNA

 

"only mostly accurate"

Mostly accurate only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

°ù±ð¡¤²õ±è´Ç²Ô¡¤²õ¾±¡¤²ú±ô±ð having an obligation to do something as part of one's job or role


--
G.T.


Re: CAN LIN & DNA

 

"Note IDing racial or etnic origin requires collecting and anayling DNA."

No, it don't!? All they do is ask you to complete the product registration, put a stamp on it and mail it back to them.?

Then, they remove the stamp and expose it to the blue space lasers and Gotcha!?

Geeze where you been?

--
G.T.


Re: "that flagged nebulizer use as smoking"

wn4isx
 

I checked with the KY DOT and our MD before using it while driving and there is no comment, good or bad, about using a nebulizer while driving, the rules concern what is being vaporized. Albuteral is a very mild stimulant that opens the air ways.
?
There are stronger meds for nebulizers that are "contra indicated for operating machinary." One makes you feel like you've had twenty cups of high octane coffee in 5 minutes. I do not use that med after one "I'm lossing my mind!"
?
I will admit having to pull over and park and hack up your lungs is not a lot of fun and coughing that hard while driving would be impossible. But there is about 5 minutes warning "It's coming." The first time a cop stopped and I showed him the output, a large paper cup filled with yellow mucus, she turned away from the car and tossed her cookies.
?
At the local universities some genius discovered one can take 200 proof, 100% alcohol, place it in a nebulizer and get a super fast, super cheap drunk. 1 liter will make over a dozen guys blind frigging drunk.
As a result you have to have a prescription to legally buy a nebulizer in Kentucky, but then KY treats gabapentin like herion.
?
?


Re: CAN LIN & DNA

 

Jen Caltrider, Misha Rykov and Zo? MacDonal, might generate aka (Click Bait) to understand the limits of their imaginations.

I followed the links to NISSAN and the sort of EULangUage we've all ignored to get at that free video, email account, free sample from Sam's Club or the like.? All perfectly legal according to 'our' representatives in 'our' Congress assembled to serve as one of the 'checks and balances' upon 'government over reach" while the Private Sector successfully lobbies them to pass the laws allowing the very data collection complained of.

The word "sex" does not appear in their EULA. Nor does the word 'promise' -

Corporate entities have been collecting customer data, literally since the first commercial transaction.

By no means a defense of the practice, this.? Rather Jus'sayin' it's nothing new. Gerrymandering began long before the governor disclosed that he was amassing data on American citizens for the purpose of rigging elections via clever redistricting.

Your DMV sells your information, your elections commission posts your party affiliation and voting history online for free (and sells it in database form to most anyone with the cash).

Wasn't it (J?) Walter Thompson's agency that weaponized consumer data to defeat the first Universal Health Care measure on the California ballot?

Wasn't Don Draper the first character ever to grab a woman by the pussy on national television? * Madison Avenue has been 'buying data' on consumers 'like forever' and our legislators have gone along for the ride and contributions.

Bottom line is that this shit is pervasive, that it long has been, and that what we are seeing is what or legislators allow to please those they represent in our congress.

We couldah had a Bernie instead of a Hillary but we prefer Capitalism to watch over us. So we reap what we've sown. Live with it.






* Didn't you ever wonder where Donald got the idea?


--
G.T.


Re: Safety when trying to couple a scope to the AC mains

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi,

>> Check out the CAN/LIN thread and look at CAN readers on Amazon.

Actually I was more interested in this new way of quickly diagnosing car problem using something called ¡°pressure pulse sensor¡± :



That yellow plastic sensor is simple to make (I made mine for about $10). ? It¡¯s just a piezo disc inside plastic container (the yellow housing part) with a rubber hose. ? Some people even make them using Tupperware containers as the housing. ? I made mine using PVC plumbing tubes.

?= ?= ?= ?= ?= ?=?

Background info : I was being asked by family friends to help them find good used cars. ?Normally people selling cars do NOT want the buyer to start taking things apart (like removing spark plugs to do piston pressure testing). ? Also those type of work requires a lot of time and sellers don¡¯t want to give that much time. ??

Using this pressure pulse sensor and an oscilloscope, I can very quickly see the :

(1) exhaust pulses
(2) intake pulses
(3) oil dipstick (aka crankcase) pulses?
(4) radiator ?/ coolant air pocket pulses

* Exhaust pulses (from the tailpipe) will show if there¡¯s any irregular exhaust (aka possibly misfire or exhaust valve leaks.

* Intake pulse (from intake air filter area) will show if there¡¯s any intake value leaks

* Oil dipstick pulses will show if there¡¯s any piston ring leaks

* And finally radiator ?/ coolant air pocket pulses will show if there¡¯s head gasket leaks.

?= ?= ?= ?= ?= ?=?

While these tests are not foolproof but it¡¯s very good tests and very fast to move around the car when doing used car inspection.

I use my Bluedriver ODB2 code reader also to check for engine codes. ?But the PRESSURE PULSE sensor testing is purely analog and it can discover things that ODB2 code reader cannot.

?= ?= ?= ?= ?= ?= ?=?

This is the kind of testing I was thinking when I first bought my portable oscilloscope. ?Scoping out 120v mains came later when I got UPS battery backup. ? But I still want to know how I can expand my knowledge of scoping out not just 120v mains but things that are powered by mains power without blowing up my setup.


Jong?






On Dec 16, 2024, at 11:41 AM, wn4isx via groups.io <wn4isx@...> wrote:

?
On Mon, Dec 16, 2024 at 03:44 PM, jong kung wrote:
Also, I want to work on my cars. ?Modern cars are full of fast moving signals. ?Lugging out my bench top scope for car repairs¡­ that¡¯s a lot of work. ?
?
?

?
Check out the CAN/LIN thread and look at CAN readers on Amazon.


Re: Speaking of Oscilloscopes

 

I have that model. Amazing performance for the price.
I seldom use it since I have regular bench oscilloscopes except for when there is no power available or I do not want the headache of moving a regular scope.
Bertho

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of SheldonD via groups.io
Sent: 17 December, 2024 12:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: [electronics101] Speaking of Oscilloscopes

Been kicking around idea of getting a pc based o-scope to keep in my tool box. My first ever was one that connected to a SoundBlaster Pro sound card. Have had a few over the years (portable pc based).

Came across this apparent jewel at Amazon.
To my eye, looks like a winner.
Amazon Share-Link, nothing nefarious beyond screwing up your looked at history.



Thoughts?

SD


Re: Speaking of Oscilloscopes

 

I was looking at Hantek. Their 8 channel would be sweet but sampling falls off quickly and also appears to be geared around automotive environments.

~SD


Re: Speaking of Oscilloscopes

 

Intended purpose is to look at waveforms / triggers of IGBT and their drivers on a 118KW aux pwr supply fed by 800vdc.

Cost is a factor, I can see losing an IGBT & Driver violently and taking out whatever may be connected. Waveforms to actual IGBT are max 30vdc, so can use HV probe to a point. It is not uncommon for flash to occur across isolated area and blow out what has been connected.

I did look at reviews, saw calibration comments.

Needing something... disposable that can still capture pwm down to fractions of a ms.

~SD


Re: Speaking of Oscilloscopes

 

Read the reviews. Not the best out there. This is a good start to at least look at waveforms, but most negative reviews says the calibration is not good.
?
There is the PoScope version that is USB based using a computer connection.?
DerekK
DDK-ICS


Re: Speaking of Oscilloscopes

 

Depending on what you intend to do with it, can be a good choice or not.
From my experience, if it's just for occasional DIY or the like, it's good enough.

If you want something slightly better, WITH after sales service, but without making a hole in your pocket,
my advice falls on HANTEK. Plenty models to choose from.

For the best PC stuff, if you have the budget, PICOSCOPE would be my choice.

Nuno T.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of SheldonD via groups.io
Sent: 17 December 2024 17:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: [electronics101] Speaking of Oscilloscopes

Been kicking around idea of getting a pc based o-scope to keep in my tool box. My first ever was one that connected to a SoundBlaster Pro sound card. Have had a few over the years (portable pc based).

Came across this apparent jewel at Amazon.
To my eye, looks like a winner.
Amazon Share-Link, nothing nefarious beyond screwing up your looked at history.



Thoughts?

SD








--
Nuno T.


Speaking of Oscilloscopes

 

Been kicking around idea of getting a pc based o-scope to keep in my tool box. My first ever was one that connected to a SoundBlaster Pro sound card. Have had a few over the years (portable pc based).

Came across this apparent jewel at Amazon.
To my eye, looks like a winner.
Amazon Share-Link, nothing nefarious beyond screwing up your looked at history.



Thoughts?

SD


Re: You are right though, people should be concerned. Very concerned. And proactive.

 

Some of us are. Which places you on a list of possible [known] subversives.
Yup.

~SD


Re: "that flagged nebulizer use as smoking"

 

Nope, not something that can be used while driving. Or shouldn't be used.

Mine was battery portable, the Nickel something battery having short life span during treatment. I dont think it heated. I think my mix was albuterol steroid and a surfactant to loosen the phlegm. Couldn't use in driver seat, had to be passenger or banged head against wheel if cough fit ensued. No way I would try if was driving. Coughing fits were violent though never saw dark blotches. Would still cause to drive of the road and down a mountain.

I didn't need mine often, but driving from Green River WY to Vernal UT involved going through Flaming Gorge Recreation Area, 2300ft change in elevation. Before hitting switch backs, sometimes needed to stop in a pull out for breathing treatment. Similar for Ouret Pass, CO.

Eventually got acclimated to WY weather and climate, and surfactants did their job, no need for nebulizer anymore. Being from Texas Gulf Coast, heavy smoker, working in oil field coupled with super dry air. Yeah, deck was stacked against me but I played the game regardless. Switching from cigarettes to vape on dr advice probably biggest factor.

Search Amazon for battery portable nebulizer. Mine was mouthpiece only, in oral and out nasal, very boxy. Measured about half length of carton of smokes. Was tempted several times to color case brown and put a Pall Mall filterless logo on it.

~SD


Re: CAN LIN & DNA

wn4isx
 

Oh, for the record, I've never claimed to be responsible, only mostly accurate.
?