What Data Does My Car Collect About Me and Where Does It Go?
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What you do in your car is more than enough information to paint a detailed picture of you. But your car-maker wants more. They can collect information about how much money you make, your immigration status, race, genetic information, and sexual activity (it¡¯s?!). Heck, they¡¯ll even help themselves to your?, your?, and your??if you¡¯ll let them.
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- Racial or ethnic origin, religious or philosophical beliefs or union membership;
Note IDing racial or etnic origin requires collecting and anayling DNA. I suspect this line is to cover any data collection they do, I don't think there is any affordable remote DNA readers....might be wrong.
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OK enough verification??
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My wife knits and crotchets. When I saw my first core plane memory I wondered at the manual dexterity required to wire the feritte donuts. Each donut was a bit. 7 or 8 per byte, 1020 or so bytes per pane page.
And the work had to be zero errors.
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It makes my brain ache.
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For those young enough to not know what the devil we are talking about...
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There are so many things about old tech I don't miss I can't list them all.
I always thought vibrator power supplies for car radio receivers were beyond stupid.
I mean, don't you want an arcing noise source inside your receiver...to jam weak signals?
And yes I know better designs didn't have arcs and 1955 tube radios are amazinginly sensitive.
But all vibrators arc at 'end of life" which might mean they only have 1000 hours of life left.
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Or dynamotors for HV.....brushes almost always arc.?
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I can just see some AI choking at the word vibrator.
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OK kidies consider a 'relay' where you wire the normally closed contacts in series with the coil.
Apply power and the relay turns on and off very rapidly.?
Use another set of contacts to provide power to a step up transformer..
Instant high voltage
Then use another set of contacts that move in synch with the switching contacts and you have synchronouse rectification, no diodes required, no diode loss (and vacuum tube diodes are the definition of loss)
Said 'relays' were most often mounted in a foam lined metal 'can' with a tube like plug so it could be replaced.
That is a vibrator from 1950.
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BTW this is still a valid way to produce HV quick and dirty, very dirty. My first home made Geiger Counter used a relay driver until I got the transistor multivibrator to work.
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I don't know why spell check has stopped on Groups IO. Now you see the raw writtings of a dyslexic.
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Re: You are right though, people should be concerned. Very concerned. And proactive.
Some of us are. Which places you on a list of possible [known] subversives.
Since we are to avoid politics I'll not make my normal 10 page rant against the intelligence state.
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Re: "that flagged nebulizer use as smoking"
I'm sure I will regret this.
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Normally an inhaler is all I need for my moderate asthma, however, on occasion I get a cold that turns into bronchitis and borderline walking pneumonia. Since my wife can only drive in emergencies due to her damaged right knee (which will be replaced with titanium whole knee replacement at the end of January), there have been times when I have to drive with severe bronchitis/walking pneumonia. In those situations an inhaler isn't enough and I might have to use a nebulizer . My nebulizer operated from 12V so operation in a car is no big deal. And yes I've been pulled over twice by police thinking I was using something weird.
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The medicine expands my airways. I have to pull over after 5 to 10 minutes of treatment to hack up a lung or two. I get unbelievable amount of thick mucus out with coughing that sounds like I'm on the terminal cancer ward.
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Have you ever coughed so hard and so long you have large black blotches in your vision?
If not, good, consider yourself blessed.
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Using a nebulizer isn't something you want to do in a resteraunt. It would gross out any sane person.
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This year the doctor gave me an experimental test inhaler loaded with an antibiotic. At the first sign of bronchitis I use the inhaler for 5 days twice a day. No hacking no the bronchitis fades away and this is much better then the nebulizer.
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People with wide variety of conditions might have to use a nebulizer
COPD
Emphysema
Asthma
Lung infection
Lung cancer
Oh Black lung [inhaling coal dust for 20 years as a miner does a number on the lungs]
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There are probably other conditions but I am not a doctor or nurse so my medical knowledge is generally limited to medical conditions family or friends have.
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Oh, when I have to use the nebulizer I have to use an oxygen concentrator between treatments. I wouldn't wish asthma or walking pneumonia on my worst enemies. So you get weird looks with a rebreather mask on, I find the tubes up the nose to be extremely unpleasant, it feels like bugs crawling up my nose.
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You asked.
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When I was a student apprentice at EELM Computers, Kidsgrove, in the early 1960s they had dozens of ladies assembling magnetic core memories. Very fiddly work!
Leon Heller
G1HSM
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You are right though, people should be concerned. Very concerned. And proactive.
Surprised all the CAN complainants here are not Card Carrying EFF Members!
The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is an international non-profit group based in . It was founded in 1990 to promote .
It provides funds for legal defense in court, presents briefs, defends individuals and new from what it considers abusive legal threats, works to expose malfeasance, provides guidance to the government and , organizes political action and mass mailings, supports some new technologies which it believes preserve and online civil liberties, maintains a and web sites of related news and information, monitors and challenges potential that it believes would infringe on and , and solicits a list of what it considers are with intentions to defeat those that it considers are without .
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"that flagged nebulizer use as smoking"
My wife's an RN. I had to ask her "Whats a nebulizer," and, follow up, "Is that something people carry with them to use in a car?"
I had imagined the 'inhalers' asthmatics employ to help them breathe.
She recalled that a Nebulizer was a machine unlikely to be employed while driving about in a rental car.? So I went online and found the instructions for use:
How to Use a Nebulizer:?- Prepare the medication: Follow the instructions provided by your healthcare provider to mix the medication with saline solution.
- Assemble the nebulizer: Connect the medication cup, tubing, and mouthpiece or mask to the nebulizer unit.
- Plug in the power source: If the nebulizer is electric, connect it to a power outlet.
- Start the nebulizer: Turn on the device to create a mist.
- Inhale the mist: Sit comfortably and breathe deeply through the mouthpiece or mask.
- Continue until all medication is gone: The treatment typically takes 5-15 minutes.
- Clean and store: Disassemble the nebulizer, clean it thoroughly, and store it according to the manufacturer's instructions.
Are you sure you weren't using s Hookah?
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"Their cars monitor and record conversations, video, one company even claims the right to collect DNA."
As responsible adults, given the current lack of 'Truthiness,' I think it is incumbent upon the author to include a link to the "reliable source(s)" for his assertion - esp the bit about DNA.
As to the hacking comment "I wonder how long before someone hacks into a car and shuts it down . . . " I do believe that has been demonstrated some years ago - but a link wouldn't be out of the question.
In the alternative, revise the claims by adding a couple of words - maybe a preface of "I believe" to the "
one company even claims the right to collect DNA."
As in "I don't believe immigrants in Ohio were "eating the cats, eating the dogs, eating the pets of the people that lived there."
Further, it would be great if an Electronics Focused Group was able to divine and publish hacks that would allow owners to disable this feature or that much as 'the community' has discovered ways to disable (reprogram) this annoying key or that on my Windows Laptop.
One of our vehicles had the ability to send location data to the dealer/company application whenever I pressed the "PANIC" button. Something I did a few times when I forgot what the aisle I'd left the thing in looked like from the perspective of the store I'd, just moments ago, gone into.? Sometimes, after I park, the cars around mine move about while I'm in the store - maddening!? There oughta be a law!
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Your experiences sound a lot like mine. I too have a core memory sample but without I-O electronics. For a job, I bought two early 8¡± floppy drives @ $800 each in 1977.? That is $4,000 each in today¡¯s money! The drives were bare.? I did my own floppy disc controller and operating system. The customer also requested a tape backup option too.? It was noisy punching the tape. Later I did a CRT display with my own driver and character generator. I have a hard drive monster; the platter is about 10 inches in diameter and 3/8¡± thick.? Yes, almost 10mm! It is amazing to think about the changes in 50 years! Bertho ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of wn4isx via groups.io
Sent: 17 December, 2024 7:16
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electronics101] altermagnetism? I just threw away a 1k (1024) magnetic core plane driven by TTL. It dated from 1968. The college of engineering was tossing it in 1976 and I thought it might be useful. Wired it to a KIM-2.? It worked by what a headache The Chyron (TV charater generator) at the university medica center had 5 core planes, stacked, they were 2 feet by 2 feet and 3k each for a total of 9k. The 8" floppy drive was so stupid if the system issued a command change from track 20 to track 21 it backed the haed all the way back to track zero then stepped forward 21 tracks. sounded like a supressed maching gun. We replaced it with a dumb PC [original 5 slot IBM PC] with a 5meg hard file and the production people were so happy they wanted to have it's babies. Somewhere i have several 4" squares I cut from one of the magnetic planes. Core plane worked amazing well given how primative it was. I hope it's not coming back. We had a demonstration of TI's magenetic bubble memory....that crashed everytime the engineer tried ti rurn the program. Magnets belong in compasses and children's toys,not computer memory!
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The 280Z was infamous in EMI/Ham circles for the total lack of shielding and bypassing on the CPU.
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A fellow engineer had one and thunder storms were enough to cause it to run rough.
Every lightning strike within 100 miles caused a miss.
We wrapped the CPU in tinfoil (honest to God tinfoil with small holes punched in for ventalation) soldered a ground wire to it and applied 1000pf feed through capacitors on an 1" X 1" by 1 foot alunimum L strip for all the power, data and fuel injection lines.
The CPU only monitoried engine speed, incoming air temp, and crank position.?
It didn't monitor throttle so I was never sure how it accelerated.?
It was one of the few production cars that could beat a Honda CB-350 or 450 off the line for 50 to 100 feet.
Many cars would catch up with a Honda CB-x but damn few could beat you for that first 50 feet.
The 289Z had an obscene acceleration to mass ratio, was made from thin metal and didn't do well in even slow speed crashes.?The fellow engineer lost control on a rain wet road at 30ish MPH, the car looked like it'd been through a crusher.
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Datson reduced weight everywhere they could including the frame,
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Back then I ran 200w on ham HF and could shut down many cars at stop lights by keying down.
Audis were the worst. My 2W 2m (144MHz) walkie talkie would shut them down 100 feet away.
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I just threw away a 1k (1024) magnetic core plane driven by TTL. It dated from 1968. The college of engineering was tossing it in 1976 and I thought it might be useful. Wired it to a KIM-2.? It worked by what a headache
The Chyron (TV charater generator) at the university medica center had 5 core planes, stacked, they were 2 feet by 2 feet and 3k each for a total of 9k.
The 8" floppy drive was so stupid if the system issued a command change from track 20 to track 21 it backed the haed all the way back to track zero then stepped forward 21 tracks. sounded like a supressed maching gun. We replaced it with a dumb PC [original 5 slot IBM PC] with a 5meg hard file and the production people were so happy they wanted to have it's babies.
Somewhere i have several 4" squares I cut from one of the magnetic planes.
Core plane worked amazing well given how primative it was.
I hope it's not coming back.
We had a demonstration of TI's magenetic bubble memory....that crashed everytime the engineer tried ti rurn the program.
Magnets belong in compasses and children's toys,not computer memory!
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Oh, wow! My Z was an '82 Datsun (also badged "by Nissan" ) 280Zx Coupe.
Couldn't get too close to AM transmitter or a hillbilly running "BigFoot" with a linear.
Engine would miss, and eventually shutdown.
~SD
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Oh, no!
Core memory is coming back!
~SD
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Driver monitoring.
Yeah, I had a nice run-in with a rental company monitoring system that flagged nebulizer use as smoking. They couldn't backtrack fast enough when Lawyer inquired about number of people my medical condition was exposed to.
You are right though, people should be concerned. Very concerned. And proactive.
My Yukon is not as dumb without Onstar (3G sunset) as they would have me believe. Odd that I can't make calls, but get the system unavailable message, after ringing, due to insufficient credits. Tested a theory by trying to buy the service, and nice representative came online informing me my system is obsolete and cannot be used. Except that it can be, and was with conversation being proof. Onstar has been removed by the roots (in dash, behind climate controls).
Stealership told me that in order to add key fobs to the Yukon, Onstar has to be put back. Uh, huh. Dorman Blackbox worked just fine. Uh, huh. Onstar is 'shutdown', could still make calls, and has to be needlessly restored? I don't think so.
~SD
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One problem with new 'driver alertness monitoring" systems is some of them don't like certain sunglasses.
The system "thinks" you aren't paying attention to the road and will issue a series of warnings, the last being "pull over and park the engine will turn off in 5 minutes."
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A cousin is a lawyer (yea the shame) and has blue eyes and sneezes in bright sunlight and has prescription sunglasses. Really dark sunglasses. The system can't see her eyes, decides she isn't paying attention and goes into 'I'm gonna stop" routine. She and the dealership went around and around until she brought up the Americans With Disabilities Act. The dealer offered a full refund, she refused and demanded the driver alert system be either modified or disabled. The company sent an engineer and reprogrammed the master CPU and ancillary units and turned off the driver alert system.
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The company is terrified of a class action law suit which I hope there is one and they have their heads handed to them.
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If people really understood all the data modern? cars and trucks collect on them there'd be? a revolution.
Their cars monitor and record conversations, video, one company even claims the right to collect DNA
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I wonder how long before someone hacks into a car and shuts it down with bad results for the driver.
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This is kinda interesting:
Might kick tech up a notch or two...
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Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
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Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
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You have to register for this particular site, pretty sure it contains all you ever wanted to know about modifying a MB van, and other vehicles.
My experience with the upfitter portion of CAN on a Sprinter was troubleshooting a MobileEYE driver awareness system. Able to detect cars, people, debris far further than driver would be aware. Then let driver know it sees something, heightening awareness. Didn't have ability to apply brakes, but it would vary its 'see' range based on speed input from CANBus.
On a 2018 Sprinter, converted to a Class C RV, there were 2 CAN access points. 1 located under floor covering at bottom edge of 'dog house'. This one was raw CAN. Other was a buffered CAN located under driver seat, also had fuses and relay provisions.
The MobileEYE installer connected direct to vehicle CAN, and when MobileEYE crashed, it affected vehicle in negative way when bus was seized. The buffered CAN had logic to analyze data flow and content so a constant repetitive stream over x period of time (variable) would trigger isolation. It also prevented attached devices and associated wiring from taking down CANbus.
It's interesting just how long CAN has been in lights. When needed replacement tail lights for a 2011 Dodge Sprinter, I was asked if I needed CAN lights. I didn't know. Was told to look at connector. If memory serves, each bulb had 2 wires, CAN would have been 3 for CANL bus.
I like the Sprinter line, especially the 3500s featuring tucked in duals. But, Dodge only works on Dodge, Mercedes only works on Mercedes. Freightliner refuses to work on anything with less than 10 wheels, just too busy backlogged.
Tech2 is a vehicle programmer used by GM starting with GMT600 series of vehicles. I THINK it started use in mid/late90s. My 2012 Yukon is a GMT900 chassis, built in July 2011, just a couple months after Tech2 would be effective. The Tech2, had I been able to use it, would allow me to swap and reprogram various ECMs found all over the truck.
As it is, I have a module for dash, steering wheel, radio, front climate controls, rear climate controls, trailer, transmission, engine fuel management, engine electrical (incl CS44 269A smart alternator with current sensor), seat restraints front, seat restraints rear, windows / doors, rear lift gate, lighting, onstarm satellite radio / CD changer. Those are just what I remember. Tech2 will talk to them, but cannot replace them now. To do that, I have to use a CANdi adapter, install software on a laptop, and pay a lot. Nope. Next vehicle will be a FORD. FORScan (forscan.org) and an OBD MAX MX+ bluetoith adapter and I can even replace keys without having originals, or make vehicle think it's a toaster.
The whole idea behind IoT is wireless / seamless communication. I can understand why would all be wifi, despite needing a power cord. There are projects for Arduino and Pi that offer similar functionality but over hardline. (Serial or ethernet).
~SD
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Re: Safety when trying to couple a scope to the AC mains
On Mon, Dec 16, 2024 at 03:44 PM, jong kung wrote:
Also, I want to work on my cars. ?Modern cars are full of fast moving signals. ?Lugging out my bench top scope for car repairs¡ that¡¯s a lot of work. ?
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Check out the CAN/LIN thread and look at CAN readers on Amazon.
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Re: Safety when trying to couple a scope to the AC mains
Hi,
I usually stay to low voltage circuits. ?I try to stay away from anything that can kill me (or give me a shock and ruin my day). ? Even so, from time to time I want to scope out a 120v circuit. ? It¡¯s not just scoping 120v mains power waveform.
For example, I once bought an ¡°ultrasonic rodent repellent¡± (lets not get into if this is effective or not. ? That¡¯s not the point). ?I wanted to probe the circuit to learn. ? This was my early days with an oscilloscope (and I¡¯m completely self
taught). ?So¡ of course I attached the ground of the probe to what looked like the ground of the circuit and¡.?
¡. KABOOM !!! ?THERE WAS A LOUD KABOOM !!!
Besides the safety factor (to my wellbeing), there¡¯s the question of shorted ground when using wall powered oscilloscopes.
?= ?= ?= ?= ?= ?= ?= ?=?
This (and this type of circuits) was one of my reasoning for getting a portable (DMM style) oscilloscope. ? For little bit more than cost of differential probes, I can get a whole battery operated oscilloscope. ?No more worries about shorted
ground.
Also, I want to work on my cars. ?Modern cars are full of fast moving signals. ?Lugging out my bench top scope for car repairs¡ that¡¯s a lot of work. ?
?= ?= ?= ?= ?= ?= ?=?
>> My 9K:1K attenuator is probably the safest¡.
As somebody else pointed out, this doesn¡¯t mitigate the possibility of connecting the ground of the probe to the wrong polarity of mains circuit.
Jong?
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On Dec 11, 2024, at 9:39 AM, wn4isx via groups.io <wn4isx@...> wrote:
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You clearly know what you are doing and have an extremely good reason for monitoring the AC Mains.
You need to see near instantaneous changes in the input and output. Very few people have that need.
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My comments were intended for 'normal' people with 'normal' needs not some kid with unclear needs.
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The only time I ever needed to monitor the AC Mains was to check the turn of noise burst of a TRIAC based main studio lighting grid. One dimmer produced obscene amounts of jittery noise that drove the TV camera control units nuts.
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I insisted on a 5 foot square of 3/8" Lexan, two isolation transformers for the scope and the fire department EMTs across the road to be present.
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120V on a 100A circuit still frightens me.?
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I ended up with the Lexan sheet and attenuator when they shut down our department.
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My 9K:1K attenuator is probably the safest, or least dangerous non transformer method to measure the AC mains.
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And the university bought the Lexan and resistors!
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I remember the first CPU equipped car I saw. A 1980ish Datson. The CPU module used a Z80 and all the chips were milspec ceramic. I giggled and wished the owner "Good luck, it won't last till Christmas."
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The car died a decade plus later parked when a dump truck backed over it.
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My wife's former ZX2 has 179K miles on it, engine and tranny ran fine, the rear end was eaten by rust.
I can't imagine a high end American car from 1960 making it that far.?
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Perhaps Volvo adopted CAN before the tech was ready, but our car was so messed up the dealer's diagnostics said there were no hardware failures but the car was unfixable. If kept flashing odd error codes only to change them every few seconds, They'd never seen anything like it.
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It is possible the defective CD changer was jamming the CAN Buss. The dealer didn't charge for the first diagnostics but it'd have been $100 for the second.
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I wonder how "Right to repair" and CAN/LIN/GMLAN are going to work out.
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Leon
Gooey
Bertho