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Re: RF Antenna question

Shawn W. McClintock
 

开云体育

Only too glad to help. Yes, the PCB trace antenna is directional.. however, for short distances of say under 300 ft. this is not very apparent. so if the cat is in the house, you shouldnt have too many problems. if the transmiter output is 50 ohm, you can use a simple loop antenna that would fit inside the cat's collar. all this would require is a 4:1 matching transformer because a loop antenna is 300 ohm, the matching transformer?is very easy to build or, if you want, buy at many electronics stores. These are commonly known as CATV adaptors, for older sets that have screw terminals for the flat twin lead type antenna cable to be able to use the new coax based devices. Many TV shops have them and may give you one for the asking, they can also be found at?Wal-Mart, ect..?
?
Shawn
?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mounir Shita [mailto:mshita@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 3:07 PM
To: 'Electronics_101@...'
Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] RF Antenna question

Actually, a PCB trace antenna sounds like a perfect fit for my project. However, the circuit will be going on my cat. On the datasheet it says that this type on an antenna is very directional. How true is that? And is there a way around that problem.
?
Hope the questions aren't to stupid. I'm very illiterate when it comes to RF.
?
Mounir
?


Re: RF Antenna question

Mounir Shita
 

开云体育

Actually, a PCB trace antenna sounds like a perfect fit for my project. However, the circuit will be going on my cat. On the datasheet it says that this type on an antenna is very directional. How true is that? And is there a way around that problem.
?
Hope the questions aren't to stupid. I'm very illiterate when it comes to RF.
?
Mounir

-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn W. McClintock [mailto:kd6oji@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:32 PM
To: Electronics_101@...
Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] RF Antenna question

Not at all. Although the application this device was designed for?utilize a PCB trace type antenna, it by no means limits you to such an item. There are of course, several things you must remember with any antenna, PCB, wire or otherwise.
1) Ensure proper impedance from antenna to transmitter circuit. If need be, it may be necessary to include some type?of? impedance matching circuit.
2) Maintain proper impedance through out your transmission line.
3) The actual antenna be a function of wavelength for the frequency you are operating at.
?
You can find out more about antenna design and building by exploring amateur radio sites on the web. a search on most search engines for antenna design should get you started.
?
Shawn
?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mounir Shita [mailto:mshita@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:46 AM
To: 'Electronics_101@...'
Subject: [Electronics_101] RF Antenna question

Anyone know about the MICRF102 Micrel part? It's a 300-470MHz transmitter chip. I don't know anything about RF transmission and I'm just reading the ad on the current issue of EDN magazine. It says here:
?
"The MICRF102 QwikRadio transmitter is an easy to use, easy to manufacture transmitter designed for use with a low cost PCB trace antenna"
?
This doesn't mean a I can only use a loop back trace on the circuit board to make the antenna for the chip?
?
Mounir
?


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Re: Audio Line Level Potentiometer

Jim Purcell
 

Chris,

My church wants to run a line level, balanced output from the back of the church to the front of the church (65')? Then, after running through a wall-mounted pot, on to an amp and then to monitor speakers.? The pot is so that the choir director will have volume control over the signal.
?How do I spec the voltage/amperage on the pot?

A gain control at speaker level would be better. I haven't done PA work in a very long time but I can't recall seeing line impedance gain controls as commonly available. You might check with a local sound company to see if they are available.

Jim


Re: The need to know!

Jim Purcell
 

Rama,
?? It is tough responding to this mail since you seem to have misunderstood nearly everything I wrote.
I have a way of doing that. Partly because I am a literalist. I take what someone says/writes at face value unless 'he couldn't mean that'.

Jim


Re: Demonizing Hackers

Jim Purcell
 

Curtis,

It is really great to be part of this group. I've
long accepted the fact that I do not express myself in
words very well....however....from what you have
written, you and I seem to be (at least sorta) on the
same page.
You mean I don't express myself well? :-) Or you we
agree on the issue under siscussion?

Jim


Re: PIC resources

 


Must agree, 18 is way better than 17. Hopefully soon they'll get all
their parts out in flash versions. Have you thought about using the
dsPIC, when it comes out, to something ? I'm very excited about that
part. Price wise, its very close to the PIC18-family. However, its 16
bit and much faster.



From what I have read about the dsPIC it sounds impressive. However at present time I think I will have little use for it at work. ?But I might play around with it at home some when it come out, just for fun.


Re: RF Antenna question

Shawn W. McClintock
 

开云体育

Not at all. Although the application this device was designed for?utilize a PCB trace type antenna, it by no means limits you to such an item. There are of course, several things you must remember with any antenna, PCB, wire or otherwise.
1) Ensure proper impedance from antenna to transmitter circuit. If need be, it may be necessary to include some type?of? impedance matching circuit.
2) Maintain proper impedance through out your transmission line.
3) The actual antenna be a function of wavelength for the frequency you are operating at.
?
You can find out more about antenna design and building by exploring amateur radio sites on the web. a search on most search engines for antenna design should get you started.
?
Shawn
?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mounir Shita [mailto:mshita@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:46 AM
To: 'Electronics_101@...'
Subject: [Electronics_101] RF Antenna question

Anyone know about the MICRF102 Micrel part? It's a 300-470MHz transmitter chip. I don't know anything about RF transmission and I'm just reading the ad on the current issue of EDN magazine. It says here:
?
"The MICRF102 QwikRadio transmitter is an easy to use, easy to manufacture transmitter designed for use with a low cost PCB trace antenna"
?
This doesn't mean a I can only use a loop back trace on the circuit board to make the antenna for the chip?
?
Mounir
?


Audio Line Level Potentiometer

Christopher Fetters
 

开云体育

I normally don't do a lot of electronics work but I do a lot of audio work.? I can run a soldering gun... that's about the extent of my expertise.
?
My church wants to run a line level, balanced output from the back of the church to the front of the church (65')? Then, after running through a wall-mounted pot, on to an amp and then to monitor speakers.? The pot is so that the choir director will have volume control over the signal.
?
How do I spec the voltage/amperage on the pot? And how would I wire the pot inline with a balanced signal?? Do you have any suggestions on companies who might specialize in audio electronics parts?
?
The board is a professional board operating at +4 dBU (not -10 dBU)
?
Thanks in advance for the help!!!!
?
Chris

--------------------------------
Christopher Fetters
President & Founder
Nextivity
(717) 843-4804
(413) 793-1426 Fax
cfetters@...

-----Original Message-----
From: G Ramasubramani [mailto:grama@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:34 PM
To: Electronics_101@...
Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] The need to know!

Jim,
?
?? It is tough responding to this mail since you seem to have misunderstood nearly everything I wrote.
?
Rama
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] The need to know!

Rama,
Call me Rama.

Call me anything but late for dinner.
?
?As you mention, yes - I am referring to space between the plates and dielectric. I thought that was pretty obvious.

YOu seemed to be making a distinction between plate distance and dielectric thickness when you
said they cold differ. If they differ then you must have air as an additional dielectric.
?

Are you talking leakage due to exceeding dielecric strength?

Yeah. Maybe discharge is not the correct term, but what the heck - I am not writing a book :-)

??????????????????? I'm sure that the cap will discharge but worse, it might be
??????????????????? Permanently damaged in any but air capacitors. Air is generally
??????????????????? a self healing dielectric.
If the plates were farther apart than the dielectric thickness you'd have a mixture of dielectrics, the normal dielectric plus some air (or vacuum.) I am not sure of more important or less important - both play a role.
????????????????? Easy to get that from the formula for capacitance as a function of
????????????????? physical design parameters.? In this formula the plate distance is the
????????????????? only term on the bottom and dielectric constant is on top with
????????????????? a constant and plate area. So distance has greater effect on
????????????????? capacitance. And dielectric thickness is generally assumed to be
????????????????? the same as plate distance.
?

Jim
?
?

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Re: PIC resources

 

How do you compare the PIC17 family to the PIC18 family? I only used PIC17 once before PIC18 was introduced. But on my current project I was comparing PIC17 and PIC18. I honestly couldn't find any reason why Microchip still made the PIC17 series. PIC18 is way better and about the same price.

Am I missing something ? Do you have good experience with PIC17?


When we started this project I had intended to use separate PWM outputs to each of the three phases of the motor, therefore I needed three PWM outputs. The PIC17C756A was the best choice available with 3 PWM outputs. ?Later, changes were made to the motor and controller and I no longer needed separate PWM outputs. ?If I had known this earlier I would have used a PIC18 series chip. ?

The PIC17 series was the next logical step for Microchip to take at the time they developed it. I believe it was just a step along the way to the PIC18. Microchip still supports this family, even though the PIC18 is a much better choice if you need more power than the PIC16 which is much cheaper, because of their policy of whenever possible always supporting past lines. They do this to prove to their potential customers that they will not be hung out to dry because of discontinued or obsoleted parts.


Re: PIC resources

 

In a message dated 10/29/01 1:47:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, mshita@... writes:


I have some years experience with PIC.Actually 5-6 years to be exact. I've built quite a few projects. My biggest was my senior project at college 3-4 years ago when I built a speech recognition system with a PIC16 and a PIC17. Worked okay, only got 70% recognition rate. Also built tons of small projects. Right now I'm playing with a robot I'm gonna squeeze a PIC18F to do some simple navigation.


I did not know that Microchip had released any of the PIC18F series yet. ?All I have seen are listed as Future Products.


Re: The need to know!

G Ramasubramani
 

开云体育

Jim,
?
?? It is tough responding to this mail since you seem to have misunderstood nearly everything I wrote.
?
Rama

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] The need to know!

Rama,
Call me Rama.

Call me anything but late for dinner.
?
?As you mention, yes - I am referring to space between the plates and dielectric. I thought that was pretty obvious.

YOu seemed to be making a distinction between plate distance and dielectric thickness when you
said they cold differ. If they differ then you must have air as an additional dielectric.
?

Are you talking leakage due to exceeding dielecric strength?

Yeah. Maybe discharge is not the correct term, but what the heck - I am not writing a book :-)

??????????????????? I'm sure that the cap will discharge but worse, it might be
??????????????????? Permanently damaged in any but air capacitors. Air is generally
??????????????????? a self healing dielectric.
If the plates were farther apart than the dielectric thickness you'd have a mixture of dielectrics, the normal dielectric plus some air (or vacuum.) I am not sure of more important or less important - both play a role.
????????????????? Easy to get that from the formula for capacitance as a function of
????????????????? physical design parameters.? In this formula the plate distance is the
????????????????? only term on the bottom and dielectric constant is on top with
????????????????? a constant and plate area. So distance has greater effect on
????????????????? capacitance. And dielectric thickness is generally assumed to be
????????????????? the same as plate distance.
?

Jim
?
?

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Electronics_101-unsubscribe@...



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Re: Demonizing Hackers

Curtis Sakima
 

Jim,

It is really great to be part of this group. I've
long accepted the fact that I do not express myself in
words very well....however....from what you have
written, you and I seem to be (at least sorta) on the
same page.

Thanks for responding!!

Curtis


--- Jim Purcell <jpurcell@...> wrote:
Curtis,

I only would like to add that "a lot of times"
after
"all hackers get downgraded into criminals"
If we look at specific acts and punish those I think
we will be better off. Labels are simplistic and
often
a convenience that bypasses thinking. They are
sometimes a necessary short hand, but we should
pay attention to what the label means and not
equate reality with the label instead of what it
represents.

As long as people think in terms of the labels
instead
of the acts that will continue. We should think,
people who crack computers should be punished.
Not hackers should be punished. It the long run
it will be the acts that bring about court cases.
To object to misuse of terms like hacker is
probably foolish, I have tilted at windmills
before. I am a language freak and it bothers
me to see that many people have little grasp
or effective use of same.

Jim



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Re: PIC resources

 

I have been involved with PIC programming for several years. ?I have wrote code for several projects at work mostly dealing with motor and actuator controls, as well as, some test equipment. ?

My latest project is for a motor controller for NASA. The heart of the controller is a PIC17C756A. My controller drives a brushless DC motor and controls it's speed. ?My controller also monitors the motors speed, current, and temperature. This data is sent to a PC via a RS-232 interface. Commands for speed, as well as, current and temperature limits, can be sent to the controller from a PC via the RS-232 interface as well. Also these limits are stored on an EEPROM, which requires separate serial communications. The baud rates for the RS-232 communications are variable, based on separate signals sent to the controller. There is also a separate enable/disable for the motor. ?Current and temperature is monitored using the PICs A/D convertor.

I have a web page, below is a link to my home page, from there you can get the link to my PIC programming page.


Re: Demonizing Hackers

Jim Purcell
 

Curtis,

I only would like to add that "a lot of times" after
"all hackers get downgraded into criminals"
If we look at specific acts and punish those I think
we will be better off. Labels are simplistic and often
a convenience that bypasses thinking. They are
sometimes a necessary short hand, but we should
pay attention to what the label means and not
equate reality with the label instead of what it
represents.

Laws which ... were ... intended
..,for bad-hacking /cracking act. But
in the end, serve only to stifle creativity and make
it hard for everyone else.
As long as people think in terms of the labels instead
of the acts that will continue. We should think,
people who crack computers should be punished.
Not hackers should be punished. It the long run
it will be the acts that bring about court cases.
To object to misuse of terms like hacker is
probably foolish, I have tilted at windmills
before. I am a language freak and it bothers
me to see that many people have little grasp
or effective use of same.

Jim


Re: Demonizing Hackers

Curtis Sakima
 

Couldn't said it better myself.

I only would like to add that "a lot of times" after
"all hackers get downgraded into criminals" (as
Charles so beautifully puts it)....

LAWS GET LEGISLATED

Laws which (I know ) were probably originally intended
only for the original bad-hacking /cracking act. But
in the end, serve only to stifle creativity and make
it hard for everyone else.

Curtis


--- Charles <hazenoff@...> wrote:

I don't know how the group got diverted on to the
topic of hacking, other than my invitation to come and
check out my yahoo group, hackerz_n_hickory... but
anyways, to address your fears...

Hackers, for the most part are really good at one
thing

--------edited simply to reduce length----------

... so don't demonize them..Just sorta like saying
all Christians are like Pat Robertson, or that all
Muslims are like Osama Bin Laden..Generalizations
suck...

So, thank goodness for them <the hackers> ... and if
someone does something illegal, treat them like the
crooks they are, I'm down with that..

what I'm not ok with, is everyone who likes
electronics/ computers/ etc, downgrading all hackers
into the realm of criminals...


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Re: capacitors and dielectrics

Jim Purcell
 

Doug,

The main reason I am on this list is because electronics hobbiests
are an endangered spiecies.
Do you think so? I hope not. I used to think that radio Hams were too, but
I think that while their ranks may be reduce (maybe they aren't actually)
the ones who remain are just as dedicated. Maybe Electronics Hobbyists
are like that too.

Jim


Re: Capacitor - Charge- Energy

Jim Purcell
 

werrr,

i think because of the deformation of the
dielectric molecular configuration capacitor stores
charge.
even if there is no dielectric there is air as
dielectric.
That idea works until you experience vacuum
capacitors, no dielectric. So the storage medium
seems to be the e.s. field itself. I think I missed
that early on because a field is such a tenuous
thing, at least in my mind it is.

i think if there is vaccum between the
plates capacitor can't store energy.
If that's so then the Collins radio transmitter spent
big bucks on a device that does nothing. I was a
broadcast tech for almost twenty years. Some
transmitters had vacuum capacitors to avoid the
problem of moist air causing arcing.

I am moving to the conclusion that the charge
is stored in this field, nothing new here and
that the plates and dielectric support that
field. If the capacitor is altered in any way
it seems to me that the field will either
collapse or change. But if it changes I
don't buy the idea that the voltage could
rise. That's just my intuition working. No
support evidence.

Now I'm going to wimp out on this discussion.
I am losing interest, mostly because I haven't
seen any new ideas proffered. I will continue
to read but probably won't reply to the topic
any longer. In my dotage I have a little less
tolerance for perpetual rediscussion of some
issues. I start of with a bang and eventually
become disenchanted.

Jim


RF Antenna question

Mounir Shita
 

开云体育

Anyone know about the MICRF102 Micrel part? It's a 300-470MHz transmitter chip. I don't know anything about RF transmission and I'm just reading the ad on the current issue of EDN magazine. It says here:
?
"The MICRF102 QwikRadio transmitter is an easy to use, easy to manufacture transmitter designed for use with a low cost PCB trace antenna"
?
This doesn't mean a I can only use a loop back trace on the circuit board to make the antenna for the chip?
?
Mounir
?


Re: Cable TV signal amplification

Jim Purcell
 

Imran,

when i split the cable in two by A/B connector , one for my tv & other for
PC tv tuner card , i started to get noise.
Is there any simple way to amplify these signals.
Maybe, but we can't help without more information. Which signal are
we talking about, the video, audio, RF.

I'm assuming RF from the context. There are antenna splitters, that
couple one antenna signal to two inputs. They can usually be had
from any store that carries a variety of TV accessories. If the antenna
consists of 'rabbit ears' however, the result will be less than ideal
even with an amplifier. RF amplifiers are available in well stocked
electronics stores.

Jim


Re: Capacitor - Charge- Energy

 

i think if there is vaccum between the
plates capacitor can't store energy.
I don't think so. As long as their is an electric field between the
plates, there is stored energy. With a dielectric between the
plates, you can support a larger field, hence store more energy.

Paul