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Re: ... to see if glass diodes emit any detectable light . . .

 

Not that it matters - and it's waaay off-topic - but in the few places I lived while growing up, we had Fort Knox nearby, and in another we had underground missile silos just up the street from the Boy Scouts meeting house.? So I guess either might have been considered targets by the Russkies.? Yet we had no "Duck and Cover".? Ever.
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But we did know where to go in a tornado alert.? We had one when I was about 5.
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I think the world knew that ordinary consumer companies were making things for defense and space, too, sometimes in private.? That was pretty common.
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Those lists of 300 likely U.S. targets, were probably prepared by Americans.
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I wonder how those "Duck and Cover" things were promoted.? I guess places like the DoD and DOE probably distributed filmstrips and pamphlets to cities and towns, and then it was up to them what they did with them, and for how long they kept up the routine.? Some probably followed them by the letter, year after year, while others may have taken liberties - not precisely ignored it, but decided that the feds went overboard and this wasn't going to help anyone survive a real attack.? I may have lived in places like the latter, because we never had "Duck and Cover".? But the Air Raid siren test was every Saturday at noon.? (Hence the parody, "We attack Americans at noon.? They think it's lunch.")
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After the Cuban Missile Crisis was behind us, it seemed like things cooled down just a bit.? It's silly to think that now, knowing how much nuclear hardware there was (and now is, again).? But the nuclear weapons were only a deterrent, right?? Not something any sane leader would ever use.? (Keyword: sane.)
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Andy
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Re: transistor help needed

 

Hi Paul, these are what I like to use.?




Re: transistor help needed

 

Need to work backwards in any design to the input requirements. How much voltage is the output being driven? What is the start-up current of the motor being driven? Now you can select the MOSFET size. You do not necessarily need a MOSFET that can drive a Tesla motor. Now, think about how much current that MOSFET needs. Do you want to put a series resistor on the gate to help control EMI concerns? If you are over-driving the output of the Arduino, think about inverting the signals and use a smaller MOSFET to drive the gate of the larger one.
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I have spent 30+ years designing stuff from small commercial electronics to motor drivers going into space; plus over a decade in the semiconductor industry as senior apps engineer and market development. If my considerations are not thought of in advance, you will learn that genies inside electronics can be released.;-)
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DerekK
DDK-ICS


Re: transistor help needed

 

As a first approximation, driving a MOSFET's gate means driving into a big capacitance.? The bigger/stronger the FET, the bigger is that capacitance.? It can be quite large, and part of it is from gate to drain where it may be multiplied by Miller effect.
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Driving capacitance gives you (as a first approximation) an RC low-pass filter, meaning that the MOSFET's gate voltage rises or falls much more slowly than the nominal rise and fall times of the driving device if it had no load.
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Hopefully you take that into account.? That is where those MOSFET gate drivers help.
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Andy
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Re: transistor help needed

 

开云体育

Indeed.

I do not know how an Arduino board is made,

but a MOSFET gate driver is something to consider.

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Something like this:

There’s plenty of options around.

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Nuno T.

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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Donald H Locker via groups.io
Sent: 24 November 2024 01:00
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electronics101] transistor help needed

?

OP should also be aware of drive limitations of the Arduino pins. Transition times (off-to-on and on-to-off) can be very high power dissipation times, even more than on times.

Donald.

Sent from Proton Mail Android



-------- Original Message --------
On 11/23/24 09:52, Nuno Yahoo wrote:

24V stepper motors driven by 25V rated MOSFET’s is a really bad idea.

That’s too close to the their limit. A single coil spike could destroy them.

From this perspective, The BUZ seems a better option.

I’m assuming those stepper motors will not consume anywhere near 11A.

As long as they have a good heat sink assembly, it’s worth a try.

If you’re going to buy them on purpose, I advise looking for something better.

If you already have them, and assuming a hand size stepper motor, 11A seems more than enough.

?

So, yes, they might work. (I assume no responsibility for any smoke clouds! :D )

?

Nuno T.

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of paul larner via groups.io
Sent: 23 November 2024 11:20
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electronics101] transistor help needed

?

well at the moment aan arduino uno is driving the aod472 fets to drive a nima 23 stepper,i have made a pcb in eagle the buz 72 would be better to mount on the pcb than the d2pak fets,i just wondered if they would work,i am using 24v for the stepper.


--

Nuno T.


--
Nuno T.


Re: ... to see if glass diodes emit any detectable light . . .

 

On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 12:18 PM, wn4isx wrote:
... Anyone else remember "duck and cover"?]
Surprisingly, no.? We missed that.? We had some of the customary drills ("fire drills" leading to the basement) but no jumping under desks or throwing our bodies against the nearest wall.? I learned about those years later, in documentaries.
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Tornadoes seemed to be a bigger threat (in KY).
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Andy
?


Tiny camera

 

A camera the size of a grain of salt:



--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin


Re: transistor help needed

 

开云体育

OP should also be aware of drive limitations of the Arduino pins. Transition times (off-to-on and on-to-off) can be very high power dissipation times, even more than on times.

Donald.

Sent from Proton Mail Android



-------- Original Message --------
On 11/23/24 09:52, Nuno Yahoo wrote:

24V stepper motors driven by 25V rated MOSFET’s is a really bad idea.

That’s too close to the their limit. A single coil spike could destroy them.

From this perspective, The BUZ seems a better option.

I’m assuming those stepper motors will not consume anywhere near 11A.

As long as they have a good heat sink assembly, it’s worth a try.

If you’re going to buy them on purpose, I advise looking for something better.

If you already have them, and assuming a hand size stepper motor, 11A seems more than enough.

?

So, yes, they might work. (I assume no responsibility for any smoke clouds! :D )

?

Nuno T.

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of paul larner via groups.io
Sent: 23 November 2024 11:20
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electronics101] transistor help needed

?

well at the moment aan arduino uno is driving the aod472 fets to drive a nima 23 stepper,i have made a pcb in eagle the buz 72 would be better to mount on the pcb than the d2pak fets,i just wondered if they would work,i am using 24v for the stepper.


--
Nuno T.


Locked Re: Post deleted

 

For instance, the today's great intellectual property of IEEE still has no idea of the simplest and most reliable DSB-SC demodulator which I did (in 1979) as an MS thesis, and I used it for many years, in the 80's, in my private short-range (3 km) RF voice links. It can, unlike the two known ones of Costas Loop and the Squaring method, be integrated as a low-cost IC (it doesn't need I-Q signals or a selective filter).
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I mean, they made themselves so protective to the point they cannot have any idea of an Innovation, if not invention, if made outside their world :)
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Kerim
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Re: ... to see if glass diodes emit any detectable light . . .

 

开云体育

I think the next question is: “Where exactly do you live? So I can move somewhere far!” :D

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Nuno T.

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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of wn4isx via groups.io
Sent: 23 November 2024 17:19
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electronics101] ... to see if glass diodes emit any detectable light . . .

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Hang in there, I do get to glass diodes and 120V....

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I was 14 and using some glass case 1N4004 from Motorola.

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My uncle worked for Ledex and had a special run of 1N4004 made with glass so they could visually inspect the junction. They made many products but their primary product was rotary solenoids, a ~3/8"? pull in was turned into a ~90 degree movement similar to the image shown here.

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Ledex made the locking system for the LEM to Apollo command module.

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[They also modified several hundred dot matrix printers to print braille for free]

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NASA wanted Six Sigma a decade or two before Motorola came up with the idea and wanted visual inspections of the diode junction. [Don't ask why it was NASA!]

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It worked out the visual inspection was no better (and probably worse) then testing Vf at a specified current and breakdown voltage limited to a few uA for 100 hours at various temperatures.

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So I ended up with a 100 of these odd balls. They tested several hundred glass diodes to destruction, it worked out the epoxy case was much better with intense vibration, it didn't shatter like glass. [wonder how much that bit of data cost, oh wait, don't ask, it was NASA!]

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Now the silly part.

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I made a 'bridge' rectifier late one night (early one morning) and got distracted and wired all 4 diodes in series. Yes it was silly.

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Hint do not try to dig out the now gone VNG Australian time station while doing anything that requires total focus....

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Anyway I was just a tad [totally] distracted and was building a full wave, direct line powered 160V DC power supply.

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When I plugged my miswired diode 'bridge'...there was a brilliant flash of light a loud band and the lights went out.

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My room lighting was wired to the same fuse as the outlets. But my room was on a separate magnetic breaker that opened before the fuse. [wonder why Dad added that....] I had the breaker closed before my parents were there...

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Fortunately I wore regular glasses, which were ruined and Mom dug a gazillion bits of glass out of my face and dabbed each puncture with iodine.

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The worse oops I was "part of" was in EE lab when the student in the next work station discharged a ?1uf? 20kV capacitor charged to ~15kV with a 5W 100k carbon comp resistor. I saw what he was going to do, turned and started to say "Don't" but it was too late. The resistor went off like a blasting cap. It ruined my glasses and dress shirt, we had to dress up back then for school, I had a half dozen bits of carbon comp resistor in my face, about the same in both arms, the student who messed up looked like you'd shot him with bird shot, a lot of skin was just peeled away.

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He wailed for about 10 seconds before shock caused him to faint.

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{I puked from the sight.}

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The student didn't return to the program. He wore glasses so his eyes probably survived.

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The dean was unamused, we had a new lab supervisor the next day and I had a nice nurse dig out the bits.?<"Now this is going to hurt." I didn't say "Brilliant like it doesn't hurt right now!">

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The school bought me new glasses and started a rule "Safety glasses must always be worn in the lab" and issued each of us our own pair...and kicked out the next student who didn't wear their glasses, no warning just "You are expelled."

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I still have no idea what he was doing, a capacitor of that value charged to that voltage could kill.

It was a major safety violation and we had health and safety people crawling up our butts for the next month.

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They'd have had a collective heart attack if they'd visited the chemistry labs.
"Safety? We don't need safety, we have luck!"?

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In the late 80s or early 90s a professor was 'cleaning' some chemistry equipment in the engineering quadrangle, and did something wrong, the explosion blew out almost every window in the building, even those in rooms with closed doors. The professor left for greener pastures soon after. They mobilized all the physical plant workers and building operators bought up every push broom at all the Lowe's (and maybe Home Depot, don't know when they came to Lexington) in central Kentucky and spent the next 20 hours sweeping up glass.

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I worked in a building built in 1910 with walls 1 foot thick of concrete. You could feel the blast like someone hit you as hard as they could with a firm pillow. The vet who'd served in Vietnam and I dropped to the floor and rolled next to a thick wall. I thought "Unibomber or Weather Underground...wonder which...." Yea we were laughed at but if it had been an explosion closer, we'd probably have survived unhurt.

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[I went through a civil defense class where the practical consisted of a teacher popping a paper bag filled with air screaming "hit the floor!" at random intervals for 4 hours a day for a week. That made the training stuck. Anyone else remember "duck and cover"?]

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I have no idea what energetic chemicals he was using for what purpose, I suspect he was extremely luck not to be charged with a crime. [or be killed by the blast] The forces of law and order frown on unauthorized explosions. I'd liked to have been a fly on the wall when he explained what happened to the dean of the college of engineering....bet that was interesting.}?

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I've had 3 pieces of resistor work their way of my arms in the last 40 years. Freaked my wife out the first time when I said "Oh, that's just a bit of resistor."

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The oddest thing this year [so far] was a quarter inch piece of something off white about 1/2" X 1/8" came of the? healed surgical incision on my left leg during PT. It freaked the therapist out.

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They didn't sew or directly glue the incision after surgery but placed a flexible mesh over the entire length that extended an ~inch and a half on each side then applied 'glue.'

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I inspected the mesh when it came off and there were no tears or holes.?We showed it to the surgeon and he sent it to pathology, he was a bit concerned. The path report? came back "small piece of pure calcium."

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Now where in the heck did a bit of pure calcium end up just below the surface of the incision? It had to be shallow or it'd never have worked it's way out. And the spot it came from didn't bleed.

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The surgeon ordered a high resolution ultrasonic scan of the incisions on each leg, at hospital expense.

It was interesting to see the inside of the incision, how the scar tissue runs from the surface all the way down to the bone. And, it was really interesting to see the two pieces of metal that make up my new knee joint.

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[We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was...."....a Dr. Pepper to the first to ID the quote...funny my replacement corneas for cataracts don't give me telescopic vision.,,,]

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So yea I've had glass diodes "light up with 120," hope to? never experience it again.

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Did I mention it was loud?? Oh lord was it loud, my ears rang for an hour.?

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[Oh...(mythical)NE-1 neon bulbs also explode when connected between a 100 foot random wire antenna and ground when lightning strikes nearby. Maybe a bit louder.....don't ask.]

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I've often wondered why my parents didn't sell me to the Gypsies..... [No insult intended for the Roma Peoples]

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Ledex was bought by Lucas and my uncle retired...I'll avoid the obligatory jokes about Lucas Lord of Darkness or why the British drink warm beer....


--
Nuno T.


Re: ... to see if glass diodes emit any detectable light . . .

 

On Saturday 23 November 2024 12:18:53 pm wn4isx via groups.io wrote:
Anyone else remember "duck and cover"?]
Yeah.

"Bend over, put your head between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye..."

--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin


Locked Post deleted

wn4isx
 

The IEEE is like Disney, they are extremely protective of their intellectual property.
?
I took a chance and deleted a post that gave a link to bypass a paywall.
I believe it violates Groups IO terms of service.
I'd like for other mods and owners to confirm my action was proper.
?
?


Re: transistor help needed

 

开云体育

24V stepper motors driven by 25V rated MOSFET’s is a really bad idea.

That’s too close to the their limit. A single coil spike could destroy them.

From this perspective, The BUZ seems a better option.

I’m assuming those stepper motors will not consume anywhere near 11A.

As long as they have a good heat sink assembly, it’s worth a try.

If you’re going to buy them on purpose, I advise looking for something better.

If you already have them, and assuming a hand size stepper motor, 11A seems more than enough.

?

So, yes, they might work. (I assume no responsibility for any smoke clouds! :D )

?

Nuno T.

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of paul larner via groups.io
Sent: 23 November 2024 11:20
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electronics101] transistor help needed

?

well at the moment aan arduino uno is driving the aod472 fets to drive a nima 23 stepper,i have made a pcb in eagle the buz 72 would be better to mount on the pcb than the d2pak fets,i just wondered if they would work,i am using 24v for the stepper.


--
Nuno T.


Re: transistor help needed

 

well at the moment aan arduino uno is driving the aod472 fets to drive a nima 23 stepper,i have made a pcb in eagle the buz 72 would be better to mount on the pcb than the d2pak fets,i just wondered if they would work,i am using 24v for the stepper.


Re: transistor help needed

 

开云体育

Hi Paul,

?

Look for their datasheets.

AOD472 is rated at 50A with an RDSon of 0,0095 Ohm

BUZ72A is rated at 11A with an RDSon of 0,25 Ohm

?

What this tells you is, the BUZ72A is only able to handle about 1/5th of the total current. It also has a much higher internal resistance when turned on (RDSon),

meaning it will heat up a lot more for the same amount of current.

No idea what those MOSFET’s are handling, but you’re looking at a possible “cloud of smoke” for each BUZ.

Only advantage I see on those BUZ is their higher voltage handling. Which partially explains the downside with current.

?

AOD472 is rated at 25V. Use this parameter to look for a good replacement in that package you want. Generally speaking, the lower the voltage rating,

the higher the current handling. RDSon varies wildly from device to device (along with price…), a lower RDSon (internal resistance when on), means

lower heat generation, and smaller heatsinks.

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Can’t remember any of the top of my head, supplier websites usually have a search tool with filters, where these parameters are selectable.

?

Nuno T.

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of paul larner via groups.io
Sent: 23 November 2024 08:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electronics101] transistor help needed

?

would a buz 72a be ok for a replacement?


--
Nuno T.


Re: ... to see if glass diodes emit any detectable light . . .

 

开云体育

LOL! Another method is to connect one to the ACMains. (Eye protection recommended!)

Donald.

On 11/22/24 09:27, Gooey via groups.io wrote:

You won't need a scope or night vision, just turn out the lights and peel off packing tape hard and fast . . .

Most likely works with other tape as well.


--
G.T.


Re: transistor help needed

 

would a buz 72a be ok for a replacement?


transistor help needed

 

Hi all,i am building a coil winder using an arduino nano,the nano drives 4 A0D472 d2pac transistors,it works well in a lashup but i need to change the 4 fets to to220 devices,any ideas what part would work?.


Re: An odd bipolar transistor effect......

 

There are transistors that have multiple emitters on the silicon all coming out to the package pin. (RF transistors)
It would be interesting to compare the red light from one of those to a standard transistor.
I have memory that the hard to get 2N5109 has multiple emitters, but I haven't been able to verify it.
Possibly the 2n3886 also has multiple emitters.
?????????????????????? Mikek
????????????????????


Re: An odd bipolar transistor effect......

 

On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 10:41 AM, wn4isx wrote:


Alas, it is locked behind IEEE's paywall.
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:-(
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Andy
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