|
Ok, I know very little about using a lathe, I have two a Mini 4x12 and a Craftsman 12x36 but I have had the time to actually use them. I have done some turning and parting but haven't actually made anything.
So I was wondering about facing something was mention the other day but it didn't register with me?
as Hey This Is Something You Need to Know pay attention.
Ok, when one is facing a end on your lathe the center turns at a different RPM than the exterior,
is that correct??
So when one is facing the "ideal" is to have the bit travel at different speeds across the face, correct?
Well in thinking about stepper motors and different speeds I wondered if anyone had used?
? This Arduino library allows one to set different acceleration/deceleration rates.
I have followed the for a couple of years and there appears to be good support.
I would suppose one would use this separately from any ELS program, unless the ELS program allowed one to implement new features.?
Just wondering if anyone has been down this road.
Ralph
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Ok, I know very little about using a lathe, I have two a Mini 4x12 and a Craftsman 12x36 but I have had the time to actually use them. I have done some turning and parting but haven't actually made anything.
So I was wondering about facing something was mention the other day but it didn't register with me?
as Hey This Is Something You Need to Know pay attention.
Ok, when one is facing a end on your lathe the center turns at a different RPM than the exterior,
is that correct??
Sort of. The RPM is constant. the issue is the surface feed rate, which depends on the radius and the rpm. When you look in a references such as Machinerys Handbook the ¡®Speeds¡¯ part of ¡®Speeds and Feeds¡¯ is always expressed in terms of surface distance/ time unit, usually feet or inches (or cm or mm) ?per second.
In the absence of some means to vary the spindle speed while facing or turning the usual approach is to pick someplace in the middle (for facing) or base it on the outer diameter of the part you¡¯re turning.
With a properly controlled electronically driven spindle you can adjust for this on the fly based on the tool position in reference to the central axis of the spindle.
In practice on a lathe with a few inches throw, like ours, this really doesn¡¯t make much difference at all, because the optimal feed rates are always expressed as a range, based on the material.
Well in thinking about stepper motors and different speeds I wondered if anyone had used?
? This Arduino library allows one to set different acceleration/deceleration rates.
I have followed the for a couple of years and there appears to be good support.
I would suppose one would use this separately from any ELS program, unless the ELS program allowed one to implement new features.?
This library would have to be incorporated into the ELS program itself, not used separately; and this library is designed to change the rates of change at the beginning and end of a movement to avoid sudden and jerky movement that could stress structures attached to the stepper motor. This kind of control is widely used in CNC router-type applications; I'm not sure how much it applies to a 2D system like an ELS.
--? Bruce Johnson
"Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD
|
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 05:29 PM, Ralph Hulslander wrote:
Ok, when one is facing a end on your lathe the center turns at a different RPM than the exterior,
is that correct??
Ralph, The surface speed is how fast the material is actually moving at the point where it is being cut.? It is not related to the feed rate of the tool.? The RPM needs to increase as the cutting tool moves towards the center.? In theory, (not practice, of course), the RPM approaches infinity as the cutting tool approaches the centerline. Example, for which I will use the very rough formula for HSS cutting tools and steel material: RPM = 300 / diameter (in inches) If you are facing a 2-inch diameter round, for example, the RPM at the outer edge should be around 150.? As you move towards the center, and are now cutting at the 1-inch diameter point, the RPM should be around 300.? At 1/2 inch, the RPM should be 600, then 1200 at 1/4 inch, etc. The formula is actually based on calculating for a specific surface speed.? If the RPM is 300 with a diameter of one inch, this means that the surface speed is 1 inch x pi x 300 revolutions = 942 surface inches/minute, or 78.5 surface feet/minute, which is the more common unit of measure. The desired surface speed depends upon the material, type of cutter, machine rigidity, and a number of other factors, but I personally have always found this formula to give me a good starting point for HSS cutters with steel material. I hope this helps. ? -- Regards, Charlie New Jersey, USA
|
Hi Ralph.
The ELS and CSS projects are 2 different things.
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino libraries available.
?
In my case, the CSS was the first of a group of major digital changes I made to my lathe and mill.
A bit of history,?
As I was machining (facing and boring out)?large diameter billets frequently, large?comparatively being 135 mm dia ( mini lathe wise)?
I needed some method that was going to change the spindle RPM in line with the optimum surface speeds required whilst manually moving the
cross slide in and out. It was always hit and miss changing RPM?s by moving the as standard fitted? lathe ""potentiometer".
My normal approach to manual facing was to turn the X slide handwheel with one hand overlapping the other to avoid and dwell marks.
this was not easy without a CSS as my left hand was always turning the "pot". to change speeds relative to the radial position of the tool to the workpiece.
and my right hand turning the X slide handwheel.
I am sure you could visualize my dilemma. So hopefully that has cleared up the CSS issues you had.
Then along came the ELS which basically took the manual movements out of facing but in no way did it offer the luxury of a CSS (RPM change). or
Constant Surface Change, this was the icing on the cake, and was integral with the x slide movements .IE ELS and CSS?
Hope this clarifies a few things for you.
So where are we now with you.?
is it CSS, ELS, or Power feeding the mill with eventual aims of a full CNC retrofit.
It?s not possible IMHO to have all these tennis balls in the air without dropping one or two trying to catch them all.
If you can focus on moving forward on a particular project, we have numerous people in the forum who have the experience
and the knowledge to help you, but it is a bit confusing at this moment to know where forum members can assist jumping from
one subject matter to another.?
There are more future digital goodies to come along, but I need to feed them into the forum slowly.
More # tags for Charlie,
Ralph, have a?very good weekend, if you need help we are here, but not cleaning up your workshop. LOL
Also all members to have a good productive hobby weekend.
--
John
|
Thanks everyone I sure appreciate all of the input.
Sorry John, I know it looks like I am trying to do a lot of different?things but this is all a thought process. I am only gathering information for when I actually do something.
I am also having to budget what I am going to be able to do as I depend on Social Security for my funding.
But at the moment I can afford everything plus I have a ton of "things" on hand.
You have not even heard half of the things I am "thinking" of doing. Luckily I am retired so have lots of free time, HA.
Thanks again,
Ralph
Hi Ralph.
The ELS and CSS projects are 2 different things.
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino libraries available.
?
In my case, the CSS was the first of a group of major digital changes I made to my lathe and mill.
A bit of history,?
As I was machining (facing and boring out)?large diameter billets frequently, large?comparatively being 135 mm dia ( mini lathe wise)?
I needed some method that was going to change the spindle RPM in line with the optimum surface speeds required whilst manually moving the
cross slide in and out. It was always hit and miss changing RPM?s by moving the as standard fitted? lathe ""potentiometer".
My normal approach to manual facing was to turn the X slide handwheel with one hand overlapping the other to avoid and dwell marks.
this was not easy without a CSS as my left hand was always turning the "pot". to change speeds relative to the radial position of the tool to the workpiece.
and my right hand turning the X slide handwheel.
I am sure you could visualize my dilemma. So hopefully that has cleared up the CSS issues you had.
Then along came the ELS which basically took the manual movements out of facing but in no way did it offer the luxury of a CSS (RPM change). or
Constant Surface Change, this was the icing on the cake, and was integral with the x slide movements .IE ELS and CSS?
Hope this clarifies a few things for you.
So where are we now with you.?
is it CSS, ELS, or Power feeding the mill with eventual aims of a full CNC retrofit.
It?s not possible IMHO to have all these tennis balls in the air without dropping one or two trying to catch them all.
If you can focus on moving forward on a particular project, we have numerous people in the forum who have the experience
and the knowledge to help you, but it is a bit confusing at this moment to know where forum members can assist jumping from
one subject matter to another.?
There are more future digital goodies to come along, but I need to feed them into the forum slowly.
More # tags for Charlie,
Ralph, have a?very good weekend, if you need help we are here, but not cleaning up your workshop. LOL
Also all members to have a good productive hobby weekend.
--
John
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Ralph.
No problem, organise the day, and don?t let it do it for you.Set a goal ( I know can be daunting)? and achieve that. We say poco poco translates to little by little. LOL, I just heard the woman of the house Pamela calling out that she needs? 5 minutes of my time, fixing something that broke or the cats have broken. Dread to think, normally it?s hours of work. Thank god for 3D printers. Hands up, I am not a DIY person around the house, in fact the worlds worst. Pamela has her own toolkit, it?s best I say, she then hangs up pictures etc to the last 0.00 degrees. LOL ?But I do all the electrical stuff up to a point and the plumbing. Have a good one
Thanks everyone I sure appreciate all of the input.
Sorry John, I know it looks like I am trying to do a lot of different?things but this is all a thought process. I am only gathering information for when I actually do something.
I am also having to budget what I am going to be able to do as I depend on Social Security for my funding.
But at the moment I can afford everything plus I have a ton of "things" on hand.
You have not even heard half of the things I am "thinking" of doing. Luckily I am retired so have lots of free time, HA.
Thanks again,
Ralph
Hi Ralph.
The ELS and CSS projects are 2 different things.
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino libraries available.
?
In my case, the CSS was the first of a group of major digital changes I made to my lathe and mill.
A bit of history,?
As I was machining (facing and boring out)?large diameter billets frequently, large?comparatively being 135 mm dia ( mini lathe wise)?
I needed some method that was going to change the spindle RPM in line with the optimum surface speeds required whilst manually moving the
cross slide in and out. It was always hit and miss changing RPM?s by moving the as standard fitted? lathe ""potentiometer".
My normal approach to manual facing was to turn the X slide handwheel with one hand overlapping the other to avoid and dwell marks.
this was not easy without a CSS as my left hand was always turning the "pot". to change speeds relative to the radial position of the tool to the workpiece.
and my right hand turning the X slide handwheel.
I am sure you could visualize my dilemma. So hopefully that has cleared up the CSS issues you had.
Then along came the ELS which basically took the manual movements out of facing but in no way did it offer the luxury of a CSS (RPM change). or
Constant Surface Change, this was the icing on the cake, and was integral with the x slide movements .IE ELS and CSS?
Hope this clarifies a few things for you.
So where are we now with you.?
is it CSS, ELS, or Power feeding the mill with eventual aims of a full CNC retrofit.
It?s not possible IMHO to have all these tennis balls in the air without dropping one or two trying to catch them all.
If you can focus on moving forward on a particular project, we have numerous people in the forum who have the experience
and the knowledge to help you, but it is a bit confusing at this moment to know where forum members can assist jumping from
one subject matter to another.?
There are more future digital goodies to come along, but I need to feed them into the forum slowly.
More # tags for Charlie,
Ralph, have a?very good weekend, if you need help we are here, but not cleaning up your workshop. LOL
Also all members to have a good productive hobby weekend.
--
John
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
--
John
|
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:39 PM, John Lindo wrote:
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino libraries available.
At some point, I'd like to have a look at the source code for the ELS...is it available online?
|
I am tidying up the code the John and I have used and intend putting it
into the files section in the very near future.
Richard
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 23/08/2019 19:09, Fast Eddie wrote: On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:39 PM, John Lindo wrote:
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment
tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino
libraries available.
At some point, I'd like to have a look at the source code for the
ELS...is it available online?
|
John Lindo