Hi, Ralph and Eddie, Hashtags are used here almost like keywords, and are an effective way for you to see all posts and/or topics on a certain subject.? For example, if you wish to view all posts involving ELS, you can display only those with #ELS hashtags.? When in the Message section, there are buttons that read, "Topics" or "Messages", "#Hashtags", and "Search".? (See button circled in red below.)? If you then click on the "#Hashtags" button, you can select any of the active hashtags and only those Topics or Messages will be displayed.? By selecting "#ELS", for example, only #ELS Topics/Messages will be displayed.? I hope this helps!??  #ARD is a great idea, and I will add it. -- Regards, Charlie New Jersey, USA
|
Charlie # Levinski
Thanks.Well done.
Hi, All,
I have added a #CAD hashtag for posts about 2-D or 3-D CAD programs.
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
--
John
|
Excellent suggestion. Now we need someone who knows what they are doing
with #ARD!
Richard
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28/08/2019 19:50, Fast Eddie wrote: Hi Ralph!
Apparently I am in the same boat, as #hashtags are new and somewhat
foreign to me and not part of my generation. Hashtags are a means of
sorting or filtering out what you want to read...if you love ELS but
hate discussions of #3D printers, you can use the hashtag to keep your
eyes from being offended by topics that may not pertain solely to ELS.
Or at least that's my understanding.
#Hashtags remind me of pointers in C in that they point to the various
topics.
As for suggestions of another #hashtag, even though we are not there
yet, I think *#ARD*uino might be a good one. It appears that an
Arduino is at the core of the ELS, and if so, you will likely have to
know how to compile the code without errors and upload it to the Arduino.
|
Great info, Eddie!? Thanks for posting this!
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
|
Hi Ralph!
Apparently I am in the same boat, as #hashtags are new and somewhat foreign to me and not part of my generation. Hashtags are a means of sorting or filtering out what you want to read...if you love ELS but hate discussions of #3D printers, you can use the hashtag to keep your eyes from being offended by topics that may not pertain solely to ELS. Or at least that's my understanding.
#Hashtags remind me of pointers in C in that they point to the various topics.
As for suggestions of another #hashtag, even though we are not there yet, I think #ARDuino might be a good one. It appears that an Arduino is at the core of the ELS, and if so, you will likely have to know how to compile the code without errors and upload it to the Arduino.
|
Thanks for the reminder! Picked up the Fusion 360 for Hobbyists and Woodworkers (the description includes a lot more than woodworking: 3D printing, designing for CNC, etc) at $10 it¡¯s a steal and a no-brainer!
Now just to find the time to do it! On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:06 AM, Fast Eddie < epinnell@...> wrote:
Note: this was originally posted on the 7x12 group but topic was locked by Mods. This sale ends tonight at 11:59PDT. Here is a? ?-??? -? ?to avoid the link break hassle with long URLs.?
Just wanted to point out that Udemy has a 3-day, $9.99 special on many courses, for those wanting to pick up a new skill (SolidWorks, Fusion 360, etc.)
--? Bruce Johnson
"Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD
|
Note: this was originally posted on the 7x12 group but topic was locked by Mods. This sale ends tonight at 11:59PDT. Here is a? ?-??? -? ?to avoid the link break hassle with long URLs.?
Just wanted to point out that Udemy has a 3-day, $9.99 special on many courses, for those wanting to pick up a new skill (SolidWorks, Fusion 360, etc.)
|
I am not sure I understand what you are doing with the Hashtags?
Ralph
Hi, All,
I have added a #CAD hashtag for posts about 2-D or 3-D CAD programs.
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
I am tidying up the code the John and I have used and intend putting it
into the files section in the very near future.
Richard
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 23/08/2019 19:09, Fast Eddie wrote: On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:39 PM, John Lindo wrote:
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment
tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino
libraries available.
At some point, I'd like to have a look at the source code for the
ELS...is it available online?
|
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:39 PM, John Lindo wrote:
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino libraries available.
At some point, I'd like to have a look at the source code for the ELS...is it available online?
|
Ralph.
No problem, organise the day, and don?t let it do it for you.Set a goal ( I know can be daunting)? and achieve that. We say poco poco translates to little by little. LOL, I just heard the woman of the house Pamela calling out that she needs? 5 minutes of my time, fixing something that broke or the cats have broken. Dread to think, normally it?s hours of work. Thank god for 3D printers. Hands up, I am not a DIY person around the house, in fact the worlds worst. Pamela has her own toolkit, it?s best I say, she then hangs up pictures etc to the last 0.00 degrees. LOL ?But I do all the electrical stuff up to a point and the plumbing. Have a good one
Thanks everyone I sure appreciate all of the input.
Sorry John, I know it looks like I am trying to do a lot of different?things but this is all a thought process. I am only gathering information for when I actually do something.
I am also having to budget what I am going to be able to do as I depend on Social Security for my funding.
But at the moment I can afford everything plus I have a ton of "things" on hand.
You have not even heard half of the things I am "thinking" of doing. Luckily I am retired so have lots of free time, HA.
Thanks again,
Ralph
Hi Ralph.
The ELS and CSS projects are 2 different things.
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino libraries available.
?
In my case, the CSS was the first of a group of major digital changes I made to my lathe and mill.
A bit of history,?
As I was machining (facing and boring out)?large diameter billets frequently, large?comparatively being 135 mm dia ( mini lathe wise)?
I needed some method that was going to change the spindle RPM in line with the optimum surface speeds required whilst manually moving the
cross slide in and out. It was always hit and miss changing RPM?s by moving the as standard fitted? lathe ""potentiometer".
My normal approach to manual facing was to turn the X slide handwheel with one hand overlapping the other to avoid and dwell marks.
this was not easy without a CSS as my left hand was always turning the "pot". to change speeds relative to the radial position of the tool to the workpiece.
and my right hand turning the X slide handwheel.
I am sure you could visualize my dilemma. So hopefully that has cleared up the CSS issues you had.
Then along came the ELS which basically took the manual movements out of facing but in no way did it offer the luxury of a CSS (RPM change). or
Constant Surface Change, this was the icing on the cake, and was integral with the x slide movements .IE ELS and CSS?
Hope this clarifies a few things for you.
So where are we now with you.?
is it CSS, ELS, or Power feeding the mill with eventual aims of a full CNC retrofit.
It?s not possible IMHO to have all these tennis balls in the air without dropping one or two trying to catch them all.
If you can focus on moving forward on a particular project, we have numerous people in the forum who have the experience
and the knowledge to help you, but it is a bit confusing at this moment to know where forum members can assist jumping from
one subject matter to another.?
There are more future digital goodies to come along, but I need to feed them into the forum slowly.
More # tags for Charlie,
Ralph, have a?very good weekend, if you need help we are here, but not cleaning up your workshop. LOL
Also all members to have a good productive hobby weekend.
--
John
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
--
John
|
Thanks everyone I sure appreciate all of the input.
Sorry John, I know it looks like I am trying to do a lot of different?things but this is all a thought process. I am only gathering information for when I actually do something.
I am also having to budget what I am going to be able to do as I depend on Social Security for my funding.
But at the moment I can afford everything plus I have a ton of "things" on hand.
You have not even heard half of the things I am "thinking" of doing. Luckily I am retired so have lots of free time, HA.
Thanks again,
Ralph
Hi Ralph.
The ELS and CSS projects are 2 different things.
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino libraries available.
?
In my case, the CSS was the first of a group of major digital changes I made to my lathe and mill.
A bit of history,?
As I was machining (facing and boring out)?large diameter billets frequently, large?comparatively being 135 mm dia ( mini lathe wise)?
I needed some method that was going to change the spindle RPM in line with the optimum surface speeds required whilst manually moving the
cross slide in and out. It was always hit and miss changing RPM?s by moving the as standard fitted? lathe ""potentiometer".
My normal approach to manual facing was to turn the X slide handwheel with one hand overlapping the other to avoid and dwell marks.
this was not easy without a CSS as my left hand was always turning the "pot". to change speeds relative to the radial position of the tool to the workpiece.
and my right hand turning the X slide handwheel.
I am sure you could visualize my dilemma. So hopefully that has cleared up the CSS issues you had.
Then along came the ELS which basically took the manual movements out of facing but in no way did it offer the luxury of a CSS (RPM change). or
Constant Surface Change, this was the icing on the cake, and was integral with the x slide movements .IE ELS and CSS?
Hope this clarifies a few things for you.
So where are we now with you.?
is it CSS, ELS, or Power feeding the mill with eventual aims of a full CNC retrofit.
It?s not possible IMHO to have all these tennis balls in the air without dropping one or two trying to catch them all.
If you can focus on moving forward on a particular project, we have numerous people in the forum who have the experience
and the knowledge to help you, but it is a bit confusing at this moment to know where forum members can assist jumping from
one subject matter to another.?
There are more future digital goodies to come along, but I need to feed them into the forum slowly.
More # tags for Charlie,
Ralph, have a?very good weekend, if you need help we are here, but not cleaning up your workshop. LOL
Also all members to have a good productive hobby weekend.
--
John
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
I am "thinking" of using a brushless DC motor to drive the spindle so I would not use the change gear.
Gee, I better do a new thread on changing the motor.
Ralph
On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 2:33 AM Richard < edelec@...> wrote: "Ralph Hulslander said
John Dammeyer's original ELS accepted one pulse per rev and still does
accurate threads and turnings."
Yes maybe it does but that has nothing to do with your original question
which discussed putting the encoder on the motor instead of the spindle.
If you have a Low/High gear your counts per revolution of the spindle
will change with the gear change. If you have a gear ratio between motor
and spindle this needs to be taken into account. These parameters are
"embedded" in the software and not modifiable at run time.
John Dammeyer's ELS is an excellent bit of kit but it still has
problems. I built and ran the system for a few years and therefore have
a little knowledge. If everything is perfect one pulse per rev works
well, however we do not live in a perfect world. If the spindle slows
slightly during a cut the tool is still being controlled at the original
rate therefore the cut load will increase. If cutting a thread with a
large pitch that can cause problems. When I had the system after having
problems I overcame them by using "Spreadsheet CNC" to cut deep threads,
typically when making a worm or a Hob in Silver Steel (Drill Rod).
Since fitting the Russian ELS I have had less problems to the extent
that I can alter my spindle speed during a cut with no problems and even
a stall does not result in a broken tool. (VFD on 750watt motor but the
drive belt tends to slip sometimes).
The JD ELS also still has problems with cutting internal tapers, but
that is a different subject.
Richard
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Hi Ralph.
The ELS and CSS projects are 2 different things.
Whether it is possible to integrate into one, at, this moment tricky would be an understatement.even with the latest Arduino libraries available.
?
In my case, the CSS was the first of a group of major digital changes I made to my lathe and mill.
A bit of history,?
As I was machining (facing and boring out)?large diameter billets frequently, large?comparatively being 135 mm dia ( mini lathe wise)?
I needed some method that was going to change the spindle RPM in line with the optimum surface speeds required whilst manually moving the
cross slide in and out. It was always hit and miss changing RPM?s by moving the as standard fitted? lathe ""potentiometer".
My normal approach to manual facing was to turn the X slide handwheel with one hand overlapping the other to avoid and dwell marks.
this was not easy without a CSS as my left hand was always turning the "pot". to change speeds relative to the radial position of the tool to the workpiece.
and my right hand turning the X slide handwheel.
I am sure you could visualize my dilemma. So hopefully that has cleared up the CSS issues you had.
Then along came the ELS which basically took the manual movements out of facing but in no way did it offer the luxury of a CSS (RPM change). or
Constant Surface Change, this was the icing on the cake, and was integral with the x slide movements .IE ELS and CSS?
Hope this clarifies a few things for you.
So where are we now with you.?
is it CSS, ELS, or Power feeding the mill with eventual aims of a full CNC retrofit.
It?s not possible IMHO to have all these tennis balls in the air without dropping one or two trying to catch them all.
If you can focus on moving forward on a particular project, we have numerous people in the forum who have the experience
and the knowledge to help you, but it is a bit confusing at this moment to know where forum members can assist jumping from
one subject matter to another.?
There are more future digital goodies to come along, but I need to feed them into the forum slowly.
More # tags for Charlie,
Ralph, have a?very good weekend, if you need help we are here, but not cleaning up your workshop. LOL
Also all members to have a good productive hobby weekend.
--
John
|
"Ralph Hulslander said
John Dammeyer's original ELS accepted one pulse per rev and still does
accurate threads and turnings."
Yes maybe it does but that has nothing to do with your original question
which discussed putting the encoder on the motor instead of the spindle.
If you have a Low/High gear your counts per revolution of the spindle
will change with the gear change. If you have a gear ratio between motor
and spindle this needs to be taken into account. These parameters are
"embedded" in the software and not modifiable at run time.
John Dammeyer's ELS is an excellent bit of kit but it still has
problems. I built and ran the system for a few years and therefore have
a little knowledge. If everything is perfect one pulse per rev works
well, however we do not live in a perfect world. If the spindle slows
slightly during a cut the tool is still being controlled at the original
rate therefore the cut load will increase. If cutting a thread with a
large pitch that can cause problems. When I had the system after having
problems I overcame them by using "Spreadsheet CNC" to cut deep threads,
typically when making a worm or a Hob in Silver Steel (Drill Rod).
Since fitting the Russian ELS I have had less problems to the extent
that I can alter my spindle speed during a cut with no problems and even
a stall does not result in a broken tool. (VFD on 750watt motor but the
drive belt tends to slip sometimes).
The JD ELS also still has problems with cutting internal tapers, but
that is a different subject.
Richard
|
Ralph,
I will defer to Richard and the other ELS experts here to clarify this point, but I honestly don't see how it can be done accurately and with a good finish with one pulse per spindle rotation.
The mass of the spindle, chuck, and work would be a factor; the higher the mass, the greater the inertia and the more revolutions it would take to change speed, so the fewer pulses per revolution would be needed.? But I think it would be an issue with a mini-lathe with a low mass ER32 collet check, for example.
Let's see what Richard and our other ELS experts say...
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
|
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 05:29 PM, Ralph Hulslander wrote:
Ok, when one is facing a end on your lathe the center turns at a different RPM than the exterior,
is that correct??
Ralph, The surface speed is how fast the material is actually moving at the point where it is being cut.? It is not related to the feed rate of the tool.? The RPM needs to increase as the cutting tool moves towards the center.? In theory, (not practice, of course), the RPM approaches infinity as the cutting tool approaches the centerline. Example, for which I will use the very rough formula for HSS cutting tools and steel material: RPM = 300 / diameter (in inches) If you are facing a 2-inch diameter round, for example, the RPM at the outer edge should be around 150.? As you move towards the center, and are now cutting at the 1-inch diameter point, the RPM should be around 300.? At 1/2 inch, the RPM should be 600, then 1200 at 1/4 inch, etc. The formula is actually based on calculating for a specific surface speed.? If the RPM is 300 with a diameter of one inch, this means that the surface speed is 1 inch x pi x 300 revolutions = 942 surface inches/minute, or 78.5 surface feet/minute, which is the more common unit of measure. The desired surface speed depends upon the material, type of cutter, machine rigidity, and a number of other factors, but I personally have always found this formula to give me a good starting point for HSS cutters with steel material. I hope this helps. ? -- Regards, Charlie New Jersey, USA
|
Ok, I know very little about using a lathe, I have two a Mini 4x12 and a Craftsman 12x36 but I have had the time to actually use them. I have done some turning and parting but haven't actually made anything.
So I was wondering about facing something was mention the other day but it didn't register with me?
as Hey This Is Something You Need to Know pay attention.
Ok, when one is facing a end on your lathe the center turns at a different RPM than the exterior,
is that correct??
Sort of. The RPM is constant. the issue is the surface feed rate, which depends on the radius and the rpm. When you look in a references such as Machinerys Handbook the ¡®Speeds¡¯ part of ¡®Speeds and Feeds¡¯ is always expressed in terms of surface distance/ time unit, usually feet or inches (or cm or mm) ?per second.
In the absence of some means to vary the spindle speed while facing or turning the usual approach is to pick someplace in the middle (for facing) or base it on the outer diameter of the part you¡¯re turning.
With a properly controlled electronically driven spindle you can adjust for this on the fly based on the tool position in reference to the central axis of the spindle.
In practice on a lathe with a few inches throw, like ours, this really doesn¡¯t make much difference at all, because the optimal feed rates are always expressed as a range, based on the material.
Well in thinking about stepper motors and different speeds I wondered if anyone had used?
? This Arduino library allows one to set different acceleration/deceleration rates.
I have followed the for a couple of years and there appears to be good support.
I would suppose one would use this separately from any ELS program, unless the ELS program allowed one to implement new features.?
This library would have to be incorporated into the ELS program itself, not used separately; and this library is designed to change the rates of change at the beginning and end of a movement to avoid sudden and jerky movement that could stress structures attached to the stepper motor. This kind of control is widely used in CNC router-type applications; I'm not sure how much it applies to a 2D system like an ELS.
--? Bruce Johnson
"Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD
|
Ok, I know very little about using a lathe, I have two a Mini 4x12 and a Craftsman 12x36 but I have had the time to actually use them. I have done some turning and parting but haven't actually made anything.
So I was wondering about facing something was mention the other day but it didn't register with me?
as Hey This Is Something You Need to Know pay attention.
Ok, when one is facing a end on your lathe the center turns at a different RPM than the exterior,
is that correct??
So when one is facing the "ideal" is to have the bit travel at different speeds across the face, correct?
Well in thinking about stepper motors and different speeds I wondered if anyone had used?
? This Arduino library allows one to set different acceleration/deceleration rates.
I have followed the for a couple of years and there appears to be good support.
I would suppose one would use this separately from any ELS program, unless the ELS program allowed one to implement new features.?
Just wondering if anyone has been down this road.
Ralph
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
John Dammeyer's original ELS accepted one pulse per rev and still does accurate threads and turnings.
Ralph
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 1:14 PM Richard < edelec@...> wrote: Do you have a gear ratio between motor and spindle? Do you have high and
low gear?? If you do the motor option is a No-No. The encoder counts are
entered as a constant in the software so could be changed however I
would take a good look at the software before you go that route.
Richard
On 22/08/2019 15:45, Ralph Hulslander wrote:
> Thanks Charlie, that is what I was guessing. I am "thinking" of using
> a optical disk I could pretty easily do 100 holes
> doing more would get tedious, and I am "thinking" of putting the
> encoder on the motor shaft, is there a? way to input
> pulse per rev in the controller? I have some CUI Inc. AMT102-V
> <>encoders.
>
> Ralph
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 8:27 PM CLevinski <clevinski@...
> <mailto:clevinski@...>> wrote:
>
>? ? ?On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 04:41 PM, Ralph Hulslander wrote:
>
>? ? ? ? ?Charlie, and others. Why the spindle encoder? Is a multicount
>? ? ? ? ?required to get the spindle speed?
>? ? ? ? ?I have seen lots of RPM devices that used one pulse others got
>? ? ? ? ?their accuracy with 8 pulses.
>? ? ? ? ?So is 600 or 1200 or even 2400 pulses really required?
>? ? ? ? ?Is there documentation on the software you are using?
>
>? ? ?Hi, Ralph,
>
>? ? ?The spindle encoder is crucial so the ELS controller knows how
>? ? ?fast to drive the lead screw at any given instant.? I usually
>? ? ?thread now using a hand crank; the change gears ensure that the
>? ? ?lead screw turns at the right speed to match my spindle speed.?
>? ? ?But without the gears, how is the lead screw speed to be
>? ? ?determined?? In ELS, it is calculated by the controller as a
>? ? ?specific ratio of lead screw RPM to spindle RPM.? The encoder is
>? ? ?how we determine spindle RPM so we can set lesd screw RPM.
>
>? ? ?In general, (and I believe in this case), the fewer pulses per
>? ? ?revolution, the more that you are seeing an average RPM, rather
>? ? ?than an accurate one.? This is fine if all you are doing is
>? ? ?reading the RPM on a display.? But with ELS and a very low count
>? ? ?encoder, the spindle might be able to make a significant change in
>? ? ?speed before the processor "knows" about it (because it cannot
>? ? ?update more often than once per pulse), and can adjust the lead
>? ? ?screw and or cross-slide motors to match.? This would result in
>? ? ?uneven threads and poorer finishes.
>
>? ? ?At least, this is my understanding with the current implementation.
>
>? ? ?--
>? ? ?Regards,
>
>? ? ?Charlie
>? ? ?New Jersey, USA
>
>
> --
> Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill
> press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D
> printer
>
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
John Lindo