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NEOCP object A11nyuL
Hello all , I know it's still too early to ask this, as the data is still uncertain, and I might be overstepping into something I don't fully understand, but I just realized that this object shares almost the same orbital elements with the Great Comet of 1910. Can you please confirm this? Thanks, Med On Sun, May 25, 2025, 10:23 S¨¢rneczky Kriszti¨¢n via <siraly74=[email protected]> wrote:
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDear Krisztian, Med, all, ? It¡¯s still quite early in the game, but, indeed, this object does look interesting. There does seem to be some similarity to the orbit of the Daylight Comet of 1910, although the difference in the ascending node (as of right now, anyway), would seem to preclude a relationship. But, we¡¯ll see what the future holds . . . ? I succeeded in getting some images last night via LCO-SAAO. The appearance is almost stellar, although it does seem to be slightly diffuse when compared with stars of similar brightness. I¡¯ve reported it to the MPC (and CBAT) as a ¡°possible¡± comet. ? If something like the present orbit holds, the post-perihelion viewing geometry (when there would likely be the most dust tail development) favors the northern hemisphere. For a while, the phase angle is somewhat high, so possibly some dust tail (if there is one) enhancement from forward scattering. And ¨C yea! ¨C it¡¯s in the evening sky. On the other hand, with this small a perihelion distance, it would have to survive perihelion to put on any kind of show, and that is always problematical. ? Again, we¡¯ll just have to wait and see. I¡¯ll probably try imaging it again in a day or so. ? ? Sincerely, Alan ? Hello all , ? I know it's still too early to ask this, as the data is still uncertain, and I might be overstepping into something I don't fully understand, but I just realized that this object shares almost the same orbital elements with the Great Comet of 1910. Can you please confirm this? ? Thanks, Med ? ? On Sun, May 25, 2025, 10:23 S¨¢rneczky Kriszti¨¢n via <siraly74=[email protected]> wrote:
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDear all, ? Here is one of the images I obtained last night from LCO-SAAO. 180-second exposure with a 35-cm Cassegrain; cropped, but otherwise no processing. ? I have another set of images ordered up for tonight. ? ? Sincerely, Alan ? Dear Krisztian, Med, all, ? It¡¯s still quite early in the game, but, indeed, this object does look interesting. There does seem to be some similarity to the orbit of the Daylight Comet of 1910, although the difference in the ascending node (as of right now, anyway), would seem to preclude a relationship. But, we¡¯ll see what the future holds . . . ? I succeeded in getting some images last night via LCO-SAAO. The appearance is almost stellar, although it does seem to be slightly diffuse when compared with stars of similar brightness. I¡¯ve reported it to the MPC (and CBAT) as a ¡°possible¡± comet. ? If something like the present orbit holds, the post-perihelion viewing geometry (when there would likely be the most dust tail development) favors the northern hemisphere. For a while, the phase angle is somewhat high, so possibly some dust tail (if there is one) enhancement from forward scattering. And ¨C yea! ¨C it¡¯s in the evening sky. On the other hand, with this small a perihelion distance, it would have to survive perihelion to put on any kind of show, and that is always problematical. ? Again, we¡¯ll just have to wait and see. I¡¯ll probably try imaging it again in a day or so. ? ? Sincerely, Alan ? Hello all , ? I know it's still too early to ask this, as the data is still uncertain, and I might be overstepping into something I don't fully understand, but I just realized that this object shares almost the same orbital elements with the Great Comet of 1910. Can you please confirm this? ? Thanks, Med ? ? On Sun, May 25, 2025, 10:23 S¨¢rneczky Kriszti¨¢n via <siraly74=[email protected]> wrote:
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýForgot to add: image was taken on May 25.13 UT. ? Dear all, ? Here is one of the images I obtained last night from LCO-SAAO. 180-second exposure with a 35-cm Cassegrain; cropped, but otherwise no processing. ? I have another set of images ordered up for tonight. ? ? Sincerely, Alan ? Dear Krisztian, Med, all, ? It¡¯s still quite early in the game, but, indeed, this object does look interesting. There does seem to be some similarity to the orbit of the Daylight Comet of 1910, although the difference in the ascending node (as of right now, anyway), would seem to preclude a relationship. But, we¡¯ll see what the future holds . . . ? I succeeded in getting some images last night via LCO-SAAO. The appearance is almost stellar, although it does seem to be slightly diffuse when compared with stars of similar brightness. I¡¯ve reported it to the MPC (and CBAT) as a ¡°possible¡± comet. ? If something like the present orbit holds, the post-perihelion viewing geometry (when there would likely be the most dust tail development) favors the northern hemisphere. For a while, the phase angle is somewhat high, so possibly some dust tail (if there is one) enhancement from forward scattering. And ¨C yea! ¨C it¡¯s in the evening sky. On the other hand, with this small a perihelion distance, it would have to survive perihelion to put on any kind of show, and that is always problematical. ? Again, we¡¯ll just have to wait and see. I¡¯ll probably try imaging it again in a day or so. ? ? Sincerely, Alan ? Hello all , ? I know it's still too early to ask this, as the data is still uncertain, and I might be overstepping into something I don't fully understand, but I just realized that this object shares almost the same orbital elements with the Great Comet of 1910. Can you please confirm this? ? Thanks, Med ? ? On Sun, May 25, 2025, 10:23 S¨¢rneczky Kriszti¨¢n via <siraly74=[email protected]> wrote:
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Hi Alan,
Have you tried calculating the FWHM of the object and that of the nearby stars? Reagards, Roberto Haver 157 Frasso Sabino On Sun, 25 May 2025 15:27:59 -0600 "Alan Hale" <ahale@...> wrote: Dear all, |
Hi all, Early this morning I scheduled the observation of this possible comet from L81, a coma of about 8" is visible. The FWHM is higher than that of the stars, almost double. Missatge de Roberto via <me3540=[email protected]> del dia dl., 26 de maig 2025 a les 11:52: Hi Alan, |
All,
despite the short arc the orbit seems already established well enough for planning purposes. Orbital elements: A11nyuL Perihelion 2025 Oct 4.95827 +/- 2.35 TT; Constraint: e=1 Meyer Epoch 2025 May 26.0 TT = JDT 2460821.5 Earth MOID: 0.1282 Ve: 0.0137 q 0.35863235 +/- 0.0167 Me: 0.0874 H 13.36 G 0.15 Peri. 269.79921 +/- 0.9 Node 97.95374 +/- 0.19 e 1.0 +/- 0 Incl. 147.39993 +/- 0.28 46 of 47 observations 2025 May 24-26; mean residual 0".37 However, given the current absolute magnitude the comet clearly falls below the Bortle survival limit, which would be at about 9.2 mag. Of course, the absolute magnitude might be an underestimate now but I wonder it it can make up 4 magnitudes... Even if it survives, surprises, or whatsoever, and with an absolute magnitude H10 of 9.5, the comet won't be brighter than magnitude 6 around perihelion. Northern hemisphere seems definitely favoured and given the current drought on visual comets I really hope that it survives... I am still fine with a 10 mag comet! Maik -- "One cannot discover comets lying in bed." * Lewis Swift ________________________________________________________________________ |
Based on this orbit (thanks Maik) I note on June 1.0UT this comet passes just 70" from 12th mag gx NGC 7280: Nice photo op :)
On Monday 26 May 2025 at 15:58:45 IST, Maik Meyer <maik@...> wrote:
All, despite the short arc the orbit seems already established well enough for planning purposes. Orbital elements:? A11nyuL ? ? Perihelion 2025 Oct 4.95827 +/- 2.35 TT;? Constraint: e=1? ? Meyer Epoch 2025 May 26.0 TT = JDT 2460821.5? Earth MOID: 0.1282? Ve: 0.0137 q? 0.35863235 +/- 0.0167? ? ? ? ? Me: 0.0874 H? 13.36 G 0.15? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Peri.? 269.79921 +/- 0.9 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Node? ? 97.95374 +/- 0.19 e? 1.0 +/- 0? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Incl.? 147.39993 +/- 0.28 46 of 47 observations 2025 May 24-26; mean residual 0".37 However, given the current absolute magnitude the comet clearly falls below the Bortle survival limit, which would be at about 9.2 mag. Of course, the absolute magnitude might be an underestimate now but I wonder it it can make up 4 magnitudes... Even if it survives, surprises, or whatsoever, and with an absolute magnitude H10 of 9.5, the comet won't be brighter than magnitude 6 around perihelion. Northern hemisphere seems definitely favoured and given the current drought on visual comets I really hope that it survives... I am still fine with a 10 mag comet! Maik -- "One cannot discover comets lying in bed." * Lewis Swift ________________________________________________________________________ |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Roberto, all, ? Astrometrica automatically gives FWHM measurements, but I usually don¡¯t pay too much attention to these, especially since the MPC¡¯s ¡°Report Cometary Activity¡± form requests full coma diameters and specifically states ¡°not FWHM.¡± ? I took an additional set of images last night, coincidentally at almost exactly the same time as Jordi¡¯s image that he posted. The appearance on my images is very similar to the appearance on his, i.e., condensed, but slightly and definitely diffuse. I¡¯ve now reported it to the MPC as ¡°definitely cometary,¡± and I see that it has now been moved to the PCCP. ? As Maik has pointed out, the orbit looks reasonably solid now. It¡¯s not quite as ¡°interesting¡± as some of the initial orbits, but still looks pretty good. The big question, as he states, is whether or not it will survive a perihelion passage this close to the sun. Hopefully it will undergo an upsurge in activity as it approaches perihelion, and perhaps it might turn out to be ¡°old¡± in the Oort sense; if all this happens, then we northerners might still be in for perhaps a somewhat decent show, although probably not any kind of ¡°Great Comet.¡± ? Sincerely, Alan ? Hi Alan, Have you tried calculating the FWHM of the object and that of the nearby stars? Reagards, Roberto Haver 157 Frasso Sabino ? ? |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý?Of course the MPC on the dedicated page asks for the diameter
and not the FWHM.
But the FWHM is the only scientific tool to be sure that the
recorded object is a comet and not a star. I use a photometry program (Mira) because it is much more
precise than Astrometrica (which I use for astrometry) and in some cases, to be
more sure, through a friend I ask for measurements with IRAF.
Also sometimes for the object and the stars I create an
equindensity contour to see the shape.
Regards,
Roberto Haver
157 Frasso Sabino
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Roberto, all, ? You are correct, of course. Up until now, and in light of the MPC¡¯s requirements, I just haven¡¯t considered that a high enough priority to acquire the necessary software (other than Astrometrica, which, as you, I utilize for astrometry). If I do decide to pursue things along those lines in the future, I might consider getting those packages. ? I note that, concerning the object that precipitated this discussion (A11nyuL = C/2021 K5), the next set of images I took did definitely show it as cometary, and I reported it as such. I¡¯ve seen images taken by other observers (notably Taras Prystavski on May 28) that show its cometary nature rather well. ? And, while on this topic . . . ? We¡¯ve had discussions here and on another forum (i.e., Facebook) about the potential cometary activity I possibly imaged on (308607) 2005 WY3. There were a FWHM analysis reported on FB that at least was somewhat suggestive of a cometary nature, although as was the case with the various images I took of this object, none of this is anywhere near conclusive. (308607) is now just a little over two weeks away from perihelion passage, but unfortunately is too low for me to get with LCO (present elongation 43 degrees, and decreasing). Yes, this is a hint ¨C a plea ¨C for anyone with suitable equipment to try to verify, or conclusively dis-confirm, any possible cometary activity on this object before it gets too low for anyone to access. ? I¡¯ve also been imaging (6144) Kondojiro ¨C which is now less than a week away from perihelion ¨C on a semi-regular basis, my most recent images being from last night. Totally stellar on all images . . . For what it might be worth, the FWHM measurements by Astrometrica on last night¡¯s images are essentially identical to those of stars of similar brightness. ? ? Sincerely, Alan ? Of course the MPC on the dedicated page asks for the diameter and not the FWHM. But the FWHM is the only scientific tool to be sure that the recorded object is a comet and not a star. I use a photometry program (Mira) because it is much more precise than Astrometrica (which I use for astrometry) and in some cases, to be more sure, through a friend I ask for measurements with IRAF. Also sometimes for the object and the stars I create an equindensity contour to see the shape. Regards, Roberto Haver 157 Frasso Sabino
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