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Here is a rundown of variations I have recnetly found on certain A1G
cars that I have in my accumulation:

#2311 Variations

Early version (fuzzy lettering)[only differences between cars
listed, if not listed road number is same on both variations].

CAPY 100000
LD LMT 15700 (this is what my version has!)
LT WT 52300
CUFT 3761 (lowest lettering on right side of carside)
EXW 10 5
EW 9 5
IW 9 2
IH 10 1
Little fellow holding box in air is chubby and outline is thick

Late version (crisp lettering)

CAPY 140000
LD LMT 167000
LT WT 40300
CUFT 390 (highest dimensional data on right side of car)
EXW 10 3
EW 10 4
H 14 5
H 10 6
little fellow holding box is thin and outline is very thin

#2312 variations

early version (fuzzy lettering)

UCPX 30021

CAPY 140000
LD LMT 146800
LT WT 63200
BLT 5 63
EXW 16 3
EW 9 7
CUFT 3215

late version (crisp lettering)

UCPX 3002

CAPY 140000
LD LMT 152000
LT WT 61000
BLT 7 49
EXW 19 11
EW 8 10
CUFT [NOT SHOWN ON THIS VERSION OF CAR]

#2351 trailer variations

version one

Thick red border around ACME letters
FASTEFREIGHT around lower part of herald
DEPENDA-CALV-SERVI in red circle in herlad

version two

thin red border around ACME lettering
FESTFREIGHT around lower part of herald
DEPENDA-CALY-SERVI in red circle in herald

I have digital images of all these variations I will post some to
this group and will forward the close ups of the lettering to George
Irwin for the site (if he wants to use them for clarification).

Will post the pictures in the very near future (mere minutes).

Edward Bridges
Granger, TX

God, will this never end? :>)

On the early Roco cars, the truck pins had heads that were flat across and
had a fairly sharp rim on them (unlike some other manufacturers' cars that had
almost round headed pins).

Later on ('70s?) they had a dimple in the middle of the head. I am going to
check my cars further ,though, to see if there was intermixing in the later
cars. But, the early ones all had flat heads.

Doug

Rick,

Did your Minitrix stock car have a road number of either 80680 or 80689?
That's what the Greenberg guide shows for a Minitrix Santa Fe 40' wood stock car.
Does it have the same body style as the Atlas 2250 series of cattle cars (as
Atlas called these)?

Minitrix cars were made by Roco also, so they should be the same in basic
construction as Atlas cars made by Roco. It's just that the Atlas cars have
"Atlas Austria" on the bottom whereas Trix cars have "Trix Austria".

After Model Power began importing Minitrix they may have had different or
additional sources for cars but I don't really know. I do know that there were
different body styles released for the same basic type of car.

Strictly Atlas content: None of the others are as good as Atlas :>)

Doug

Carl Eisemann wrote, regarding Atlas car kits,

I think the -129 of the number was the price of the kit.

Carl Eisemann
Cumberland River & Eastern

Yup, you are correct sir! $1.29. A BIG savings over the price of RTR...$1.50
hehe

Actually, at my age back then, it did seem like quite a savings.

Doug

I have thought of yet another thing to look for on the Roco built A1G cars
(you guys sick of this yet)?

On cars that have corner stirrups on them, some of the stirrups may be
missing. In one case they may have been broken off. In another case, they may have
never been there to begin with due to incomplete molding.

The way to tell is that if they were broken off, there will be a pretty
obvious breaking point and the plastic color of the shell will show. If they were
never molded, there may be partial stubs where they're supposed to be or maybe
none at all. There won't be any clear lines from breaking and the shell paint
color will cover where the stirrups are supposed to be.

So, a car can be MIB or LNIB and have missing stirrups.

Doug

Rick wrote:

Hi, I got the flat with the Acme trailers on it but have been trying to read

what the printing says going around the Acme logo. I've been meaning to
look for the Athearn (HO) flat kit with the Acme trailers to see what that
small print actually says. If anyone should know that answer and/or can
decifer the printing, would you please tell me what it says.....
Thanks,
Rick

HeHe, this has kinda been duscussed here before. In the black circle, it's
supposed to say "ACME FASTFREIGHT" but some versions say "ACME FASTEFREIGHT"

I don't know what the heck it's supposed to say in the red circle but I'm
assuming "DEPENDABLE SERVICE" However, the one I have says "DEPENDA" at the top
of the circle and "CALY" or "CALV" and "SERVI" at the bottom.

Doug

Hi George,
I think the idea of adding some Atlas packaging would be great to the A1G site. Atlas did use variants during the first of the A1G run and this would be great info to know. This would work for anyone collecting cars MIB or close to it. Would also help when buying from swapmeets,E-Bay etc, and knowing you got the right insert with the proper car that goes with it. I bought a Santa Fe cattle car a while back ago that had a A1G sleeve for that style of car in the case. The problem I caught was the car wasn't even manufactured for Atlas. It was a Trix car. I liked it anyway and bought it but it made me wonder if the person selling it was trying to pass it off as something else. I bought that car with a couple others for around 6 dollars for all and don't feel that I lost out knowing it wasn't a true A1G car in the first place. I checked to the one's listed on your site to see if the car may of had a different under frame to the body but the car doesn't match to anything listed. It looks to be all Trix parts right down to the trucks. That particular car got boarded up on the inside and was put to work as a Santa Fe tool car with a work train I put together with a Kato Santa Fe SD45 and an old Santa Fe Mini Trix wrecking crane and boom car I ran acrossed. Since that cattle car wasn't A1G, I thought I would put it to good use. If that had been a A1G, it would of got a lot more respect. Rick From: George Irwin <gji@...>

Reply-To: a1g@...
To: a1g@...
Subject: Re: [a1g] Progress on my "accumulation"
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 06:53:10 -0400

At 12:28 AM 8/29/2003 +0000, Edward wrote:

A1G Locomotives

2186 MIB (complete with decal sheet intact)

Now that is a rare find! For those of you who don't know about this, some
A1G steamers came without a roadname. The decal sheet allowed you to add
one from several choices. I don't remember what they were; Edward, could
you post that list when you have the opportunity?

A1G freight equipment
2234 IB (no insert)[this car may not have had an insert, packaging
is odd for an Atlas car, but in Atlas box].

I have one of these too (Cotton Belt gondola) without the insert in the A1G
surplus and I remember having several others many years ago-- maybe even a
couple of decades by now-- before I sent the boxes and cars going their
seperate ways. (George, you did what?) If I recall correctly, this
packaging variation goes way back into A1G history. I think it must have
had some sort of insert at one time, even if it was just some foam packing;
otherwise the car bounces around mercilessly inside the box.

Perhaps I should add a small "packaging" section to the A1G site... does
anyone have any opinions on this? Is it a bit too far? In any event, add
it to the queue! Once the UMTRR process is done for September I really
need to get back to adding things to the site.

My girlfriend keeps ribbing me about becoming a "collector" with
this stuff. Not exactly a collector per se, I like to think of
myself as an accumulator. To each their own I guess. (I do not run
the stuff in my A1G accumulation). I merely want to preserve a
piece of the history of N Scale.

Accumulators are defined as those who have much more N Scale than can ever
fit on their layout at one time. No boxes, labels, inserts, or conditions
are required or implied! I think George Johnsen uses the term "gatherers"
as well; it might fit.

Have a great weekend, everyone!

Cheers,
Your list-owner

_________________________________________________________________
Help protect your PC: Get a free online virus scan at McAfee.com.

Hi, I got the flat with the Acme trailers on it but have been trying to read what the printing says going around the Acme logo. I've been meaning to look for the Athearn (HO) flat kit with the Acme trailers to see what that small print actually says. If anyone should know that answer and/or can decifer the printing, would you please tell me what it says.....
Thanks,
Rick

_________________________________________________________________
Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection.

Do both cars have "Atlas Austria" on the center beam? If so, then

it is almost certain that these are true variations (unless somebody
repainted one of the cars).

Both versions of both cars have Atlas Austria stamped on the
underside of the cars. I will snap some digital pictures of them
and upload them in the photo section sometime tomorrow. I will send
close ups of the lettering to George Irwin for possible use on his
site.

I will also snap shots of the ACME trailer which also has
differences (I have both versions).

I hope this will help those who have to have every variation to find
them.


Edward Bridges
Granger, TX

All this talk recently has stimulated yet another remembrance.

The earliest releases of the A1G cars had trucks that were a kind of grayish
black.

Tha cars I have that I bought in late 1967 and were packaged in the boxes
that had the clear plastic spacers (no blue cradle or paper insert) and the label
on the end of the box all had trucks that were the gray-black color. Later
(not THAT much later....1968) The trucks were molded in plastic that was really
black.

So, my 2303b arrived today and it has black wheels with the smaller
insulaters and black trucks. To me, this places the manufacture at sometime in 1968.

Doug

Hello,
I've been reading some of the discussion from the accumulators and thought I'd go below and look in some of my old boxes. I'd asked George about the 5" boxed cars earlier.

I've quite a few of the locos on Edwards list and found a 2101, MIB and a 2180 runner (RIB))
As far as the 5" boxes, I've got examples of 5101-129 Kit unbuilt, (UB), & 5101-129 RIB, 5102-129 UB, 5104-129 UB and 5104-129 RIB and 5272-129 RIB. Most boxes are in excellent condition and a few have notations on the box, Also found my first N Scale loco, 0-6-0 (may 71 purchase), but no box to go with it.

I think the -129 of the number was the price of the kit.

Carl Eisemann
Cumberland River & Eastern

Oops, sorry about that last post. It makes it appear that Edward wrote all of
it. Here it is again, hopefully more understandable.

Edward wrote:

This package I have for the Cotton Belt gon is a clear plastic Atlas
marked box with two yellow foam blocks to hold the car in place. If
there was a sticker on the end of the box, there is not any evidence
of it. I will post a picture of this car in its box when I take
some pictures of stuff this weekend.

While I have never seen this packaging with Atlas product, I do have a couple

of AHM cars made by Roco from the '70s that have the foam blocks so who
knows? I have also never seen Atlas cars without some kind of labeling on the
box
except for some of the transfer cabooses. It's always possible that somebody
sometime stuck this car into a different box than original.

Another thing I have done to determine some credibility as to the box is to
see if there is tape or tape residue on the cover and box bottom and to see
if
they line up from the cover to the bottom. If it appears that there was a

single piece of tape across the two, it is an indication that the top and
bottom
at least belong together. If there is no tape or residue, somebody must have,

somewhere along the line, removed it. This applies to the Roco boxes only, of

course.

Well, I received a package today that had a slight variation of 2311
in it. I have two of this car, but there is differences in them.
One of the cars has a CAPY of 140000, LD LMT of 167000 and LT WT of
40300. The lettering on this car is crisp. The second version of
this car I have has a CAPY of 100000, LD LMT of 15700 (this is what
the car side says!) and LT WT of 52300. Lettering on this car is
sort of fuzzy but clear enough to make out what it is. Have I
stumbed upon yet another variation that hasn't been explained?
Both versions of this car I have have the same road number NSRX 305
and the little guy holding a box is different on the two cars (light
striping on one bold on the other).

Do both cars have "Atlas Austria" on the center beam? If so, then it is
almost certain that these are true variations (unless somebody repainted one
of the
cars). Atlas did a re-release of this car later but the later version has red

printing on it also as opposed to the earlier version that just has blue and
white.

Doug

Edward wrote:

This package I have for the Cotton Belt gon is a clear plastic Atlas
marked box with two yellow foam blocks to hold the car in place. If
there was a sticker on the end of the box, there is not any evidence
of it. I will post a picture of this car in its box when I take
some pictures of stuff this weekend.

While I have never seen this packaging with Atlas product, I do have a couple
of AHM cars made by Roco from the '70s that have the foam blocks so who
knows? I have also never seen Atlas cars without some kind of labeling on the box
except for some of the transfer cabooses. It's always possible that somebody
sometime stuck this car into a different box than original.

Another thing I have done to determine some credibility as to the box is to
see if there is tape or tape residue on the cover and box bottom and to see if
they line up from the cover to the bottom. If it appears that there was a
single piece of tape across the two, it is an indication that the top and bottom
at least belong together. If there is no tape or residue, somebody must have,
somewhere along the line, removed it. This applies to the Roco boxes only, of
course.

Well, I received a package today that had a slight variation of 2311
in it. I have two of this car, but there is differences in them.
One of the cars has a CAPY of 140000, LD LMT of 167000 and LT WT of
40300. The lettering on this car is crisp. The second version of
this car I have has a CAPY of 100000, LD LMT of 15700 (this is what
the car side says!) and LT WT of 52300. Lettering on this car is
sort of fuzzy but clear enough to make out what it is. Have I
stumbed upon yet another variation that hasn't been explained?
Both versions of this car I have have the same road number NSRX 305
and the little guy holding a box is different on the two cars (light
striping on one bold on the other).

Do both cars have "Atlas Austria" on the center beam? If so, then it is
almost certain that these are true variations (unless somebody repainted one of the
cars). Atlas did a re-release of this car later but the later version has red
printing on it also as opposed to the earlier version that just has blue and
white.

Doug

I am starting to look a bit closer at the A1G cars I find at swap
meets nowdays, you never know what you will find anymore.

After making a post earlier, I noticed differences in the two
2312 Bakelite Plastics cars I have, outside of the hole in the roof
of one car. The differences are noticeable. One car is lettered
UCPX 30021, the other is lettered UCPX 3002. Car 30021 has a LD LMT
of 146800 while car 3002 has a LD LMT of 152000. Car 30021 has BLT
563 while 3002 has BLT 7-49. The lettering is much better on one
car than the other.

Will take pictures of these cars as well on Sunday when I have
access to a digital camera.

I have also found a few other cars with some differences in the
lettering. Will shoot them as well.

BTW...I snagged a 3111 MIB!!!!! Only three more to go!

Edward Bridges
A1G accumulator
Granger, TX

As far as the packaging variation, are you guys talking about the

ones that only had a couple of plastic "postioners" and the car
number and name on a sticker on the end of the box? If so, this was
the earliest style they used ca. 1967. A lot of times, the sticker
is missing (and probably the postioners too).

This package I have for the Cotton Belt gon is a clear plastic Atlas
marked box with two yellow foam blocks to hold the car in place. If
there was a sticker on the end of the box, there is not any evidence
of it. I will post a picture of this car in its box when I take
some pictures of stuff this weekend.

Well, I received a package today that had a slight variation of 2311
in it. I have two of this car, but there is differences in them.
One of the cars has a CAPY of 140000, LD LMT of 167000 and LT WT of
40300. The lettering on this car is crisp. The second version of
this car I have has a CAPY of 100000, LD LMT of 15700 (this is what
the car side says!) and LT WT of 52300. Lettering on this car is
sort of fuzzy but clear enough to make out what it is. Have I
stumbed upon yet another variation that hasn't been explained?
Both versions of this car I have have the same road number NSRX 305
and the little guy holding a box is different on the two cars (light
striping on one bold on the other).

I am starting to look a bit closer at the A1G cars I find at swap
meets nowdays, you never know what you will find anymore.

Will post pictures of this Jack Frost hopper car as time permits
this weekend. One car has a box, one doesn't.

Will point out more things as I notice them and will send scans to
the group as well as George Irwin for the site if needed.

Edward Bridges
A1G accumulator
Granger, TX

If I may chime in here, I believe there were four locomotives that were sold
with decal sheets:

2180 Light Mikado
2185 0-4-0 Steam loco and tender
2186 0-6-0 Saddle tank switcher
4069 Davenport switcher (this actually being a 2G loco)

As far as the packaging variation, are you guys talking about the ones that
only had a couple of plastic "postioners" and the car number and name on a
sticker on the end of the box? If so, this was the earliest style they used ca.
1967. A lot of times, the sticker is missing (and probably the postioners too).
I have several of these from my earliest days. If a car is truly from that
era, it should have wheels that are more bronze colored than black and the
insulators on the wheels should be smaller in diameter (actually hidden by the
journals). This is probably not a hard and fast thing though. It's just that I
remember that my earliest cars were this way and then Atlas began to change to
blacker wheels and a larger insulator after this in 1968.

George, did you see my little missive a while ago wrt packaging of the cars
in 5" boxes. I, for one would like to see a discussion on your site if you ever
get the time, of course.

Doug

At 12:28 AM 8/29/2003 +0000, Edward wrote:

A1G Locomotives

2186 MIB (complete with decal sheet intact)

Now that is a rare find! For those of you who don't know about this, some A1G steamers came without a roadname. The decal sheet allowed you to add one from several choices. I don't remember what they were; Edward, could you post that list when you have the opportunity?

A1G freight equipment
2234 IB (no insert)[this car may not have had an insert, packaging
is odd for an Atlas car, but in Atlas box].

I have one of these too (Cotton Belt gondola) without the insert in the A1G surplus and I remember having several others many years ago-- maybe even a couple of decades by now-- before I sent the boxes and cars going their seperate ways. (George, you did what?) If I recall correctly, this packaging variation goes way back into A1G history. I think it must have had some sort of insert at one time, even if it was just some foam packing; otherwise the car bounces around mercilessly inside the box.

Perhaps I should add a small "packaging" section to the A1G site... does anyone have any opinions on this? Is it a bit too far? In any event, add it to the queue! Once the UMTRR process is done for September I really need to get back to adding things to the site.

My girlfriend keeps ribbing me about becoming a "collector" with
this stuff. Not exactly a collector per se, I like to think of
myself as an accumulator. To each their own I guess. (I do not run
the stuff in my A1G accumulation). I merely want to preserve a
piece of the history of N Scale.

Accumulators are defined as those who have much more N Scale than can ever fit on their layout at one time. No boxes, labels, inserts, or conditions are required or implied! I think George Johnsen uses the term "gatherers" as well; it might fit.

Have a great weekend, everyone!

Cheers,
Your list-owner

Things are moving right along with my accumulation of A1G
equipment. I thought I would post a new listing of my current
accumulation (locomotives, freight equipment and passenger
equipment). The majority of what I have is in original boxes (as
noted). All of this equipment is in very good to perfect unused
condition. If you have parts that could help the condition of my
accumulation, email me off list. I would be willing to purchase
parts.

A1G locomotives

2102 MIB
2105 MIB
2111 MIB
2112 IB (tender shell in bad shape)
2116 MIB (never run)
2117 IB (step missing on tender)
2118 IB (tender shell in very bad shape)
2121 MIB
2122 MIB
2123 MIB
2124 MIB
2125 IB (insert was changed from SP to SF with ink pen)
2131 MIB
2132 MIB
2154 MIB
2173 MIB
2185 MIB (complete with decal sheet intact)
2186 MIB (complete with decal sheet intact)


A1G freight equipment

2202 MIB
2204 IB (no insert)
2205 IB (no insert)
2206 MIB
2221 MIB
2231 MIB
2234 IB (no insert)[this car may not have had an insert, packaging
is odd for an Atlas car, but in Atlas box].
2242 MIB
2244 MIB
2245 IB (two steps missing on car)
2251 MIB
2252 MIB
2253b MIB
2254 IB (three steps missing on car)
2261 no box (excellent shape)
2262 no box (excellent shape)
2273 MIB
2274 no box (good shape)
2282a MIB
2282b MIB
2286 IB (one step missing on car)
2287a MIB
2287b no box (two steps missing on car)
2288a MIB
2292b no box (excellent shape)
2293 MIB
2296 MIB
2297 MIB
2301b MIB
2302a MIB
2303a IB (one step missing on car)
2303b MIB
2304 MIB
2311 MIB
2312 MIB
2313 no box (excellent shape)
2314 no box (excellent shape)
2321 MIB
2322 MIB
2323b MIB
2331 MIB
2332 IB (no insert)
2341 MIB
2342 MIB
2346 MIB
2347 MIB
2348 MIB
2351 MIB
2352 MIB
2362 MIB
2363 MIB
2364 no box (excellent shape)
2365 MIB
2366 MIB
2368 no box (excellent shape)
2374 MIB
2383 MIB
2393 MIB
2394 no box (excellent shape)
2397 no box (excellent shape)
2398 no box (excellent shape)
2402 MIB
2406 no box (excellent shape)
2411 MIB
2416 MIB
2417 no box (one step missing on car)
2418 MIB
2422 MIB
2424 no box (all steps missing on car)
2431 MIB
2433 MIB
2436 no box (no roof details on car)
2437 MIB
3002 IB (no insert)
3003 MIB
3004 MIB
3022 MIB
3024 no box (excellent shape)
3031 no box (excellent shape)
3032 MIB
3104 MIB
3111 MIB
3121 MIB

A1G passenger equipment

2601 MIB
2602 (have complete box in good shape, but no car!)
2604 MIB
2621 MIB
2631 MIB
2632 MIB
2634 MIB
2641 MIB
2642 MIB
2644 MIB
2651 IB (no insert, wrong color roof)
2654 MIB
2672 MIB

All of this stuff was accumulated in the past couple of months from
various sources. I do have some extra cars (mostly without boxes),
which I will post for sale or trade here once I finally get all the
stuff I have coming in hand. (This list does NOT include cars in
transit).

I am also looking for cars I currently do not have listed here.
Willing to pay fair price for boxed equipment or equipment in
excellent shape without boxes (I can find boxes for them).

My girlfriend keeps ribbing me about becoming a "collector" with
this stuff. Not exactly a collector per se, I like to think of
myself as an accumulator. To each their own I guess. (I do not run
the stuff in my A1G accumulation). I merely want to preserve a
piece of the history of N Scale.

Edward Bridges
AustNtrak member: Austin, TX
Granger, TX

I stayed out of the bidding on that car as well. I only need one,
which I already won. If I come across more at swap meets, I will
pick them up for resale here to the members who need them.

Just merely helping those who are looking for the car.

Edward Bridges
Granger, TX

Interesting that after being apparently unseen (at least to your
humble list-owner), there seem to be 2303b variations coming out of
the woodwork. As you may know, I picked up a copy on that Internet
Auction Community last week and it's been added to the A1G
Accumulation. (Thanks to those who didn't "compete" for it.) And a
second one sold last night as well. Counting the one Edward acquired
that's three in the last month or so... after I hadn't seen any for
who knows how long.


Or is it that I simply wasn't looking... ?!?

--Your list-owner