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When the "older" models were made , there was always the possibility of parts to repair them ? In our brave new world ? Almost never . I don't believe he newer Plastic locos are made with an allowance for parts ? If they are , stand by for the price Pilgrims ! It does seem pitiful that you would have to "fix" it yourself ? Ah well . Henry H.

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Some good points here.? I wasn¡¯t trying focus on Athearn, specifically, but on the use of plastic gears.? I like Athearn¡¯s customer policies.? For instance, I had a Challenger that had been in its box since 2005, when I took it out the sound did not work.? I wrote them, they told me to send it, the DCC company is still in business, they repaired it at no cost.? They have done similarly for me, in the past.

I consider their response reasonable, and prudent.? After all the model is twelve years old, the builder is no longer around (I didn¡¯t know this).? This is a business, in difficult times.

Bachmann had a lifetime warranty, that I thought was insanely generous.? Send in a junker, you just purchased at a show, and get a new DCC Northern.? Send in your 2-8-2/2-8-0 standard line, with that fabulous pancake motor, and get a Spectrum Mike.? Thousands must have taken advantage of this policy, fairly or not.? Bachmann has given up this warranty, I note that their new 2-4-4-2 ON30 has a one year warranty.

?

The reason that our old die cast producers ¡®always had parts¡¯, was that modelers were willing to pay for, and able to repair, AND their basic parts never changed.

I do recall a response for the continued use of plastic gears --- noise.? ?If the noise is so intrusive, then we have an unsolvable situation, especially concerning DCC sound units.? We have become enamored with how ¡°smooth and QUIET¡± our locos operate.? As though any honkin 2-8-0, FEF, or diesel whispered down the track--(only coasting on a decline).

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Anyway, we have NWSL and others that have stepped into the breach to supply obsolete, or improved parts.

Denis

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Some good points here. I wasn't trying focus on Athearn, specifically, but
on the use of plastic gears. I like Athearn's customer policies. For
instance, I had a Challenger that had been in its box since 2005, when I
took it out the sound did not work. I wrote them, they told me to send it,
the DCC company is still in business, they repaired it at no cost. They
have done similarly for me, in the past.

I consider their response reasonable, and prudent. After all the model is
twelve years old, the builder is no longer around (I didn't know this).
This is a business, in difficult times.

Bachmann had a lifetime warranty, that I thought was insanely generous.
Send in a junker, you just purchased at a show, and get a new DCC Northern.
Send in your 2-8-2/2-8-0 standard line, with that fabulous pancake motor,
and get a Spectrum Mike. Thousands must have taken advantage of this
policy, fairly or not. Bachmann has given up this warranty, I note that
their new 2-4-4-2 ON30 has a one year warranty.



The reason that our old die cast producers 'always had parts', was that
modelers were willing to pay for, and able to repair, AND their basic parts
never changed.

I do recall a response for the continued use of plastic gears --- noise.
If the noise is so intrusive, then we have an unsolvable situation,
especially concerning DCC sound units. We have become enamored with how
"smooth and QUIET" our locos operate. As though any honkin 2-8-0, FEF, or
diesel whispered down the track--(only coasting on a decline).



Anyway, we have NWSL and others that have stepped into the breach to supply
obsolete, or improved parts.

Denis

Dennis, I agree with you to appoint except the engine was purchased new from a hobby store and broke within two weeks from the purchase. How was I to know that it was out of warranty. Most manufactures cover items within 30 days of purchase.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 12, 2013, at 5:27 PM, "Denis Long" <avanti78@...> wrote:

Some good points here. I wasn?€?t trying focus on Athearn, specifically, but on the use of plastic gears. I like Athearn?€?s customer policies. For instance, I had a Challenger that had been in its box since 2005, when I took it out the sound did not work. I wrote them, they told me to send it, the DCC company is still in business, they repaired it at no cost. They have done similarly for me, in the past.

I consider their response reasonable, and prudent. After all the model is twelve years old, the builder is no longer around (I didn?€?t know this). This is a business, in difficult times.

Bachmann had a lifetime warranty, that I thought was insanely generous. Send in a junker, you just purchased at a show, and get a new DCC Northern. Send in your 2-8-2/2-8-0 standard line, with that fabulous pancake motor, and get a Spectrum Mike. Thousands must have taken advantage of this policy, fairly or not. Bachmann has given up this warranty, I note that their new 2-4-4-2 ON30 has a one year warranty.



The reason that our old die cast producers ?€?always had parts?€?, was that modelers were willing to pay for, and able to repair, AND their basic parts never changed.

I do recall a response for the continued use of plastic gears --- noise. If the noise is so intrusive, then we have an unsolvable situation, especially concerning DCC sound units. We have become enamored with how ?€?smooth and QUIET?€? our locos operate. As though any honkin 2-8-0, FEF, or diesel whispered down the track--(only coasting on a decline).



Anyway, we have NWSL and others that have stepped into the breach to supply obsolete, or improved parts.

Denis

Hang on. You purchased a well-out-of-production unit, new at a hobby shop, expecting a 30-day warranty and it broke in half that time?
Warranties will be 30, 90, one year, quasi-lifetime, but the question remains:
Why did the hobby shop sell you a NOS engine with no warranty remaining?
Seems without full disclosure, they should be liable and responsible for returning your money.
Dave

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., pgkdave@ wrote:

Dennis, I agree with you to appoint except the engine was purchased new from a hobby store and broke within two weeks from the purchase. How was I to know that it was out of warranty. Most manufactures cover items within 30 days of purchase.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 12, 2013, at 5:27 PM, "Denis Long" <avanti78@> wrote:

Some good points here. I wasn?€?t trying focus on Athearn, specifically, but on the use of plastic gears. I like Athearn?€?s customer policies. For instance, I had a Challenger that had been in its box since 2005, when I took it out the sound did not work. I wrote them, they told me to send it, the DCC company is still in business, they repaired it at no cost. They have done similarly for me, in the past.

I consider their response reasonable, and prudent. After all the model is twelve years old, the builder is no longer around (I didn?€?t know this). This is a business, in difficult times.

Bachmann had a lifetime warranty, that I thought was insanely generous. Send in a junker, you just purchased at a show, and get a new DCC Northern. Send in your 2-8-2/2-8-0 standard line, with that fabulous pancake motor, and get a Spectrum Mike. Thousands must have taken advantage of this policy, fairly or not. Bachmann has given up this warranty, I note that their new 2-4-4-2 ON30 has a one year warranty.



The reason that our old die cast producers ?€?always had parts?€?, was that modelers were willing to pay for, and able to repair, AND their basic parts never changed.

I do recall a response for the continued use of plastic gears --- noise. If the noise is so intrusive, then we have an unsolvable situation, especially concerning DCC sound units. We have become enamored with how ?€?smooth and QUIET?€? our locos operate. As though any honkin 2-8-0, FEF, or diesel whispered down the track--(only coasting on a decline).



Anyway, we have NWSL and others that have stepped into the breach to supply obsolete, or improved parts.

Denis

He, group:
Years ago, in the late 1950's I used to have a Boston Gear Catalog that listed thousands of small gears. They were in different metals and of course, in many different sizes. I think they were called "Pinion Gears". My recollection is, they were made in long rods and cut off, like cutting cookies off a roll of dough. They were very precise, and I think they were reasonably priced. i have no idea if the company is still in business. I bet Mike Baur will recall this company. Maybe he can shed some light on them. If they are still around, the hardest part would be specifying out what we need.

It just can't be that there are no other sources for tiny gears, other then the cheep plastic gears from China. (The Chinese do make good Egg Rolls, though)

What about Clock Repair suppliers?
There is a guy here in Columbia who has a clock repair shop. I have used his repair service, maybe I'll slip by there and see if he can steer me toward a gear supplier.

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO
On May 12, 2013, at 10:46 PM, Nelson wrote:

I considered taking advantage of Bachmann's return policy a number of times, but I inevitably ended up investing enough repair work in the locos I had that I didn't want to part with them. I guess I missed the boat on that one. At least they seem to be stepping up to help the owners of some of their hobbled Spectrum steam.

As for gear noise, I hardly see that as an argument since we're inevitably talking about just the axle gear, not the whole gear train. Making axle gears from brass, especially if they are of a small enough diameter to be almost pinion sized should be industry standard. Either that, or make the gears larger diameter (like Mantua, e.g.) so they have enough material strength to prevent splitting, even over a knurled axle.

It's interesting that aside from early P2K, the cracking problems seem to be occurring mostly on steam locos. You'd think it would be the other way around, since larger drive wheels gives you the opportunity to use more substantial gears, as I mentioned. Metal axle gears on diesels would be more difficult for manufacturers anyway, since the modern Athearn-style design they've all adopted uses a split frame truck with the gears serving as insulators.

Nelson

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Denis Long" <avanti78@...> wrote:

Some good points here. I wasn't trying focus on Athearn, specifically, but
on the use of plastic gears. I like Athearn's customer policies. For
instance, I had a Challenger that had been in its box since 2005, when I
took it out the sound did not work. I wrote them, they told me to send it,
the DCC company is still in business, they repaired it at no cost. They
have done similarly for me, in the past.

I consider their response reasonable, and prudent. After all the model is
twelve years old, the builder is no longer around (I didn't know this).
This is a business, in difficult times.

Bachmann had a lifetime warranty, that I thought was insanely generous.
Send in a junker, you just purchased at a show, and get a new DCC Northern.
Send in your 2-8-2/2-8-0 standard line, with that fabulous pancake motor,
and get a Spectrum Mike. Thousands must have taken advantage of this
policy, fairly or not. Bachmann has given up this warranty, I note that
their new 2-4-4-2 ON30 has a one year warranty.



The reason that our old die cast producers 'always had parts', was that
modelers were willing to pay for, and able to repair, AND their basic parts
never changed.

I do recall a response for the continued use of plastic gears --- noise.
If the noise is so intrusive, then we have an unsolvable situation,
especially concerning DCC sound units. We have become enamored with how
"smooth and QUIET" our locos operate. As though any honkin 2-8-0, FEF, or
diesel whispered down the track--(only coasting on a decline).



Anyway, we have NWSL and others that have stepped into the breach to supply
obsolete, or improved parts.

Denis

I just looked. I'm likely a different Mike, but here goes.....

Its called 'drawn pinion wire' and can be found on page 21 of their catalog



stocked in four-foot lengths.

You'll have a challenge to drill the stock, you'll need a lathe to center drill and cut-off the stock.

May I suggest for anyone that is thinking of experimenting with gears, you buy the very cheap Chinese gears and prototype with those, then move to the Didel miniature gears which are precise and quite moderately priced. Use them like you see the Athearn power trucks gears in their classic power truck design with the gears running between two plates.

I seriously doubt you will be able to have direct replacements for gears like the ones in the Bachmann engines. BUT, if you want to enjoy trying out custom drives with pocket-money, go for these gears on eBay..... available from several folks on there......

these are recent buys of mine and now are closed listings

<>

item # 170887805971

'10pcs x Plastic Worm Plastic Gear Aperture 2mm Size: 6*6mm DIY Model accessories'.. $2.75

<>

item # 150977314960

'New 50 styles Plastic Gears All The Module 0.5 Robot Parts for DIY Necessary'.. $3.99

I bought several packs with an eye to tinkering with tiny rail speeders and very small motors.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA



On May 12, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Mike Van Hove <mvanhove@...> wrote:

He, group:
Years ago, in the late 1950's I used to have a Boston Gear Catalog that listed thousands of small gears. They were in different metals and of course, in many different sizes. I think they were called "Pinion Gears". My recollection is, they were made in long rods and cut off, like cutting cookies off a roll of dough. They were very precise, and I think they were reasonably priced. i have no idea if the company is still in business. I bet Mike Baur will recall this company. Maybe he can shed some light on them. If they are still around, the hardest part would be specifying out what we need.

It just can't be that there are no other sources for tiny gears, other then the cheep plastic gears from China. (The Chinese do make good Egg Rolls, though)

What about Clock Repair suppliers?
There is a guy here in Columbia who has a clock repair shop. I have used his repair service, maybe I'll slip by there and see if he can steer me toward a gear supplier.

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO
On May 12, 2013, at 10:46 PM, Nelson wrote:

I considered taking advantage of Bachmann's return policy a number of times, but I inevitably ended up investing enough repair work in the locos I had that I didn't want to part with them. I guess I missed the boat on that one. At least they seem to be stepping up to help the owners of some of their hobbled Spectrum steam.

As for gear noise, I hardly see that as an argument since we're inevitably talking about just the axle gear, not the whole gear train. Making axle gears from brass, especially if they are of a small enough diameter to be almost pinion sized should be industry standard. Either that, or make the gears larger diameter (like Mantua, e.g.) so they have enough material strength to prevent splitting, even over a knurled axle.

It's interesting that aside from early P2K, the cracking problems seem to be occurring mostly on steam locos. You'd think it would be the other way around, since larger drive wheels gives you the opportunity to use more substantial gears, as I mentioned. Metal axle gears on diesels would be more difficult for manufacturers anyway, since the modern Athearn-style design they've all adopted uses a split frame truck with the gears serving as insulators.

Nelson

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Denis Long" <avanti78@...> wrote:

Some good points here. I wasn't trying focus on Athearn, specifically, but
on the use of plastic gears. I like Athearn's customer policies. For
instance, I had a Challenger that had been in its box since 2005, when I
took it out the sound did not work. I wrote them, they told me to send it,
the DCC company is still in business, they repaired it at no cost. They
have done similarly for me, in the past.

I consider their response reasonable, and prudent. After all the model is
twelve years old, the builder is no longer around (I didn't know this).
This is a business, in difficult times.

Bachmann had a lifetime warranty, that I thought was insanely generous.
Send in a junker, you just purchased at a show, and get a new DCC Northern.
Send in your 2-8-2/2-8-0 standard line, with that fabulous pancake motor,
and get a Spectrum Mike. Thousands must have taken advantage of this
policy, fairly or not. Bachmann has given up this warranty, I note that
their new 2-4-4-2 ON30 has a one year warranty.



The reason that our old die cast producers 'always had parts', was that
modelers were willing to pay for, and able to repair, AND their basic parts
never changed.

I do recall a response for the continued use of plastic gears --- noise.
If the noise is so intrusive, then we have an unsolvable situation,
especially concerning DCC sound units. We have become enamored with how
"smooth and QUIET" our locos operate. As though any honkin 2-8-0, FEF, or
diesel whispered down the track--(only coasting on a decline).



Anyway, we have NWSL and others that have stepped into the breach to supply
obsolete, or improved parts.

Denis

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

He, group:
Years ago, in the late 1950's I used to have a Boston Gear Catalog that listed thousands of small gears. They were in different metals and of course, in many different sizes. I think they were called "Pinion Gears". My recollection is, they were made in long rods and cut off, like cutting cookies off a roll of dough. They were very precise, and I think they were reasonably priced. i have no idea if the company is still in business. I bet Mike Baur will recall this company. Maybe he can shed some light on them. If they are still around, the hardest part would be specifying out what we need.

It just can't be that there are no other sources for tiny gears, other then the cheep plastic gears from China. (The Chinese do make good Egg Rolls, though)

What about Clock Repair suppliers?
There is a guy here in Columbia who has a clock repair shop. I have used his repair service, maybe I'll slip by there and see if he can steer me toward a gear supplier.

Mr Bauers:

You are the right Mike, I just couldn't remember how to spell your name. Shame on me. LOL

I was pretty sure after the postings I've seen from you, that you are the one who would know. And, I was right about that, I just can't spell. VBG

Thanks for the reply.

My guy at the Clock Shop forgot to bring the box of gears, today, but he will call me when he does remember.

Be interesting to see what he has.

I've mentioned before, my dad bought a WWII Surplus Norden Bomb Sight. It was absolutely packed full of small spur and bevel gears. They mostly ran on 1/8" dia. shafting.

In fact, everything in there was based on the good old inch. Lovely stuff. I still have couple of big coffee cans full of gears, shafting, bearings and other goodies. Maybe there will be something of use in there.

Mike Van Hove
Columbia, MO