I don't recall if I posted this request before, but here goes:? I'm looking for a source of 1 millimeter valve gear screws.? PFM once stocked them many moons ago.? I have just a few and need some more for a couple of pending projects.? I've looked at most of the obvious small hardware sites on the net.? I can fine regular 1 mm screws, but not the ones with the shoulder.? IMHO they are much nicer to work with than rivets.? Any help out there?
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Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
Pulleys work in parallel lines...straight through.
They aren't happy with 90 degree turns. Square cut bands and four sharp corners that will try to ride up. You can't use a pulley on the motor shaft. Because....it is too large a diameter, even the smallest you can find.
Then you're going to have to move the nose on the motor up high enough to get the band/belt to have some room for the 90 degree turn. With the nose up you will still have to mill out the underside of the boiler.
I remember one specific Lionel H0 diseasemal, where there was a belt and pulley on each end, parallel (sort of) to allow truck rotation...lower pulley on worm shaft in truck. Couldn't keep belts on the pulley. Sitting in a junk box now.
-----Original Message-----
From: "rh@... [yardbirdtrains]"
Sent: Feb 19, 2018 9:30 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
Thanks for all your replies. They are exactly what I was hoping for. This is an experimental project so an and all inputs are very welcome. My feeling is that if I can find the right pulleys and belt (not too loose and not too tight) this'll work very well. I already have a long shafted Sagami motor that should provide the correct amount of power. Now I am searching for the pulleys. The motor has a 1.5mm diameter shaft. Any recommendations?
Richard in Vermont
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Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
Just noticed my goof in the last paragraph. It's not aSalami motor, it's a Sagami motor. My spell check did that because it thinks the word should be salami. Richard in Vermont
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Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
This is, once again, something I've thought about but not actually experimented with for lack of a layout so bear that in mind... I have a few Varney spring drive F3s and I did find some O rings at a plumbing supply store that fit and were quiet. Can't say how durable they'd be. I love that you can change the gear ratio on those Varneys by simply moving the belt to another slot and there's no question they are quieter than the later gear driven locos. So I also have a couple of Varney NW2s and I found myself wishing they also had a pulley system. The solution I thought about (but haven't tried yet) would be as follows: Two ways to make your own pulleys: 1.) Take existing wheel sets and pull them off their axles and push them onto a drive shaft with the flanges facing towards each other and glue them together. You could make varying ratio pulleys out of 33",36", 40", etc., wheel sizes. 2.) You could press together any size drivers and axle gears.. even 80" steam drivers if you'd like.. to make a toothed pulley. The larger diameter of the drive wheel on each side of the axle gear holds the belt in place. 70s Tyco diesels have the axle gear molded with the plastic drive wheel as one piece. Press two of those together.?
Jeff
jppellas@...
-----Original Message----- From: rh@... [yardbirdtrains] To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Tue, Feb 20, 2018 01:47 AM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
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Thanks for all your replies, that is exactly what I was hoping for. This is an experimental project so any and all inputs are very welcome. I have to make a correction before going any further. The locomotive I¡¯m working on is not a Mantua 0-4-0 but rather a John English 0-4-0 which is quite similar in construction. I have several Mantua 0-4-0¡¯s that I have been working on, mainly to try to eliminate the noisy gear problem. Someone mentioned a NWSL gear box and I have successfully done that previously but it usually requires milling out some of the boiler metal and I lack the machining ability to do that not to mention the extra expense involved, but those little gear boxes are an excellent way to eliminate gear growling.?
My problem now is to find the correct pulleys and belt combination. I already have a Salami can motor with a long 1.5mm diameter shaft. I have ordered an assortment of plastic pulleys from China that may give me what I want but unfortunately they don¡¯t give much info as to what is in the assortment so this is a gamble. Some nice precision brass pulleys would be nice to find. Any suggestions? Richard in Vermont
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Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
Thanks for all your replies, that is exactly what I was hoping for. This is an experimental project so any and all inputs are very welcome. I have to make a correction before going any further. The locomotive I¡¯m working on is not a Mantua 0-4-0 but rather a John English 0-4-0 which is quite similar in construction. I have several Mantua 0-4-0¡¯s that I have been working on, mainly to try to eliminate the noisy gear problem. Someone mentioned a NWSL gear box and I have successfully done that previously but it usually requires milling out some of the boiler metal and I lack the machining ability to do that not to mention the extra expense involved, but those little gear boxes are an excellent way to eliminate gear growling.?
My problem now is to find the correct pulleys and belt combination. I already have a Salami can motor with a long 1.5mm diameter shaft. I have ordered an assortment of plastic pulleys from China that may give me what I want but unfortunately they don¡¯t give much info as to what is in the assortment so this is a gamble. Some nice precision brass pulleys would be nice to find. Any suggestions? Richard in Vermont
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Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
Thanks for all your replies. They are exactly what I was hoping for. This is an experimental project so an and all inputs are very welcome. My feeling is that if I can find the right pulleys and belt (not too loose and not too tight) this'll work very well. I already have a long shafted Sagami motor that should provide the correct amount of power. Now I am searching for the pulleys. The motor has a 1.5mm diameter shaft. Any recommendations? Richard in Vermont
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Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
I would think spring belts would suffer the same defects as the rubber band drives.? Stored energy on acceleration and uncontrolled release on deceleration.? Chuck Peck?
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:41 PM, Dave woebegone@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
?
Spring belt might be better than rubber bands.
The issue will be the belt climbing in a 90 degree drive. Springs work somewhat better due to round cross section.
But:
You have zero gear reduction. Think Athearn Hustler, with wheels much smaller and a motor shaft..less than 1/8" and a BIG axle... and they still set land speed records.
You will need to get the driver off, gear off, find an old Athearn axle, drill and fit and attach the Athearn drum.....and hope the armature is long enough to keep the belt from falling off the end.
Me?
I'd do a NWSL gearbox.
-----Original Message-----
From: "rh@... [yardbirdtrains]"
Sent: Feb 19, 2018 6:26 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
Similar to the early locos that Athearn powered with rubber bands many years ago, I am going to try and re-power an old Mantua 0-4-0 with a pulley and belt, the advantage being quiet operation. So I'm wondering if anyone on here ever tried this approach.
Richard in Vermont
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Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
Spring belt might be better than rubber bands.
The issue will be the belt climbing in a 90 degree drive. Springs work somewhat better due to round cross section.
But:
You have zero gear reduction. Think Athearn Hustler, with wheels much smaller and a motor shaft..less than 1/8" and a BIG axle... and they still set land speed records.
You will need to get the driver off, gear off, find an old Athearn axle, drill and fit and attach the Athearn drum.....and hope the armature is long enough to keep the belt from falling off the end.
Me?
I'd do a NWSL gearbox.
-----Original Message-----
From: "rh@... [yardbirdtrains]"
Sent: Feb 19, 2018 6:26 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
Similar to the early locos that Athearn powered with rubber bands many years ago, I am going to try and re-power an old Mantua 0-4-0 with a pulley and belt, the advantage being quiet operation. So I'm wondering if anyone on here ever tried this approach.
Richard in Vermont
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Re: Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
I was always disappointed by the jerkiness of the Athearn rubber band drives.? Possibly some modern O-rings may do better. I would look at toothed belts if it were not for the right angle problem.? Getting rid of the noise with new properly fitted worm and gear might be a satisfactory solution as well.? Chuck Peck
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:26 PM, rh@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
?
Similar to the early locos that Athearn powered with rubber bands many years ago, I am going to try and re-power an old Mantua 0-4-0 with a pulley and belt, the advantage being quiet operation. So I'm wondering if anyone on here ever tried this approach. Richard in Vermont
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Pulleys and Belts instead of gears
Similar to the early locos that Athearn powered with rubber bands many years ago, I am going to try and re-power an old Mantua 0-4-0 with a pulley and belt, the advantage being quiet operation. So I'm wondering if anyone on here ever tried this approach. Richard in Vermont
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?As if there aren't enough things going on ??b I'm trying to find a decent photo of a n antenna system on an M1a long distance tender . small doggy house and buckeye trucks ?? Many , many differences . Looked at a BLH model , got closer ? Looked like insulators / standoffs on the Dog house ? 2 Of them ? Long run down the tender back ? Am I getting close ??? ? Henry H.
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Thanks Jeff !! Wow .Many differences .? ?Henry H.
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Cary and Late Bowser PRR I1s Boilers
Hello list,
I don't have a Cary M1 boiler to compare with my Bowser M1, but I do have a Cary I1s boiler that I could compare with my Bowser I1sa 2-10-0.??
My Bowser I1sa has the late production (after 1995) larger boiler.
I haven't had time to compare the boilers using a scale rule.? The Cary cab might be a little shorter than the Bowser cab, the Cary smokebox may be a bit shorter than the Bowser smokebox, and the Cary firebox has a less prominent taper when viewed from the top compared to the late Bowser I1s boiler.? Both look quite nice, and both are compatible with the Bowser chassis I have available (older and newer versions of the die cast frame).??
I don't have a brass I1sa chassis to test fit....have any of you tried fitting the Cary boiler to the fabricated and soldered brass frame that Bowser used during the 1980s???
I was able to get a later once piece cast frame and larger Bowser cylinders to go with the partially built model I acquired along with the Cary boiler.? Unlike my Bowser/Cary N1s and Bowser M1, I have not yet gotten the Bowser/Cary I1s running yet.? ?
I am planning on completing my Cary-boilered I1sa so it represents one of the Altoona-built I1s engines as opposed to the later and more common Baldwin-build I1s engines with Worthington feedwater heaters.??
Doug Kisala
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Guys, I am no rivet counter. I just think the history of these models and how they evolved is interesting. ?As to the Cary I1, I also have two different Cary i1 boilers. The older boiler is maybe very slightly larger. The sand box on the older boiler is also slightly askew. The original that they used to make the molds must have had that defect (if you want to call it that). The later boiler is more refined and the sand dome is completely even. I know there were two generations of USRA light boilers as well. Don't know about any of the other boilers. The Cary boilers are definitely bigger than the final Bowser boiler which, itself, is bigger than the Penn Line boiler.
Jeff
jppellas@...
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-----Original Message----- From: huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Sat, Feb 17, 2018 12:38 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Cary vs Bowser M1
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Jeff ! I did a side by side comparison of the brass boilered I1 and it's brother ? The Brass one is a bigger diameter across , the sand domes are slightly differentas are the turret cover casting > Wife has been sick? for a while now , I'll get those pics on here sooner I hope .? Henry
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Also keep in mind that some model drawings in the various magazines weren't exact either and were used by manufacturers to produce models.
Roger Huber Deer Creek Locomotive Works
On Saturday, February 17, 2018, 11:43:13 AM CST, Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [yardbirdtrains] wrote:
?
Gents, please keep in mind that many models have been designed from RR drawing or even from diagrams. As a result, the model boiler was based on the actual diameter of the boiler.? This did not include the additional diameter of the lagging and jacket.? Then when one encounters a model based on actual measurements there? can be a significant difference in apparent boiler diameter.? Chuck Peck
On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 12:24 PM, huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
?
Jeff ! I did a side by side comparison of the brass boilered I1 and it's brother ? The Brass one is a bigger diameter across , the sand domes are slightly differentas are the turret cover casting > Wife has been sick? for a while now , I'll get those pics on here sooner I hope .? Henry
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Gents, please keep in mind that many models have been designed from RR drawing or even from diagrams. As a result, the model boiler was based on the actual diameter of the boiler.? This did not include the additional diameter of the lagging and jacket.? Then when one encounters a model based on actual measurements there? can be a significant difference in apparent boiler diameter.? Chuck Peck
On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 12:24 PM, huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
?
Jeff ! I did a side by side comparison of the brass boilered I1 and it's brother ? The Brass one is a bigger diameter across , the sand domes are slightly differentas are the turret cover casting > Wife has been sick? for a while now , I'll get those pics on here sooner I hope .? Henry
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Jeff ! I did a side by side comparison of the brass boilered I1 and it's brother ? The Brass one is a bigger diameter across , the sand domes are slightly differentas are the turret cover casting > Wife has been sick? for a while now , I'll get those pics on here sooner I hope .? Henry
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I have ordered 6 of those motors, thank you. I will look into the Sagami motor later. \\
Mush Appreciated.
Nathan Rich
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 12:56 PM, greenbrier614@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
P.S. As far as the conversion, it was literally a drop-in fit. It screwed right to the mount with two metric washer head screws I salvaged from some piece of electronics. The shaft is just silicone fuel line tubing with 2mm shaft inside to fill the space between the motor and worm shaft (The one in the pic is too short and was just for testing).?
Because the gearbox input shaft is just a stub I put a piece of heat shrink tubing over it so the silicone tubing would have something to grab. Remove the shaft before heating the tubing, obviously.
Nelson?
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P.S. As far as the conversion, it was literally a drop-in fit. It screwed right to the mount with two metric washer head screws I salvaged from some piece of electronics. The shaft is just silicone fuel line tubing with 2mm shaft inside to fill the space between the motor and worm shaft (The one in the pic is too short and was just for testing).?
Because the gearbox input shaft is just a stub I put a piece of heat shrink tubing over it so the silicone tubing would have something to grab. Remove the shaft before heating the tubing, obviously.
Nelson?
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Nathan,
Fortunately I kept the paperwork with the loco. It was a NWSL 2027 Sagami, so that should help you with an equivalent. It was rated at 9100 RPM at 12V, which is a bit speedy in these if memory serves.
I've actually been finding really good motors from China on eBay, particularly 6 pole motors which have low RPM and ridiculous torque for their size. A guy on another group who repowers brass professionally is recommending this Mabuchi:
It's definitely worth a shot for that price.
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Jeff Pellas
Charles Peck